HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I hate this place at time...

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:20 AM

I hate this place at times like this.

Is it really so hard to just be critical of the act and supportive of the victims?
What is the purpose of making it partisan, or saying it's OK because "they" did it first?
Does it really make you feel better to be that tribal? Aren't we trying to make things better?

109 replies, 10620 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 109 replies Author Time Post
Reply I hate this place at times like this. (Original post)
MGKrebs Jun 2017 OP
gopiscrap Jun 2017 #1
BannonsLiver Jun 2017 #6
gopiscrap Jun 2017 #9
LOL Lib Jun 2017 #18
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #23
atreides1 Jun 2017 #55
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #59
Bettie Jun 2017 #96
Dorian Gray Jun 2017 #99
LOL Lib Jun 2017 #57
WinkyDink Jun 2017 #70
Amaryllis Jun 2017 #87
AtheistCrusader Jun 2017 #89
Saboburns Jun 2017 #104
klook Jun 2017 #40
airmid Jun 2017 #105
Brainstormy Jun 2017 #67
whathehell Jun 2017 #81
Dorian Gray Jun 2017 #100
whathehell Jun 2017 #103
Dorian Gray Jun 2017 #108
SammyWinstonJack Jun 2017 #93
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #20
AtheistCrusader Jun 2017 #88
Dorian Gray Jun 2017 #98
OKNancy Jun 2017 #2
Akamai Jun 2017 #35
Post removed Jun 2017 #82
Else You Are Mad Jun 2017 #3
gopiscrap Jun 2017 #13
LanternWaste Jun 2017 #14
gopiscrap Jun 2017 #17
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #46
Dorian Gray Jun 2017 #101
dalton99a Jun 2017 #38
Jake Stern Jun 2017 #52
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #62
Cosmocat Jun 2017 #69
AtheistCrusader Jun 2017 #90
OriginalGeek Jun 2017 #95
Cosmocat Jun 2017 #72
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #75
Cosmocat Jun 2017 #79
AtheistCrusader Jun 2017 #92
SweetieD Jun 2017 #4
gopiscrap Jun 2017 #10
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #11
58Sunliner Jun 2017 #19
SweetieD Jun 2017 #25
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #36
SweetieD Jun 2017 #44
58Sunliner Jun 2017 #21
IronLionZion Jun 2017 #63
SHRED Jun 2017 #5
gopiscrap Jun 2017 #12
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #37
LOL Lib Jun 2017 #7
LongTomH Jun 2017 #8
freddyvh Jun 2017 #15
58Sunliner Jun 2017 #16
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #39
58Sunliner Jun 2017 #97
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #107
Oneironaut Jun 2017 #22
maryellen99 Jun 2017 #24
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #41
Tatiana Jun 2017 #26
barbtries Jun 2017 #34
CentralMass Jun 2017 #27
cwydro Jun 2017 #28
7962 Jun 2017 #60
onenote Jun 2017 #29
JCanete Jun 2017 #30
elmac Jun 2017 #31
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #42
sarisataka Jun 2017 #32
barbtries Jun 2017 #33
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #43
barbtries Jun 2017 #48
DFW Jun 2017 #56
elmac Jun 2017 #45
Duncan Grant Jun 2017 #77
Pinkflamingo Jun 2017 #47
flibbitygiblets Jun 2017 #49
elmac Jun 2017 #50
Deb Jun 2017 #51
ExciteBike66 Jun 2017 #53
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #78
elleng Jun 2017 #54
SCVDem Jun 2017 #58
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #66
Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2017 #61
missingthebigdog Jun 2017 #76
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #80
sarge43 Jun 2017 #64
MGKrebs Jun 2017 #68
7962 Jun 2017 #65
emulatorloo Jun 2017 #71
nycbos Jun 2017 #73
Saboburns Jun 2017 #74
FrankfurtCat Jun 2017 #83
workinclasszero Jun 2017 #84
beaglelover Jun 2017 #85
G_j Jun 2017 #86
nolabear Jun 2017 #91
angrychair Jun 2017 #94
Miles Archer Jun 2017 #102
Progressive dog Jun 2017 #106
denbot Jun 2017 #109

Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:22 AM

1. it's partisan because if we don't make it partisan they will

the sorry state of our nation makes it needed to be just as shitty and dirty as they are. Democrats need to grow a thicker skin and not give a fuck about offending anyone otherwise we will continue to lose elections

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:24 AM

6. It's also partisan because these people have enabled violence for too long

Zero fucks given about Sandy Hook. Zero fucks given about Pulse. Zero fucks given about anything that runs crossways with their NRA smorgasbord of cash. Glad no one died, but that is the beginning and the end of my empathy for that crowd.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:27 AM

9. exactly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:36 AM

18. I'm gonna get blasted for this post...but

I agree with you on every point. If the shoe were reversed, Repukes would be angry that the shooter didn't actually kill any liberals. They truly want to see all of us dead. So it is hard for me to give a shit about any republican slime.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LOL Lib (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:45 AM

23. What happens if shoe were reversed is not the point!

That is what I am saying. We are who we are. Our response defines us. If we respond the same way "they" would, then we are no better.
This is a tragedy. Whatever battle needs to be fought over this will still be there tomorrow, and we don't even know the story yet anyway. So to try to attach some political significance at this point is just Pavlovian reaction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:38 PM

55. But it is the point

Most of the time we try to do it your way...but the only ones that care are right here! The Republicans don't care, they consider your empathy and compassion as a sign of weakness! And come election time, they won't be telling stories of how compassionate and caring we were...they will convince their base that we are weak, and the weak cannot defend them!!!

You and others like you, are better people...and that's admirable!

I do feel badly for those who were shot, the aides and the police officers...but that's it!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to atreides1 (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:41 PM

59. Well then what is different about us?

If they get violent, we get violent?
If they cheat, we cheat?
If they are racist, we get to be racist?

How can you fight those things if you accept the things you are supposedly fighting against?!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #59)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 05:05 PM

96. "WE" don't get violent

one guy out of millions got violent. Why? Because he is a disturbed guy, probably.

If they cheat, we root out the cheaters and expose them.

If they are racist, well, they are racist and we do our level best not to be (with varying degrees of success, because we'er humans and not perfect).

What we don't need to do is excoriate ourselves over one guy out of millions.

We don't need to blame every person who ever supported Sen. Sanders in the primary for this one guy's actions.

We don't need to act as if the Republican rep who got shot is some kind of folk hero. He's a guy who was in a place with a disturbed individual who chose to use a gun to try to kill people.

That is not "our" fault. All we owe them is what they give us: vague statements about hopes and prayers. The difference there, is that almost none of us wants to see people killed. Them? Not so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to atreides1 (Reply #55)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 05:34 AM

99. Nobody is trying to do it "your way."

There is tribalism here much the same as there is tribalism on the right wing side. It's gross.

People don't care that other people were shot because it makes a political point.

It's gross.

I have no problem talking about enacting gun laws. Most people I know (conservative or liberal) have been horrified at all the gun violence in this nation. A national dialogue needs to happen where we try to find common ground.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:40 PM

57. I understand your argument completely.

We have been leading by example and it hasn't gotten much traction. Repukes never change until they are directly effected it seems. I know we should detest all forms of violence no matter who it is against. I'm not a perfect person so unfortunately I get frustrated with constantly being told to turn the other cheek. Sometimes I just want the privileged white repukes to suffer the same violence they condone against others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:59 PM

70. There is one political party that wants unfettered gun ownership, even for the

 

mentally ill.

Hope they like that "principle."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:10 PM

87. I was really impressed with Wonder Woman with the point that it's not about what they

Last edited Wed Jun 14, 2017, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

deserve; it's about what you believe. I agree with all you say. It has nothing to do with what they do or don't do or what they think or don't think about us. It's about who we are and who we want to be as people, not defined in relation to who THEY are or what they do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Amaryllis (Reply #87)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:21 PM

89. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 06:47 AM

104. I am with you MGKrebs

I have nothing but empathy and sympathy for the victims. With no buts, no blame

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LOL Lib (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:17 PM

40. What I want for Republicans is political defeat and utter humiliation,

not murder and martyrdom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LOL Lib (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 07:01 AM

105. I am of the same thought here. And after reading the responses of some of these people

to Gabby Giffords call for sympathy and healing, I feel pretty vindicated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:47 PM

67. Damn right. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:21 PM

81. Hate to say it, but I pretty much feel the same way..

I, too, am glad none of them died, but yes, they do enable the violence with their rejection of the most common sense gun laws. I remember when Reagan was shot -- I was hoping he'd change on the gun issue after that, bit he didn't. The greedy, souless morons have made us all unsafe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to whathehell (Reply #81)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 05:36 AM

100. And back when Reagan was shot

the NRA wasn't the bloated behemoth it is today, either.

