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Fri Jun 16, 2017, 04:49 PM

Trump Today

“It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that's not the case anymore. Facts matter not at all. Perception is everything.”
Stephen Colbert

“In both law and politics, I think the essential battle is the meta-battle of framing the narrative.”
Ted Cruz


During the 2016 republican primary and general election, Donald Trump was able to exercise control over the narrative. In the primaries, he was assisted by the media; in the general election, by Russia. An objective appraisal would conclude that neither the media or his campaign's Russian connections are aiding him in his presidency.

There are, of course, a group of people who are entrenched in their support of Trump. They are the right-wing of the republican party and others who are further to the right of that party. Though they are a minority nation-wide, they represent an important voting block in several states.

There are also many people who opposed Trump as a candidate, and as president. They are the majority in our country. Currently, the mainstream media and Russian investigations benefit their cause. If they find unity of purpose they will be the most important voting block nation-wide.

The facts are entirely on our side. The media – especially the Washington Post and New York Times – report on facts uncovered by the investigations on an almost daily basis. If the law and politics were completed rooted in facts, there would be no support for Trump, other than that of his family, business associates, and their Russian buddies.

Trump and his supporters have reacted by resorting to his campaign tactics. He is appealing to his base to support him, despite the facts. But the White House narrative is failing dismally on every level except the alt-right.

However, using some simple campaign strategies and tactics can serve the Democratic Party quite well. This can – and should – be done in coordination with the upcoming congressional elections. Let's consider the most basic rule of any type of political and/or social campaign. There are always three groups: those who will always support your cause, those who will always oppose you, and those who are either undecided, or who might change their position.

We want to energize the first group; generally ignore the second group; and convince the third group. Thus, the narrative used to communicate to each group has to be flexible. We benefit from having the first group being active participants in a coordinated effort to damage Trump & friends to the point where impeachment and criminal convictions become reality. The vehicle that allows us to do this is Amendment 1.

In discussions between those in group one, there are a wide range of topics worthy of our attention. We have no need to speak to the second group, but we can often use their words against them while communicating with the third group. Trump's tweets provide a great example of this option.

Trump continues to whine that the investigation is a witch hunt, carried on by Democrats who are sore losers. And it's true that a serious case can be made that Trump would not have won the electoral vote without the Russian's aid. But, in conversations with group three, we should stick to two important points that do not involve any speculation: the intelligence community was investigating Russia's role well before the election, and no patriotic American should be okay with foreign intrusions on our elections. It's really that simple to put Trump's argument in check.

Next, just as Trump used nicknames to label his opponents, we have the opportunity to label him and his merry band of fools. While talking with others from group one – such as here on DU – I do not hesitate to refer to Trump as a flaming asshole, etc. But in speaking to the general public, I prefer a different approach. I've noted that Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson has been referring to the administration as mobsters. That is simple, accurate, and powerful. It combines well with references to the current scandal resembling Watergate, and the question, “What is Trump trying to hide?” As it becomes part of the narrative, it communicates a clear message to group three.

This is, as so many have noted, a strange and dangerous time. Trump clearly wants to fire both Rosenstein and Mueller. The more the pressure is applied to him and his son-in-law, the more his reactions will be out of control. The more out of control he becomes, the more damage he does to himself, and to VP Pence. There is no nobler cause today than participating, at the grass roots level, with the further destabilizing of the Trump administration. Let's get busy.

