God damn it Hillary Clinton should be President right now.

[Botany]

If it is shown that Russia & the Republicans flipped the vote to instal Trump
then Hillary should be placed into the White House and the guilty parties should
be put into prison.


It was coup and we had treason.

[R B Garr]

1. Yes. We missed out. I'm listening to her audio book and reading it

again (Hard Choices), which is making me even more sad for our country that such a smart and informed person is not leading us, but instead was smeared beyond decency from every direction. Trump couldn't dialogue a tiny fraction of her national and global knowledge. He should be forced to read her book and take a quiz afterwards. We need the smart people back.

[Botany]

3. What saddens me is the level of hate that was sold to a number of Americans about ...

..... the Clintos for the past 25+ years. I had a customer tell me straight up that
Hillary had somebody murdered in order to hide something and people all know
that because that is the truth but the liberal media keeps it covered up. BTW
The Clinton Foundation pays off the liberal media too.

[R B Garr]

6. Exactly, and that troll who just posted on this thread spread more of the

lies and out-of-context smears about her from almost 40 years ago now. Just a quick Google showed what they posted was false, but that doesn't stop them, and it comes from all directions. It's sheer insanity.

The Clinton's main wrongdoing is that they managed to get Bill elected in a time where the GOP owned the talking points landscape decades ago. He had a strong economic message, much of what is being shadowed now by less brave politicians who couldn't have competed with him back then. He left this country with a surplus, which should have been handed off to Al Gore -- of the global climate revolution. Both were very brave politicians for their time period. Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich. Bill Clinton left a surplus, a huge success which stole all the GOP smears about liberals being tax and spend. He paved the way for future, idealistic Democrats to run with what he left them, but they gave it away to the Bush Iraq war retreads who wiped out the surplus, all for some absolutely dishonest equivalency lies.

The Clinton's were investigated for things they supposedly did 25 years prior. Imagine any other politician now being investigated for every little transaction they did 25 years ago. It is truly insane how much they have been dumped on. They are not perfect, but they beat the Republicans at their own game, and the alt-left doesn't even realize that.

[Turbineguy]

5. Yes. She should She'd be on her third or fourth impeachment trial by now.

The GOP would destroy the country going after her.

No, this is going very well. Trump is doing a fine job of proving Obama correct and destroying himself.

[Initech]

7. We should also get a real SCOTUS justice too.

Fuck you, Mitch!

[ProudLib72]

8. Yes, we should; however, this is a good test

to expose the weaknesses of the system and build it stronger when it's all over and Dems are back in power.

If HRC was president, Faux Nooze would still have the highest ratings, angry assholes would still be plotting, Russia would still be hacking, and we would still be battling against voter suppression. I choose to view this as a period to take stock of all these problems and come up with solutions.

[ismnotwasm]

11. Russia is still hacking. We still have voter suppression

It exposed how many bigoted people there are, and the lengths they'll go to deny this as well as benefit from it. I choose to view this period as time in political fucking hell.

Glad about Faux though.

[ProudLib72]

35. That's the point

It's still going on, and we are learning more about it now than ever. It was going on for years before, and it was buried.

Yeah, it's political hell right now, but at least we have begun to pinpoint the problem areas.

[David__77]

9. Now, there's 2020.

We can also work to take congress and force out the president and Vice President.

[Fritz Walter]

26. Spilt milk

We Democrats -- and Independents -- must focus on flipping the House (and possibly the Senate) in 2018, and then selecting the absolute best candidate for POTUS in 2020.

"Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda" is not a solid foundation for a successful platform.

We must continue to actively resist 45 and his ilk in the meantime. And that includes ensuring that Putin and his army of cyber-orcs never interfere with our system of fair and free elections, ever again.

But dwelling on what might-have-been only serves the purposes of our opponents, and that will further marginalize Democrats, Progressives and others who did not vote for the mangled apricot hellbeast.

FOCUS.

[vi5]

31. I agree, but good luck with that....

Reading DU, I sometimes think this is all more about revenge than it is saving the country.

I can't tell if people honestly believe that somehow if Trump is impeached or any of this is proven, that Hillary will be installed as POTUS or if they are just acting like that.

Go as far down the chain as you want and we have a far right wingnut taking the office. Our only hope is to flip Congress and state houses and gain some semblance of control back.

