Tue Jul 4, 2017, 11:01 PM

In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by attacking the Dem party from the left?

I am counting from 1999 to present since Nader declared before 2000.

I've heard a few arguments for attacking Democrats from the left that all seem bad.

Does anyone think the country has been "pushed to the left" by the actions of those trying to do so? Has the Democratic party been pushed to the left?

If you can't answer yes to those questions, isn't attacking the Democratic Party from the left an epic and unadulterated failure?

And why is it that those folks are allowed to attack the Democratic Party from the left but if we respond to them in kind, some folks accuse us of being divisive? Why do some folks here think that is OK?

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809 replies	Author	Time	Post
In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by attacking the Dem party from the left? (Original post)	stevenleser	Jul 2017	OP
they got what they wanted with Bush and Trump	JI7	Jul 2017	#1
+1 nt	Kahuna7	Jul 2017	#157
+2 eom	BlueCaliDem	Jul 2017	#336
Rubbish.	SusanaMontana41	Jul 2017	#379
Consider Nader's impact on New Hampshire voting in 2000.	VOX	Jul 2017	#399
OK. Knock down No. 1 if you like.	SusanaMontana41	Jul 2017	#401
I'm in complete agreement with you on those.	VOX	Jul 2017	#425
!!! Of course, the Dems never want to "look " bad, and it	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#612
50% or it was Nader not seeing "the big picture". 50% was THIS PARTY not seeing the big picture.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#446
I agree. I am so tired of this bullshit argument.	aquamarina	Jul 2017	#404
Thank you.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#583
Plus, 4. SCOTUS, contrary to the Florida SupCrt's legit decision,	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#607
They just simply don't give a damn - vanity is of the utmost importance to them.	kerry-is-my-prez	Jul 2017	#701
From the "left" with LIES.	Cha	Jul 2017	#2
What has been accomplished by attacking people who vote Green?	Warpy	Jul 2017	#3
Hopefully, what is accomplished is informing would-be Green voters of how useless the Green	DanTex	Jul 2017	#15
+10000	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#358
More likely it will create another few decades of animosity from people whose support we could use.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#435
For some reason, I don't hear Green apologists use that same argument when it comes to	DanTex	Jul 2017	#481
They aren't trying to build a coalition of voters to support Democrats.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#496
I'm talking about people like you, who are defending the Green party.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#509
I'm not defending the green party. I am defending the Democratic party.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#577
Well then stop whimpering and whining about the poor Green Party's hurt feelings.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#587
Well, I'll give you points for trying.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#622
LOL. OK, let me rephrase it for you.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#630
I am not talking about Jill Stein or Susan Collins	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#641
This OP is about Stien, Nader, the Green Party, and the rest of the far left.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#693
Let's find a way to bridge that gap then between Dem candidates and would-be third-party voters.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#699
Let's find a way to bridge the gap between Dems and moderate Republicans.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#705
We've been trying that since 1988	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#715
Not remotely true. The Dems did try it in the 90s (successfully).	DanTex	Jul 2017	#719
If you consider losing the House and Senate "success" I guess we were....	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#723
I consider winning the house and senate a success. Also winning the presidency.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#725
2006 wasn't in the 90s. Howard Dean's 50 state strategy deserves the credit	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#727
Yes, 2006 wasn't in the 90s. Excellent point.	DanTex	Jul 2017	#728
Don't expect them to listen to you then. And don't expect to make a positive difference.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#730
Exactly...they are the enemies of Democrats as much as Republicans. In fact Greens prefer	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#645
The Stein people worked with Russia and did their best to help trump	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#654
They did...I fail to see how some defend them. I can't stand them and get a bit irrational on the	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#659
If so them voting for stein wouldn't have mattered then.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#677
Some are not the smartest, for sure. Their arguments	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#619
I'm trying to figure out what it is that you're really saying	Cary	Jul 2017	#25
Some folks, Michael Moore among them, learn the lesson. He voted Nader. He wont make that mistake	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#85
We can't end the Greens by trying to browbeat Green voters into backing the Dem presidential ticket	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#344
It might...we need to up our efforts.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#359
We can't win anyone over through spewing bile and assigning blame.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#439
I agree and the Greens and our revolution should shut the fuck up.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#483
Yeah, Michael Moore, Sarah Silverman &Bill Maher	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#613
Yes we have to stop pretending that Greens are potential allies...they are not and educate those	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#646
It's worth a try to educate them as Michael Moore &Bill	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#737
I agree...I think stimatizing them would help reduce their effectiveness ..no one wants to belong to	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#741
Exactly. People don't like being insulted	treestar	Jul 2017	#164
You mean "WAH! He did it too?"	Warpy	Jul 2017	#318
Yes Greens are akin to four year olds...it is true....the third party riffraff has no patience with	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#361
So the left gets to complain about being insulted,	treestar	Jul 2017	#380
It isn't a good way to get independents or non-Democrats to vote for Dems, that's for sure.	alarimer	Jul 2017	#172
HRC had fantastic ideas and policy points. Hopefully you and everybody else here is familiar?	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#306
HRC DID have good ideas...and the fall platform(with many Sanders things added)was excellent	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#350
can t respond without being banned	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#353
check your pms...we'll talk about it there.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#356
I know that	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#621
Ken: HRC brought tons of policy to the debates and to the campaign trail. Media minimized policy,	emulatorloo	Jul 2017	#387
The campaign didn't bring them to the ads...the ads were predominately about attacking Trump.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#392
Maybe. OTOH which Trump ads, speeches, debate appearances presented policy	emulatorloo	Jul 2017	#398
I don't defend the Trump ads on policy, and I don't defend the Trump campaign on anything.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#406
I agree.	Caliman73	Jul 2017	#572
The media played a role...but the media will ALWAYS play a role.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#575
Agree again.	Caliman73	Jul 2017	#576
Thank you. This is the kind of exchange I'm looking for.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#582
Why, Donnie appreciated the efforts of Green Party voters.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#364
Neither does nominating liberals in red states like the three candidate Sen. Sanders endorsed. They	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#484
Yeah, but most people who call themselves independents	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#620
The greens gave us the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#191
THANK YOU. Green voters are unwittingly (or maybe wittingly) allies of GOP power-grab in the U.S.	BlueCaliDem	Jul 2017	#331
A vote for Stein was a vote for trump	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#348
Steiners will never own up to that.	BlueCaliDem	Jul 2017	#352
Plus, I bet anything she was helped by Putin. Just like	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#617
No doubt about it. And the fact that she frothed at the mouth whenever she spoke of HRC	BlueCaliDem	Jul 2017	#639
Her votes made a difference. It is all so obvious.	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#736
#Sad	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#207
Thank you	hueymahl	Jul 2017	#230
Thank you so much	Kimchijeon	Jul 2017	#240
There's a better way to have a 3rd party be effective	crazycatlady	Jul 2017	#244
There is no reason for spoiler third parties in a two party system.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#485
WFP is not a spoiler third party	crazycatlady	Jul 2017	#556
You say 'some' Democrats...sorry. Democrats are the only vehicle that get progressive policy e	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#647
One reason Macron won in France, is the French have an	Alice11111	Jul 2017	#618
The left leadership refused to back Macron.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#648
If Greens won't vote Dem they are useless to us.	VermontKevin	Jul 2017	#251
Greens are spoilers... they cost Democrats elections...they throw elections to the Republicans	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#357
I started to list something really argumentative	Nevernose	Jul 2017	#4
Just do it.	Cary	Jul 2017	#28
Hi Cary. Vote Democratic always!	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#667
How can any thinking person not vote for any democrat, in any election, as if their	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#309
Down ticket, I agree with you.	SusanaMontana41	Jul 2017	#385
That is a very good point...	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#486
the country has been pushed to the left, but since the party was determined to stay center-right....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#5
so Russ Feingold is center right ?	JI7	Jul 2017	#12
I never said that every member of the party was center-right	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#20
i think the fact that so called progressives/liberals didn't vote for him proves they are not	JI7	Jul 2017	#21
Progressives and Liberals did vote for him.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#29
i wonder why that is not much of a concern of those who attack the democratic party and use the	JI7	Jul 2017	#30
What I wonder is why it has not been a concern for the Democratic Party.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#32
it is a concern for the party and something the Obama admin and Clinton had worked on	JI7	Jul 2017	#35
first, they failed.....second, they didn't hang it around the neck of the republican party	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#46
Jill Stein kept the money for herself . her intention was never about counting the votes	JI7	Jul 2017	#49
Jill Stein was talking about the evils of Operation Crosscheck during the campaign...	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#55
Stein is a troll that kept the money for herself.	JI7	Jul 2017	#56
you avoid my question...why was Jill Stein, and not Democrats attacking operation crosscheck.....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#59
Nader did lie about Gore . democrats need to be in power to get change. Charlie Crist was Governor	JI7	Jul 2017	#60
you still avoid the elephant in the room.....Democratic Party inaction on the REAL reason......	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#62
they do deserve to be called out for their lies. democrats in power in california HAVE made things	JI7	Jul 2017	#63
California can't win national elections for us.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#65
no state can win national elections by themselves . but California sure contributes a lot to doing	JI7	Jul 2017	#66
What is the national party doing?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#69
many things, depends on what specifically	JI7	Jul 2017	#72
about voter suppression	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#73
We have gone to court...it is very hard to do anything about state elections...when the	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#174
I spent weekends in PA in September and October	lapucelle	Jul 2017	#345
I pontificate wherever I am...at this moment, I just happen to be behind a keyboard	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#349
The media focuses on what it chooses to focus on.	lapucelle	Jul 2017	#377
I don't believe that Democrats completely ignored it	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#388
Thanks Ralph! Thanks Susan!	lapucelle	Jul 2017	#432
But Jill Stein and other Green riffraff can lose them for us right?	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#170
Wow, a politician who criticizes another politician from another party during an election	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#214
There is no such thing as a 'Green Party"...they are Green spoilers...why do you	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#217
Hillary talked more about voting suppression than Stein or any other candidate.	bettyellen	Jul 2017	#84
She talked about it a little....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#92
Baloney- she talked about the Russian interference, minorities being targeted by crosscheck and	bettyellen	Jul 2017	#143
I was here during the election. I wasn't on Mars.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#144
One of Hillary's first major policy speeches	lapucelle	Jul 2017	#538
Hillary had concrete policy proposals	lapucelle	Jul 2017	#383
No, you are hijacking the OP. The question is, what accomplishments can you list from attacking the	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#97
OK, the main accomplishment is that people are waking up and seeing that the Democratic Party.....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#102
The same people were saying that 25 years ago.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#103
no willingness to change among the party upper echelon, but change is occurring nonetheless	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#106
Nope, it's not. You can try to wish something into existence that isn't there but it won't work.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#107
the Democratic Party misreads the electorate on a more fundamental level	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#108
Or folks who see things like you do fundamentally misread it. On the one hand you have history...	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#111
In the elections where a Democrat actually became President, and then was re-elected.....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#114
It's truly glaring how you are trying to manipulate	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#121
I love Al Gore....I consider him to be heroic....He is funny, he is smart....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#128
It was all over the news that Nader equated Gore	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#130
What Nader said doesn't matter.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#133
Nader lied about Gore. He took votes from Gore.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#138
JUST winning elections, by itself, isn't much of anything.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#343
will you name the "bleak and depressing Democratic candidates	delisen	Jul 2017	#460
I guess he's thinking of the scene in The Blues Note bar in a Naked Gun movie.	betsuni	Jul 2017	#461
I did above. The nominees in 1980, 1984, 1988.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#462
We lost because the country moved right and we ran left.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#649
We didn't "run left" in the Eighties.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#653
It is interesting that many blamed lefties who supported Gary Hart for Mondale's loss...this left	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#660
They ran bland centrist campaigns in the fall.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#668
Your kidding yourself... Dukakis and Mondale were both liberal and branded as	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#674
They branded Bill Clinton as a commie liberal, too.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#702
But he was able to fight back by running to the center...also Perot helped as did Buchanan.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#722
Both Mondale and Dukakis were forced to move left...if your read about it...and lost badly.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#724
He fought back by having a rapid response team tha stopped the smears before they could work.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#729
Governor elections are statewide. The GOP is in control ...they have	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#187
not knowing how to talk about progressive issues in elections is political suicide	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#219
Oh please, that is totally not true...seriously I weary of this...No matter how you	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#239
have you ever read any books by George Lakoff?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#246
I read an article he wrote which said we need to give up 'identity' problems...I disagree.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#255
so, that's a no, then	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#264
I read an article but not a book...I wasn't impressed that much with his reasoning. so I didn't	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#271
The difference between Republicans and Democrats	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#277
If the country is "center left" that means it's open to progressive ideas.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#455
It also means that centrist ideas will work better	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#480
Wrong again... I hate the Greens ET AL as do most Democrats forced to live under Trump	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#178
I support Democrats taking responsibility for their current situation.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#216
Yeah...you have nothing nice to say about Democrats. I get that. You give the Greens	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#220
Greens are irrelevant. Republicans stole the elections in both 2000 and 2016.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#242
Thanks, VO. Sometimes loyal Dems are quick to blame others	philly_bob	Jul 2017	#332
+1 Million	Me.	Jul 2017	#312
+1	ciaobaby	Jul 2017	#325
That's what they do Steven	Chevy	Jul 2017	#154
Wow, another tangent--3rd parties are completely	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#127
I'm not promoting 3rd parties	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#132
You have complete understanding of every 3rd	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#134
I think that we need a 2nd party that stands up for itself	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#136
Not lying about Democrats is a great way to start.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#140
what is obvious to any thinking person is that we should have been doing a full court press....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#142
A bit of a tangent again. You said earlier that only	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#146
neither Gore nor Hillary became President	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#150
Hillary got a higher percentage of votes than Clinton got both times	JI7	Jul 2017	#153
The "swiftboating" of Democrats is not just done by	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#223
What is obvious is your constant promotion	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#516
is asking the Democratic Party to stand up and fight on this issue a third party strategy....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#518
If that is all you can see or acknowledge, then	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#521
I just don't care about third party candidates who get 1 or 2 percent of the votes	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#526
That just doesn't sound genuine in light of all	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#527
I only promote third parties in your world of pure imagination	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#528
Your words and methods promote 3rd parties.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#530
no, I promote a courageous Democratic Party	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#531
No, you are simply deflecting so that Democrats are blamed	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#532
you are calling me a liar	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#533
Lol, another tangent.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#534
just reality...take responsibility for your words	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#535
More deflection!	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#537
if you don't have the courage to stand by your words, why are we even talking?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#539
Ah, yes, make it personal to deflect.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#542
you made it personal	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#544
Just look at your dozens of posts in this thread.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#548
I blame you for misrepresenting what I wrote	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#549
Dozens of your own posts in this thread represent exactly	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#550
all of my posts represent exactly what I mean	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#552
Blaming Democrats for 3rd party lies is not	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#553
"blame Democrats for 3rd party lies" What does that statement even mean?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#555
Look at your posts. It means what it says.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#563
I knew you couldn't answer it. Just empty accusations.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#574
Another tangent. What's empty is calling Democrats	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#586
I said that I promoted a courageous Democratic party in response to your statement....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#588
Why don't you reference where you are getting	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#589
Show me the post number where I said that Democrats were "not courageous" or "out of touch"	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#593
Show where you are getting your many criticisms	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#595
so you got nothin'	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#596
Your criticisms sound familiar. You have dozens	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#603
your story....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#605
You have dozens of posts in this thread, all of which	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#609
You just aren't used to interacting with people who have a different point of view on this site	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#611
Forcing an alternate reality is a strategy.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#615
I learned about reframing from books by George Lakoff.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#625
Interesting, because this contradicts what you said the other day about	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#626
there is no conflict between defending unfair attacks on Bernie, and my hopes for the party	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#628
This still doesn't match what you wrote the other	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#631
goodbye	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#632
At least we got to the bottom of the attacks	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#635
Thank you for your service.	betsuni	Jul 2017	#637
Well, thanks!	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#638
Or taking money from Republicans to spoil elections.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#365
States are in charge of elections, and you know this.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#179
Very easy....you talk about it nonstop, and run ads condemning the practice.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#218
This is not an issue that would enable us to win elections.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#241
there are plenty of people who aren't on a side	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#248
And those voters won't be moved by Crosscheck...or anything really.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#254
and you magically know in advance that no voters will be affected by that	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#263
And I don't think anyone gives a damn about this issue in fact it will be viewed as whining.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#652
no one cares about people being thrown off of voter rolls?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#661
I don't it is an issue that you can run on...and I think the GOP has convinced their people that	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#663
It has do be done correctly, that's all.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#666
No, because they are not open to being convinced and this is not an issue that many other than thos	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#675
you don't know that.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#680
The DNC and HRCs campaign had calls for volunteers and court cases in every state where this was	bettyellen	Jul 2017	#386
Jill Stein said Trump was a better choice than Hillary Clinton...Jill Stein went to states where she	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#168
the mighty Jill Stein vs. the poor helpless Democrats	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#224
Your words not mine...it was a concerted effort Jill,Putin and Trump...with Comey	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#237
A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#192
Yes it was. And the Greens are nothing but shitty spoilers...don't understand some	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#225
Didin't hear her do any of that. But I did hear her talk about the evils of Hillary Clinton.	BlueCaliDem	Jul 2017	#334
she did a lot of that as well	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#338
Why was jill fucking stein Lying about Hillary when	Cha	Jul 2017	#346
Stein was a russian agent working to elect trump on behalf of Putin	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#360
Yes, Pawn for putin stein fit right in with	Cha	Jul 2017	#368
What I am hearing is "give me a reason to vote for that fill in the blank Democrat"	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#310
TRUTH!! eom	BlueCaliDem	Jul 2017	#335
Interesting. First, you say Democrats blame everyone but themselves. Then you say voter suppression	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#77
I blame them for not standing up against vote suppression as well.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#79
Do you have evidence to back up the claim that they don't stand up to voter suppression?	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#115
if they were standing up against it, it would be visible	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#116
Have you tried looking at all? It took me all of three minutes to find the following.	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#137
It is a start....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#141
I can easily find many times that number of examples. But you want to know what would really help?	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#145
1. Gore won the vote in Florida with a full recount. K. Harris threw 173,000 voters off the rolls	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#148
Interesting how you aren't even disputing that Nader could have single-handedly caused Gore to win.	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#149
sure, and Bill Clinton could have gone on the campaign trail for Gore, and swung the election too.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#151
There is no evidence that would have helped (and it could have easily hurt). Not so with Nader.	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#155
Translation, until we do what you want, 100%, you will punish us and for that	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#311
No, I have never voted for anyone but a Democrat	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#315
Utter and complete nonsense.	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#317
Democrats are the party that couldn't landslide the most clownish, ridiculous candidate ever	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#320
Gee, wonder why Hillary ran up against so much trouble?	Eliot Rosewater	Jul 2017	#323
they went after Obama too, but he handled it	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#326
Reality is that Trump is a con man, and he stole divisive talking points	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#327
Trump isn't a very good con man....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#333
Divisiveness was what was promoted -- you finally got that part.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#337
Truth is often divisive	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#339
Fake news is passed off as "truth". It's all the rage now.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#342
Marc Veasey was the lead plaintiff in the Texas voter id case	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#196
You are so very very wrong	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#195
Not on the big stage.....there the party was not.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#235
You are totally and utterly wrong	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#260
I trained 200+ poll watchers for Harris County	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#194
fighting on the front lines is important	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#227
Why will people who were so stupid to vote for Nader not take responsibility for their actions?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#261
no, you are having to fight voter suppression efforts because Katherine Harris suppressed the vote	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#266
Do you tire of being wrong?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#268
so, it is the job of third parties to prop up poorly performing major party candidates	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#273
Take responsbiity for the consequences of your vote	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#280
I voted for Gore	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#287
No, your attempts at analysis are sad and wrong	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#289
the suppression was more than enough to shift the election....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#295
BTW, I was in Florida for 2004 Kerry Edwards voter protection team	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#270
So, many thousands were thrown off the voter rolls in 2000 and it had no effect	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#274
Do you tire of being wrong?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#281
the Republicans are responsible, not Nader	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#288
Nader took Rove's money and Rove got his money worth	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#293
Only you have a right to a party	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#297
Greens can do what they want so long as they take responsibility for trump	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#300
Democrats are the ones who need to take responsibility for Trump	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#305
Wow, still promoting that 3rd party and still irrationally and	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#322
Yes, you got it. There is no answer for some folks other than blame Democrats.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#91
I noticed that too	treestar	Jul 2017	#169
Exactly. Very transparent.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#324
Not as many as voted for Clinton	BainsBane	Jul 2017	#135
Hillary got 1,382,210 Feingold got 1,380,335	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#139
Isn't that making an excuse?	treestar	Jul 2017	#165
that isn't the theory	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#212
Russ Feingold does not know how to talk to voters?	treestar	Jul 2017	#262
not well enough to overcome the vote suppression	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#267
I was also part of the Victory Counsel program	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#285
why should I take responsibility for it? what does it have to do with me?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#290
You are trying (and failing) to try to shift blame away from Nader and Stein	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#294
you think inside the box	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#299
I live and work in the real world	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#301
You have devoted that time and you deserve credit for it....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#308
Again, your claims are not based on facts and you should consider working in the real world	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#316
this is a battle that needs to be won politically, it can never be won on the ground	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#319
I strongly disagree with your analysis	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#355
your belief that.....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#363
I live in the real world and have actually worked on campaigns	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#366
I don't need a history lesson. I am familiar with all of that.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#373
Again, attempting to divert the topic with use of straw man arguments is a sign that you lost	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#374
have a nice day	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#375
I see that you came up with a different straw man or red herring to attempt to divert attention	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#599
Have you ever worked in a campaign or for a party in the real world?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#282
I have, and they do hold up.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#292
Do you really believe this?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#296
So now, i'm a liar....or Delusional!	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#298
No you are wrong in your analysis	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#304
If your method had ended vote suppression, I would accept your analysis	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#313
Do you tire of being wrong?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#321
Excellent post, even though you're met with yet another irrational tangent	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#329
I understand the GOP voter suppression efforts	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#347
Exactly, Gothmog. Your posts are so knowledgeable	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#519
I actually volunteer a great deal of my time on voter protection efforts	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#559
LOL, why would you ask me for a link to one of your posts saying that	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#627
George Lakoff, but it isn't a criticism....it's a note	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#629
I quoted what you wrote that matches similar	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#633
bye, felicia	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#634
At least we got to the bottom of this huge	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#636
They sounded familiar because your imagination produces this sort of nonsense often.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#640
You wouldn't have any idea about my imagination, but this is just more	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#679
In your world, if I express my opinion....I am trying to force an alternate reality onto others	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#681
Parroting a politician isn't expressing an opinion. It is agreeing with that politician.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#682
you aren't making any sense	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#683
You finally admitted who you were protecting, so I made perfect sense.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#684
your gibberish amuses you, I'll grant you that.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#685
You obviously understand very well.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#686
I understand the concept of incoherent and contradictory expression....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#687
You should quit "reframing" people's posts, then.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#688
you should consider refining your material at an open-mike night	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#689
Your posts speak for themselves. You've clearly tried to reframe this entire	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#690
that is your mistake....telling the same joke over and over	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#691
This thread is about attacking the party from the left and those 3rd party	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#692
you should reframe your jokes in a funnier way	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#694
Your posts speak for themselves.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#696
I must exclaim, I'm not to blame	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#698
Oh, you're very much involved in reframing	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#704
Your posts don't speak for themselves....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#706
No worries, you're doing all the reframing	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#707
I have to. You are a one trick pony.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#708
Your reframing speaks for itself.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#709
You aren't comfortable unless you label people	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#710
LMAO, moar reframing.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#711
it is reality....you aren't willing to actually discuss things	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#712
Project much?	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#713
I tried to actually respond to your posts	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#714
What we could have had:	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#716
So in your indirect way....are you saying that Gore was your first vote?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#717
I guess it wasn't that indirect.....it was simply a more elegant way of expressing it	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#718
Al Gore wasn't my first vote, but I've been thinking about him a lot since	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#734
on election night when Fox News set in motion the initial cascade of calls that Bush had won....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#735
I think the reframing to fit one politician's viewpoints are not the way to go, though.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#743
I defend Bernie from attack...	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#744
No, dont' follow George Lakoff, but a quick Google shows	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#745
Lakoff uses the word "moral" in terms of the differing viewpoints concerning right and wrong....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#747
Seems very abstract and impractical. Not sure if attacking Democrats from	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#757
it doesn't have anything to do with attacking Democrats, from the left or otherwise	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#758
Reframe the blame...	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#697
Nader Elected Bush: Why We Shouldn't Forget	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#754
Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#752
You don't understand how politics works	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#755
It is you who does not understand politics or math	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#759
Why don't you believe that Democrats have to earn people's votes?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#761
So you are giving up on your silly clam that the SCOTUS was the reason for bush's win	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#766
it is Surreal to see you calling the SCOTUS theft of the election as a silly claim.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#768
Your attempt to use a straw man to divert attention was the silly thing	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#769
you blame Nader for the Iraq War but not Democrats who voted for Authorization....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#772
Oh goodie, another red herring or straw man arguement	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#775
you clearly don't understand what a red herring is	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#776
I was a college debater and I am lawyer	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#777
you have picked out one person and one event and declared them solely responsible for an outcome....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#778
The concept of proximate causation and causation is covered in first year torts	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#779
The fact that you didn't pay attention in law school is none of my concern	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#780
Silly but sad layperson	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#781
when I encounter a math professor who cannot add or subtract....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#782
I love it when laypersons try to use red herring and other silly excuses	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#783
you Scapegoat Nader for SCOTUS decisions that took place 10-13 years later	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#784
You do know that Bush appointed Roberts and Alito?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#785
you do know that Roberts and Alito were appointed in Bush's second term?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#786
bush won in 2004 because he was POTUS during a war he started	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#787
Your magic Nader theory always finds a new way to Blame Nader	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#788
The concept of causation is covered in first year torts	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#789
the fact that you keep bringing up torts is pretty hilarious	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#790
Not to a lawyer or someone who debated in college	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#791
The only sad thing would be if you represent the view of the Democratic Party upper echelon.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#792
I was a delgate to the National Convention	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#793
So you are telling me that we are screwed, then.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#794
Only if you believe that Nader and the greenies are not idiots	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#795
I don't give a shit about what Greenies accept. I am a Democrat.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#796
If you really are a Democrat, then why are you defending Nader and the greenies?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#798
That has been your mistake, imagining that I am defending Nader and the Green Party	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#799
Those greenies have the sense to be sorry may be reachable	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#803
BTW. I really love this post on another thread	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#770
anyone who thinks Trump is to the left is not a liberal at all	JI7	Jul 2017	#14
The poster said Trump lied to sound 'left'	leftstreet	Jul 2017	#38
and as i said, anyone who thought he was left, soudned left etc was not left	JI7	Jul 2017	#40
That I don't know	leftstreet	Jul 2017	#42
i can easily understand it . same reason george zimmerman got away with killing trayvon martin	JI7	Jul 2017	#44
He did not sound left at all.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#175
Agreed. Democrats need to face some hard things	lovemydogs	Jul 2017	#19
Yeah tough decisions...first step throw Nina Turner out if she still calls herself a Democrat tell	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#568
The country has not moved to the left at all. If anything, it has moved to the right.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#96
You cannot defeat all of that data because you don't know how to talk to the voters in the center.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#231
The party had the most liberal platform in its history.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#171
You are ignoring the fact that it was Nader who gave us the gutting of the voting rights act	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#200
Your obsession with Nader as the sole cause is well documented	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#512
The facts bear me out	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#558
since the recount showed that when all ballots were counted in Florida, Gore won....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#562
Why do you not want to deal with facts? The facts show that Nader gave the election to W	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#564
You ignore the most basic fact...Gore got the most votes	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#579
The only reason that there was a recount was due to nader's stupidity	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#592
Reality is not hard. Gore got the most votes.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#594
The use of straw man and red herring arguments are cute but are not effective	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#597
math is math. Gore won the most votes	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#600
Red Herrings and Straw man are cute but not effective	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#601
Your focus on Nader is the red herring	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#604
Look at the OP and the topic of this thread	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#606
When Gore got the most votes, did Nader force Republicans to steal the election?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#608
Did Gore become POTUS?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#610
No, because Republicans blocked the recount	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#623
Still pushing the red herring/strawman argument	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#656
In your world, Gore got the most votes, Republicans stole the election, and you blame Nader	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#664
Keep on pointing fingers at other straw man or red herrings	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#673
No one rational is buying your argument that the Republicans didn't steal the election	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#678
Do you tire of being wrong?	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#748
do you tire of using the word tire?	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#749
Ralph Nader Was Indispensable To The Republican Party	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#750
do you ever tire of blaming voters and other candidates	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#753
Why are you afraid to admit that Nader gave us the Iraq War, Citizens United and Shelby County case	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#760
Nader didn't cost Gore anything. Gore did not convince enough voters to satisfy you.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#762
The peer review studies show that Nader cost Gore 27,000 net votes	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#763
Gore did not convince the people who voted for Nader to vote for him. That was his job, not Nader's.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#764
In the real world, the peer reviewed studies show that Nader cost Gore 27,000 net votes control	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#765
I don't need a "peer reviewed study" to realize that it is the job of the candidate to win votes	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#767
Karl Rove funded Nader and nader wanted Bush to win	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#771
You are great at cutting and pasting, but you can't refute my argument	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#773
A red herring argument is not a real argument	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#774
NADER WANTED GEORGE W. BUSH PRESIDENT.	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#751
This line of reasoning is really funny	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#598
Not too sure which myths you base your inaccurate premise on...	LanternWaste	Jul 2017	#284
the platform is a lovely document.....much kicking and screaming in its creation	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#513
Look at who holds the governorship's...the country is not left.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#487
My contention is that Democrats have not learned how to talk to voters in the center....	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#514
Sure that explains it all . It doesn't really explain the shift in the states to Republican	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#543
I would suggest that all of them read Al Franken's latest book.	octoberlib	Jul 2017	#6
the key though, is to start the negotiations from the left	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#23
NO, we live in a center left country at best ...if we did this, we could face losses as bad	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#183
there is a left, and there is a right but there is a huge center, and that center can be persuaded	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#222
There is no evidence that is true...not a bit.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#238
there are polls which say otherwise	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#245
There is no center. such as shown..those who are not affiliated with one party or the other	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#256
you have it all figured out	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#265
I think we can improve our situation. We have a court case that has a shot at stopping the	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#269
The Partisan Gerrymandering case is a very interesting case that I am following	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#286
As you know Justice Kennedy has long been opposed to gerrymandering or so he says.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#488
Chad Dunn is the outside counsel for the Texas Democratic Party and is a counsel in the Texas case	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#560
This makes me smile	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#561
I love Mark Green!	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#651
So am I	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#657
Very interesting.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#658
Al Franken is one of our BEST	hueymahl	Jul 2017	#232
The Clintons pushed the party to the right in the '90s. It's time to rebalance.	Zen Democrat	Jul 2017	#7
28 years ago, some Democrats wanted to actually win.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#11
It was a very different time 28 years ago.	lovemydogs	Jul 2017	#17
That wasn't the point, though, but yes	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#50
It was a mistake for the party to go republican light back then	elmac	Jul 2017	#81
Why, because losing three Presidential elections in a row by landslide proportions wasn't enough?	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#82
So we should run candidates like Dukakis, Mondale, and McGovern?	BzaDem	Jul 2017	#152
Dukakis and Mondale didn't run in the fall as liberals.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#453
I am sorry that is not accurate. Even with Ross Perot running who took votes from the Pugs,	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#233
Smart observations and btw	JHan	Jul 2017	#340
Exactly. Clinton played the only cards he could...the fact he tried for single payer healthcare	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#492
Right. The most progressive platform in history was "republican light."	ehrnst	Jul 2017	#275
Not even close	shenmue	Jul 2017	#257
Can you be more specific on how they 'pushed the party to the right?'	ehrnst	Jul 2017	#276
The country was to the right in the 90's. We barely won with both	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#489
No they didn't...12 years of massive losses pushed the party to the center...and Bill	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#669
Obama	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#8
LOL. The far left attacked Obama as being CENTRIST. He didn't appeal to them.	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#22
Eventually, the far left criticized Obama for shifting to the center.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#45
he didn't shift to the center. obama was the same as he has always been.	JI7	Jul 2017	#47
Maybe. Maybe not.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#51
Obama wasn't President in 2008	JI7	Jul 2017	#52
No he wasn't. Did someone say he was?	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#57
these are the same trolls that always attack democrats. and htis is just proof	JI7	Jul 2017	#58
This proves that even during his FIRST campaign he was being accused of being too centrist.	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#68
Yes, after he secured the nomination.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#71
They saw that he was black and so they had assumptions about him. But they changed their mind	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#75
Hope and Change, pnwmom. Hope and Change.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#76
Yes. The hope and the change was that he promised to bring people TOGETHER.	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#83
not true, the so called leftists were supporting John Edwards and attacking OBama and Clinton	JI7	Jul 2017	#80
And Kucinich, don't forget him.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#87
No, let's forget him.	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#302
John Edwards was a good leftie candidate* until January	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#90
John Edwards was never a good lefty for those who actually care about where candidates stand on	JI7	Jul 2017	#93
Well I meant to write a good leftie candidate, but I'm going to bed.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#95
i don't see the difference, he still co sponsered the IWR	JI7	Jul 2017	#98
He was never that very lefty - but somehow it didn't hurt him w Uber lefties lol	bettyellen	Jul 2017	#147
You're right but he was saying a lot of the right things.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#161
He DID a lot of things that were total non starters though. It's interesting to watch peope	bettyellen	Jul 2017	#258
No, many supported Kucinich. They were always worried that Obama was too conciliatory,	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#303
A whole lot of us supported Dean or Clark in 2004	Tom Rinaldo	Jul 2017	#193
agreed	NewJeffCT	Jul 2017	#177
He never shifted. He campaigned on bringing both sides together, not on being to the left. n/t	pnwmom	Jul 2017	#67
I think you're mostly right, except that he retreated from some of the issues that lefties liked.	aikoaiko	Jul 2017	#70
The far left abandoned Pres. Obama and helped the GOP win in 10 because we didn't get single payer.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#670
people want to forget what went on through Obama's presidency and the attacks he got	JI7	Jul 2017	#48
Speaking for myself, I must take exception to this.	PatrickforO	Jul 2017	#54
Great post!	nevergiveup	Jul 2017	#61
+1	0rganism	Jul 2017	#74
Excellent post.	CentralMass	Jul 2017	#173
Thread winner - thank you!	klook	Jul 2017	#370
Beautifully stated.	aquamarina	Jul 2017	#584
Great post.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#671
Obama ran as center left. He did not run as a liberal.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#490
What was accomplished? The country got pushed to the right, two wars, thousands	lunamagica	Jul 2017	#9
yeap	YCHDT	Jul 2017	#10
I wonder when they will finally see that. There is a lot of flailing under this OP by some folks	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#109
We are seventeen years past 2000.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#457
18 years since Nader announced his candidacy and started attacking Democrats	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#465
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Jul 2017	#473
Another non answer to the OP question. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#475
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Jul 2017	#476
There is nothing wrong with healthy debate between left and center	lovemydogs	Jul 2017	#13
so we need to move on from Feingold because he won in 1992 but lost twice after ?	JI7	Jul 2017	#16
I think the country is further right than it was inn 92...not less.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#491
Of course not if you are Republican that is...you should encourage it as a means to win every	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#571
Not a motherfucking thing	ismnotwasm	Jul 2017	#18
And why can't Democrats walk and chew gum at the same time?	lovemydogs	Jul 2017	#24
it's the majority of white people who have a problem with these issues and vote republican because	JI7	Jul 2017	#26
A certain person	wysi	Jul 2017	#27
some people falsely claimed that "a certain person" chose between the two.	virtualobserver	Jul 2017	#34
Bingo. n/t	QC	Jul 2017	#39
The certain person built a campaign message that Democrats were ignoring them.	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#252
Yep. A certain person tried to say all racial inequality was economic class warfare.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#105
Sounds like you're being divisive.	elleng	Jul 2017	#31
Nope, that's the folks attacking Democrats from the left. But I already said that in my OP. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#89
Steve for the sake of clarity...	Tom Rinaldo	Jul 2017	#209
THANK YOU TOM,	elleng	Jul 2017	#395
Thank you for more one-sidedness?	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#469
Tom, for the sake of Clarity, are folks attacking the Democratic Party the only ones allowed	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#468
I answered your OP questions below	Tom Rinaldo	Jul 2017	#479
The false equivalencies only gave more power to the republicans until Howard Dean came around and	still_one	Jul 2017	#33
Dean was right but the fact is the reason we had control then was because many of those democrats	JI7	Jul 2017	#37
Absolutely J17	still_one	Jul 2017	#43
The same people who claim Dems have been pushed to the left by them also claim	betsuni	Jul 2017	#36
Not Much	colsohlibgal	Jul 2017	#41
The only way to push the Democratic party to the left is through organization and winning elections.	Yavin4	Jul 2017	#53
I think one other thing. Direct outreach to those who disagree.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#110
No. The only way is to win elections.	Yavin4	Jul 2017	#190
Jack Squat	Doug the Dem	Jul 2017	#64
One's definition of ''left'' might mean a whole different thing to another. Define ''left".	YOHABLO	Jul 2017	#78
In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by the Dem party attacking the left?	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#86
It's not a relevant question, it's an attempt to hijack my OP. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#88
Your op is an attempt to hijack discussion	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#101
Not even a nice try. Fail. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#104
Fail is where this thread was bound.	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#443
It is not your thread is it?	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#493
Its a general discussion thread	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#591
Great question	melman	Jul 2017	#117
It's not what they do	treestar	Jul 2017	#167
The left is not being attacked.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#186
Interesting take on it	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#442
Excuse me, but who is attacking whom?	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#482
Who has more to gain or lose by attacking whom?	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#590
What!??	Eko	Jul 2017	#756
And for those that DID NOT get health care?	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#800
You would have to ask first	Eko	Jul 2017	#802
Noone has clean hands	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#804
Well, lets look at the big picture.	Eko	Jul 2017	#805
Yes, lets	quakerboy	Jul 2017	#807
No one has had a good response to the OP that justifies the attacks on the party from the left yet.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#94
Also too, I'd like to know where this Neoliberal Establishment Democratic Party is.	betsuni	Jul 2017	#99
Edited: Sorry, misread your post	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#100
I could turn that 180 and ask you the same set of questions	rpannier	Jul 2017	#112
You wouldn't if you didn't want to try to distract from the question in my OP. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#113
And if you were seriously looking	melman	Jul 2017	#119
If the question is threatening to your views then that's the answer	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#123
Long does not equal thoughtful.	Squinch	Jul 2017	#371
On the nose	KTM	Jul 2017	#378
You are making a claim that has an inherent weakness	rpannier	Jul 2017	#120
As I said to the other poster, if your viewpoint is threatened by the question	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#124
And a question w/o substance	rpannier	Jul 2017	#125
You only characterize it thusly because it threatens your entrenched views. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#126
Wow!	rpannier	Jul 2017	#131
That you can't or won't answer...what good has come from attacking Democrats?	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#494
Great post	melman	Jul 2017	#118
No, it's called threadjacking which is a kind of trolling	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#122
Because you cannot defend your argument	rpannier	Jul 2017	#129
I do not enable trollish behavior no matter how you try to frame it. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#198
You're smarter on TV	rpannier	Jul 2017	#431
Says the person who couldn't answer a simple question in the OP	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#467
Accomplished? Dubya and Trump. nt	Kahuna7	Jul 2017	#156
This! NT	Bleacher Creature	Jul 2017	#228
the extreme left is no different than the extrerme right....their ideology has always been the	beachbum bob	Jul 2017	#158
Fox News, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, etc., etc., etc.	Vinca	Jul 2017	#159
The idiot leftist extremists got precisely what they wanted.	Foamfollower	Jul 2017	#160
The so called left has enabled the GOP and enacted GOP policies...mostly Greens and other	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#162
Another response that attempts to evade the question. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#197
I did answer the question. Elections are run by states...and GOP states are using crosscheck so	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#211
Great post	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#376
Thank you.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#391
It does not work at all	treestar	Jul 2017	#163
Well the Dems have LOST 900+ state seats	alarimer	Jul 2017	#166
We lost with a gerrymander and because of the alt left often...third party riffraff.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#184
That is only a partial explanation	alarimer	Jul 2017	#250
The left generally criticized Dean for that...and were adamant about not having him	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#253
The left loved Dean	fishwax	Jul 2017	#525
Not this year...Dean is establishment now.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#536
it would have been better if he'd stayed on in '09	fishwax	Jul 2017	#554
You did not attempt to answer the question in the OP. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#202
Okay, more Dems voted for GEORGE W. BUSH in Florida than Ralph Nader that year.	alarimer	Jul 2017	#247
And that means nothing because there is no test for party registration.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#570
Why did you leave out gerrymandering and voter suppression? You think everyone doesn't know by now!?	YCHDT	Jul 2017	#213
K&R	mcar	Jul 2017	#176
There are millions of people to the left of the Democratic center	Tom Rinaldo	Jul 2017	#180
I run left but understand the need to elect Democrats...but green riffraff and other third party	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#495
"There are no organizations that attack the left period..."	Tom Rinaldo	Jul 2017	#511
I see it completely different ...I see the Democratic Party under attack from the right and the left	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#567
Oh actually we pushed the centrist establishment	Voltaire2	Jul 2017	#181
You already went away sadly...have you looked at the 2016 election carefully?	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#185
Right, keep telling yourself that. Keep repeating the same failed formula.	Voltaire2	Jul 2017	#411
No, LGBTQ organizations deserve credit for LGBTQ equality, not Nader and Stein.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#199
nice try. I said nothing about Nader and Stein. You attacked "the left" in general.	Voltaire2	Jul 2017	#410
Nope, that is your straw man. My OP was about those who attack Democrats from the left	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#418
Oh brother!	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#205
And sisters.	Voltaire2	Jul 2017	#412
I don't care about the third party left or the green riffraff... the Democratic left	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#497
God Bless You!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU	LaydeeBug	Jul 2017	#182
Nader gave us the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#188
If we would have moved to left	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#189
That is not the question. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#203
The question was what has been accomplished	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#229
BTW, I don't call trying to bring the party	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#234
FDR put people in camps. That is a fact...and his vision is almost 100 years old	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#499
There was this little thing called Social Security	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#566
The "The New Deal" was only for White folks. And Johnson enacted medicaid and medicare... not	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#720
You have your opinion, I have mine.	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#731
What I posted was not opinion. These were things that happened under Roosevelt...including	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#732
Which one of these rights do you disagree with	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#733
all of the ones that didn't apply to POC or women...rights are meaningless without equality.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#738
You really have a thing against FDR	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#739
Actually, I adore Roosevelt. He was a great man. He saved this country and was	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#740
I never said FDR was perfect	brutus smith	Jul 2017	#742
We never had all those rights...even if we were white in during those years and POC had no such	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#746
Truth	hueymahl	Jul 2017	#236
How is that possible, your first statement?	George II	Jul 2017	#283
Pushing from the left helps slow the party's move to the right.	Orsino	Jul 2017	#201
LOL!	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#204
The burden is on you to prove that.Its much easier to show evidence the other way.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#206
Nope. Evidence would consist of measuring effects.	Orsino	Jul 2017	#208
So moderates have lost 3 out of 5 elections?	Nevernose	Jul 2017	#243
You consider the election of Trump moving the party to the left or slowing the move to the	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#502
No. n/t	Orsino	Jul 2017	#529
the fostering of divisiveness within the Democratic bloc has done a disservice to us all	fishwax	Jul 2017	#210
After Nader and Stein, those of us who actually want to stop Republicans from being elected	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#215
Yeah, certainly there is a small but not insignificant block of folks who don't get that	fishwax	Jul 2017	#291
What do you want, steven?	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#452
Good questions. I've been asking a similar question for month, still with no answer:	George II	Jul 2017	#221
The Left is stronger today than in decades. Liberalism is fading away.	DemocraticWing	Jul 2017	#226
Nope, the opinion of Socialism hasn't changed in 25 years	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#417
You can keep ignoring us if you want, but we'll keep organizing and building	DemocraticWing	Jul 2017	#428
Opinion articles won't help you. Statistics show zero movement in the voters' opinion of Socialism.	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#429
You're using a poll that compares 2016 to 2010, but modern opinions have shifted post-2000.	DemocraticWing	Jul 2017	#430
Right that is why had Bush and now Trump because we are so far left...socialist and all.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#508
Building what? More Republican majorities?	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#503
In the spring of 2016, the polls showed 55% saying they'd vote for a candidate who said he was.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#454
Show me an election where a socialist won...it didn't happen in 16.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#517
It's called ratfucking.	VermontKevin	Jul 2017	#249
Did Obama "attack the party (read : Hillary) from the left" in 2008?	bullwinkle428	Jul 2017	#259
He opposed the Iraq war like a raving left wing lunatic dove.	killbotfactory	Jul 2017	#351
It's Very Simple	Tribalceltic	Jul 2017	#272
Yes, of course it has. Because these more left leaning groups offer an alternative to voters. They	JCanete	Jul 2017	#278
There is no 'alternative' to Democrats...unless you want to elect Republicans.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#504
the alternative is a vote that tells the Democratic party where you stand. There is no democracy	JCanete	Jul 2017	#541
The "attacks" from the left on the Dem establishment do NOT REACH the large majority of the	vkkv	Jul 2017	#279
That is bs...and the left helped the GOP pull the country right by enabling GOP majorities.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#505
I'm Late To This Thread	Me.	Jul 2017	#307
We get...	Mike Nelson	Jul 2017	#314
Post removed	Post removed	Jul 2017	#328
A con man stole these divisive talking points and now look how empty they are	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#330
At the time it happened, progressives were totally silenced and powerless WITHIN this party.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#341
"Totally silenced and powerless", huh? LOL!	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#369
In the Nineties, progressives were totally silenced and shut down.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#389
LOL!	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#400
What, in any of the things I support, is "hard left"?	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#408
medicare for all is the new hard left.	Voltaire2	Jul 2017	#413
Does that make LBJ the new Trotsky?	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#415
In the 90's the country was right leaning... and we had not	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#506
It could equally be asked	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#354
LOL! (That again?)	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#362
President Obama won twice in large electoral vote victories	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#382
It's always a sign that you are losing the argument when you resort to personal abuse.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#397
Go try you amusing theories on that thread	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#402
It's personal abuse to claim I don't live in the real world and don't know practical politics.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#420
Dems new pitch to voters: A Better Deal	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#424
Ken-your posts speak for themselves	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#426
I live in the real world-it's just that I disagree with you on what's possible in this world.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#436
Ken-I strongly disagree with your silly platform because it will not work win the real world	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#440
You have the right to disagree with me on the level of ideas.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#441
I am basing my opinion on real experience in the real world	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#445
I'm not scared to post in the other thread. Most of the posters there agree with me.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#448
The posters on that thread did not agree with you and the fact that you believe that amuses me	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#451
The African-American voters voted against Perriello because he was anti-choice in the far past.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#456
Denial is not just a river in Africa	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#507
They did not vote for perriello in my opinion because Northam was better established and endorsed	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#515
The base aren't centrist	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#581
I have posted in that thread, and found a lot of agreement with my views.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#458
"Your proposals do reflect the rank and file of the Democratic Party"	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#459
"Please stop refighting the past" ... Seriously? OMG! LOL!!!	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#405
You can't seriously argue that progressives had a real say in the Nineties.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#416
LOL! See? (The 90's are still in the past!)	NurseJackie	Jul 2017	#422
So many OMG LOLs. It is almost too much for me.	betsuni	Jul 2017	#423
I am also laughing at these claims	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#447
Laughing is not disproving.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#450
More like liberal candidates lost in the 70's and 80's so maybe a centrist might have a chance and	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#573
Do you mean those who criticized from the left from WITHIN the Party or from outside the Party?	George II	Jul 2017	#384
Both.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#394
Statistics can be used to present any viewpoint. But your comments are a bit off...	George II	Jul 2017	#409
OK, but in tying that to centrism, you have correlation, not causation.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#414
The claims that it's the democrats fault that congressional and state legislative races were lost	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#474
This post will definitely change their minds that's for sure.	vi5	Jul 2017	#367
"attacking them from the right"	JHan	Jul 2017	#372
Well, I keep hearing about how they are "attacking Democrats from the left"	vi5	Jul 2017	#390
That's a very literal interpretation though	JHan	Jul 2017	#403
See I'm not radically liberal....	vi5	Jul 2017	#407
For me personally...	JHan	Jul 2017	#433
There is nothing wrong with incremental changes	Gothmog	Jul 2017	#449
This is the kind of nonsense you get when you ask a simple question	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#470
Nothing is going to change their minds	treestar	Jul 2017	#381
Maybe not....	vi5	Jul 2017	#396
Blame, blame , blame	treestar	Jul 2017	#478
Who says irony is dead...	vi5	Jul 2017	#498
That so many of you find this question so vexing says a lot	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#471
You do realize the same thing could be said about...	vi5	Jul 2017	#500
Is what the democratic party is still doing working, is also a valid question that has to be asked,	JCanete	Jul 2017	#546
"Attacking them from the right"	betsuni	Jul 2017	#477
I think there was a father and daughter team that personified Nader, Stein and the like	DFW	Jul 2017	#393
Veruca Salt is a pretty good analogy for those who attack Democrats from the left nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#421
Still no positive accomplishments listed by anyone. Case closed. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#419
The winner...	tonedevil	Jul 2017	#434
We had no right to expect those people to just support our ticket no matter how far right it went.	Ken Burch	Jul 2017	#444
More attempts to distract from the question in the OP that is a very simple one. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#472
You mean no positive accomplishments that you will accept, but unless you're going to effectively	JCanete	Jul 2017	#547
So, where is the list of positive things Dems have accomplished since Trump took office?	vkkv	Jul 2017	#565
Of course Russia, voter suppression and Comey is left out of this critique because ...	YCHDT	Jul 2017	#662
I AM A DEM !!	vkkv	Jul 2017	#672
Sorry, can't add much. I have come to hate the alt-left and everything they are with the heat of	Blue_true	Jul 2017	#427
DU exists	IronLionZion	Jul 2017	#437
Very little. But not everything from the left is an attack.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#438
They are not allies and win only by demonizing Democrats and our party.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#520
If they aren't our allies then don't complain that their votes go elsewhere.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#578
No compromise... EVAH!!!!	BootinUp	Jul 2017	#463
I voted for Hillary but	sellitman	Jul 2017	#464
So you couldn't answer the question in the OP but felt compelled to respond	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#466
In fairness to sellitman, the question was loaded and stupid.	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#501
You are 100% wrong. It's a question that should always be asked. I'm surprised I even need to say	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#569
the question comes down to what you include in "it"	Gore1FL	Jul 2017	#580
I don't equate Nader & Bernie	sellitman	Jul 2017	#643
My suggestion is to move the country left before the party moves left so we can actually win	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#523
Nice snark	sellitman	Jul 2017	#642
Thank you. Running candidates who can't win is a waste of time. Primarying Joe Manchin for example	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#644
Stop blaming the left for centrist democrats blowing elections.	killbotfactory	Jul 2017	#510
Th alt- left has blown every election that we lost since 2000.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#522
When Hillary was thought to be a sure thing, they were dismissed	killbotfactory	Jul 2017	#524
They took their ball and went home...here is hoping they suffer 1000 times more	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#540
"Th alt- left"	Act_of_Reparation	Jul 2017	#585
Stop ignoring the fact that the changes that the Clintons brought to the party are why we are	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#616
That is so true. I am so so sick of the bashing of Clinton. He tried to get single payer health care	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#650
Absolutely true. Clinton beat the Republicans at their own game. And they	R B Garr	Jul 2017	#655
for the past couple of days this thread keeps showing up at the top of the Latest page	Kali	Jul 2017	#545
Yeah, he'll ignore anything that actually happened	zipplewrath	Jul 2017	#557
It has done more harm than good. They need their own Party that doesn't [	Lil Missy	Jul 2017	#551
Nader did not invent it. See 1968. See 1980.	McCamy Taylor	Jul 2017	#602
Try thinking outside the box	iamateacher	Jul 2017	#614
"Interject" away.	Sparkly	Jul 2017	#624
663 replies...the biggest post I ever remember...	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#665
Surveys show a steady increase in support for very liberal ideas.	guillaumeb	Jul 2017	#676
It's making us tough.	ZX86	Jul 2017	#695
8+years of damage to the environment and extinction & mass killing of wildlife. I will never forgive	kerry-is-my-prez	Jul 2017	#700
This is a very long thread. Who should I insult?	AngryAmish	Jul 2017	#703
Greens of course...they have it coming.	Demsrule86	Jul 2017	#721
If you're in the center at this point and time, then you're just Rep. Lite.	YOHABLO	Jul 2017	#726
The thread that will not die. Almost 800 posts.	Hekate	Jul 2017	#797
Illustrative that those who attack the Democratic Party from the left are	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#808
It proved that the Republican Party is the ENEMY of HUMANITY	Fluke a Snooker	Jul 2017	#801
We didn't need Nader or Stein for that. There was ample proof for the non-feebleminded before. nt	stevenleser	Jul 2017	#806
Fluke a Snooker, u are way over the top in your unthinking hatred of half the people in this country	Hekate	Jul 2017	#809

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 11:04 PM

JI7 (87,759 posts)

1. they got what they wanted with Bush and Trump

that was their goal

people need to stop thinking these people actually want liberal policy.

In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by attacking the Dem party from the left?

1. they got what they wanted with Bush and Trump

157. +1 nt

336. +2 eom

379. Rubbish.

399. Consider Nader's impact on New Hampshire voting in 2000.

401. OK. Knock down No. 1 if you like.

425. I'm in complete agreement with you on those.

612. !!! Of course, the Dems never want to "look " bad, and it

446. 50% or it was Nader not seeing "the big picture". 50% was THIS PARTY not seeing the big picture.

404. I agree. I am so tired of this bullshit argument.

583. Thank you.

607. Plus, 4. SCOTUS, contrary to the Florida SupCrt's legit decision,

701. They just simply don't give a damn - vanity is of the utmost importance to them.

2. From the "left" with LIES.

3. What has been accomplished by attacking people who vote Green?

15. Hopefully, what is accomplished is informing would-be Green voters of how useless the Green

358. +10000

435. More likely it will create another few decades of animosity from people whose support we could use.

481. For some reason, I don't hear Green apologists use that same argument when it comes to

496. They aren't trying to build a coalition of voters to support Democrats.

509. I'm talking about people like you, who are defending the Green party.

577. I'm not defending the green party. I am defending the Democratic party.

587. Well then stop whimpering and whining about the poor Green Party's hurt feelings.

622. Well, I'll give you points for trying.

630. LOL. OK, let me rephrase it for you.

641. I am not talking about Jill Stein or Susan Collins

693. This OP is about Stien, Nader, the Green Party, and the rest of the far left.

699. Let's find a way to bridge that gap then between Dem candidates and would-be third-party voters.

705. Let's find a way to bridge the gap between Dems and moderate Republicans.

715. We've been trying that since 1988

719. Not remotely true. The Dems did try it in the 90s (successfully).

723. If you consider losing the House and Senate "success" I guess we were....

725. I consider winning the house and senate a success. Also winning the presidency.

727. 2006 wasn't in the 90s. Howard Dean's 50 state strategy deserves the credit

728. Yes, 2006 wasn't in the 90s. Excellent point.

730. Don't expect them to listen to you then. And don't expect to make a positive difference.

645. Exactly...they are the enemies of Democrats as much as Republicans. In fact Greens prefer

654. The Stein people worked with Russia and did their best to help trump

659. They did...I fail to see how some defend them. I can't stand them and get a bit irrational on the

677. If so them voting for stein wouldn't have mattered then.

619. Some are not the smartest, for sure. Their arguments

25. I'm trying to figure out what it is that you're really saying

85. Some folks, Michael Moore among them, learn the lesson. He voted Nader. He wont make that mistake

344. We can't end the Greens by trying to browbeat Green voters into backing the Dem presidential ticket

359. It might...we need to up our efforts.

439. We can't win anyone over through spewing bile and assigning blame.

483. I agree and the Greens and our revolution should shut the fuck up.

613. Yeah, Michael Moore, Sarah Silverman &Bill Maher

646. Yes we have to stop pretending that Greens are potential allies...they are not and educate those

737. It's worth a try to educate them as Michael Moore &Bill

741. I agree...I think stimatizing them would help reduce their effectiveness ..no one wants to belong to

164. Exactly. People don't like being insulted

318. You mean "WAH! He did it too?"

361. Yes Greens are akin to four year olds...it is true....the third party riffraff has no patience with

380. So the left gets to complain about being insulted,

172. It isn't a good way to get independents or non-Democrats to vote for Dems, that's for sure.

306. HRC had fantastic ideas and policy points. Hopefully you and everybody else here is familiar?

350. HRC DID have good ideas...and the fall platform(with many Sanders things added)was excellent

353. can t respond without being banned

356. check your pms...we'll talk about it there.

621. I know that

387. Ken: HRC brought tons of policy to the debates and to the campaign trail. Media minimized policy,

392. The campaign didn't bring them to the ads...the ads were predominately about attacking Trump.

398. Maybe. OTOH which Trump ads, speeches, debate appearances presented policy

406. I don't defend the Trump ads on policy, and I don't defend the Trump campaign on anything.

572. I agree.

575. The media played a role...but the media will ALWAYS play a role.

576. Agree again.

582. Thank you. This is the kind of exchange I'm looking for.

364. Why, Donnie appreciated the efforts of Green Party voters.

484. Neither does nominating liberals in red states like the three candidate Sen. Sanders endorsed. They

620. Yeah, but most people who call themselves independents

191. The greens gave us the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act

331. THANK YOU. Green voters are unwittingly (or maybe wittingly) allies of GOP power-grab in the U.S.

348. A vote for Stein was a vote for trump

352. Steiners will *never* own up to that.

617. Plus, I bet anything she was helped by Putin. Just like

639. No doubt about it. And the fact that she frothed at the mouth whenever she spoke of HRC

736. Her votes made a difference. It is all so obvious.

352. Steiners will never own up to that.