Peace,
H2O Man

72 replies, 11768 views

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Arrow 72 replies Author Time Post
Reply Trump Today (Original post)
H2O Man Jun 2017 OP
dalton99a Jun 2017 #1
H2O Man Jun 2017 #2
CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2017 #3
H2O Man Jun 2017 #4
erronis Jun 2017 #57
SalviaBlue Jun 2017 #5
H2O Man Jun 2017 #7
SalviaBlue Jun 2017 #9
tblue37 Jun 2017 #20
H2O Man Jun 2017 #22
Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #36
H2O Man Jun 2017 #38
Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #39
H2O Man Jun 2017 #40
gordianot Jun 2017 #52
H2O Man Jun 2017 #53
livetohike Jun 2017 #6
H2O Man Jun 2017 #8
orangecrush Jun 2017 #10
H2O Man Jun 2017 #23
Warpy Jun 2017 #27
jaysunb Jun 2017 #68
blue-wave Jun 2017 #11
H2O Man Jun 2017 #24
malaise Jun 2017 #12
H2O Man Jun 2017 #25
Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2017 #13
H2O Man Jun 2017 #29
calimary Jun 2017 #14
H2O Man Jun 2017 #30
Ilsa Jun 2017 #15
H2O Man Jun 2017 #31
tomp Jun 2017 #16
H2O Man Jun 2017 #32
tomp Jun 2017 #46
LiberalLovinLug Jun 2017 #56
madokie Jun 2017 #17
H2O Man Jun 2017 #33
George II Jun 2017 #18
H2O Man Jun 2017 #34
tblue37 Jun 2017 #19
H2O Man Jun 2017 #35
Doitnow Jun 2017 #21
H2O Man Jun 2017 #41
Break time Jun 2017 #26
H2O Man Jun 2017 #42
Lucinda Jun 2017 #28
H2O Man Jun 2017 #43
bullwinkle428 Jun 2017 #37
H2O Man Jun 2017 #44
BarbD Jun 2017 #45
H2O Man Jun 2017 #48
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #47
H2O Man Jun 2017 #50
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #58
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #49
H2O Man Jun 2017 #51
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #60
Me. Jun 2017 #55
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #59
Me. Jun 2017 #62
H2O Man Jun 2017 #63
Me. Jun 2017 #66
H2O Man Jun 2017 #69
Me. Jun 2017 #72
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #67
coeur_de_lion Jun 2017 #64
Me. Jun 2017 #65
Me. Jun 2017 #54
H2O Man Jun 2017 #70
58Sunliner Jun 2017 #61
H2O Man Jun 2017 #71

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 04:50 PM

1. A logical analysis.

Thanks.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 04:52 PM

2. Thank you, dalton99a!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 04:54 PM

3. Masterfully written, my dear H20 Man.

You have described the best path for defeating the Republican Party and tRump along with it.

The more we destabilize tRump, the crazier he gets, and the deeper the hole he's digging gets as well.

Yes, let's get busy!

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 04:58 PM

4. Thanks!

I was going to add that this is a unique opportunity to split the republican party in 2018 and 2020. But I try not to make my essays too long. The opening we have to elect a large number of Democrats -- at the local, state, and national level -- is something we need to dedicate ourselves to doing.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 04:54 PM

57. But let's make sure EVERY repuglican is tied to the hip of this sinking carcass!

I'd hate to sink the bloviator and have more conniving bastards like pence,turtle,egoman (my apologies to the other bastards) be able to survive and thrive with the pustule removed.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:00 PM

5. Mobsters it is.

My first inclination is to call them Evil MFers but I know that's not productive.

Mobsters is a good and tempered description. It is also true.

Thanks!

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Response to SalviaBlue (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:03 PM

7. Right!

That's from Col. Wilkerson. I used the term recently in a local store in a nearby hamlet. The owner, who I like, is a republican who despises Trump. Still, the word "mobster" caught his attention, and he asked me twice if I really believed Trump & Co are "organized crime"? I said not necessarily well organized, but mobsters just the same.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:05 PM

9. Unorganized Crime

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 06:57 PM

20. Trump has been mobbed up for decades. nt

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 08:29 PM

22. Yes, I remember

when he worked with boxing promoter Don King years ago, holding top fights in Atlantic City. There was a point where he wanted to "buy" Mike Tyson's future, to coordinate Mike's fate with that parasite King. Luckily, in a strange way, Mike details this in his autobiography. It was during one of the cycles of his out-of-control behavior, and Trump wasn't who Tyson would listen to.