I'm all in favor of common sense gun laws. That so many states resist them is horrible to me, especially with all the gun violence we have in this country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 06:22 AM

103. True..

Yes, we certainly do need common sense gun laws..I don't, however, think the "state by state" approach works...Chicago has strict gun laws, but loads of gun crime....Why? They are easily accessible just over the state line in Indiana. It needs to be Federal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to whathehell (Reply #103)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 09:12 PM

108. Yeah...

I live in NYC. I believe (though I don't own guns nor do I want to) that laws differ upstate than they do here. That's a municipality difference. I think common sense national laws about safety and licensing are no brainers. But, apparently, that's a stupid thing to say to much of our country. And that's sad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:36 PM

93. Sandy Hook.....says it all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:40 AM

20. So what if they do?

We can be tough without seeming to revel in it.
I'm no flower child, but my identity is not so totally wrapped up in being "liberal" or "Democrat" that I can't step back for a few hours and just be human.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:19 PM

88. This is why the Cold War dragged on for most of my life.

Not giving a fuck about offending people is a pretty good way to lose elections. Do you even hear yourself?

Our opponents (with the exception of about 10% of Dick Cheney) are actually human beings. Keeping that in mind, is key to defeating their political agenda, and winning converts.


There's a way to convince conservatives that, for instance, stand to lose everything by the repeal of the ACA, and 'not giving a fuck' isn't the way to communicate with them.


Tribalism will be as much our undoing, as theirs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 05:31 AM

98. So...

If I don't act like a jerk, they'll do it first?

We aren't 12 years old anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:22 AM

2. I agree

It's always been this way though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OKNancy (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:11 PM

35. Not always--it mainly started with Gingrich in the 1980's who told Republicans never to describe the

 

Democratic party without adding an insulting adjective. The Republican leaders since then have piled on the negative adjectives, this to the point that the media don't object to those insults and the American people believe those negative characterizations.

The Republican party has been lying about huge mattters well before Trump appeared.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Akamai (Reply #35)


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:22 AM

3. There is such hatred these days...

That we should be above such and show we are better than the right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Else You Are Mad (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:29 AM

13. bullshit we will only win when we get in the gutter

and fight fire with fire

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:33 AM

14. Winning is indeed, more important than our own behavior, our ethics and our character

Winning is indeed, more important than our own behavior, our ethics and our character in the wee minds of people I habitually avoid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:36 AM

17. yes because with a loss nothing changes

we gotta quit being a bunch Pollyanna wimps...go for the throat of any conservative...seek to ruin them financially and politically, then when we win, change can happen

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:25 PM

46. That is a false choice.

There are more possibilities than "Pollyanna wimp" and "winning".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 05:38 AM

101. If you get into the gutter with them

you won't win. You'll become them.

And it'll be same old, same old.

YUCK.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:14 PM

38. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:31 PM

52. I have to agree

They're bashing us with brass knuckles while we respond by swatting them with a feather. It's time the Dems fight back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jake Stern (Reply #52)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:43 PM

62. What does that mean?

Saying crap like "they deserve it" is fighting back?
That's crazy talk.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:55 PM

69. YEP

nm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gopiscrap (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:26 PM

90. Bullshit. The Obama Presidential campaign never got in the gutter. Not once.

Have we ALREADY forgotten the quiet dignity that he won with?

Are you suggesting we would have won MORE if we'd fought fire with fire and slung mud, and racism, and hate, just like they did?

Please tell me you're not serious. It's not going to work, and it's totally a-historical. We do NOT win when we get in the gutter. You cannot out-gutter them. You want to engage on a battlefield they built, and own.

