It is amazing how some get so upset here when we tell Jill Stein off!

[hrmjustin]

Jill Stein deserves our condemnation for the campaign she and the greens ran.

They are NOT our allies!!!

[NCTraveler]

1. Fully agree. It's extremely transparent.

As transparent as the obviously fraudulent language she used as she fleeced invested and emotional people out of millions.

[Old Vet]

4. In short, I will say it---FUCK Jill Stein

[FarPoint]

5. I second the Fuck....

Fuck Jill Stein

[calimary]

40. I have a third Fuck Jill Stein to give.

[FarPoint]

43. Acknowledged...

Endorsement Sealed.. up

[calimary]

70. Hugs to you and Mr. Spock too, FarPoint!

Damn - I was trying to depict the "live long and prosper" salute. Two forward-slashes, two backslashes. For some reason, the system won't let me. I'd type it in, but I'd only get one forward-slash: \//

[jrthin]

92. An added Fuck Jill Stein. nt

[NCTraveler]

6. +1 nt

[shraby]

2. She wasn't at the roundtable in Russia with Putin and Flynn for no other reason besides the food

was good.

[Thinkingabout]

27. A long way to travel for a meal.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. Jill Stein & Republican Flynn dining with Authoritarian Putin in Moscow 2015

[MineralMan]

3. It's expected and unsurprising.

It's always interesting to note who bristles when Jill Stein is criticized.

[Old Vet]

25. The only thing I find surprising are the number of people who werent following...

Jill Stein during the election and just now find her bad news.

[Blue_true]

7. Yes, there are a few Green, Jill Stein defenders here.

Would be nice if they came out and said that they don't believe in what moderate, moderate-progressive and progressive Democrats believe. Say they don't share our core values. My tact with them from a political standpoint is to eliminate them from the picture so that at crunch time, we have people defending our backs that we can trust.

[neeksgeek]

8. I briefly considered joining the Green Party.

It was years ago, during Bush II. I don't remember why I didn't follow through, but it was a good call.

[mercuryblues]

57. I went to a rally during that time

I came away with the impression that they are pretentious schmucks.

[maddiemom]

65. SMUG was the way Stein struck me

And no real experience in government (like Trump). I can't begin to imagine what she would do with that car if she caught it.

[ProudLib72]

9. Jill Stein was one cog in the election fraud machine

We can't just focus on the other players and ignore her. Lock her up!

[sheshe2]

10. Kickity Kick!

[Hekate]

11. KNR

[smirkymonkey]

12. K&R

[LWolf]

13. But they could be,

if there were any intelligence or integrity at work. But of course...who needs allies?

I'm not upset with Stein. I'm not "so upset" here about the really dramatic rants about Stein. They are par for the course.

I am, too be honest, scratching my head a bit over why so much energy is being impotently expended on Stein instead of on activism to put Democrats in a position to win. That's kind of a playground bully mentality; instead of taking responsibility for bad decisions, bad policies, and acting to make positive change, let's blame the other guy.

Personally, I think it might be a better use of time and energy to figure out how to bring voters to the party, than chase them away.

[hrmjustin]

20. She made a statement that she played a big part in the campaign.

Just giving my opinion on her today.

Oh here is Skinner's thoughts on Jill Stein;

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125912810#post1

[mcar]

71. Skinner is succinct, but correct

[VermontKevin]

73. Wow. Are these imprecations hurled at all third party candidates? nt

[hrmjustin]

74. DU detests Jill Stein and we like to let her know.

[VermontKevin]

78. I don't disagree. I think Third Party candidates are always a mistake. nt

[Demsrule86]

91. Yes, We are Democrats and we elect Democrats.

[VermontKevin]

141. I agree. nt

[rzemanfl]

101. She did make one interesting suggestion today. Give people a first and second choice.

If their first choice doesn't win, their vote goes to their second choice. Under that system we would have had President Gore.

We don't have that system and because of Jill Stein votes in three states Hillary lost. So I agree with Skinner.

[emulatorloo]

35. Stein is an ally? Tell me more!

"I'm, too be honest, scratching my head a bit over why so much energy is being impotently expended on Stein instead of on activism to put Democrats in a position to win."

It takes a couple minutes to write an OP. Takes a minute to write a reply.