Boxing has almost always been controlled by mobsters. Some petty, some more successful. Parasites.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 10:19 AM

36. The NYC construction industry has it's own mob ties...

Trump, of course, has been ass deep in that morass his whole life. He's even internationalized it. Exposing his financials would expose all of his connections to Russians and post-USSR mobsters from all of the SSRs scattered around Central Asia.

Follow the money.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #36)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:09 AM

38. Right.

And there again is a connection that is not coincidence: the construction industry has long been "connected" with the fight game. That business allows its members to invest in the sport, buying fighters in the same manner that people buy race horses.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:16 AM

39. I don't watch any of the "combat" sports...

haven't in years. My dad used to watch wrestling (those rare times we actually had a TV set) and I never really got hooked on it. Wrestling was obviously fake, even to my young eyes. When boxing started to pull the same bullshit that wrestling did on a regular basis, including the fighting at weigh-ins, all the shouting and posing, etc I really soured on it.

So I'm a bit out of touch with it, but hardly surprised at your allegations. Don King was a seedy character since forever, long as I can remember. Money and power corrupts anything it touches and it takes people of real character to counter that. Not a lot of real character in the Trump family, or at least not what I would define as such.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:41 AM

40. Here's a good example:

What did King's #1 competitor do before he became a boxing promoter? He worked as an attorney for Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy. Bob's specialty was investigating organized crime's influence on the sport of boxing. This was part of Kennedy's focus on the labor unions that ran the construction business.

I could list a hundred other examples, several from personal experience.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #36)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:21 PM

52. The only way you can survive so many bankruptcies is to be bought.

Being President is Trump's last paying gig. Even then Trump is blowing it.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #52)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:23 PM

53. Important point.

Thank you for this.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:01 PM

6. Thanks for pointing out (among many other good points), that

we are the majority. Trump will continue to belittle us because he can't stand the fact that he lost the popular vote. I really believe the stress is getting to him. He was unprepared for this office and he knows it. It must be killing him.

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Response to livetohike (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:05 PM

8. I agree.

Trump is breaking under the stress. And lots of people in the White House are, off the record, telling journalists that his problems are largely of his own making.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:40 PM

10. Kick

Time to get busy.

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Response to orangecrush (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 08:39 PM

23. Thanks, orangecrush!

I keep looking at the "teams," and compare who will be able to tell the narrative best.

They've got Trump, Kellyann Conway, and Alex Jones.

We have Mr. Comey, Mueller, Senator Kamala Harris, and Rachel.

Our team wins.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 10:15 PM

27. Well, given normal times, our team would steamroll right over them

because lets face it, Orange Excrescence is used to being a divine power potentate in business and has managed to get through his life on bullying and bluster and an uncanny ability to chisel big money out of people who should know better. His team would be a drunk family picnic baseball team against one of the major league teams.

Unfortunately, his team isn't just what we see out in front. Behind them are nearly every bloated plutocrat in the country, paying people to kneecap the MLB players before they take the field and making sure the umpire and the sportscaster are both paid well to lie about what's going on.

Our team should win, but we need to realize just what they are up against.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 07:59 PM

68. +1 n/t

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:45 PM

11. It is a very dangerous time

So what do we do if Trump goes completely mad? We cannot allow him to destroy democracy, start a world war, imprison people without just cause or whatever crazy he may invent. I can only hope and pray that there are enough good people close enough to him that are able and willing to stop him from doing something insane. The time for good people around him to stand up is fast approaching. And I'm so afraid that there are none.

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Response to blue-wave (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 08:42 PM

24. Interesting.

I'm convinced that the longer Trump remains in power, the worse his attempted assaults on democracy will be.

Likewise, by working to get rid of him, we strengthen the fabric of our constitutional democracy.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:46 PM

12. Excellent post

Rec

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Response to malaise (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 08:42 PM

25. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:48 PM

13. Always refer to Trump as Republican. Use Trump to damage the Republican brand that elevated him.


Republican mobster stupid Minority President tRump, if you prefer.