[Fritz Walter]

32. Excellent point

As long as state legislatures draw congressional district lines, Gerrymandering will continue. And -- unless the judiciary invalidates that blatant partisan abuse of the electoral system -- a Congressional- and Presidential-only approach will not yield the results we need to make long-term change to our nation's governance.

[vi5]

33. We need to start thinking locally....

..Especially since the pattern seems to be taking 10 steps backward with a Republican president, and then only taking 5 steps forward with a Democratic one.

And we keep being told "But Red States tho....." which is a fair enough point but then when the best we get in Blue states are folks like Cuomo and the "independent Dem Caucus" in NY and now soon to be Murphy in NJ (who is fine but is also not going to even come close to pushing against any status quo).....if we're not allowed to push at the national level for fear of sending our current Dems to the fainting couch at the incivility of it all then we have to do so locally.

[pirateshipdude]

10. I agree. Historical first woman President. Eom

[onetexan]

12. AGREE

The Repugs couldn't stand having a woman, much less Hillary, in the WH. That's why they were willing to hold up such an ignominious candidate.

[maddiemom]

13. We need an amendment to the Constitution, or SOMETHING...

to make sure this type situation is covered, whether we get rid of the electoral college or not (we should). It's happened twice to the Democratic candidate in just sixteen years-- the popular vote winner loses the electoral college, and hence the presidency. Florida, Jeb and the Supreme Court were bad enough, but now we've got foreign intervention and a president who is unarguably violating the emoluments clause, and clearly tried to obstruct justice. The Republicans would NEVER have put up with it in 2000, and were gearing up to fight if the results went the other way. In 2016 they either never expected Trump to win, or were secure in knowing it was "in the bag" for Trump. Trump's base may be in the minority, but they're loud and often tend to be violent. Imagine their reaction if Hillary were installed in her rightful place? To coin a phrase: (no, I won't go there)...

[INdemo]

14. Hell yes she should be but what really pisses me off

is the fact that Democratic leaders like Pelosi and Schumer no doubt probably knew this and did nothing about it.
The same thing as 2000 and 2004 and 2014...What the hell.Did they figure there would be a revolt if they as Democrats protested these results?
We all know what would happen if Democrats pulled this shit...
I think the same thing will happen in District 6 in Ga. because nothing has been done to stand up to/against the voter suppression created by the Republican candidate there.

[bbgrunt]

18. the fact that the Dems haven't made this an issue is eye-opening.

[Not Ruth]

27. Where do the 2018 candidates stand on this?

[LiberalLovinLug]

22. I don't get it either

Do they really think they will lose votes if they stand up and shout more loudly that the election was stolen? That this is intolerable? That this is an illegitimate president?
Sickened to watch them slide away meekly after 2000, and 2004 even after proof of election fraud. Now its all "we have to wait until the all the facts come in before we say anything" usual politispeak from Nancy P.

Why not take a page out of Republican's playbook and absolutely go over the top. Shout out "Stolen Election!". Shout out "traitors to our democratic system!" And while they are at it shout out "Paper ballots only for the next election!". That is the tone and language that the GOP have opened up on everybody. They will continue to use it. Brash statements, only for them usually false, like "The shooting of Scalise was Obama's fault!". They get headlines and feed their base red meat all the time. Democrats must enter the door that is opened up no matter how distastful it is. Yes, we'd like everyone to hold hands and sing Kumbiya, and for awhile there with Obama in office with his wonderful family, we could delude ourselves that a large majority of Americans appreciated such restrained respect and decency despite what we heard on Fox noise and idiots like Trump.

Why don't we, (or rather some highly respected Democrats) go "too far"? Have some cutting talking points and repeat them ad nauseum. "Stolen supreme court member who should resign if he has any morals" "Traitors in our midst that side with a foreign authoritarian criminal government to weaken our democracy!", even "Hillary is the rightful President and she should be installed right now" It shouldn't matter if its "realistic" or not. They are talking points to make Republicans on the defensive. They never have to stumble and mutter and be flustered with some unproven (but probable) accusation and demands because Democrats shy away from going low when they go low. Everything should be brought up: "A family values party that has a president who's wife detests him and only reluctantly lives with him". And never let them forget "A politician that thinks because he is a big star he can walk right up to a woman and kiss her, and then grab her by her her privates"

[Iplayoneontv]

15. The campaign against her. I liked the Clinton presidency.

I actually sat down and read what Travelgate was about because I was never able to figure it out while it was going on because it made no sense. Turns out that was because it made no fucking sense.