Are you saying somebody's gonna be so exhausted by writing an OP that they can't knock doors to elect Democrats?

If so you vastly underestimate the stamina of yr fellow DU'ers.



"That's kind of a playground bully mentality; instead of taking responsibility for bad decisions, bad policies, and acting to make positive change, let's blame the other guy."

To pretend that DU'ers are not taking any "responsibility" is a cute little meme a tiny handful of y'all have created but anybody who reads DU knows it is false.

And DU'ers have every right to criticize the bad decisions and bad faith actions of Jill Stein by peddling her nonsense about the Democratic nominee being the same or worse that Donald Trump.

[LWolf]

147. No.

I'm clearly not saying "somebody's gonna be so exhausted by writing an OP that they can't knock doors to elect Democrats."

Allow me to assist you with comprehension.

I'm saying that the Green Party platform has many positions friendly to the Democratic Party platform, which makes Green Party members and voters natural potential allies, for those whose political philosophy is: 1. About issues and 2: About moving those issues forward.

Hating and attacking everyone who doesn't follow your leaders is not a strategy to build coalitions that achieve success.

Blaming others for our own failure to achieve that success is not a winning strategy, either. I'm a proponent of small "d" democracy. I support the right of every voter to make their own reasoned choice, and If I can't convince them to vote like I want them to, that's on me, not them. There's some democratic integrity there. I'd like the big "D" Democratic party, and Democrats, to exercise some of that integrity instead of the knee-jerk blame and hate reaction which doesn't involve reason. It's not about Stein, and it's never been about Stein. It's about winning the minds and votes of more people.

"Tiny little handful?" fyi: DU is not even a tiny little handful in the population of voters in the U.S. that need to be reached out to.

The energy spent in throwing spittle and hate at those we didn't win is better spent figuring out why we didn't win them, and doing a better job, not at driving them further away. Some simple common sense.

[emulatorloo]

149. I support Green Party voters who are our allies and have posted defenses when they've been attacked

They are not to be blamed for Stein very public campaign to draw a false equivalency between the Republican and Democratic nominee.

Oh wait, correction: to claim the Democratic nominee was worse than the Republican nominee.

"It's not about Stein, and it's never been about Stein. It's about winning the minds and votes of more people. "

We're in total agreement on that. As I mentioned in my post title, Green voters have been allies and will continue to be allies. (Not all Greens are Stein-cultists btw.)

Where we disagree is your apparent notion that Stein is a sacred cow who should not be criticized for her divisive anti-Democratic pro-Trump rhetoric during the 2016 election, or her disingenuous rhetoric yesterday.

Anyone who claimed Clinton was worse than Trump during 2016 is not to be listened to. Ever again.

At the very least it shows extremely poor judgment.

You can certainly continue "expending energy" chastising evil DU'ers who find Stein's rhetoric yesterday disingenuous and destructive if you wish.

However don't expect DU'ers to capitulate to the false meme that Dems and Republicans are 'the same'. That's neither a liberal or progressive position. It's a false equivalency and folks here don't really care for false equivalencies.

[LWolf]

163. I'm glad to hear that.

There have, in the past, been some great Green Party members here.

Stein is not a sacred cow. I know it's difficult to grasp for the more partisan people, but when I say "it's not about Stein," I really mean it. I'm no fan of any kind of identity politics. I'm about issues. There are individuals that I think do a great job working for the issues I care about; they get my support. That support, though, is about issues. Not personalities. I know I didn't say anything about the two major parties being "the same." That's not a charge that gets my attention one way or the other.

The bottom line as far as Stein goes is that she is a spokesperson, for better or for worse, for a party, for a bunch of voters, that should be allies. So no matter what I think of her rhetoric, I'm going to focus on what really matters; those potential allies. I don't believe I've spent a small fraction of a percent of the energy "chastising" others that has been spent attacking Stein. A waste of energy, imo, which is why I point it out. I don't think there's any benefit in it, but there's potential harm.

Meanwhile, the world marches on, and every day brings another atrocity and another humiliation from the Trump administration. I think focusing energy on how to hold the line against those atrocities, and how to reach out to people we might need now to do so, and in '18 at the polls, should be the first priority; Stein has no place there. Imo, of course.

