It cannot be avoided

[angrychair]

Last edited Sun Jun 25, 2017, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

We have two very, very different and intractable Americas.

There is no fixing it, no matter how hard any of us try. I am never going to be "ok" with racism, bigotry and religious zealots and hate. I'm never going to compromise. THEY ARE WRONG.

They need their own country and we need our own.

Edit for more context:
Being republican means, first and foremost, to take from others to enrich yourself with more than you deserve.
We, as a society, have a responsibility to ensure a stable and lasting republic: socially, economically and environmentally. Republican philosophy is diametrically opposed to that. Their perspective is one of "me, first" to the point of detriment to those around them. It is a selfish and shortsighted perspective that is not sustainable in a functioning society (as an example: republican budgets have brought ruin to our country's economy and the current administration and congress will be no different)

[chowder66]

1. I think it can be fixed when Moderate Republicans find their voices again

and penetrate the ongoing and everlasting narrative that has taken over the last couple of decades. I'm talking about old school moderates which would be seen as Liberal today.
That is what Democrats and Independents need to appeal to and help build back up.

[angrychair]

3. If only that were true

Unfortunately, my opinion, based on many discussions with and observations of even so-called moderate republicans, is that the phrase "moderate republican" is no different than saying "moderate kkk" or "moderate white nationalist"

Even eugenics-lite is still eugenics (restricting equal access to equal healthcare)

Having "god" on my money is still religious zealotry.

Justice for all.

[chowder66]

7. I'm trying hard to not let cynicism eat me alive.

It hasn't been easy and I'm now trying to think about what we can do to turn this around.

My brother and father were moderates most of my youth as were many family friends. All very good people. My family members later became Democrats when Clinton was impeached. They were disgusted by the abuse of power of the Republicans. Others became Independents and tend to vote for Democrats mostly.

These are the kind I'm talking about. They are out there and they are still registered Republicans, some may be Independents but I think if support and attention was given to true old school Moderate voices maybe that can be elevated in a way that starts cutting through the noise and eventually breaks through and becomes a new option for those that want to 'wake up' or are waking up. If there was a time to push this I think it would be now.

[angrychair]

13. I get your point

And I understand it. Independents are great. I just don't see the use for republicans period.

Being republican means, first and foremost, to take from others to enrich yourself with more than you deserve.
We, as a society, have a responsibility to ensure a stable and lasting republic: socially, economically and environmentally. Republican philosophy is diametrically opposed to that. Their perspective is one of "me, first" to the point of detriment to those around them. It is a selfish and shortsighted perspective that is not sustainable in a functioning society (republican budgets have ruined our country's economy and the current administration will be no different)

[chowder66]

14. Yes, you are certainly right about that group of Republicans

I posted this on another thread that expands on that a little and is really more about the point I am trying to get across;

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9251846

If you can't access let me know and I will post it here.

[angrychair]

16. Good read

You have some good points and a part of me does hope you are right that, somewhere out there, are moderate republicans that are not batshit crazy and self-destructive.
Unfortunately, as it stands right now and has been the case for the last 30 or more years, I just do not not see it.
I don't say that without regrets, It breaks my heart but I think it would be easier to find a unicorn than a moderate republican.
Even the republicans that tailor themselves as "fiscal conservative, socially liberal" (a term in the same vein as "intelligent design&quot is no different than you standard republican, they are just trying to hide it better.
They are actually worse, their goal is to squeeze the poor and disenfranchised financially and there-by maintain their dominance both socially and financially.

[chowder66]

19. I continue to agree with you for the most part

and I have no idea where to find the voice of this unicorn but admittedly I'm not shopping around. I sent that letter to the DNC, errors and all hoping to give them something to work on. Maybe they will look at it, maybe they already have that as an idea or maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but it is the only way I can think of. And I think it would have to happen at some point anyway. My hope is that that Unicorn can be found sooner rather than later to stem the tide of disaster that's going to be befalling everyone who isn't a rich crook.

[chowder66]

15. I think that the Republican supporters went for 'something new' with Trump

What I don't think they did is realize that they are so cynical that they went for anything - which gave us Trump.

They don't have good representatives anymore. No one who is showing them the other ways to fight for what is good and good for them. It will take just one great voice from a moderate to show them how to imagine again and get that cynical funk out of their way for a bit to remember what it's like being on the right side of history.

That's what needs to shake loose.

[Blue_true]

2. I agree. We need to spilt America in half North to South with a resulting

western nation and an eastern nation. Adults can make their choice of which to go live in with their family. Immigration would be allowed, but people immigrating to one side from the other must accept the core values of the side they move to, no compromise, no voting to change those core values. It would suck to be part of 25 states that don't have California and New York, but I think we will be better off long term to select a side and build our own nation purely to our core values without worrying about what conservatives or moderate conservatives that want to restrict rights think.

[angrychair]

6. Unfortunately that is likely impractical

A more likely scenario is breaking up into several nation-states.
A likely example being the Pacific Northwest (CA, OR, WA and HI and likely AK)

So it will be more regional

It would be a mess at first and not easy but I don't see another way.

[Blue_true]

11. Actually breaking in half will be fairly easy.

Families moving from one side to the other can be given financial resources for the relocation if they need it, and even if they don't need it. Am thinking that some minor children, especially the ones that get taken to the conservative side may want to immigrate once becoming an adult, that is why reasonable immigration policies should exist, at least for our side.

[democratisphere]

4. I've been an advocate for the USA to be broken up into at least 6 seperate

countries for a long time. The current USA is dysfunctional and getting worse with each passing day. The rest of the world is just passing US by.

[angrychair]

17. Don't have an actual number in mind

But I do see several forming.
Our dysfunctional republic is unsustainable.
A see several of those new nations in a EU type model and even independent city-states.

[leftstreet]

5. Actually, the split is voters vs nonvoters

From that perspective it's impossible to draw a conclusion that 'one side' of Americans voted for racism and bigotry

[angrychair]

8. Not voting

Is still a choice. Not voting, knowing that a bunch of racist and ignorant religious zealots would get control, is deciding you prefer that option by your own inaction.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. Republican voters seem to want a separation too from what I've read, and...

... that would be okay by me!

[world wide wally]

10. I love that idea!

They can even get the Cofederate flag
In terms of the dividing lines, how about the states that pay more than they get back from taxes against the states that suck us dry and complain about paying any taxes at all?

[Maven]

12. Sadly, I think you're right

This republic is divided against itself, and can no longer stand as one. It's only a matter of time.

[BzaDem]

18. Even if one thought splitting the country was a good idea, there is no non-absurd geographic split.

The red/blue map we are accustomed to seeing really obfuscates the most salient political divide: urban vs. rural. In both red and blue states, there are often islands of blue areas (with high population density) in a sea of red areas (with low population density). Most of the time, the most important question is whether the cities numerically overtake the rest of the state, or vice versa.

I think it goes without saying that you can't have a country that consists of thousands of metaphorical islands, surrounded by another country.