63,459 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2016

[OnlinePoker]

1.4% of all patients if you read the full report. This is up from 42k in 2015.

In 2016, an estimated 63,459 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment outside Canada.
Physicians in British Columbia reported the highest proportion of patients (in a province) receiving treatment abroad (2.4%). The largest number of patients estimated to have left the country for treatment was from Ontario (26,513).
Across Canada, otolaryngologists reported the highest proportion of patients (in a specialty) travelling abroad for treatment (2.1%). The largest number of patients (in a specialty) travelled abroad for general surgeries (9,454).
One explanation for patients travelling abroad to receive medical treatment may relate to the long waiting times they are forced endure in Canada’s health care system. In 2016, patients could expect to wait 10.6 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist—almost 4 weeks longer than the time physicians consider to be clinically “reasonable” (7.0 weeks).

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/leaving-canada-for-medical-care-2017

[NCTraveler]

1. I don't see anything about their economic status.

The wealthy will always have more options available to them.

[Hortensis]

33. I don't see anything about WINTERING in the U.S.

and other warmer nations, or even just visiting for a week or two and breaking a toe.

We have a bunch of Canadian snowbird neighbors in Florida each winter, and of course, being older, they do go to the doctor now and then, and even occasionally require hospitalization.

The vast majority of Canadians live very close to their southern border, and that's still damned cold over half the year.

/revision/latest?cb=20120130150848

[NCTraveler]

34. +1

I wonder how many actually clicked the link in the op. It's void of actual research.

[Hortensis]

38. :) Amazing how often mentally clicking "how's geography

involved" turns up some significant factor. We're used to blowing it off these days, but geography still rules.

[rufus dog]

41. Agreed the summary sucks - there is a link to the complete report on the summary report

Detailed link provides a bit more info.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/leaving-canada-for-medical-care-2017.pdf

[NCTraveler]

42. I read it as well.

It doesn't really add anything as far as research goes. You can see I linked it below earlier this morning.

[rufus dog]

43. just got through it

Yes it is weak also. That being said the % seeking treatment outside of Canada is low. Repubs would have people thinking that the MAJORITY of Canadians run across the border for the great U.S. care. Not the case by looking at the numbers.

That being said, the study groups almost 50% of the patients into the "Residual" count, which means the analsis of why people seek treatments is almost useless.

[greymattermom]

2. How many Americans sought treatment outside the country?

How many of those Canadians had cosmetic procedures?

[OnlinePoker]

3. I don't know about Americans, but the rest is in the report if you'd read it. n/t

[NCTraveler]

6. Here is the report.

Simply point them to the page and paragraph since you have read it.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/leaving-canada-for-medical-care-2017.pdf

Calling it a report is questionable. You are aware of that since you read it.

[W_HAMILTON]

8. 1,400,000 last year.

Taken from: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/17/14-Million-Americans-Will-Go-Abroad-Medical-Care-Year-Should-You

Per capita, there are more Americans that seek care abroad than Canadians that seek care abroad.

[George II]

28. Yes, that's more than twice the number per capita than Canada (0.43% US vs. 0.18% Canada)

[George II]

17. And how many got sick while outside Canada? The biggest group visited Otolaryngologists....

....ear/nose/throat doctors, who treat colds, sore throats, and the flu. I doubt many of that huge group left Canada to get treatment for colds or sore throats.

This "study" and statistic is useless.

[marybourg]

23. Nose jobs

[NCTraveler]

4. It looks like they came up with a POSSIBLE number of people...

Who left Canada for non-emergency medical procedures and then drew from a very limited number of their own assumptions, without research. Just a couple of "maybes" to follow what they themselves highlight could be flawed numbers.

[George II]

18. Precisely- I'll bet many of those treated outside of Canada got sick while traveling.

[csziggy]

5. Long waits to see a specialist is not unique to Canada

Last November my doctor heard a heart murmur during my routine annual checkup. I was not able to see a cardiologist until late January. At that time he recommended tests to find out what was happening - the echocardiogram took only three weeks to get in his office but the follow up MRI will not happen until next week. In addition in March he recommended a sleep study - I have yet to hear from the pulmonologist office to make an appointment for my first visit and I understand that after that it is a minimum of three months before the study can be arranged. Only part of the delay is due to insurance company reluctance to approve care - most of it is because the specialists are overloaded and have a backup in patients.

I've had the same kind of delays when referred to other specialists - months and months of delay for initial visits followed by additional months of waiting for the recommended tests. Then more months of delay before treatment or surgery. That goes back decades - in the early 1990s I basically lost a year after a shoulder injury - it took eight months before the surgery to reconstruct my rotator cuff then months and months of therapy to get my atrophied muscles back up to par. That was before I had insurance so everything was out of pocket, paid in advance.

I suspect that in most countries the systems to pay for health care are not at the heart of long waits to see specialists. Rather it is the need for more specialists in certain fields to treat the increasing number of patients.

