I don't ever recall anyone on DU upset by Al Franken and

[madinmaryland]

his book "Rush Limbaugh is Big Fat Idiot". In fact there are many here advocating he run for president in 2020.

[BlueCaliDem]

1. Yeah, but we had a different crowd back in the mid-90's, didn't we?

Now we have, um, a much different crowd - one that chases longtime DU-Dems away.

[Adrahil]

2. Yeah, I guess I'm just a snowflake, right? NT

[NCTraveler]

10. Who are these people running away from DU?

Seems like a pretty shallow view of our long-time members.

[Akamai]

35. yup -- I don't see much signs of people being run off. I might be wrong, though.

[BlueCaliDem]

54. Were you asleep during the 2008 and 2016 primaries??????

Jesus fucking Christ Almighty.

[NCTraveler]

56. Part of the time.

I can't stay awake for more than about two days straight. I'm not sure where the almighty fits in but who am I to question your religious doctrine.

[BlueCaliDem]

57. You know what I meant.

[NCTraveler]

58. Too funny.

Thank you.

[stonecutter357]

28. RWNJ's and russian trolls will never run me OFF....

[BlueCaliDem]

55. There were just too many during 2008 & 2016 primaries. Longtime DUers who are actual

(and proven) Democrats were mercilessly attacked, ganged up on with alerts, and forcefully removed.

The bolder one's returned but too many didn't and found homes elsewhere.

[Sneederbunk]

4. Franken's book was published in 1996. The DU refined sensibilities

Did not take hold until it was launched in 2001.

[yallerdawg]

5. Al Franken is/was a comedian.

"Noblesse oblige" not required!

And we used to "fight fire with fire," until everyone began to cry and whine in their little clusters of 'social justice warriors' and 'safe spaces.'

[Historic NY]

18. OMG such sensitive people...

Last edited Tue Jul 4, 2017, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

no wonder they call us libtards. I'm fat and I couldn't careless, my former co-worker is really fat and he doesn't give a flying f--k. in fact he makes money off being fat. He's a comedian, a real 5ft by 5ft Italian. Its not like people are out on the street corner pointing and calling you a fat f--k. Ok well maybe he's 5.4 X 5.4.

Besides who were we talking about that fat f--k Chris Christie....

[Skittles]

22. the expression is COULDN'T care less

and I hope you know you and your friend do not represent all overweight folk

[MyOwnPeace]

41. Grammatically speaking,

you are correct.
However, (as I once questioned a newspaper editor about the same point) the expression came out of WW2 and WAS "I could care less" and became an accepted idiom/figure of speech.
Either way (you say "eether" - I say "Ither" ) - we do get the point!

[Skittles]

44. I COULD CARE LESS makes no sense

unless you are literally saying you DO care, somewhat

[MyOwnPeace]

45. I AGREE!!!!!

but that's how it came down - and to some minds it means the same thing!

[Owl]

40. +1 nt

[Sneederbunk]

6. Come on aren't we all comedians here?

[Buns_of_Fire]

26. Some nights the audience eats the veal, some nights the audience eats you.

-- Widely attributed to Rutherford B. Hayes, but I have my doubts.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Apparently Chris Christie is such a fine example of humanity, he needs to be protected from jokes.

He's doing important, godly work, shutting down bridges and sending terminally ill pot smokers to prison.

[Adrahil]

11. Yeah, this isn't about Christie.

It's about millions of fat people like me who hear, "yeah, fat is worthy of ridicule. Never forget it."

Do what you want with that. If insulting the man's weight is worth insulting others, whether you meant to or not, then that decision is on you. But you can;t say now that didn't know. You DO know now and are making a deliberate choice.

I know a woman who thinks it's okay to call black people the N-word and she thinks it's okay because she doesn't mean anything bad by it. And she thinks black people who feel insulted are not being reasonable.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. I've said it repeatedly: Christie uses "unhealthy habits" to justify sending pot smokers to prison.

So yeah, the man's morbidly obese hypocrisy on that matter is relevant to the political discussion. He's not in any position to finger-wag at some Boulder resident with a 22 BMI who hikes, mountain bikes, and recreationally uses cannabis.

What's that quote? "Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them"? I know medical marijuana users who need cannabis to survive. People like Chris Christie not only want to send them to prison, they want to kill them. Lets call it what it is. The drug war kills.

So... while people make fun of Chris Christie for eating way too many donuts, no one is gonna send him to prison for them.

[treestar]

17. People by nature are only offended if

someone out of ill will calls them fat personally.

If Christie were a liberal we would not care about his weight (Example Michael Moore).

If Ryan were a liberal, we wouldn't laugh and call him Eddie Munster, likewise Yertle the Turtle.

Donald's hair is fodder for countless jokes and names. If Donald had Bernie's platform, we wouldn't notice it.

