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If I don't think Nancy "Impeachment is off the table" Pelosi is a good leader for the Democrats (Original Post) Chasstev365 Jun 2017 OP
It's been said, but you missed it: shenmue Jun 2017 #1
You're usng the far too strong "hate" word? Seriously? vkkv Jun 2017 #3
I am not in middle school, thank you shenmue Jun 2017 #8
Do you think trying to take down a Democratic leader publicly is effective? PubliusEnigma Jun 2017 #68
Well now, we wouldn't be 'divided' if we ALL agreed that Pelosi should go - vkkv Jun 2017 #74
all of your arguments are absurd. JHan Jun 2017 #78
That's a very strong and clear point. vkkv Jun 2017 #81
you haven't offered anything of substance. JHan Jun 2017 #83
Are you seriously calling yourself an intellectual? NastyRiffraff Jun 2017 #96
Oh, wow. An intellectual. n/t kcr Jun 2017 #98
Are you even a Democrat? PubliusEnigma Jun 2017 #107
Thank you. sheshe2 Jun 2017 #24
Well said. Nt NCTraveler Jun 2017 #49
+1000. stonecutter357 Jun 2017 #61
I couldn't have said it better. Thank you. George II Jun 2017 #80
Love it! Especially "purity ponies". EllieBC Jun 2017 #86
That's absolute horseshit... WoonTars Jun 2017 #101
Thank you ! vkkv Jun 2017 #2
Ah the prosecutor recently elected to Long Island open seat delisen Jun 2017 #20
What you posted is incomplete, you chose only the COUPLE of negative things.. vkkv Jun 2017 #75
in these treacherous times it is good to have her - she knows how to work the system effectively nt msongs Jun 2017 #4
It doesn't, I support Pelosi and I'm a woman. chowder66 Jun 2017 #5
Or maybe US Presidents might have stopped allowing the military to commit war crimes? Kentonio Jun 2017 #36
Maybe but the Republicans are so bad at governing and lawmaking chowder66 Jun 2017 #111
I like her leadership and think she is right for DEMS! BTW thanks for caring so much Madam45for2923 Jun 2017 #6
Did you think this before Ossoff's loss? leftstreet Jun 2017 #7
You haven't missed them shenmue Jun 2017 #9
When I logged in this PM I was blown away by the sudden explosion of moonscape Jun 2017 #26
Will any of you tell us what Pelosi did to wasupaloopa Jun 2017 #10
Nancy didn't do anything brutus smith Jun 2017 #54
That makes no sense. We don't pick our leaders on the basis wasupaloopa Jun 2017 #66
I totally agree with you. This could be another Russian job - to take out Nancy. The Wielding Truth Jun 2017 #88
Agree Repubs have everything to gain by this messaging lunasun Jun 2017 #91
She got old. Demit Jun 2017 #59
That's a big white hairy irony ain't it. nt fleabiscuit Jun 2017 #84
Men are allowed to age. EllieBC Jun 2017 #87
The issue I have with her impeachment statement was in regards to 2007 Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #11
As a feminist zentrum Jun 2017 #12
BINGO! Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #14
I missed your anti-Pelosi threads before the loss yesterday in Ga. bigtree Jun 2017 #13
So you've read all 3500 + posts of mine? Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #15
Many of us have been saying it's time for a change in Leadership certainly since November liskddksil Jun 2017 #18
Yup. nt zentrum Jun 2017 #108
LOL NurseJackie Jun 2017 #16
;) sheshe2 Jun 2017 #25
I think Debbie Wasserman Shultz was a trainwreck DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #17
Some people are all over GD trying to pretend like Pelosi and DWS are the same. They're not. Warren DeMontague Jun 2017 #22
Ugh Lotusflower70 Jun 2017 #29
Would you prefer Sen Hatch for president? bresue Jun 2017 #19
That is an untenable strategy Orrex Jun 2017 #46
Can't argue that Dump is toxic...and either way of it playing out is not going to be a good fix! bresue Jun 2017 #50
Sadly, you are 100% correct Orrex Jun 2017 #55
Partly, I feel they haven't spoken out is they are afraid of his retaliation... bresue Jun 2017 #60
This is what I am talking about brutus smith Jun 2017 #104
I do. I do think she's a good leader. Warren DeMontague Jun 2017 #21
Support her or not, where are we now with the worst POTUS in history spiderpig Jun 2017 #23
The house has been gerrymandered since 2010 when Greens and other disgruntled supposed progressives Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #44
Well said! mcar Jun 2017 #69
So what were the magic beans that would've turned solid R districts blue? Demit Jun 2017 #64
I DON'T think people "who distort and misrepresent what Nancy Pelosi actually said", still_one Jun 2017 #27
I can't see how the alternative would be better. David__77 Jun 2017 #28
It doesn't. I support Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris meadowlander Jun 2017 #30
Her job is not to get our our message and she runs are side of the House Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #43
She used to be a more powerful speaker janterry Jun 2017 #56
Says Who Me. Jun 2017 #94
It might seem like hyperbole janterry Jun 2017 #97
You Did Say IMHO Me. Jun 2017 #99
Hmmm Lotusflower70 Jun 2017 #31
It is the GOP and some unwise folks from our side are piling on... I will note thought there is Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #42
You're talking to an identity politics fan club here Azathoth Jun 2017 #32
I'm unclear - are you saying DU (both pro-and anti-Pelosi) is the identity politics fan club muriel_volestrangler Jun 2017 #37
It is a waste of time to impeach when you can't get a conviction...and look what Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #39
I completely disagree with Nancy as being oiyl and I despise the word establishment...there are no Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #41
Sanders was opposed to Bush Impeachment also JI7 Jun 2017 #33
The % of people thinking to themselves "I'd Vote Democrat If Nancy Pelosi Would Just Stand Up ... mr_lebowski Jun 2017 #34
While I'm inclined to agree with you, Kathleen Rice made a razor sharp point that OnDoutside Jun 2017 #48
so why people who voted for Bush voted for Trump and other republicans because bush wasn't impeached JI7 Jun 2017 #35
Why would you impeach if there not enough votes in the Senate first of all and why are you still at Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #38
I wonder why knowing you don't have enough votes to pass something so you betsuni Jun 2017 #40
I agree...it is a waste of time and money...I wonder how Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #45
Wow, Tim Ryan and Kathleen Rice giving it double barrels on MJ this morning, against Nancy Pelosi.nt OnDoutside Jun 2017 #47
Yes, that. And giving absolutely NO solutions, new messages, or proposed policies. nikibatts Jun 2017 #51
Dennis Kucinich needs to be our leader. NCTraveler Jun 2017 #52
Lol! -nt Bradical79 Jun 2017 #106
I think the Pelosi "problem" stems from one thing: GOP advertising. Vinca Jun 2017 #53
Agreed Va Lefty Jun 2017 #57
Can you even vote for Nancy Pelosi ? stonecutter357 Jun 2017 #58
Of course I would: I just don't think she should be the Speaker or our leader Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #62
if you don't live in her district you can't vote for her. stonecutter357 Jun 2017 #63
Sorry; misunderstood Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #65
Nancy Pelosi is the "scapegoat du jour" just now. MineralMan Jun 2017 #67
+1,574,384 I'm to tired to write a rant right now. TheBlackAdder Jun 2017 #110
WELL fox /fake news is regurgitating this shit right now... stonecutter357 Jun 2017 #70
objective accomplished I guess. JHan Jun 2017 #73
Yep lots convinced lunasun Jun 2017 #93
you leave us to reach a conclusion based on your lack of evidence.. LanternWaste Jun 2017 #71
Yes, the GOP loves the fact that so called democrats attack an effective Dem leader.. JHan Jun 2017 #72
Impeachment is off the table for Trump and Pence until we take the House in 2018.... virtualobserver Jun 2017 #76
Another trashed thread. :Click: demmiblue Jun 2017 #77
First off, your quoted text has been taken WAY out of context. Why don't you use.... George II Jun 2017 #79
That is YOUR opinion! She said it and when they had power did nothing serious! Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #82
I don't appreciate misrepresentations in order to take a shot at one of our party Leaders. George II Jun 2017 #85
Trump agrees with you...look how he tries to get the Dems to rid themselves of Nancy Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #89
Wow: you stoop to comparing me to Benedict Donald because I dare to disagree with leadership Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #90
Well, I don't agree with Republicans...just mentioned that Donald feel as you do. Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #109
Pelosi isn't getting it done. I would vote for here again for Congress, but not as Speaker. (if it vkkv Jun 2017 #92
I feel the same about her as I did about Harry Reid KTM Jun 2017 #95
"Pelosi is a great senator" LexVegas Jun 2017 #100
Yes, my bad. KTM Jun 2017 #103
When the GOP or Putin read these threads, they become tickled pink. Eliot Rosewater Jun 2017 #102
Sometimes, imputing of sexism does strike me as an automatic, or stimulus-response type reaction. David__77 Jun 2017 #105