But voters must not be allowed to forget that he represents the pinnacle of Republican efforts for 40 years. He defeated 16 candidates because he was more Republican than they were.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 09:51 AM

29. Right.

Use him as a wedge to split the republican party.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:51 PM

14. You always come up with something outstanding, H2O Man.

Bravo!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 09:59 AM

30. Thank you, calimary.

At my age, I thought I'd seen everything. But this Trump presidency is beyond anything that I've experienced, or read about in American history. It requires our very best efforts, to insure the stability of this nation for the younger, and future, generations.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 06:47 PM

15. Bad dude gettin' buggy. nt

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 09:59 AM

31. Right!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 06:50 PM

16. fine....

 

....but none of this matters one bit if the vote count does not match the voters' intentions or if eligible voters are prevented from voting or having their votes counted. .

we should be shouting from the rooftops about republican gerrymandering, registration obstacles, unnecessarily discarded votes, irregularities in procedures, and unreliable voting machines.

we, i mean The Democratic Party, SHOULD HAVE started this campaign intensely at least as early as 2004. though the florida purge for the 2000 election should have been enough reason to be marching in the streets (and for other reasons as well).

also, all of this should apply not just to presidential voting but to all races.

after 2016, it is political malpractice bordering on treason, NOT to address this issue in a concerted fashion. we have the numbers but the votes aren't being cast and counted the way they should be. the campaign for reforming the voting process or 2018 is way behind schedule.

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Response to tomp (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 10:09 AM

32. I agree.

Of the topics raised in John Paul Stevens' 2014 book, "Six Amendments: How and Why We Should Change the Constitution," the issue of gerrymandering seems most important to me. The related issues that you list go hand in hand with that.

My friend Rubin Carter often noted that "no dam ever built today can hold back waters already spilt." While we should have, as the Democratic Party, addressed those issues in 2004 (actually, well before), we cannot change the past. And we can only impact the future by way of what actions we take now.

So yes, I absolutely agree that we need a wide focus.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 01:33 PM

46. glad you agree.

 

however, my point was a bit more particular: the democratic party needs to take this up as an immediate priority if it is to have any effect on 2018. they should have started yesterday, tomorrow is too late.

in all seriousness, how do we effect this, when the dems appear to have been studiously avoiding it for so long?

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Response to tomp (Reply #46)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:57 PM

56. It is confusing and frustrating as hell

The deafening silence by Dems on election fraud and any demands to radically change/protect the foundation of democracy.

At best one is met with a dismissal of any concerns with voting machines etc.. At worst an eyeroll and smirk and looking at you like you are a whacky Alex Jones type conspiracy theorist.

If NOW is not a good time to be up in arms about election fraud, after you have been robbed of the Presidency, and also a SCOTUS pick and subsequent majority, not to mention the fallout of losing both the House and Senate,...then when is?

They should be demanding paper ballots only in the foreseeable future, at least until it can be assured that there is sufficient oversight on those machines. It should be a talking point on every appearance on network tv.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 06:52 PM

17. Spot on

As aways

Peace

Happy Fathers Day weekend

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Response to madokie (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 10:09 AM

33. Thank you!

Much appreciated!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 06:55 PM

18. There should be a dedicated forum or group for daily trump updates....

...almost like the old top 10 conservative idiots.

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Response to George II (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 10:12 AM

34. Right!

A concentration of Trump et al-related OP/threads would be good. Back in the days of the Plame scandal, there were numerous outstanding examples of this. And those were read by a heck of a lot of people who were not DU members.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 06:56 PM

19. I like the Donny Two Scoops nickname here because it is a mob style nickname.

I always compare the Trump administration to mobsters. I think it is the most effective approach.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 10:12 AM

35. Perfect!

I love it!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 07:44 PM

21. They are, indeed, mobsters....members of a gang, They will stick together---until they don't because

each one of them, when it comes down to it, only cares for his own skin.