Having a spine, standing up to them, shaming them with their own savagery, none of that requires adopting their tactics. If we become them to beat them, why bother winning? Do you want to be them? I sure as fuck don't.

And I won't help you do it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #90)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 04:32 PM

95. 100% this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Else You Are Mad (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:05 PM

72. 9-11

Dems absolutely got behind W in the aftermath of 9-11, and the simpleton got his favorability ratings into the 90% range.

Out of the gates, had it happened under Gore, no damn way they got behind him like that, none.

That said, they IMMEDIATELY started their spin of how, despite it being 8 months into his tenure, despite his completely sleep walking through IC warnings, it was in fact Clinton's fault for not getting OBL (when they were all up his ass at the time screaming how his warnings about the dangers of Islamic terrorists were just an attempt to distract from his blow job).

They then spent the next five years using 9-11 as a political sledge hammer, called us "in league with the terrorists" if we questioned anything and screamed about how YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF WHILE TROOPS ARE IN THE FIELD! - a phrase never again repeated after January of 2009.

Benghazi, something that happened literally a dozen times when W was in charge, and they went ape shit and made it into the greatest scandal in history.

All this "hatred" is 90% them, playing it both ways ...

And, is why they have wrestled their way into full control in DC and most of the states.

We ARE "better than them" but that means very little when they use their assholeness to get a vice grip on power.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cosmocat (Reply #72)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:10 PM

75. I just don't see where matching their hatred gains us anything.

OK, so let's say we win. But we've done it by doing all the nasty things they do that we say we are against. So then we are suddenly going to change back into our previous selves?
I don't think so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #75)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:18 PM

79. Then accept where we are now

cause that is what being "better than them" has led to ...

AND, no one is saying being russian bought scumbags, either.

It isn't binary - there is A LOT between where they are and where the Dems are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #75)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:30 PM

92. "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster."

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:23 AM

4. What would an avowed white supremacist like Scalise think about me as a black woman if I got shot?

Well that is what I feel for him. Contempt.

This was a man who praised himself for being David Duke without the baggage. A man who spoke at a white supremacist convention.

I am not aware of all the victims. If some were decent and innocent people who were harmed I feel sorry for them getting caught in the crossfire.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SweetieD (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:27 AM

10. I totally agree with you-you have my heart

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SweetieD (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:28 AM

11. Then aren't you the same as him?

How are you different?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:38 AM

19. You really have to ask?? LOL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:50 AM

25. No. Because I am the victim of people like Scalise and he is the perpetrator.

There is a power imbalance and no I am not just like him for feeling contempt for him. I have no power over him. The only thing I have to offer is sympathy and I will reserve that for people who aren't using their power to enact policies to hurt me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SweetieD (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:11 PM

36. Does John Lewis wish his oppressors were shot?

Did MLK preach intolerance?

I don't think so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:23 PM

44. I don't care what they wanted. I speak for myself. And I never said I wanted Scalise to be shot.

I said I don't have any sympathy for him and I don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SweetieD (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:40 AM

21. +1,000. I'll save my pity for his victims.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SweetieD (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:43 PM

63. The wounded Capitol Police officers were not guilty of anything

as far as we or the shooter would have known.

I can disagree with Scalise's political views and generally deplorable behavior without wanting anyone to get shot. Punched in the face maybe, but not shot.

I'm also relieved to see that the shooter was white. It would be worse for us if he was brown/black.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:23 AM

5. Many of us are speaking to their hypocrisy

 

Their deadly hypocrisy.

And their partisan blame going on right now.

It's called defense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SHRED (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:28 AM

12. thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SHRED (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:13 PM

37. I guess you can tell yourself whatever you want.

You don't even really know enough about what happened yet to make ANY kind of statement about it. None of us do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:25 AM

7. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:25 AM

8. I agree totally!

We should not add to the hatred so rampant in the country right now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:35 AM

15. until the GOP

 

addresses mass shootings that happen on a monthly basis and tries to combat them....i will feel no sympathy for them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:35 AM