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
1. It's been said, but you missed it:
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:19 PM
Jun 2017

She is the subject of this sudden wave of hate after decades of service to the country.

We are infested with purity ponies who have buckets of criticism for women but curiously never the same for their favorite men.

Including the man who lost the primary.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
3. You're usng the far too strong "hate" word? Seriously?
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:26 PM
Jun 2017

We're talking about effective leadership for the future of the Democratic Party here.. not middle-school he said/she said.

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
8. I am not in middle school, thank you
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:33 PM
Jun 2017

So stop.

I've been nearly banned because of people like you today.

A lot of people do like Rep. Pelosi. We defend her because she has served the country for many years.

I have nothing for which to apologize.

PubliusEnigma

(1,583 posts)
68. Do you think trying to take down a Democratic leader publicly is effective?
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:32 AM
Jun 2017

Unless, of course, the effect you're looking for is to help #BenedictDonald divide our Party.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
74. Well now, we wouldn't be 'divided' if we ALL agreed that Pelosi should go -
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:10 AM
Jun 2017

now would we ?

It's always the 'other guy', right ?

That's not leadership or patriotism or progressive.

EllieBC

(2,990 posts)
86. Love it! Especially "purity ponies".
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:40 AM
Jun 2017

They are forever unhappy. No candidate will ever be good enough.