I think we who are overweight consider it temporary, also, we aren't really overweight. I think this may explain why I don't feel bad about myself when Christie is called fat.

If it were someone I did like, (I think Al Gore got some of this), then I probably would dislike the right winger mentioning it.

Then again, when it comes to women, it's a whole different thing. Call Hillary fat and I will bring out the pitchforks.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. There is probably a relevant Eleanor Roosevelt quote in there, somewhere.

Still, I'll repeat myself: Christie's weight and health is particularly relevant to the political discussion because he's positively gleeful at the idea of sending perfectly healthy cannabis users to prison on the basis of "bad lifestyle habits".

Sort of how if some right-wing politician is on a crusade to ban nudity, porn, or gay marriage, their hypocrisy in the bedroom becomes an actual issue. Look at Newt Gingrich thundering about Bill Clinton's infidelity and then going home to his mistress.

I will always stand up for the rights of individuals to make their own decisions about their own bodies. If someone wants to be fat, or certainly even if they feel their physiology makes it inevitable, that's their business.

Unfortunately we have too many authoritarians who feel entitled to dictate what others do with their bodies.

[haele]

59. There's also a bit of Alice Roosevelt's relevency in DU, also...

Balancing satire/snark with serious politics.
Some people are serious politicians. Some people are court jesters - which play an equally serious political role.

I tend to side with the court jesters - because if I didn't, I'd get so depressed I'd quit. So in my "well-rounded" personal opinion, hypocrisy should always be pointed out and belittled to take some of the power away from those who abuse it.

And if I'm being a hypocrite, I don't get offended much when I'm called out, because I'm self-aware enough to know that being a hypocrite paints a huge florescent target on one - no matter how big one is...

Haele
(Very much shaped like a Pillsbury Dough-girl...the sign of a great cook!)

[George II]

30. Christie jokes about it himself:

[Adrahil]

31. Oh, it's okay then!

Wait.... no it's not.

[Akamai]

36. I saw this really thoughtful sign posted outside a courtroom here in Portland, Oregon that said:

"Please feel free to notify the court of the correct pronunciation of your name and preferred pronoun."

Good going Multnomah County Court House!!!!

[deurbano]

46. Yes, like the use of "retard". Insulting innocent people to get to a (in this case) guilty target.

And that orange piece of slime isn't "guilty" for being fat (though he IS guilty of hypocritically attacking others for being fat, living in that glass house and all), but for his abhorrent behavior. I'm all for mocking him for his grotesque behavior, mannerisms, hair "style," chosen skin color, wardrobe, vocabulary, etc.-- just not a physical characteristic like being overweight, when the point seems to be that it in some way adds to his repulsiveness. I do think he should be called out on his hypocrisy about weight and appearance, but not in a way that shames others.

I actually did have a problem with Franken's title, even though the whole point was Limbaugh's hypocrisy, but the nuance of that would be lost on the Limbaugh crowd, and even many liberals don't seem too concerned with fat bashing, so using "fat" in that way just seems to reinforce fat as a stigma.

[Motownman78]

39. Too many PC Principal's out there.

&t=1s

[NCTraveler]

8. I don't see the connection of...

Last edited Tue Jul 4, 2017, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Being against fat shaming and supporting Franken for President. I don't think I will ever get the purists mentality.

[Alice11111]

29. It's inconsistent

[NCTraveler]

32. My apologies.

What's inconsistent?

[Loki Liesmith]

9. Say what you want

If it's not against TOS who cares what people say about you?

If it is against TOS the problem solves itself.

This is why I'm glad I score high on measures of sociopathy.

[Adrahil]

12. For what it's worth, I DID complain about that...

... but I don't condemn a person for one transgression, or even many small transgressions. I didn't like Colbert's "cock holster" attack either, even though he is one of my heroes today. I don't condemn anyone here. I just want them to acknowledge that fat-shaming hurts people like me. If they decide to keep doing it, that's on them.

[mwooldri]

13. When has been stating the facts been a problem?

Al Franken is definitely not "bodyshaming" anyone here, not even the aforementioned Rush Limbaugh. After all he is big. He is obese. And he is an idiot. Those who disagree are more likely to take issue with the "idiot" part.

[loyalsister]

14. celebrating ridicule is where Limbaugh started

And that style of opposition, as well as defending it brought us Trump.
Turns out it isn't unique to his constituency. Some of us appreciate manners and civility that reflect kindness and go a little beyond the TOS. I used to believe people here had higher standards in that regard, but it seems to be as infected with that style as anywhere else.

[treestar]

16. What was fat was his idiocy

"big fat" in combo is used to indicate largeness. You are a big fat idiot, means you are not just an idiot on a small scale.

[octoberlib]

24. +1

An example would be "shut your big, fat mouth". Meaning someone who talks alot and/or loudly and offensively. Said person doesn't literally have a fat mouth.