16. We know that it will be partisan, they will make it so.

We are continually held to a different standard, hypocrisy. They are not really that interested in the dead or injured unless they can politically profit off of them. And if they see them as a liability, they will try to discredit them. And I do not see anyone saying "it's ok, they did it first", so part of the premise for your post is false to me.
"Aren't we trying to make things better?"-What does this even mean in the reality of what we have to put up with? Really.
I am surprised it hasn't happened sooner. They are trying to destroy our country, our support, our land, our water-etc,,,,,,,,,,, I don't approve of the act. But if it was politically motivated by years of abuse, then I understand. And that is my opinion.
I don't understand the hate that lots of these right wing killers have used to justify what they do. The lies they spread, the fear they promulgate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 58Sunliner (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:16 PM

39. Well then respond to those that do!

There's no sense in preemptively treating anyone as less than human based on what you expect them to do at some time in the future.
What battle are you fighting exactly?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 01:55 AM

97. Why do you make assumptions not based on what people post.

preemptively treating anyone as less than human-when did I do that?
It isn't a battle, it's a reality based on past behavior. Unless you are referring to the war being waged on people in this country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 58Sunliner (Reply #97)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 07:36 AM

107. "They will make it so" refers to the future.

"They are not really that interested in the dead or injured unless they can politically profit off of them." That is a broad generalization and therefore lumps together a whole group into one despicable category. Maybe not sub-human but no discernible difference. Using words like "they" dehumanizes whoever you are talking about unless you have defined who you are talking about. "They" is some diffuse boogie-man we don't have to put a face or a name on. Who is "they"? When you make generalizations like that you have to be very careful. It's usually a sign of a cheap way to try to make a point, or inflate it's significance.

My comment was just asking you to define what it is you are suggesting. You seem to be trying to justify some sort of behavior, or at least opposing being sympathetic at this time. But when you generalize about "them" and "they will" then you are into nebulous territory with no meaning. Be more specific and maybe this could be a productive discussion.

I am going to speculate: You get angry when you hear the vicious things some on the right wing say (I do too), especially when it comes from the media and the Repub leadership. But I am saying that being vicious in return isn't a productive response. It's just pseudo-revenge. It doesn't diminish your or my ability to oppose the right wing agenda by taking a moment to be sympathetic to Scalise's family. Our first thought doesn't have to be a calculation of the political advantage or disadvantage. Someone out there will do that of course (media) but that's kind of their job.

Way too long, I probably shouldn't post this but what the hell.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:41 AM

22. It's proof of how politics in this country has jumped the shark.

Everybody cares more about if the shooter is a Republican or Democrat than the victims, so that the other party can look bad. It has degraded into a sports team-like fanaticism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Oneironaut (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:46 AM

24. I'm sorry Scalise was shot but he's still a POS White Supremacist nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maryellen99 (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:18 PM

41. And I won't argue with that.

I think that sums up my feelings pretty well. But too many skip the first part and go right into the "serves them right" shtick. I doubt there is any battle we want to win where that is a viable tactic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:52 AM

26. The victims have my sympathy. But they are reaping the hate that they have sown.

So, while I pray for their complete recovery from this tragedy, I also hope their hearts are changed as a result of what they have suffered.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tatiana (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:10 PM

34. this is the best response right here

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 11:53 AM

27. Good post and I agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:01 PM

28. K and r.

And posters happy that the shooter was white.

Gotta bring race into it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cwydro (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:42 PM

60. OMG isnt that the truth

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:05 PM

29. Sadly true.

There are some posts here today that mirror the kinds of posts made by Freepers after Gabby was shot. Not all. Not even most or many. But even one is too many.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:05 PM

30. Yeah, its a damn shame, and it is entirely ineffective. It makes us look shitty, and that's

 


not good, because Democrats, unlike republicans rely on critical thinkers to support our party, not unapologetic sports-fans. This is murder and terror. We can't decry murder and terror in some circumstances, and then condone it or lessen it in others and expect that to get us to a better place as a society. That will surely devolve us to a point of mindless factionalization.