Like whitewater and all of the other shit.

It saddens me. Al Gore won the popular vote and the electoral college vote. They talked about the plans they had for moving forward with green technology. I just think we'd be in different world right now.

[sandensea]

16. And this makes TWICE in just 16 years.

I remember reading in 2000 that international observers warned that if Bush was allowed get away with his heist, he, and probably future GOP candidates, would try it again and again.

You can imagine how our lamestream media laughed.

[Botany]

19. 3 times in 16 years

2000, 2004, & 2016

[sandensea]

20. Thank you.

I almost forgot 2004 and Ken Blackbox.

[LittleGirl]

17. If anyone

thinks that the Russians did all of the hacking and then just stopped short of changing votes total...well, I have ocean front property to sell you in AZ.

[Botany]

21. The Russians were into 39 states

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141797847#post4

[LittleGirl]

24. yes they were. hence my post above ;-) eom

[mythology]

29. To believe what you do, you'd have to believe that every Democratic official is in on it

There is absolutely no evidence at all that any votes were changed. None.

These unsubstantiated claims are no different that Republicans claiming in person voter fraud changes elections. There is no evidence of that either.

Evidence and facts matter.

[SoCalMusicLover]

37. Most Democratic "Officials" Are Too Dumb To Notice

Or they, like you, think it's so unlikely and unbelievable, that they choose not to even go there, lest they be labeled some sort of conspiracy nut, and perhaps lose their position.

And I'm sure there are some Democrats who knew exactly what went on, but for some reason choose not to do anything, again...because they would be destroyed by the other side.

[LittleGirl]

38. Facts matter and

we do NOT use paper ballots. So we will never know if, in fact, the results are valid and until we do....

and in 2004, the IP address of a server in OH was changed approx at 1am local time and suddenly the next morning we have re-elected Bush. Really?

I have been in the IT business for 20 yrs (and retired) so I know how networks work. I know IT down to the security level. The results of this election stink to high heaven and if you can't smell it, then I'm sorry for you. I'm just going with the facts. Yes there is no evidence and JFK was killed when I was 4 and I won't even live long enough for those 'facts' to be unclassified.

He's not my President and no one can convince me otherwise.

[SoCalMusicLover]

36. I've Been Saying This Too

Great minds think alike.

They spent months and years researching and testing, but on the day that actually counts, they let whatever happens happen.

Since after another few repub administrations of climate change deniers, AZ WILL be ocean front property....I've got some ocean view property in KS for sale, if anyone thinks the computers and tabulators were not hacked on election day itself.

[LittleGirl]

39. Thank you

I posted a response to another poster above. Cheers.

[erpowers]

23. Yes

I went to her website and read her ideas during the election and I liked most of her ideas. I am now reading Stronger Together (her campaign book) and I think she had great ideas. If she could have gotten her agenda through things would have gotten better in this country. She was such a better candidate than Donald Trump. I think if the people on the left who were angry at her had read her idea they may have realized how great of a candidate she was and voted for her.

[caballojm]

25. This whole thing makes me sick and keeps me up at night.

The worst thing is that NOTHING is being done to stop them from stealing more elections at every level.

[First Speaker]

28. If the shoe were on the other foot, the Repubs would be calling for a military intervention...

...and everybody fucking knows it. They certainly wouldn't be making pious noises about "2018" or "2020". If the election was literally stolen--if votes were actually flipped--then we had a goddam coup. I don't know what the answer is, what our response should be. But we are in uncharted waters, constitutionally, and if we don't at least acknowledge that then we--the liberals, the Dem party--are worse than useless.

[videohead5]

30. There Are People

That believe the Clintons have murdered dozens of people and the Clinton foundation is a big slush fund that they take money from.it looks to me if they really are murdering people they sure did leave out the most important ones like Monica and Paula etc.both the Clintons and their foundation have filed tax returns but you still can't get these right wing nuts to believe anything they don't want to.

[Cha]

34. Damn Straight.

[we can do it]

40. Yes. And I don't want to hear that's not possible.

This disaster was not addressed in the constitution. Anyone involved in the coup needs to go to prison and the rightful president takes office.

[liberalla]

41. Yes, 45 is illegitimate and has no right to govern. All his decisions and choices are illegitimate...

including gorsuch. All that he's done was done illegally and fraudulently, and as such needs to be corrected. ASAP. (IMO)