[emulatorloo]

164. Fair enough and well said.

[Demsrule86]

166. Why are these folks remaining as Greens?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

58. Democrats can walk & chew gum at the same time. Pushing saboteur Stein aside is necessary. nt

[mcar]

72. How, exactly, is Stein an ally?

[betsuni]

97. You forgot to call Democrats "neoliberals."

[LWolf]

146. No.

I didn't forget anything at all. Some Democrats are neoliberals, it's true. Not all Democrats are neoliberals, and not all neoliberals are Democrats, so I wouldn't make the mistake of equating them.

[zentrum]

134. Agree.

Seems a waste of time now. Let's not be distracted. Get on with Democratic build out.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. You know

There are things I admire about McMullin and Kasich - but I don't clog up the boards at DU with it.

This is the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. What is so hard to understand about that? Party First.

[we can do it]

15. Fuck Stein, Nader, and the simpleton vanity voters.

[brush]

16. Did Stein just say or do something? Why the Stein threads today?

Last edited Sat Jul 1, 2017, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

[hrmjustin]

17. She said she played a big part in the campaign on MSNBC today.

[Madam45for2923]

19. Really! WTH!

[SCantiGOP]

21. She did play a part

Just like Nader did in 2000.

[deurbano]

84. Exactly. Was she begging the country and the world for forgiveness?

[pnwmom]

23. Did she elaborate?

[hrmjustin]

24. At to that point I turned off the TV.

I was pissed.

[emulatorloo]

54. In 140 characters or less:

Link to tweet

[pnwmom]

98. Wow. She's proud of the mess she helped create. n/t

[Raine1967]

26. Now I am seeing what this is about.

damn it all.

Stein was never a friend to the Dems.

Having said that -- she didn;t have to be -- she ran a third party campaign and in doing so, (seriously, let's be honest) she ran as a spoiler -- she was not EVER going to help our party.

[NastyRiffraff]

18. Unbelievable but..

she still has support on DU. So does Assange. Unbelievable.

[Chevy]

34. And TYT and The intercept n/t

[emulatorloo]

41. TYT: Republican Funded. The Ivancept: in love with Russia n/t

[progressoid]

75. TYT: Republican Funded?

I don't watch them. I was unaware of repub funding.

[emulatorloo]

79. LA Times:Young Turks Network raises $4 million from former Louisiana governor

LA Times:Young Turks Network raises $4 million from former Louisiana governor

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-the-young-turks-raises-4-million-from-former-louisiana-governor-20140416-story.html

4/16/2014

Left-leaning political talk show host Cenk Uygur has raised $4 million to expand his digital video company the Young Turks Network, and the money comes from a seemingly unlikely source: Republican Buddy Roemer, the former governor of Louisiana.

Roemer's private equity fund, Roemer, Robinson, Melville & Co., is providing $4 million in seed financing with an option to go up to $8 million, which the network plans to use to expand its reach through Internet streaming, local television and international syndication deals.

----

See also:

Buddy Roemer Buys The Young Turks

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/16/1292572/-Buddy-Roemer-Buys-The-Young-Turks

I swear this is not based on an article in The Onion. Here's the headline from Mediaite:

The Young Turks Network Raises $4 Million From Former Republican Presidential Candidate.
Yes folks, Cenk Uygur has sold a large stake in his TYT franchise to Buddy Roemer, whose career in Republican politics was capped by his run for President in 2012. Roemer's private equity fund, Roemer, Robinson, Melville & Co., LLC. ponied up $4 million in financing for The Young Turks, with an option to raise that investment to $8 million as reported by Matt Willstein at Mediaite.

<snip>

It's hard to say what is behind this investment decision. Cenk Uygur, who is the driving force behind The Young Turks has always had something of a Libertarian streak. I have always been one of Cenk's harshest critics, so I must confess this marriage of Roemer and Uygur strikes me as a cynical marriage of convenience, whose ultimate purpose I cannot fathom. Roemer is someone who dearly wants to wield some political power once again and maybe he sees TYT as the vehicle that can make him relevant and Cenk may be willing to sell his soul for the big bucks.