We can attempt to understand the perpetrator, but should never justify/appreciate/be cold to the victims of/ these kinds of actions,.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:05 PM

31. A repug Congressman from IL said in an interview

 

that he blamed all the political talk that repug policies are killing ameriKans. Get ready for Dems to be too polite to fight these fascist pigs and repugs using this to push through their murderous policies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elmac (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:20 PM

42. We should fight that fascist pig for that comment.

That's a whole different thing and totally appropriate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:06 PM

32. They go low, we go lower

They are hypocrites, we need to be bigger hypocrites

It's all covfefe...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:08 PM

33. you can block people

and you can trash threads. that's what i do...i have nothing good to say about the congressman who got shot today. doesn't mean i have to pray for him. he'll never say a prayer for me or any of the poor suffering people in his state of LA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to barbtries (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:23 PM

43. I don't block people anymore.

I feel like I want to see it all. I just don't get as emotionally wrapped up in the stupid stuff anymore.
There's another thread about a Rolling Stone interview with Rachel Maddow that is very good, and she talks about detachment like that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #43)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:27 PM

48. i do.

especially on fb. hundreds of them. for some reason it gives me a feeling of satisfaction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Reply #43)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:39 PM

56. I have never once put anyone on ignore. I ignore posts, not people.

I never know when someone who posts something I consider stupid might post something I consider brilliant.

As for Scalise and the shooter--I don't condone the shooter or even the fact that he had access to a gun. But nor will I weep for Scalise, who has long championed the very sword that struck him. If Scalise's words and votes are to be taken seriously, he himself has far more understanding and sympathy for his assailant than I ever will.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:24 PM

45. Tracking daily gun violence across the country

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elmac (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:12 PM

77. Clearly a public health issue.

Thanks for sharing the link. It belongs in this thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:26 PM

47. One thing is universally true-- no one cares about the dead shooter.

I believe you can't attempt a mass shooting without having mental illness, be it documented or undiagnosed. Although the vast majority of people with mental illness aren't violent, some are. Still, we seem to expect it and not look very hard for a cure, or a CPR system for mental illness emergencies. Cops just shoot em dead and no one cares. Even though this could have avoided with the proper research and think tank.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:27 PM

49. Thank you MGK! You make this forum a better place.

And to anyone who disagrees, may I suggest instead of infighting, direct your energies toward our congresspeople to enact gun control on people convicted of domestic violence!

If there were ever a chance they'd listen, it might be now...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:30 PM

50. there will be a Kumbaya moment

 

where dems will be sincere, respectful and non confrontational and repugs will use to push through murderous policies with little trouble. That is just the way it goes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:31 PM

51. Knowing that trolls will be exposed to the home page

tends to make up for it, at least for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:32 PM

53. Are they really victims?

Their policies make mass shootings easier. In most instances, it is actual innocent people who get hurt, but here the "victims" seem less innocent to me.

Doesn't make the shooting right, but we cannot ignore the reality that Republicans have a hand in creating mass violence when they knowingly allow the tools of same to be purchased willy-nilly...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #53)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:16 PM

78. Yes they are victims.

And yes their policies probably make this sort of thing easier to do. And this is the discussion that should be had. No need to sell our souls in pursuit of winning elections.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:33 PM

54. Ditto. Thanks.

I posted an OP on the subject, and am seeing so many negative and partisan posts, I'm thinking of removing it entirely. ( https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029203111 )

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:41 PM

58. We worry about OUR tone, meanwhile,

 

Did anyone read the comments following the commissioning of the USS Giffords?

Yes, they cheered the shooter and derided Gabby.

But WE are supposed to be civil?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SCVDem (Reply #58)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:46 PM

66. Yes. What does being vile gain you?

Makes you feel better somehow? Seems to me like all it does is give them further ammunition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:42 PM

61. Violence & assassination never ok except in most very dire situations. We aren't close to that. . nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:10 PM

76. Absolutely- but dire is in the eye of the beholder.

We don't know what motivated this guy- yet. Unfortunately, the news cycle doesn't really allow us to wait for that information; if we have any chance of minimizing the damage here, we have to get out in front of it. I hope that's what our leadership is doing right now- deciding what the talking points are going to be, and lining up the Sunday show appearances.

What people need to understand is that it is not all that difficult to incite this type of behavior. We just had an election in which candidates from both parties attempted to leverage economic injustice to their advantage. Some people had to believe that meant things were going to get better for them. Now, those people feel betrayed, and hurt, and forgotten by the candidates, the parties, and the country.