[phylny]

14. My breast cancer was diagnosed December 20, 2013.

Surgery was scheduled for March 30, 2014. Three months later.

If my husband doesn't go to his urology appointment on July 10, the next time they can see him is October. We are fortunate to have good insurance.

[WePurrsevere]

32. I agree. The way to see a specialist fast in the US..

Is to get checked into a large hospital or have your regular doctor push hard to get you in. In rural areas especially it can take months and an hour or two road trip to get in and then get to a specialist.

Canada may have a problem but so do other countries like US and the Canadians I know wouldn't trade their universal healthcare system for ours. At least once they get in they know they won't go bankrupt or die just because they need extensive care/treatments like the Republicans want for here.

(From reading other posts I'm not surprised to learn that the source is libertarian. )

[Demonaut]

7. what is the point of this post?

the Fraser Institute is a Conservative think tank

[DanTex]

10. The purpose, of course, is to support the right-wing argument that Canada's single payer

system leads to long waiting times and forces its citizens to come to the US for healthcare. This is why the Fraser people didn't point out that the US has more people per capita that travel abroad for healthcare than Canada does. And it's also why they didn't point out that Canada's healthcare system ranks higher in international comparisons than ours, even though ours costs twice as much.

[BannonsLiver]

26. +1

I'd like to see the Canadian OP get a whiff of our "pay or you die" system for a bit. The worry about maintaining employment to keep ones health insurance, the hidden rationing, the tiers of "service".

[OnlinePoker]

15. I googled how many Canadians left for medical procedures

This came up. Nobody else seems to ask the question. Here in BC almost 40% of the provincial budget goes to the medical system and it still isn't enough to allow everyone to be treated here in a timely manner.

[athena]

20. Does the U.S. system "allow everyone to be treated in a timely manner"?

Answer: no, it doesn't. Not only do millions of people have no insurance, but millions of others have insurance that doesn't cover very much. Even those who, like myself, have excellent insurance, are regularly forced to wait upwards of three months to see a specialist for a 10-minute initial appointment. And hospitals and doctor's offices frequently make billing mistakes that increase our total out-of-pocket cost. I've spent hours calling hospitals and being put on hold, just to explain to them that I had already sent in a check that they had cashed but neglected to record in their system. After my last surgery, I spent hours, during my recovery period when I was still weak and in pain, arguing with my doctor's office because they submitted an incorrect claim to my insurance company and then tried to claim my insurance company refused to cover the procedure. The amount they charged me was more than three times what my insurance ended up paying, when, after many phone calls and e-mails, I finally managed to sort it all out. I dread going to the doctor here, and I have excellent insurance thanks to my husband's job. Consider yourself lucky to live in a country that views health care as a human right.

Note that those who don't have insurance often end up going bankrupt when they need emergency care. Tens of thousands of people die from preventable diseases like pneumonia because they lack health insurance. No one in Canada dies from a preventable disease. The only time you have to wait in Canada is when you have something that doesn't require immediate treatment. I know this because I lived in Canada for many years.

Finally, Canadians who travel to the U.S. for medical care usually do so not because of waiting times but because the specific service they need is more readily available in the U.S. than in Canada. When that is the case, Canada pays for it.

By the way, it is against DU rules to post articles from right-wing sources. "It came up in a Google search" is not a good-enough excuse.

[OnlinePoker]

22. Payment outside of Canada only with approval

If the treatment is non-emergency, you need approval from the Medical Services Plan before you go. If you don't get it, the cost is paid by you. Even with approval, the amount paid by the BC MSP is the cost it would be for the same procedure here in BC. Anything over and above is your responsibility.

[athena]

27. So you admit that your OP contains a falsehood.

Also known as a lie. The numbers in your OP are not for those who came to the U.S. because of long wait times. It includes those who came to the U.S. because the care they needed was not available in Canada. You are using the fact that Canada pays for people to get care to argue that Canadians are not getting health care. Who do you think you're kidding?

By ignoring the content of my post, you have demonstrated that you are not here to have a discussion but to advance right-wing talking points. Welcome to ignore. If your goal is to brainwash the left with your hateful right-wing rhetoric, you will not get very far. We're not idiots.

It is pretty shameful to get the kind of health care 99% of Americans can only dream of, and then complain about it. Many people in the U.S. would gladly change places with you. I do hope one day you will get a job in the U.S. and move here, because then you will see the cruelty of the system you're arguing in favor for. Right-wingers can never see the validity of an argument unless it affects them personally. We're seeing that daily in the U.S. these days.

[LanternWaste]

21. It's a shame you deny the same skepticism

It's a shame you deny the same skepticism to the report that you give to the Canadian healthcare system.

Bias is a very human trait...

[Jim__]

9. The New York Times has described the (Fraser) Institute as libertarian[12] and conservative.[2]

From wikipedia:

<excerpt>

The Fraser Institute describes itself as "an independent international research and educational organization",[10] and envisions "a free and prosperous world where individuals benefit from greater choice, competitive markets, and personal responsibility".[9]

Forbes has referred to the think tank as libertarian.[11] The New York Times has described the Institute as libertarian[12] and conservative.[2] The Calgary Herald called it conservative,[3] Langley Times classified it as right-of-center libertarian.[5]

</excerpt>

[Greybnk48]

11. After reading this, I'm scared to have single payer healthcare!!!!!

NOT.

How many Americans go elsewhere for care? My former B.I.L. went to England for a cancer treatment not available in the U.S., so what?

[peggysue2]

13. Fraser Institute

Link here from Source Watch:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fraser_Institute

A libertarian think tank that was organized in answer to the perils of big government. Donations from the Koch brothers, ties to ALEC, etc., etc., etc.

Whenever the idea of single payer healthcare is whispered, the articles of doom begin to appear. But this time? Even conservative writers are suggesting that the Republican reform and repeal debacle is heading in one direction and one direction only: a Medicare for All system. Why? Because it's the only thing that makes sense both from an efficiency standpoint and cost effectiveness.

Voters, even Republican voters, are no longer buying into glib statements like Paul Ryan's that everyone will have 'access' but some people will 'choose' not to pick up healthcare insurance. He fails to mention that the average 50-64 year old who is paying $4600 per annum for a Silver Plan under the ACA will be paying $16,000 under the GOP's joke of healthcare reform. Oh, and that would be Bronze coverage. Roughly 3.5 times as much for less (58%) coverage.

Hit people in their pocketbooks and expect the Howling. Rip coverage away from the sick, the poor, the disabled, the elderly and expect the rattle of pitchforks. McConnell is warning that the Republican Senate may have to negotiate with Democrats? At between 12-27% approval on this stinker, he should be warning his members of a full-scale revolt.

2018 is coming! Oh yeah.

[George II]

16. So? Canada is a country of 36 million people, so that's less than 0.2%. Are those people...

...traveling outside Canada for treatment, or did they get sick while they were abroad?

Do you know what an otolaryngologist is? It's an ear/nose/throat doctor. Two years ago I was up there in October and I came down with a bad cold. I went to see a doctor for antibiotics. So I guess I "left the United States for treatment".

And that BS about waiting times is ridiculous, too.

"One explanation for patients travelling abroad to receive medical treatment may relate to the long waiting times". That's simply not true. On the other hand I had cataract surgery last summer - diagnosed in May and the first date I could get for the surgery was the first week in August - that's TWELVE weeks! Right here in the US of A.

[OnlinePoker]

19. Cataract surgery in BC

Currently (31 May) 22,353 on wait list. Estimate 50% complete in 11.0 weeks, 90% complete in 36.3 weeks.

[dembotoz]

24. pondering some dental work to be done in mexico cause i sure as hell can not afford it here

[OnlinePoker]

36. Yah, I have to get some bridgework done

It's going to be about $4k. Not looking forward to that bill.

[BannonsLiver]

25. Cool story. America's system still sucks though.

[OneBlueDotBama]

29. The Fraser Inst....

OMG, it must be true...

This is akin to using the Heritage Inst, Manhattan Inst for data... it's generally total BS!
The purpose of anything they fools write about Canadian health care is to ensure single payer universal health insurance schemes look horrid and of course pre ACA looks totally wondrous.

[jpak]

30. Health Canada pays for the care and travel expenses of Quebec and New Brunswick residents

traveling to Maine for treatment.

GOP talking points are a fucking joke.

[Bayard]

31. Better than 22M without insurance at all

And I don't trust the source anyway

[Kingofalldems]

35. Your post was very educational.

Probably not in the way one might think though.

[TubbersUK]

37. The Fraser Institute

[EllieBC]

39. BC has a small problem. And it does no one any good to ignore it.

We do have longer wait times than the other provinces. I'm not sure why but I'm pretty certain it has to do with our centre-right provincial governement.

My oldest daughter has been on a wait list since December 2015 (yes 2015, not 2016) for an MRI with sedation at BC Children's. We are finally folding and paying for private. I just wish they had told us the wait was 18 months instead of 6-8. her autism eval wait time was 16 months. My husband's work related arm surgery took 8 months to get to.

We do need more MRIs and specialists in this province. To say we don't and it's all ok is a lie.
But our provincial government seems to think it's ok.

[rufus dog]

40. Thanks

First time I have seen the use of actual data on the subject.

Edit to add: The detail in the study is very weak. It does not have any decent data as to why Canadians seek treatment outside their borders, only some opinions as to why.

[SharonClark]

44. Worthless information - Fraser Institute is a conservative and libertarian think tank

It has been criticized repeatedly for its biased surveys and methodology.

[flotsam]

45. "Across Canada, otolaryngologists reported the highest proportion of patients"

And what does that specialty do? Well among other things they perform plastic surgery...