WoonTars

(694 posts)
101. That's absolute horseshit...
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:03 PM
Jun 2017

....she was terrible under Bush..but we can't say that because she's a woman? Fuck that noise.

I said Harry Reid was just as useless, as was anyone else that didn't want to go after Lt Awol....so what does that make me?

Spare me the misogyny bullshit for something more deserving....

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
2. Thank you !
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:24 PM
Jun 2017




"We need leadership change," New York Democratic Rep. ( and known MISOGYNIST) KATHLEEN RICE told CNN

delisen

(6,042 posts)
20. Ah the prosecutor recently elected to Long Island open seat
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:59 PM
Jun 2017

and now an expert on southern politics.

I've tried to keep an open mind on Rice however but some of her work had bothered me in the past.

I am willing to be educated on Rice.

from Wikipedia:

Questions on Rice’s early prosecution cases

The Kings County district attorney’s prosecution of Antowine Butts for double homicide imploded and ended in an acquittal in 2000, but not before Butts spent two years in a Rikers Island jail cell. After the case unraveled, Butts alleged that he was a victim of prosecutorial misconduct in a civil rights lawsuit that was settled with New York City.

Among those named in that suit: Kathleen Rice, the architect of the case against Butts. Despite that high profile, Rice has largely escaped attention — including during the current campaign — for starting her career in an office in which prosecutors are alleged to have put some innocent people behind bars with coerced confessions, bogus witness statements, coached lineup identifications and other tactics.[26]
 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
75. What you posted is incomplete, you chose only the COUPLE of negative things..
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:21 AM
Jun 2017

I wouldn't call that being a progressive, or liberal, or even thoughtful.

Here's more on Rice, she sounds like a liberal bull dog, a go-getter, someone with a spine unlike the Congresswoman I voted for every year when I lived in S.F.



Rice was elected Nassau County District Attorney in 2005, winning by 7,500 votes to become the first female to hold the position. She defeated 31-year incumbent Denis Dillon, who had generally won reelection easily, even after switching his affiliation from Democratic to Republican in 1989. Rice was the first serious opponent that Dillon had faced since his first run in 1974.[5]

Rice was re-elected in 2009 and 2013.
Tenure and issues

Jesse Friedman case

In 2010, Rice ordered the review of a 1987 case in which Arnold Friedman and his son, Jesse, pleaded guilty to sexually abusing young boys in their Great Neck, Long Island home. Rice formed a panel of outside experts – including the Innocence Project’s Barry Scheck – to examine whether or not Jesse Friedman had wrongfully confessed.
In a 172-page report released in July 2013, investigators found that Friedman had not been wrongfully convicted.[35]

Drunken and drugged driving

In 2006, Rice, the "state's toughest DWI prosecutor,"[6] declared her first major policy initiative to be an “assault on the drunk driving epidemic.” She lowered the blood-alcohol level at which you could take a plea bargain,[7] supported Leandra’s Law, and charged with murder some drunk drivers who killed their victims.[8]

Reform efforts

In September 2011, Rice’s office arrested seven students after uncovering an SAT cheating ring on Long Island.[9] When this case led to the discovery of a wider-spread cheating scandal, Rice worked with the College Board, who administers the test, to update security standards to halt cheating in the future. This effort sparked other test administrators, like that which gives the ACT, to update their standards as well.[10]

Rice has also received credit for teen education programs geared towards cyber bullying, drug use, texting and dangerous driving.[11][12][13][14]

In 2007, Rice’s office, Nassau County and Hempstead police led a counter-assault on Terrace Avenue, a major drug haven and crime-ridden street in Long Island’s Hempstead Village. Through a combination of zero-tolerance enforcement for repeat and violent offenders, and social-service based jail diversion for nonviolent and first time offenders, crime has been reduced in the area.[15]

In 2008, following the trampling death of a Walmart employee at one of the retailer’s Black Friday sales events, Rice encouraged Walmart to upgrade its security protocols at its nearly 100 New York stores.[16]

In 2012, Rice came out in favor of decriminalizing small amounts of “plain view” marijuana.[17] Rice has also supported efforts to allow some citizens to seal prior low-level, non-violent convictions in the hopes of improving their chances of obtaining employment.[18]

Rice was chosen by Governor Andrew Cuomo to be a member of the Moreland Commission on Utility Storm Preparation and Response, a panel tasked with investigating the failures of the Long Island Power Authority (LIPA) following Hurricane Sandy of October 2012. The panel recommended that LIPA be replaced by a private, investor-owned company and that the Public Service Commission, which has regulation authority, be given more power to penalize and fine poor-performing utility companies.