All of the time now, I see hopelessness in people. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, no pot of gold. Nobody is coming to save us. These people BELIEVED things would change, and that the change would come fast. They voted for that, whether their ballot was marked for Trump or they wrote in Bernie or voted for Jill Stein (which is apparently what this guy did). Reality persists, and that is beyond frustrating. Having riled up all of these people on the fringes, can we really expect them to sit back and be quiet? I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen many more incidents like this.

To this guy, this is a dire situation which justifies violence and assassination. We created this, and we better figure out a way to own it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #76)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:18 PM

80. Good comment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:44 PM

64. Is it all right to give them exactly, but exactly, the same amount of support

that they have given to all the other victims of gun violence?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sarge43 (Reply #64)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:48 PM

68. If you want to help victims of gun violence, then help victims of gun violence.

If you want to work for policy change, then work for policy change.
Explicitly or implicitly condoning violence does neither of those things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:45 PM

65. Or the immediate jump to "Its a setup" "Its a false flag"

 

Like the left doesnt have their own FAR left violent people.

Bless you for making this point; I'm sorry for the hell you're going to catch for posting it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:59 PM

71. I agree with you. Human beings were shot today by a madman

I find it appalling that some are almost justifying what the shooter did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:06 PM

73. THANK YOU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:07 PM

74. I am with you MGKrebs

I have nothing but Empathy and Sympathy for the victims of this crime. Empathy and Sympathy with no buts, no blame, and no hatred towards the victims.

I cringe when I read some of these comments.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:33 PM

83. Excuse me if this has already been posted, but I just found this, words cannot describe....

"Gabrielle Giffords' Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met with...Hate":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gabby-giffords-shooting-response-twitter_us_59414537e4b09ad4fbe4a66f


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:44 PM

84. Yeah let's have pity on the party that is getting

 

ready to kill all health care for 30 million poor men women and children. How many millions of these innocent people, many of them children, will die a horrible and needless death because of these poor fucking republicans?

These are the same scum balls that advocated 2nd amendment solutions against democrats and along with the right wing terrorist front group NRA made it possible for every nutcase in America to be fully armed with deadly military assault weapons.

They should have stopped and thought that out a bit it seems.

Just wait until Trumpcare is sprung on the American public. Gonna be millions of pissed off
and fully armed former Dump voters after they see what their fucking hero did to them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:45 PM

85. Browse the posts today at DI. You'll feel a lot better about DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:02 PM

86. "We live in a political world"

Last edited Wed Jun 14, 2017, 03:53 PM - Edit history (5)

but really, the truth must come before any thought of what team one may be on. In all of these tragic American shootings, discussion comes to bear, IF, as a society we want to even attempt to address these tragedies with the intent of lessening their occurrences.
The elephant in the room most always seems to be the NRA, and they are up their eyes in politics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 02:30 PM

91. I agree. We should oppose them, not become them.

It's disheartening to see people I agree with on many things succumb to meanness and coviction that it's either that or roll over. There are other ways.

I can't get the old adage "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind" out of my mind these days. We can be better. Else what are we fighting for?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 03:20 PM

94. I agree to a certain point

But some of these people are the same people that belittled, disregarded or even feed the conspiracy of it being fake by not speaking out in regards to Sandy Hook. I can clearly remember them mocking president Obama for crying.

So while I feel for these victims of violence I also recognize that republicans give zero fucks about victims of gun violence, especially if they are Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 06:10 AM

102. I love this place at times like this

Because most of the people here have been critical of the act and supportive of the victims, without burying their heads in the sand and turning a blind eye to how the flames of violence had division have been fanned since Donald Trump declared his interest in running for President.

Keep an eye on Trump for the next few weeks, especially after this act dissipates from the front page and the Mueller investigation intensifies. Then you can tell me why DU is a "partisan tribe."


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 07:05 AM

106. I know that the "we are better than they are,

so it's alright" argument doesn't excuse the lack of empathy shown by some here. But, it is a small minority who continue to "make it partisan", at least among Democrats.
Hopefully, in the real world, Democratic elected officials and leaders from the Democratic establishment continue to support their fellow Americans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MGKrebs (Original post)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 09:30 PM

109. Hi MGKrebs!

Yeah we should be better at showing sympathy without conditions. Though I've not seen any posts that were OK with an individual gunning down other human beings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread