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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 09:03 AM Jun 2017

The Democrats should start working on an alternative healthcare-bill now. NOW!

A two-pronged approach:

1. Make a plan what modifications should be made to Obamacare to make the system better.
Get a CBO-score and clobber the Republicans over the head with the result.

2. Grab a bunch of healthcare-experts, people from an active medical field (doctors/nurses...), health-insurance-lobbyists, patient-lobbyists and Democrats, lock them in a room and have them draw up a Single-Payer-Healthcare-Plan. (We'll call it SPHP, which is pronounced "sfp".)
Get a CBO-score and clobber the Republicans over the head with the result.



The GOP has a major problem: They have no ideas. Everything they do comes back to the same two premises:
1. More money for the rich.
2. Piss off Obama/Hillary/Libruls.
A few days ago, Paul Ryan penned an op-ed where he boasted about all the stuff Congress has gotten done so far. It was mostly about undoing regulations.



Imagine the following scenarios:

* The AHCA passes. And shortly therafter the Democrats publish their own proposal, which will be better than the AHCA. Forget Obamacare. Obamacare no longer counts. All future healthcare-bills would be compared to the AHCA, not to Obamacare. Trump ran on replacing a mediocre healthcare-system with something better. In 2018 and 2020, the Democrats would run on replacing a truly abominable healthcare-system with something better. And how difficult could it be to come up with something better than the AHCA?

* The AHCA does not pass. And shortly therafter the Democrats publish their own proposal, which will be better than the AHCA. Imagine how embarassing it will be for the Republicans when the Democrats prove to be better at governing DESPITE being the minority-party.








All hail "sfp"!

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The Democrats should start working on an alternative healthcare-bill now. NOW! (Original Post) DetlefK Jun 2017 OP
Save the day, Dems! superpatriotman Jun 2017 #1
K & R. People want to vote for something positive. bronxiteforever Jun 2017 #2
Yes and the fact they are not doing this exboyfil Jun 2017 #3
Single Payer NOW! Chasstev365 Jun 2017 #4
HR 676.. It's right there. Go for it! annabanana Jun 2017 #5
It could be risky if... Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2017 #6
Which part of the "republicans control both houses of congress" don't you understand. still_one Jun 2017 #7
Announcing an improved plan could give them control in 2018 leftstreet Jun 2017 #8
Exactly. It's about perception and 2018. Single-Payer vs Trumpcare. DetlefK Jun 2017 #9

bronxiteforever

(9,287 posts)
2. K & R. People want to vote for something positive.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 09:11 AM
Jun 2017

Totally agree that they have zero ideas except 35 year old trickle down tax policy. The GOP hasn't had an original idea in a generation.

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
3. Yes and the fact they are not doing this
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 09:16 AM
Jun 2017

shows me both parties are bankrupt. I am sorry to say it, and I hope I will be proved wrong.

I would add you should include some industry representation from larger employers who currently provide health benefits to their employees.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
4. Single Payer NOW!
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 09:16 AM
Jun 2017

The Democrats will never have a better opening than they do in the wake of this Trumpcare nightmare and what contrast to the Republicans they would present to the America public!

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
6. It could be risky if...
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 09:48 AM
Jun 2017

... it's some half-assed measure that still bows down to corporate power over the desires of the public. (On the other hand, it would surely attract some people simply because it would be an improvement over the AHCA.)

If they proposed something that would actually get the public excited, they might then get a corporate funding backlash before the next election.

It hurts me to write that stuff, but it just wouldn't surprise me if those thoughts cross their minds.

The whole profit-obsessed system is hard to overcome. It's deeply entrenched in this country, and even our laws regarding corporations (inherited from the courts) are fundamentally written to promote pathological behavior! It even promotes corporate welfare because, for the sake of investors who don't directly manage the corporations, the laws even direct corporate executives to seek public funding if it will spare them costs! It's like a law that tells an actual person, "Make money from a job, but always try to get public welfare too if you can!" It's an aspect of our society that not even most liberals discuss openly.

https://chomsky.info/20050518/
~~~~~~~~~~
Q: Could you tell us in detail how the corporation became so powerful?

How it became so powerful? Well, we know it very well. There were enormous market failures, market disasters in the late 19th century. There was a brief experiment, a very brief experiment, with something more or less like capitalism, not really but partially, really free markets, and it was such a total catastrophe that business called it off because it couldn’t survive, and there were moves in the late 19th century to overcome these radical market failures and they led to various forms of concentration of capital: trusts, cartels, and others, and the one that emerged was the corporation in its modern form.

And the corporations were granted rights by the courts. I mean, I know the Anglo-American history fairly well – but I think it’s pretty much the same elsewhere, so I’ll keep to that one – in the Anglo-American system the courts, not the legislators, gave the corporate entities extraordinary rights. They gave them the rights of persons, meaning they have the right of freedom of speech, they can propagandize freely, advertise, they run elections and so on, and they have the protection from inspection by the state authorities which means that just as the police technically can’t go into your apartment and read your papers, the public can’t find out what’s going on inside these totalitarian entities. They’re mostly unaccountable to the public. Of course they are not real persons, they are immortal, they are collectivist legal entities. In fact they are very similar to other organizational forms we know and are one of the forms of totalitarianism that developed in the 20th century. The others were destroyed, these still exist, and later they were required by law to be what we would call pathological in the case of real human beings.

So they are required legally to maximize power and profit no matter what effect that has on anyone else. They are required to externalize costs, so if they can get the public or future generations to pay their costs, they are required to do that. It would be illegal for corporate executives to do anything else.

By now, in what are called trade agreements, which have nothing much to do with trade, corporations are granted rights that go way beyond the rights of persons. They are granted the right of what’s called “national treatment.” Persons don’t have that right. Like if a Mexican comes to New York, he can’t claim national treatment, but if General Motors goes to Mexico, it can claim national treatment. In fact corporations can even sue states, which you and I can’t do.

So they’re granted rights way beyond persons. They are immortal, they are extraordinarily powerful, they are pathological by legal requirement, and that’s the contemporary form of totalitarianism. They are not truly competitive, they are linked to one another. So Siemens and IBM and Toshiba carry out joint projects. They rely heavily on state power; the dynamism of the modern economy comes mostly out of the state sector, not the private sector. Almost every aspect of what’s called the “New Economy” is developed and designed at public cost and public risk: computers, electronics generally, telecommunications, the internet, lasers, whatever…

Take radio. Radio was designed by the US Navy. Mass production, modern mass production was developed in armories. If you go back to a century ago, the major problems of electrical and mechanical engineering had to do with how to place a huge gun on a moving platform, namely a ship, designing it to be able to hit a moving object, another ship, so naval gunnery. That was the most advanced problem in metallurgy, electrical and mechanical engineering, and so on. England and Germany put huge efforts into it, the United States less so. Out of associated innovations comes the automotive industry, and so on and so forth. In fact, it’s very hard to find anything in the economy that doesn’t rely critically on the state sector.

After the Second World War this took a qualitative leap upward, particularly in the United States, and while Alan Greenspan and others make speeches about “entrepreneurial initiative” and “consumer choice,” and things you learn about in graduate school, and so on, this has almost no resemblance to the actual working economy. In fact a striking example of all this which we see very clearly at MIT, a main technological scientific university, is a recent shift in funding. When I got to MIT 50 years ago, it was Pentagon funded, almost one hundred percent. That stayed true until about 1970. Since then, however, Pentagon funding has been declining and funding from the National Institute of Health and the other so called health-related national institutes has gone up.

The reason is obvious to everybody except maybe some highly theoretical economists. The reason is that the cutting edge of the economy in the fifties and the sixties was electronics-based, so therefore it made sense for the public to pay for it under the pretext of defense. By now the cutting edge of the economy is becoming biology-based. Biotechnology, genetic engineering and so on, and pharmaceuticals, so it makes sense for the public to pay for that and to take the risks for it under the pretext of, you know, finding a cure for cancer or something. Actually what’s happening is just developing the infrastructure and insights for the biological-based private industries of the future. They are happy to let the public pay the costs and take the risks, and then transfer the results to private corporations to make the profits. From the point of view of corporate elites it is a perfect system, this interaction between state and private power. There’s plenty of other interactions as well. For example, the Pentagon isn’t just for developing the economy, it’s also for making sure that the world follows corporate friendly rules. So the linkages are quite complex.
~~~~~~~~~~

still_one

(92,114 posts)
7. Which part of the "republicans control both houses of congress" don't you understand.
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 09:57 AM
Jun 2017

The republican party has excluded Democrats and women from the behind the closed door republican repeal and replace.

The Democrats are exposing the benefits from the ACA, such as expanded Medicaid, subsidies, pre-existing conditions, etc. that will be decimated under the latest Senate plan, and are trying to use delaying tactics, but there is very little the minority party can do, as long as the republicans exclude them from the process.

What some seem to be ignoring is that nothing in the ACA, its potential repeal and replacement, prevents states from enacting their own single payer/universal plan.

California has started that process. The California Assembly has put on hold their universal care bill until next year, because it cannot go forward until they know what happens with the ACA. The feds supply funding to the states from the ACA, and that funding is in question right now because of what the republicans have been doing. Until that has been resolved, the California Assembly cannot determine where the financing will come from for its Universal Healthcare.

With the republicans in control of both houses of Congress, realistically the only options available are 2018, and or states enacting their own universal health care system



leftstreet

(36,103 posts)
8. Announcing an improved plan could give them control in 2018
Wed Jun 28, 2017, 10:01 AM
Jun 2017

I think that's the basically the point. Take control of the issue now, get GOPers booted out in the midterms

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