Rice supports the “Raise the Age NY” initiative to treat non-violent teen offenders as juveniles in the criminal justice system.[19]

Guns, gangs, and violent crime

Kathleen Rice at a press conference, announcing the arrest of four ticket vending machine scammers (2013)

Rice implemented gun buy-back programs in some of the county’s most crime-plagued areas, which removed more than 2,000 guns from the streets.[20] She also spoke out in favor of Governor Andrew Cuomo’s gun control legislation,[21] and she created the office’s first ever gun prosecution unit.[22] Rice announced in early 2011 a major prosecution of 9 gun dealers and gun store employees arrested by police in an undercover operation investigating alleged illegal assault weapons.[23] This was the second arrest for Martin Tretola, one of the gunshop owners. He was previously arrested on firearms related violations in 2007. Subsequently, in 2012, a federal jury delivered a verdict rejecting the charges of Nassau County and District Attorney Rice for the 2007 arrest and awarded Tretola 3 million dollars in compensatory damages and 2 million dollars in punitive damages.[24] This judgment was later reduced to 1.3 million dollars in total upon appeal.[25]

Questions on Rice’s early prosecution cases

The Kings County district attorney’s prosecution of Antowine Butts for double homicide imploded and ended in an acquittal in 2000, but not before Butts spent two years in a Rikers Island jail cell. After the case unraveled, Butts alleged that he was a victim of prosecutorial misconduct in a civil rights lawsuit that was settled with New York City.

Among those named in that suit: Kathleen Rice, the architect of the case against Butts. Despite that high profile, Rice has largely escaped attention — including during the current campaign — for starting her career in an office in which prosecutors are alleged to have put some innocent people behind bars with coerced confessions, bogus witness statements, coached lineup identifications and other tactics.[26]

In April 2013, Rice announced the arrest of 18 members of the “Rollin’ 60’s” gang, an “ultra-violent” subset of the Crips. Rice charged these defendants with crimes ranging from attempted murder of a police officer, to assault and robbery, to gun and drug sales.[27]

Public corruption

Among those Rice has charged and convicted of corruption include a deputy police commissioner,[28] a Long Beach City Council member,[29] former Nassau County legislators,[30] and several town building department employees.[31]
Rice in 2013

In July 2013, Kathleen Rice was appointed by Governor Cuomo to be one of three co-chairs of the Moreland Commission on Public Corruption. The work of the commission is currently ongoing.[32]

Rice formed Nassau’s first-ever Medicaid and public assistance fraud unit, which has since secured millions of dollars in restitution for Nassau taxpayers.[33]

DA's Office gender pay gap and part-time employees

Rice has reformed the recruiting, hiring and promotional practices of her office. She eliminated a gender pay gap that had previously been greater than 30%. Rice developed an aimed at offering flex-and part-time work schedules to those needing to care for a family member or a personal situation. Half of the attorneys and management in Rice’s office are women.[34]

Jesse Friedman case

In 2010, Rice ordered the review of a 1987 case in which Arnold Friedman and his son, Jesse, pleaded guilty to sexually abusing young boys in their Great Neck, Long Island home. Rice formed a panel of outside experts – including the Innocence Project’s Barry Scheck – to examine whether or not Jesse Friedman had wrongfully confessed.
In a 172-page report released in July 2013, investigators found that Friedman had not been wrongfully convicted.[35]

chowder66

(9,054 posts)
5. It doesn't, I support Pelosi and I'm a woman.
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:28 PM
Jun 2017

I was disappointed to hear Impeachment was off the table but I believe the reason they did that was because it would set a precedent for the Republicans to go after Democrats forever. I think it was a calculated move not because they didn't really want to but because it would open a pandora's box and especially because a Democratic president was likely to be nominated in a time of war..and was.

Republicans would then find every reason to impeach for war crimes. Dems impeaching the Repub Potus and the Repubs impeaching the Dem Potus for war crimes however big or small and we know that the Republicans would go after crumbs. It would go on back and forth with no end in sight and would have been brutal to the governing processes. No business of value would have been possible.

We are too polarized to withstand that and laws would not be changed until that polarization thinned out.

chowder66

(9,054 posts)
111. Maybe but the Republicans are so bad at governing and lawmaking
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:34 PM
Jun 2017

that all they really know is campaigning and vindictiveness.

It's been their primary focus so much so that they have become that 'employee that shows up to work and fucks off every day but doesn't get fired and makes more than you'.

And they are good at it since it IS all they do and it shows every day. It shows their pettiness and it shows they don't know the first thing about how to craft a bill.

They stick around Washington to obstruct and abuse every nook and cranny of our laws, rules, precedents, etc to justify a salary.

They are the ones who have broken our system. They will always be a problem until something major changes like a majority of Republicans starting to give a shit about our nation.

 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
6. I like her leadership and think she is right for DEMS! BTW thanks for caring so much
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:28 PM
Jun 2017

and so sincerely about Impeaching Trump!

leftstreet

(36,098 posts)
7. Did you think this before Ossoff's loss?
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:28 PM
Jun 2017

I'm genuinely curious because I haven't seen threads questioning Pelosi's leadership until today

(Unless I've missed them)

moonscape

(4,673 posts)
26. When I logged in this PM I was blown away by the sudden explosion of
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 01:59 AM
Jun 2017

posts/threads, re Pelosi. Honestly, I thought Macedonian bots had ramped up or something.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
10. Will any of you tell us what Pelosi did to
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:41 PM
Jun 2017

deserve this negativity and what is your plan to make a change?

It is so easy blow smoke up everyone's ass but much harder to create a plan to do something else.

 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
54. Nancy didn't do anything
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:45 AM
Jun 2017

to make herself a lightening rod for the repubs. But, if we want to win in 2018, we need someone else, preferably someone who isn't tied to Nancy.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
66. That makes no sense. We don't pick our leaders on the basis
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:08 AM
Jun 2017

of how much the Repubs like them or not.

We want effective leaders no matter what Repubs think of them.

I would say Repubs would hate effective Dems thus the hate for Pelosi.

The Wielding Truth

(11,411 posts)
88. I totally agree with you. This could be another Russian job - to take out Nancy.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:49 AM
Jun 2017

Support our good leaders. IMO, Nancy is the best in the House.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
11. The issue I have with her impeachment statement was in regards to 2007
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:46 PM
Jun 2017

Stating impeachment was off the table was one of the stupidest things an American politician as ever said! If crimes are committed, impeachment should never be off the table!

Even if that was the Democratic position, why the hell would you publicly say it? It was like a cop telling a criminal, "well I am not going to arrrest you, no matter what you may have done."

Bush and Cheney committed treason and are war criminals for lying us into a war that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. If that is not a high crime, I don't know what is.

Being so wimpy just embolden the Trump crime family in 2016. We need to be ruthless against these evil men who are destroying the USA and she is just not that person!

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
12. As a feminist
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:48 PM
Jun 2017

....and a woman, I see no misogyny whatsoever in your post.

The Iraq war was such an evil unnecessary disaster that's brought us a world of hurt ever since. Impeachment may not have worked but there are some things bigger than political calculation. "Off the table" shuts down the investigation and the conversation that needed to happen on a national level about that hideous, illegal war Bush lied us into.

 

liskddksil

(2,753 posts)
18. Many of us have been saying it's time for a change in Leadership certainly since November
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:52 PM
Jun 2017

if not before. I admire Speaker Pelosi's contributions, but after 6 years of not having won a single competitive election as a party it's time for a massive change in operations.

 

DefenseLawyer

(11,101 posts)
17. I think Debbie Wasserman Shultz was a trainwreck
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:51 PM
Jun 2017

A horrible chairperson and a horrible centrist congresswoman. I guess that makes me a misogynist also. I have never criticized a man, ever.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
22. Some people are all over GD trying to pretend like Pelosi and DWS are the same. They're not.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:57 AM
Jun 2017

Why anyone would try and attach Nancy Pelosi's admirable record to DWS's clusterfuck of shit like payday loan defending and voting to send terminally ill cancer patients to federal prison for smoking pot, is beyond me.

Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
29. Ugh
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 02:12 AM
Jun 2017

I can't stand Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Agree with you that she was a horrible chairperson and congresswoman. She mishandled so many different things. Her incompetence knows no bounds.

bresue

(1,007 posts)
19. Would you prefer Sen Hatch for president?
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:53 PM
Jun 2017

Because if it goes down like it is looking like...Pence, McConnell, and Ryan before mid-term elections, we are stuck with Hatch. If we win the house and senate in 2018, we have a chance for a Dem in the white house. I would think that enough would be a plus for waiting a little bit.

Orrex

(63,172 posts)
46. That is an untenable strategy
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:21 AM
Jun 2017

2018 is by no means a sure bet for the Democrats, and I am increasingly confident that Repubs have already stolen that election. And then what happens? We kick the can another two years down the road in hope of retaking the Whitehouse? Then what? 2022? 2024?

Trump is toxic right now and wildly destructive every second he is in office, and he must be impeached. No matter how awful the next asshole in line may be, Trump must be removed from office.

bresue

(1,007 posts)
50. Can't argue that Dump is toxic...and either way of it playing out is not going to be a good fix!
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:28 AM
Jun 2017

But without Mueller's verdict, I cannot see the house impeaching right now.

Orrex

(63,172 posts)
55. Sadly, you are 100% correct
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:55 AM
Jun 2017

In fact, the House's utter lack of motivation to do anything about Trump tells me that they have no fear of consequence, which is what makes me think that they've pre-stolen 2018.

bresue

(1,007 posts)
60. Partly, I feel they haven't spoken out is they are afraid of his retaliation...
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:58 AM
Jun 2017

Which he still holds enough to break a career...a bully with still some power left!

 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
104. This is what I am talking about
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:13 PM
Jun 2017

"What’s more pathetic — Republicans using a scary Nancy Pelosi meme to boost their congressional candidates or Democrats exploiting this meme for personal gain?

A recent article in Politico details the tepid hope of Rep. Steve Stivers (R-Ohio), Chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, that the well-worn path of anti-Pelosi rhetoric will once again be successful as the GOP gears up to defend their House majority.

“I think we’ll see if it works. I believe it still works,” says Stivers, referring to the efficacy of attacks on Pelosi."
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/national-party-news/335619-why-do-both-democrats-and-republicans-suffer-from

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
21. I do. I do think she's a good leader.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:55 AM
Jun 2017

I think people made way too much of that statement at the time 11 years ago, at this point it's beyond ridiculous to keep flogging it like it's some sort of indictment of her leadership.

spiderpig

(10,419 posts)
23. Support her or not, where are we now with the worst POTUS in history
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 01:16 AM
Jun 2017

and we still can't win house seats?

I like Nancy, but she's past her shelf date. Ever since she declared "impeachment is off the table."

We need a gloves-off in-your-face puncher, regardless of gender.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
44. The house has been gerrymandered since 2010 when Greens and other disgruntled supposed progressives
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:00 AM
Jun 2017

totally turned on President Obama and skipped the midterm... He couldn't get single payer and...the GOP took the states as well thanks to unreliable voters who craved purity like heroin...the GOP used the census to gerrymander the House...and it will be very difficult to take back even now. They added voter suppression tactics as well which really hurt us. That is the reality. Later many of the same 'pure' among us bailed on Clinton...electing Trump. And it is beyond ridiculous that the such voters blame everyone but themselves...they talk about money in politics and income inequality...like it is the Democrat's fault...the same voters helped elect Bush in 2000 which lead to the United ruling and the need for big money in politics which they then advised Democrats most earnestly not to accept,but the GOP dark money floods in...they seem to believe some how a lack of money will win races...ah right....multiple wars and death as well as huge tax cuts for the rich came from the Bush presidency.

Tax cuts are very difficult to get rid of and contribute to income inequality. All the things the( for want of a better term) the alt-left claims to hate and blames Democrats for happened because they helped elect Republicans by not voting or voting third party. And I shudder to think what Trump will do. We need experienced leaders to try to mitigate some of the damage. We don't need new leaders, we need a more reliable and loyal voter base...and all the purging in the world won't help until then. Vote Democratic always.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
64. So what were the magic beans that would've turned solid R districts blue?
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 08:10 AM
Jun 2017

Really. Tell me. Walk me through the process of how a new (younger, presumably) House Democratic leader instantly wins Congressional seats in gerrymandered districts.

still_one

(92,061 posts)
27. I DON'T think people "who distort and misrepresent what Nancy Pelosi actually said",
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 02:03 AM
Jun 2017

are misogynists, that doesn't mean I am not going to call their bullshit out when I hear them distorting and taking out of context what Nancy Pelosi was saying

David__77

(23,329 posts)
28. I can't see how the alternative would be better.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 02:04 AM
Jun 2017

Pelosi is not a "fiscal conservative." She has taken progressive issues on many issues back when many Democrats were positioned as "centrists."

If there were an election among house DemoxrRs and there were other candidates for leadership, I can see that this would be a more useful discussion.

meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
30. It doesn't. I support Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 02:13 AM
Jun 2017

and Claire McCaskill and all the other strong articulate Democratic women in the Senate and the House who go out there and actively fight against what's been going on.

Nancy Pelosi, for me, is the person who can't get the mic turned on and wonders if we should have another round of kumbaya in the meantime.

I don't think she should step down because of what happened in Georgia. A 15 point gain in a district like that is a big win for the Democrats.

I think she should step down because she doesn't get our message across effectively and she personifies a kind of bumbly, inarticulate, instant capitulation that drives people away from the party.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
43. Her job is not to get our our message and she runs are side of the House
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:36 AM
Jun 2017

And if she were to step down...the next leader with no experience would let the GOP run over them...is that what you want? The minority leader and speaker will always be unpopular...that is how it goes. She is damn good and those who don't appreciate her can in my book...fuck off...just another attack on Democrats...by those who supposedly have our interests at heart...who often slip up and type in 'their' and not 'our'...not saying you but I am putting these threads and some on ignore...no interest in hearing supposed Democrats trash other Democrats...and it is against TOS as well.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
56. She used to be a more powerful speaker
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:56 AM
Jun 2017

but she is older and a less effective speaker (I mean her public speaking ability
than she was years ago.

I think it's time for new leadership. I want a new face on the party - someone who is more able to communicate to the press. Pelosi did a great job for many years. But all things come and go. She's in her late 70's and the time is right for change. She should help usher in that change, not cling so hard to what used to be. (IMHO, of course!)

Me.

(35,454 posts)
94. Says Who
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:31 AM
Jun 2017

She's in her 70's which doesn't make her stupid or incompetent but experienced. Posts such as this makes it seem like a senior should be declared an invalid person. Ossoff is young and didn't win HIS election. Only he didn't do that not Nancy Pelosi.

And btw, Nancy Pelosi is the best fundraiser the DEms have

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
97. It might seem like hyperbole
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:51 AM
Jun 2017

but I'm not seeing that in what I wrote. Also, as I said - it's IMHO . We'll see how this plays out in the legislature (I'm interested to see how the discussion evolves).

But - as it stands, I'm ready for change. I think change is a good thing,

Me.

(35,454 posts)
99. You Did Say IMHO
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:00 PM
Jun 2017

But you also said...

"She used to be a more powerful speaker

but she is older and a less effective speaker…….She's in her late 70's and the time is right for change"

Obviously, I disagree that she is less effective.

Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
31. Hmmm
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 02:16 AM
Jun 2017

Last edited Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:09 AM - Edit history (2)

I don't think that's necessarily misogynistic. It's just your viewpoint. I do not understand the excessive hate she is getting. I think the GOP are using her as an enemy like they did with Clinton.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
42. It is the GOP and some unwise folks from our side are piling on... I will note thought there is
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:32 AM
Jun 2017

an unseemly amount of hatred directed at the ladies.

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
32. You're talking to an identity politics fan club here
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 02:32 AM
Jun 2017

Not pragmatic voters.

Pelosi is an interesting conundrum. On a technical leadership level, she's great. Under her speakership, we never saw the kind of Keystone Cops clusterfuck that the GOP went through on their first Deathcare attempt. If we're looking solely for someone who can count votes and crack skulls to get a Democratic agenda through, she's our gal. She also comes from a safe and reliably progressive district, which means we would never have to worry about her getting cold feet the instant the GOP feign outrage over something.

On the flip side, she's also a deep establishment insider and as oily and non-genuine as politicians come. (Listen to her answer tough questions; she talks in vague, meaningless, non-committal circles with the best of 'em.) Her refusal to even entertain an impeachment discussion tells me that she's playing the same insider political games every "professional" politician plays: whip votes in the majority, agitate with talking points in the minority, and never do anything that genuinely rocks the boat.

The fact she's been in Washington for decades definitely hurts her image, and by extension, the Democratic House caucus, in this era of anti-Establishment anger. And to be frank, she seems much less charismatic than she used to be. The fan club will hurl every invective in the identity politics book at me, but the simple fact is that charisma and likability are important. Doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman, if your personal numbers aren't good with voters, you're probably gonna drag down the ticket.

With all that said, Speakers and minority leaders are almost always deeply unpopular. They tend to be the most unabashedly partisan of the political leadership class and they wield tremendous power over the country despite being elected by less than 1% of the population. It never hurts to cycle new blood through the party leadership, but blaming our House losses on Pelosi is just comical.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,265 posts)
37. I'm unclear - are you saying DU (both pro-and anti-Pelosi) is the identity politics fan club
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:06 AM
Jun 2017

while the voters are pragmatic; or that "charisma and likability are important" and " if your personal numbers aren't good with voters, you're probably gonna drag down the ticket", meaning the voters aren't pragmatic either?

I don't see her refusal to look at impeachment as "insider political games"; it was pragmatism, knowing that the Republican senators needed to convict Bush by getting two thirds in the Senate just didn't exist.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
39. It is a waste of time to impeach when you can't get a conviction...and look what
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:21 AM
Jun 2017

happened in Wisconsin...had we let that alone, he might have been out in four.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
41. I completely disagree with Nancy as being oiyl and I despise the word establishment...there are no
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:30 AM
Jun 2017

establishment Dems...I don't give a flying fuck about her image. It would in this case where the GOP wields the power and we need every trick in the book to fight them be a mistake to change leader and we don't. If I am to understand her deeply 'partisanship' bothers you...not me. She is exactly what we need...I love Tim Ryan, but he would be forced to cave as he is from Ohio. He is my congressman by the way.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
34. The % of people thinking to themselves "I'd Vote Democrat If Nancy Pelosi Would Just Stand Up ...
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 04:36 AM
Jun 2017

to the GOP by Impeaching Bush!", circa 2007 ... and then turning around and voting FOR Republicans from that point forward, just because Nancy didn't 'stand up to 'em' and 'capitulated' (as some on this thread describe matters)?

I'd say that the % of 'voters' that fall into that realm are something along the lines of 'slim, and none'.

Those people don't f***ing EXIST.

Precisely NOBODY is NOT voting for Democrats, and INSTEAD voting GOP ... simply because Pelosi hasn't been hard enough on the GOP.

It's a stupid concept on it's face.

Don't get me wrong, there's probably people who vote GOP partly cause they 'don't like Nancy Pelosi' (or Hillary, or Gore, or one the Clintons, or the Obama's, etc), sure. But exactly NONE OF THEM would vote entirely differently ... if Pelosi had been more vehemently anti-GOP.

I don't buy it.

OnDoutside

(19,948 posts)
48. While I'm inclined to agree with you, Kathleen Rice made a razor sharp point that
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:23 AM
Jun 2017

"Nancy Pelosi is a fantastic fundraiser for the Democratic Party, but what use is that since we've been losing in the House since 2010 ?"

JI7

(89,239 posts)
35. so why people who voted for Bush voted for Trump and other republicans because bush wasn't impeached
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 04:40 AM
Jun 2017

?

hahhaha

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
38. Why would you impeach if there not enough votes in the Senate first of all and why are you still at
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:13 AM
Jun 2017

it? Nancy is a Democrat and damned effective.

betsuni

(25,376 posts)
40. I wonder why knowing you don't have enough votes to pass something so you
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 06:26 AM
Jun 2017

decide not to waste time money and energy doing a futile Sissyface bolder roll up a mountain is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
45. I agree...it is a waste of time and money...I wonder how
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:16 AM
Jun 2017

many attacking Nancy Pelosi realize how close the GOP is to having a constitutional convention and actually amending the constitution? Do they understand the reality of our situation...and the endless attacks on Democratic leaders and the party itself has caused much of the damage...they bailed in 2000,2004 and 2010 ...all crucial years...but 16 is the worst...I can't imagine the damage that will happen because of this.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
52. Dennis Kucinich needs to be our leader.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:34 AM
Jun 2017

He brought thirty five articles of impeachment to the house floor when Bush was President.

Lead the charge for Kucinich!!!

Vinca

(50,236 posts)
53. I think the Pelosi "problem" stems from one thing: GOP advertising.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:43 AM
Jun 2017

Every mean, nasty ad ties a Democratic candidate to Nancy Pelosi and her "San Francisco values." Sadly, Democrats don't want to step on toes and tell them they're full of shit so we're left with the impression that Nancy is bad. Just the opposite is true and it has nothing to do with gender. She's a fine leader, but maybe we should start allowing younger members of the party to start making their mark. Oh, jeez. Now someone is going to accuse me of ageism. FYI, I'm old.

Va Lefty

(6,252 posts)
57. Agreed
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 07:56 AM
Jun 2017

they will hang that "San Francisco values" tag around every Democrat as long as she is in line for Speaker. Is that fair? No. But we live in a decidedly unfair world--see 8, November 2016

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
65. Sorry; misunderstood
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 08:22 AM
Jun 2017

Yes; she is not my Rep, but if I lived in her district, I would vote for her. I just don't think criticizing her makes me a misogynist. Many people on DU think if you are not enamored with her leadership, you must have women issues. I said BS!

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
67. Nancy Pelosi is the "scapegoat du jour" just now.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:27 AM
Jun 2017

Most people talking about her negatively don't have any idea of why she is the minority leader right now. They're just pissed about losing a couple of House races in solidly red districts and need someone to blame for that.

The Republicans love to use Pelosi as a whipping girl in their campaigns. Why? Because she is so effective in the House with Democrats.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
71. you leave us to reach a conclusion based on your lack of evidence..
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:58 AM
Jun 2017

When not presented with objective, valid and specific reasons, you allow everyone to guess your motive. And as few objective reasons have been offered, instead merely petulant, grad-school bumper-stickers (for example., Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi-- though no doubt, you'll attempt to rationalize that as valid, mature and substantive reason, yes?), you simply leave us to reach a conclusion based on your lack of evidence..

That theme too, is absurd.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
72. Yes, the GOP loves the fact that so called democrats attack an effective Dem leader..
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:00 AM
Jun 2017

someone who is so effective they've resorted to demonizing her over the years and people calling themselves Democrats co sign this shit.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
76. Impeachment is off the table for Trump and Pence until we take the House in 2018....
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:24 AM
Jun 2017

Then it is President Pelosi.

George II

(67,782 posts)
79. First off, your quoted text has been taken WAY out of context. Why don't you use....
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:27 AM
Jun 2017

...her ENTIRE quote instead of just lifting a few words in order to denigrate her?

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
82. That is YOUR opinion! She said it and when they had power did nothing serious!
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:30 AM
Jun 2017

By the way, why do you have to be so unpleasant in your responses?

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
89. Trump agrees with you...look how he tries to get the Dems to rid themselves of Nancy
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:50 AM
Jun 2017

by pretending she is good for the Gop...right.


Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
90. Wow: you stoop to comparing me to Benedict Donald because I dare to disagree with leadership
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 10:57 AM
Jun 2017

Very Republican of you!

Demsrule86

(68,456 posts)
109. Well, I don't agree with Republicans...just mentioned that Donald feel as you do.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 03:43 PM
Jun 2017

I wonder why he wants to get rid of her...hmm

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
92. Pelosi isn't getting it done. I would vote for here again for Congress, but not as Speaker. (if it
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:00 AM
Jun 2017

was my decision)

I was happy to vote for Pelosi when I lived in S.F. from '89 to '99.
I always voted for Boxer and Feinstein, and now Harris.
How can I be branded a "misogynist"?
A small group of DU members are being as blind as bats.

Before you dis Tim Ryan, check out his voting record and approval percentages from the various business and special interest groups.

He's a liberal.

https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/45638/tim-ryan#.WUvWfzVk6N8

https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/45638/tim-ryan#.WUvaTjVk6N8

This is an interesting read:



http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/politics/rep-tim-ryan-democratic-party-brand-toxic-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html



 

KTM

(1,823 posts)
95. I feel the same about her as I did about Harry Reid
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:39 AM
Jun 2017

Everyone always went on and on about how he was a master of the intracacies of the Senate, how he was some kind of grand wizard of political chess, but he consistently failed to act. Yes, he was effective in the trenches, but he showed no spine when push came to shove. Pelosi is a great senator and has been very effective in the nitty gritty details, but she is of the Daschle-Reid tutu-wearing school of leadership.

 

KTM

(1,823 posts)
103. Yes, my bad.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:12 PM
Jun 2017

Representative. Congresswoman ? I step on the terms frequently, but my point regarding Dem leadership stands. I think Pelosi does a great job in the day to day, but I have issues with her (and their) failures to lead when push came to shove. Our leadership has been "keeping their powder dry" for thirty years.

David__77

(23,329 posts)
105. Sometimes, imputing of sexism does strike me as an automatic, or stimulus-response type reaction.
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 12:36 PM
Jun 2017

That said, the response to such also strikes as an automatic, or stimulus-response type reaction. So what if someone characterizes you or someone else as a misogynist?

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