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

41. Exactly.

There are some mighty weak links in that chain. These aren't the type of hoodlum that adhere to the criminal code of honor, willing to face incarceration with a closed mouth.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 09:46 PM

26. As usual

Spot on, hit the nail on the head, right on on all points

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Response to Break time (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

42. Thanks, Break time!

I appreciate that!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 10:52 PM

28. KNR

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Response to Lucinda (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

43. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 10:24 AM

37. One MEELION kicks and recs for this!

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:44 AM

44. Thanks bullwinkle428!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 12:20 PM

45. Truth is power.

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Response to BarbD (Reply #45)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 01:52 PM

48. True.

Gandhi often noted that, "Truth is God" (though he pointed out that does not equal, "God is Truth". However one defines and relates to Truth, it is indeed power!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 01:36 PM

47. I can't think of anything that sounds like more fun

than pissing off Donald Trump.

What do you recommend?

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #47)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:02 PM

50. Oh, lots of things.

Internet discussions are good, but if one limits themselves to, say, DU, they aren't doing anything that could possibly bring about change. Obviously, sharing information is good, even necessary. But it is what we do with that information that matters the most.

Being old, not very clever, and rather set in my ways, I tend to go to Amendment 1 for suggestions. In particular, I focus on our right (and absolute responsibility as citizens) to engage in the following:

a) Write letters-to-the-editors of local regional newspapers;
b) write, e-mail, and call elected representatives;
c) when possible, attend local/regional rallies and demonstrations; and
d) encourage others -- say, DUers -- to engage in coordinated contacts of a specific media source.

I'm interested in what other things that DUers here can think of.



(Note: You have identified the topic I decided to focus my next DU:GD essay on. Is this mere coincidence? Or have you programmed my thinking?)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #50)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 04:57 PM

58. It has taken me 13 years

but you are finally fully programmed. Yes, I did plant that suggestion in your brain.

{{{{not really}}}}

LOL no H I am not brilliant in the ways of political activism as you are. I hope one day to be worthy of your praise.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 01:52 PM

49. Another funny article in The New Yorker

that no one outside of New York has probably read.

Newly Discovered Very Illegal Thing Will Finally Bring Down Trump (Or Be Another Cute Tile in the Mosaic of Democracy’s Demise, I Guess)

By Broti Gupta and Karen Chee
June 13, 2017
Our only on-the-record comment came from the Commander-in-Chief himself, via Twitter. It read, “I would never do Illegal Thing, despite all the evidence that I did do Illegal Thing.” This statement was officially released after four failed attempts to spell “evidence.”
In closing, our opinion is that this New Illegal Thing is what will finally bring down Trump. It must be the final straw after, to review, he has already been accused of:

Sexually assaulting multiple women.
Continuing to engage in corrupt business dealings around the world.
Firing the F.B.I. director, James Comey, for investigating Trump’s ties to Russia.
Sharing classified information with the Russian Ambassador and foreign minister.
Trying to eliminate the health-care system.
Building a campaign on racism, Islamophobia, and sexism.
Like, all those things should have really done it by now, right?
How is that not enough??
HOW MUCH WORSE DOES HE NEED TO GET?!
DO WE NEED TO RELEASE THE PEE TAPES?!
HAVE WE GONE INSANE?! WHAT IS HAPPENING?! HE DOESN'T EVEN WANT THIS JOB!! DO YOU KNOW HOW DUMB OUR ARTICLES LIKE “MUST-TRY UNDER-THE-RADAR RAMEN RESTAURANTS IN PORTLAND” LOOK RIGHT NOW?? CAN WE NOT CATCH ONE BREAK?? DON’T YOU WANT TO CARE ABOUT RESTAURANTS AGAIN???

All right, well, it looks like this Illegal Thing is just going to be another cute tile. Can’t wait for the next one that will inevitably happen in, like, two hours.

More here:

[link:http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/newly-discovered-very-illegal-thing-will-finally-bring-down-trump-or-be-another-cute-tile-in-the-mosaic-of-democracys-demise-i-guess|

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:08 PM

51. Very good!

This reminds me of something that is important. At least I think it's important ......though I note that my children often tell me that the very things I find fascinating and important are usually of absolutely no interest to the vast majority of humanity.

The Founding Fathers, imperfect as they were, intended for the country to make use of impeachment. In fact, there is good reason to believe they anticipated it being used about one time per generation. They knew impeachment does not, when properly done, damage democracy. Quite the opposite: it strengthens the nation.

That said, if Donald Trump is not exactly the type of crook they intended impeachment for, who the fuck is?

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #51)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 05:00 PM

60. He is exactly the type of crook

the founding fathers would have delighted in impeaching.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:41 PM

55. If There Are P Tapes

Will they ever be released? Will the Russians become so annoyed that they do so? Buzz Feed has a tremendous article on Russian corruption and all the assassinations that have been ordered by Putin/Kremlin on those who have crossed/displeased them. If I was our dear leader I wouldn't invite Russians into the Oval and shake hands with them.

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Response to Me. (Reply #55)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 04:58 PM

59. invite Russians into the oval?

Too late he already did. And survived. They must be pleased with their puppet.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #59)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 05:12 PM

62. But They Weren't Unhappy With Him Then

Last edited Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

He had fired the FBI director and (he & they thought) closed down the Russia investigation. He's made a mess of the entire situation now and I bet they're increasingly unhappy.



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Response to Me. (Reply #62)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 05:42 PM

63. In this instance,

there are non-Russian players involved, that apparently have the actual tape of Trump urinating upon the two prostitutes. Not everyone is as pleased with Trump -- and his son-in-law -- as Putin is. I wouldn't be surprised if that tape is on the internet by late summer.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #63)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:25 PM

66. 5 Eyes Type Of Thing?

and have 'we' seen it?

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Response to Me. (Reply #66)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 08:16 PM

69. At least one agent of FVEY,

from my understanding. ButI think the original is in the hands of a banker who used to do business in the Ukraine, and sections near the Middle East. I do not believe that this person & associates believe they've gotten a return on their investments in Jared and Donnie Two-Scoops.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #69)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 08:43 PM

72. Blackmail?

Those guys play rough. Boy if I was 45 & Jared I'd be terrified, my guess is they've played fast and loose and are out of their league.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #63)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:45 PM

67. From your mouth to God's ears

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Response to Me. (Reply #62)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:03 PM

64. Senate nearly unanimously voted to

increase sanctions against Russia and give Congress the power to review any White House attempts to roll them back.

Vlad must be very unhappy with his new puppet.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #64)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:23 PM

65. That's What I'm Thinking

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 02:35 PM

54. Once Again!

So I will kick and R while I can

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Response to Me. (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 08:17 PM

70. Thanks, Me.

I still get a kick out of writing that!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 05:11 PM

61. Good discussion. I'd like to see the issue of vote integrity be addressed to the DNC.

A coordinated lobbying to get them to address this all important issue. I do not know what the remedy is at this moment. Perhaps someone with knowledge of what the options are to get elections on paper ballots in the different states. I know it will not be easy in red states. But I think an awareness campaign that focuses on this issue is critical. For those of us with a prominent dem state party, like Va has, lobbying to them as well. We should get Indivisible involved as well as the ACLU. Lobbying of candidates on dem tickets to address this issue as well. I am tired of us losing advantages on a state level and not having dems in office take this issue on.

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Response to 58Sunliner (Reply #61)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 08:21 PM

71. Good points.

I like the ACLU. Also, the Center for Constitutional Rights. (An old associate's son worked there.) I think that the issues involving gerrymandering should be a focus. Until they are resolved, the other voting rights denials are going to continue.

People in those states most impacted should be doing a few things: First, registering voters (focus on those marginalized the most, such as low-income and youth); lobbying their party leadership to continue to bring legal cases; and replacing leadership that is not responding to them.

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