[Warpy]

19. Declaring war against words is a fairly new thing

that arose on college campuses in the early to mid 00s, the young finding it much easier to shame their elders over descriptive language than actually getting off their butts to do things like vote.

So yes, the early years on DU were definitely a different crowd. The language warriors moved off the campuses and onto political and social sites in the late 00s and insisted on full censorship of any word they didn't like, and some days it seems like they don't like most of them, preferring to turn language into the equivalent of a bad painting of cows on a hillside, bland and non controversial.

While I do agree that fat shaming ordinary people is wrong, I will hazard to point out that word shaming one's elders is at least as rude. And public figures, especially the ones who habitually fat shame other people, need to be reminded that they, too, are far from perfect.

And the bottom line is that I'm fat, as is anyone else who's been on Prednisone for more than 20 years. I'd rather wince once in a while when someone else points that out than suffer censorship of any kind.

[Adrahil]

33. I'm not censoring anyone.

But I am insulted by fat shaming and I think people who do it should know that. If they choose to continue fat-shaming, then they do it knowing they are insulting me.

[broadcaster90210]

20. I'm confused as to the point.

nt

[rurallib]

38. My guess is fat shaming Chris Christie

sometimes it's like you walk into the middle of a conversation on this board.

Welcome to DU

[broadcaster90210]

50. Ah.

Ha! Yes it is. Makes sense to me now. Def felt like I was walking into the middle on that one. Thanks formthe clarification.

Thank you!

[GoCubsGo]

23. Should we be upset with Nia Vardalos, as well?

She wrote the screen plays to, and starred in "My Big, Fat Greek Wedding" and it's sequel, "My Big, Fat Greek Wedding 2."

[treestar]

25. Exactly, I think the term "big fat" means large

and it is the wedding that was "big fat" and with Rushbo, it is his idiocy that was referenced as "big fat" and could have been said no matter what Rush's weight.

[GoCubsGo]

42. Yep, it doesn't always pertain to a person's weight.

Gimme a big, fat kiss. I got a big, fat F on that test. Trump told yet another big, fat lie...

As for Al Franken, having read his book, I know he meant it both ways regarding Limbaugh. He did poke fun at Limbaugh's weight. Having been on the receiving end of a ton of fat-shaming myself, I don't like it when it's used on others. But, when it comes to individuals who mock and shame people for anything and everything, I make an exception. If they can dish it out, they should be made to take it. That includes Limbaugh, Christie and Trump. Fuck 'em. With Trump, all the more so, since he hates it so much to be laughed at and mocked. But, frankly, I think mocking their weight is the lowest-hanging fruit, and not worth picking, given that there's a whole lot more worth going after with these assholes.

[treestar]

47. I agree, the way they do it to

women is the one thing I can get behind - they are asserting a double standard there. Don't know if Rush does it. And when they claim feminists are fat or otherwise unattractive women.

[oberliner]

27. Perhaps because DU didn't exist when that book was published?

That might have something to do with it.

[Owl]

34. Love Al Franken!

[mythology]

37. You are aware times change right? That we are capable of learning from past mistakes

I don't like that Bill Clinton couldn't stop cheating on Hillary Clinton and find that to be a moral failing. Doesn't mean if I were old enough to have voted in 1992 or 1996 I wouldn't have voted for Bill Clinton.

But also as others have pointed out, the big fat is descriptive to the word idiot. The title isn't "Rush Limbaugh is a big, fat, idiot" or "Rush Limbaugh is big and fat."

It boggles my mind that this is a subject for debate. There are functionally countless reasons to dislike Trump and Christie that have to do with their actual policies, things they do. This junior high level "oh he's fat and he's on a beach, lets call him a whale" should be beneath us. If that's the worst thing I can say about Chris Christie, I'm both lacking in imagination (if I'm going for an insult calling him something like a simpering sanctimonious schmuck or baneful boorish bully is far more fun) and in an ability to express legitimate policy disagreements in a way that shows I actually have a grasp of what I'm talking about.

[treestar]

48. The whale jokes are decidedly not original

I see them pop up in every thread on the subject.

[nolabear]

43. We've been taught not to even notice it even as everything we do is in response.

I'd advise against the "it's only abuse because you take it the wrong way" argument. If someone tells you something hurts them the kind and compassionate thing to do is to stop, not to point out how it was okay when HE did it.

[LanternWaste]

49. I don't recall the use of Juvenalian Satire on DU...

I don't recall the use of Juvenalian Satire on DU as used by Franken... in fact, many here advocated the righteousness of intolerance in and of itself.

The self-styled oppression and fictional persecution in the thread about 'The History of White People in American' by Martin Mull truly illustrates the dramatic ignorance of the difference between satire and bigoted behavior.

[Orsino]

51. Twain and LBJ got away with worse words, but that was also before DU. n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

52. I'm miffed DU gave Tolstoy a pass.

[Gothmog]

53. I love that book