--------

[Old Vet]

100. Thanks for the information, I didnt know that........

Ive only watched tyt a couple times and thought the show was on point shredding Trump. I would never of guessed they would get funds from the right ?????

[Voltaire2]

117. Buddy Roemer - perhaps you should research just who he is.

Start here with his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/buddyroemer/

He is an independent reformer. He has been a Democrat, a Republican, and an Independent.

He has one mission these days: get money out of politics. On that issue he is aligned with TYT and their WolfPAC which has exactly the same mission, and with Lawrence Lessig and with other people who view the complete corruption of our current political system as the primary problem, the problem that has to be solved first before government can once again represent the people.

Or you can just pretend that TYT is a republican front organization.

[emulatorloo]

133. Here's a Young Turk for you.

Link to tweet

Let's embrace every rightwing meme and rightwing CT we can, but we're oh so "progressive."

Thanks for Roehmer's resume.

I've watched TYT, they are divisive, harbor anti-Democratic conspiracy theorists like Dore, assholes like Michael Tracy (his little Dems and Republicans are the "same" stunt with Maxine Waters etc) and in 2016 spewed virulent bullshit against Democrats and the Democratic nominee until the very last minute. However the damage was done.

They enabled the Republicans just as Stein did.

Buddy Roemer may be a saint.

TYT are unscrupulous tools for the Republican Party whether they are aware of it are not.

[mcar]

22. K&R

[Adrahil]

28. Oh yeah?

Well fuck Jill Stein!

[hrmjustin]

29. well said!

[tiredtoo]

30. Why is this a topic on this board? EOM

[hrmjustin]

31. Because we criticize our adversaries here.

[tiredtoo]

120. Oh and here i thought the Republicans were our adversaries, sorry.

[fallout87]

158. Spoilers

Like Stein are adversaries as well.

[leftstreet]

32. Because everyone got bored with Ralph Nader n/t

[hrmjustin]

33. No I am still pissed at him but I am more pissed at Stein now.

[tiredtoo]

122. And the republicans are of no concern?

[hrmjustin]

129. With respect that is a foolish question.

I and others in this thread rail against the GOP everyday.

Jill Stein is our adversary and deserves our condemnation.

[tiredtoo]

137. with respect tell me

when was the last time you heard a republican condemn the tea party or the kkk or even David Duke?
They accept the fringes on the right. Only difference i see is... they win elections.

[hrmjustin]

139. What does that have to do with Stein?

[tiredtoo]

140. we have to stop condemning left wing fringe folk if we expect to turn this around.

[hrmjustin]

142. Your concern for the Greens and Stein is noted.

[L. Coyote]

50. Because we can't plant Ralph Nader any deeper.

[tiredtoo]

123. And yet Trump grows profusely.

[L. Coyote]

127. Almost to Obama's knees already ...

[emulatorloo]

59. Nah, falsely claiming Dems are the same or worse than Republicans never gets boring

Until a Reagan, or a Bush, or a Trump gets elected.

[tiredtoo]

124. Reagan, Bush and Trump have been elected. same old same old. Move on!

[tiredtoo]

121. There is always Trump

[emulatorloo]

37. Cuz it is a discussion board and people sometimes discuss things that aren't of interest to everyone

[tiredtoo]

125. Personally i see it more as a divide and conquer stimulant.

[emulatorloo]

143. Anybody who said Clinton is Worse than Trump is not to be listened to. Ever again.

At the very least it shows that person has extremely poor judgement.

If you want to talk "divide and conquer," I suggest you do more research on Stein's divisive rhetoric during the 2016 election.

In the meantime Trash Thread is a wonderful option.

[Gore1FL]

64. I suspect it's because some people take longer to get through the stages of grief than others.

Anger is one of the uglier stages of them.

[Demsrule86]

93. Kremlin Jill was on MSNBC spewing her poison.

[videohead5]

36. Remember

She said Hillary would be worse than Trump.no way would Hillary ever have been worse than Trump,not even close.

[Warpy]

38. It's even more amazing that so many Democrats seem to think she's relevant

and start so many threads about here at DU.

She's a Green, not a Democrat. She and her party are irrelevant. If they did not exist, those votes would still not go to Democrats. They'd abstain or be write ins or find another splinter party to back.

Sheesh.

[emulatorloo]

42. Trash thread is a handy feature

[progressoid]

76. THIS

[DinahMoeHum]

39. GREEN Party: Getting Republicans Elected Every November

[George II]

45. I like that. Not her, but your expression.

[L. Coyote]

51. Greens for more green: Taking Republican money to take Dem votes.

[George II]

44. She's no better than trump or Flynn.

[bresue]

46. It is amazing more people are not upset and tell jill off

[L. Coyote]

47. The Ralph Nader of 2016.

The Greens love them a lot of that Republican and Russian green.

[NurseJackie]

48. Jill Stein and anyone who endorsed her or voted for her can GO FUCK THEMSELVES!

You know who I'm talking about. I don't need to name-names.

[denbot]

49. I've been saying that here about the Greens since 2001.

They have played the same role in our elections each year. If it gets close they are cover for the .01%, and the hijacking of an election.

[Iliyah]

52. Russian investigation knocking at her door.

[elleng]

53. What's amazing is that anyone would spend any time now discussing her.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

56. Hers are the Left version of Trumpers, not Bernie.

There is a lesson here. Purity can lead to tragedy.

[ehrnst]

60. Stein targeted Hillary more than she did DT.

Stein is a naked opportunist.

If Hillary had been photographed sharing a table with Comrade Flynn, she would have been crucified even more than she was by the far left - Especially if she would have won. Hillary would have been called a Putin stooge.



http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696

[Doodley]

61. Jill Stein is not the enemy.

[hrmjustin]

66. What is she then?

[Doodley]

105. She was a candidate. It is called democracy. What kind of democracy has a choice of only two?

[hrmjustin]

107. She is also our adversary.

[Doodley]

108. I agree, but some of the nastiness, the abuse and conspiracy theories aimed at her don't help.

We won't be better than Trump by becoming like him.

[hrmjustin]

109. Jill Stein deserves everything she gets here.

[Doodley]

112. Are you saying you are prepared to defend every single comment on this thread about Jill Stein?

[hrmjustin]

113. Your concern for Jill Stein is noted!

[Doodley]

116. I am not concerned in the slightest about Jill Stein. What concerns me is people who act like Trump

by calling her names and being abusive. We need to be better than Trump.

[JI7]

83. Her goal is to help republicans win

[Demsrule86]

94. Kremlin Jill is the enemy...and is not 'Green'. The Greens are like yellow snow

and should change their name to the Piss Yellow spoilers club...and then go fuck themselves.

[Doodley]

106. There is no evidence she is working for the Kremlin. Do you want a two-party state.

If you go to the supermarket, do you want a choice of more than two cereals, two breads, two cheeses? If you buy a car, do you want a choice of more than two types of car? Maybe you think we should ban all candidates other than Democrats and Republicans? I am by far no fan of Jill Stein, but it is far fetched to blame her.

[DanTex]

118. Here's what you are missing. We already have a two-party state.

I don't actually want that, I would prefer a proportional representation system. But that would require a change to the constitution. And if Jill Stein actually cared about giving voters more choices, instead of running spoiler campaigns designed to help Republicans win elected office (and now they've succeeded twice in putting Republicans in the White House), instead she would advocate for replacing our governmental system with a proportional representation parliament.

That's the problem with your silly supermarket analogy (well one of the problems). When you pick a cereal from the store, you get to actually have that cereal when you get home. But anyone who falls for Green Party rhetoric and votes for them doesn't get to have a Green president. Green Party supporters aren't helping Greens win elected office. They are helping the Republicans win elected office.

And this isn't some big secret. Everyone knows that the only role third parties can possibly play is as spoilers. Jill Stein is pretending to give a third choice, but in reality she is wrapping the GOP up in her Green Party rhetoric. She does it intentionally and knowingly. Her goal was never to be president, it was to pull enough voters away from the Democratic candidate so that Trump became president.

And she succeeded. Which is why she makes comments about how great her campaign was. If she was really trying to be president, and she got less than 2% of the vote and zero electoral votes, she would be instead saying, no, my campaign was a miserable failure, we didn't get anywhere close to our goal. But that wasn't her goal. Her goal was helping Trump win, and that's why she's happy with how things turned out.

[LiberalLovinLug]

150. Of course the Green party wants proportional representation

It is the only way a smaller party can ever win a seat.

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.751549

"And to move away from the two-party system, she supports eliminating "winner take all races," instead allowing for proportional representation."


It would interesting to see how the negativity would go down if Democrats actually needed to cooperate with Greens to gain power as in other countries. Here in my province British Columbia, for the first time ever, we have what we call a minority government. The BCLiberals (who are arch conservatives) won just two seats more than the more progressive NDP. But the Greens won three seats. Hooray! Because then the NDP and the Greens formed a coalition to form government. I see nothing wrong with this. I think it healthy to have more parties, more forced compromise for parties representing different voter concerns. The Greens will push the NDP towards greener legislation. That is not a bad thing.

It would be nice to see the US one day enact a PR system so those parties more to the left of center could be, although still competitive, allies towards basically the same progressive goals. And their leaders wouldn't be so misrepresented and shat upon.

[DanTex]

154. You are still missing the point. Entirely.

Without proportional representation, the Greens are nothing but allies of the GOP. I'm sure you're right about the dynamics in BC. And you're right that "it would be nice" to see the US enact PR.

But we don't have that. And the Greens know it. And they know they are taking votes from Dems and helping the GOP win. And they keep doing it. And they keep doing it on purpose.

So calling them GOP allies is not misrepresenting them. It's exactly what they are doing.

Yes, they get shat on. They deserve to be shat on. As much as any other GOP ally does.

[The Genealogist]

103. The hell she isn't!

[GulfCoast66]

110. Because I do not see any American as an 'Enemy' then I agree

But I do see some Americans as rat-bastard motherfuckers who will trade everything for personal profit. And Stein personifies that description. Seeing her at that event in Russia with her fellow sellout traitor Flynn is classic and highlights what motivates Green leadership in America.

And those who follow her...well they are all peas in a pod. At least she got paid.

[Doodley]

111. When you say she was "with" Flynn. Do you have any evidence she even talked to him?

[GulfCoast66]

138. Right.

I guess she was just there for the soufflé.

[MrPurple]

62. Ralph Nader was a sincere candidate in 2000, but after that result they should have seen 2016 coming

When the alternative is as horrendous as Trump and the polling was as close as it was, they should have had the sense to back off. And, in terms of a quality candidate, Jill Stein is no Ralph Nader.

[Demsrule86]

95. Ralph Nader was just as bad ...two wars, massive tax cuts for the wealthy, 8 million jobs

shipped overseas, Katrina deaths,United and it ended with economic collapse. He elected Bush...none of it would have happened with President Gore. It wasn't just Nader either...the Greens mocked Gore relentlessly and helped contribute to his loss and out loss and the country's loss. Fuck Nader and the Greens.

[Gore1FL]

63. It's more amazing that people feel the need to bring her up at all.

As far as whether they are allies or not, well they certainly won't be if people insist on condemning them all the time.

I, personally, am fucking tired of losing elections and to that end don't think it's wise to perpetuate divisions.

[hrmjustin]

67. She popped up today on TV and said she made a big contribution to the 2016 race.

I think it was a negative impact.

[Gore1FL]

90. If, as you proclaim in your OP, "They are NOT our allies!!!"

What was the negative impact? If "They are NOT our allies!!!" then it's not like we should have expect our votes. If "They are NOT our allies!!!" then perhaps she took votes from Trump.

Or maybe, they are our allies and we need to do a better job of outreach and hold of on continuing months of condemnation.

You don't win future elections by driving people away and assuring that you have forever lost their vote.



It's about damn time we started building up our side rather than seeking ways to further our divisions.

[JI7]

68. She is a troll that wants republicans to win

[JHan]

69. As a rule I dislike people who contribute to worse outcomes for myself, my family, and my community.

Jill Stein's fuckery contributed to Trump being elected.

So yes, fuck Jill Stein.

[liberalnarb]

77. Why waste the time? She's irrelevant.

With the monumental threat in Washington why are we spending time dividing the Left?

[hrmjustin]

80. She deserves our condemnation! She ran a dishonest campaign and deserves to be

called out on it.

She not the greens are our allies.

[liberalnarb]

81. Just let her fade into the void. Don't waste time on her.

She just wants attention.

[larry budwell]

82. Stein and Trump are the enemies

Fuck them both !

[steve2470]

85. totally agree!

BTW Justin, did you catch Anderson Cooper on CNN with his Pulse special ? He was almost in real tears several times. He rocks.

[kristopher]

86. Maybe the problem isn't 3rd party candidates

There are always going to be voters who are dissatisfied with the main choices but who still want to participate in the process. And it's always the case that being hateful towards others is a bad way to gain their support; I mean what do you want them to do, stay home?
So I'd like to bring up a point Stein raised in Witt's interview with her yesterday as it's a belief I've long held after learning how parliamentary elections are often handled.

Voters should be able to select both a first choice and a second choice on the ballot. If their first choice isn't one of the top two, then their vote goes to their designated second choice. I feel strongly that it would increase voter turnout dramatically and improve the responsiveness of the two major parties to public concerns.

Of course, my first preference would be to scrap the presidential system altogether and move to a well structured parliamentary system. Every presidential election the main thrust of campaigning isn't the issues, it a grudge match over who gets to be the Royal Family for the next 4 years. Seriously, the presidential race is always a complete sham as a part of the policy process because policy is hard but we're (generically) programmed to throw ourselves into emotional decisions where personalities are the main focus of voter education.

I wouldn't throw away my vote on a third party candidate under our present system, but I do understand the frustration that drives some to follow that course. I think we'd get further by advocating to accommodate the inevitable need for wider ballot choice than we will ever get by being mean and nasty to anyone.

[Demsrule86]

96. In one word...NO.

[KTM]

165. In one word, yes.

Preferential voting would change American politics for the better.

[potone]

87. Jill Stein is inconsequential.

What we need to focus on for the next election is motivating the people who stayed home last time to vote. That was what cost us the election, not the tiny percentage of the electorate who voted for Stein. If she runs again, she will have even less credibility after all the horrors that Trump has unleashed on us.

[Cha]

88. That's too bad. stein is a Liar..

a fucked up Liar. she fucked with our election.. got the suckers to believe her stupid LIES that Hillary was worse than trump. Stupid

[Lunabell]

89. She isn't a Democrat.

Fuck her.

[struggle4progress]

99. .

[Alice11111]

102. She is a paid traitor, IMO, sitting at RT w Flynn and Putin

[elocs]

104. Jill Stein is in it for Jill Stein and always was.

Stein's vote total here in Wisconsin was greater than Trump's margin of victory. No, she wasn't solely responsible for Trump winning the state but she sure did help. Call it depraved indifference.
The simple truth is that there was only 1 candidate who could have stopped Trump from becoming president and so anybody on the Left who chose not to vote for that candidate only ended up helping Trump to become president--explain it away as much as you try and claim there is no blood on your hands when there is.

[Alea]

114. FJS

[Expecting Rain]

115. I worked briefly with some Greens in Santa Monica

decades back.

It became pretty clear to me pretty quickly that most of the "poor progressive activists" had rich parents in Brentwood and other swanky neighborhoods.

No crime in that per se, but when I found out they were collecting food under the name "Food Not Bombs" and then stealing the best of it to throw parties for their slacker friends, I was done for all time with the Green party.

Fuck Jill Stein.

[Honeycombe8]

119. Well,I've seen a couple of posts about her. They don't specify what's being complained about.

Just a diatribe against someone for...something. Hate for hate's sake is never cool. That's what the far right is for.

[hrmjustin]

130. Yesterday she said she played a big part in the campaign.

[Honeycombe8]

131. What campaign? Where was she when she said that? On tv? MSNBC?

See, that's what I mean. Just vague references, like those stating Susteren is a "fascist."

[hrmjustin]

132. On MSNBC yesterday Alex With asked her how she felt about her(Stein) role in the 2016 campaign.

She said she played a big part in it.

After that I turned it off.

[still_one]

136. It is pretty clear what the main complaint is. Every opportunity she had she distorted and lied

about Hilary, telling us that Hillary's foreign policy was worse than trumps, and her bullshit false equivalencies between the two

This was the same tactic her mentor Ralph Nader applied, that there was "no difference between the republicans and Democrats"

You would have thought after bush, people would have learned their lesson, but with her attention seeking tactics, the media was only too willing to allow Ms. Stein to spew her false equivalencies, unchallenged.

The media is still giving her more attention and opportunities to spew her bullshit than she deserves. I would argue that they spend more time on Jill Stein then they do covering law enforcement shooting a person of color.

Stein deserves every bit of criticism that is hurled at her, based on the attention she goes out of her way to exploit, with the false double standard she constantly spews.

She has taken great pains to express skepticism that the Kremlin meddled in the 2016 election, in spite of the fact that the FBI and others have sworn under oath that such interference occurred.

In fact, President Obama, Harry Reid, John Lewis, and other members of Congress have confirmed such interference without going into details because of an active investigation in progress. I will sure as heck take their assessment before I listen to the assessment of Ms. Stein who tells us their is no difference between republicans and Democrats.

Just tell that to those who lose their health care, when are environmental protections are decimated, that there is no differences between the two parties. Tell that to those whose civil rights, women's rights, workers rights are rolled back 100 years, or the SC that will be with us for decades to come.

Sorry, but there is plenty to criticize and "hate" Stein for, not the least is her lying about the Democratic party

[haele]

126. But, she said a lot of progressive things, so she must be good...

And she criticized Wall Street, so she must be Progressive...

Her history and actions shows she's just as much an autocrat as Lenin - ignore the individual well being for the good of the state because *she* knows all the answers, and if we all just follow her plans, the Country would be just right - for her and her friends.
A little bit of wealth goes to some people's heads, and Stein is one of those who can't see outside the self-realized snow globe that enables her to operate from her comfort zone rather than the real world most everyone else has to live in.

Haele

[lark]

128. Yep, I got attacked by one of her supporters for saying Stein was a friend of Putins.

Happened just last Friday.

[dlk]

135. Breaking Bread With Putin Was a Tell

Jill Stein gave herself away when, as an un-elected citizen, sat down to dinner with Putin. The false moral outrage at any criticism of her actions is also very telling. There are much more critical issues to be contended with.

[INdemo]

144. What was she doing in Russia..her excuse ..well no one in our group

spoke Russian...

[MarianJack]

145. No anti-vaccine loon who...

...sat at a dinner table with Putin and Flynn will ever be an ally of mine!

PEACE!

[philly_bob]

148. Group Hate exercise begins. HATE HATE HATE

Feel better?

[hrmjustin]

152. Yes thank you I do.

[Voltaire2]

151. She is not the problem.

The problem is the Fake President in the White House.

[BainsBane]

160. Except that she and those like her

are committed to giving him a second term. So that makes her part of the problem. We have a considerable segment of the public very happy that they helped put the GOP in charge of everything, not because they call themselves Republicans but because they pretend to be progressive but prefer Trump to Democrats. That makes them the same as the GOP politically, if not perhaps for a greater level of mendacity and narcissism.

Anyone working to see people die or suffer for their own advantage, be it financial or to affirm their egos, is a problem. We live in a country where far too many are anxious to sacrifice the lives and well-being of others, never themselves, because they ultimately cannot arrive at a place where other human beings matter enough. That is certainly true for Stein and every other narcissist who refused to vote Democrat in the GE out of what they call "principle" but is clearly the opposite of that.

Stein is allied with Trump. She excuses his abuses and policies. She provides cover for the GOP by blaming the Democrats, even when every single one of them vote against a bill. Her talking points on the Russian collusion are identical to Sean Hannity and Newt Gingrich. So if Trump is the problem, how is she not the problem?

[Voltaire2]

161. They are ineffective and irrelevant.

Wasting our time bashing the green party does nothing to address the real problems we have getting the Democratic Party back in power.

[hrmjustin]

155. Your concern for Jill Stein is noted!

[hrmjustin]

157. Jill Stein is a Putin/Trump tool and deserves our condemnation!

[BainsBane]

159. I think we can all guess why that is.

[Kentonio]

162. I'd ask people to stop with the pointless attacks

Not because I give a rats ass about Jill Stein, but because they inevitable build up into people calling Green voters enemies and insulting them. That's nothing short of damn stupid. There's a decent number of Green voters who could be won over for future elections, and turning them away in a fit of pique is counter-productive and idiotic.