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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSHOULD DEMOCRATS MOVE TO THE CENTER? MARK PENN OP-ED INSPIRES FURIOUS DEBATE
Mark Penn knows about losing electionsand about winning them. Now, the longtime pollster for Bill and Hillary Clinton is offering his advice to Democrats despondent after the 2016 election of Donald J. Trump to the presidency and, more recently, defeat for their partys candidates in several special elections that many hoped would serve as the advance guard of a Democratic takeover of Capitol Hill next year.
The pollsters much-disputed wisdom, which has generated immense vitriol and some rational debate online, comes in the form of Back to the Center, Democrats, a New York Times op-ed (co-authored by a former Manhattan borough president, Andrew Stein). As the title suggests, the thesis is that the Democrats message has been hijacked by the so-called Elizabeth Warren wing of the party and must shift right if it is to recapture the House of Representatives, not to mention the White House.
Penn and Stein write:
Central to the Democrats diminishment has been their loss of support among working-class voters, who feel abandoned by the partys shift away from moderate positions on trade and immigration, from backing police and tough anti-crime measures, from trying to restore manufacturing jobs. They saw the party being mired too often in political correctness, transgender bathroom issues and policies offering more help to undocumented immigrants than to the heartland.
Others have made similar arguments since Hillary Clintons loss, but Penn has a credibility that comes with having engineered Bill Clintons re-election campaign in 1996. He was also a close adviser on Hillary Clintons 2008 presidential campaign, if not exactly a well-liked one. As John Heilemann and Mark Halperin reported in Game Change, their popular book about that years presidential campaign, others in the Clinton camp found him arrogant and amoral, a detrimental force whose perniciousness was amplified by his inexplicably tight bond with the Clintons.
http://www.newsweek.com/move-center-democrats-mark-penn-op-ed-inspires-furios-debate-633046
BigmanPigman
(51,567 posts)Skittles
(153,113 posts)he is a fucking TOOL
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Fuck Mark Penn.
Warpy
(111,164 posts)then he needs to change is voter registration to Republican or Libertarian or some other splinter party out there.
His way DOES NOT WORK. We're Democrats, not Eisenhower Republicans. He's not going to budge any of us on that one.
brutus smith
(685 posts)RKP5637
(67,088 posts)to the values that used to get Dems elected rather than some of this bullshit of following republicans and getting brown nose! Damn, I'm so fed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me.
(35,454 posts)Mr. DLC and his friend the founder of Third Way/or Dems should just appease obviously haven't learned anything from the past.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There are people who want a society with inclusive, humane, egalitarian and respect-based values, and there are people who are obsessed with obedience, conformity and "order".
The way to win is to unite the humane majority.
RKP5637
(67,088 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)-in absolute revulsion at your failed, defeatist vision of Democratic politics.
As Jim Hightower said "There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos".
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Why is it always the Dems who have to surrender their principles? Does he not care what his proposed strategies mean for Americans?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)The Clinton's do love him though.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Bernie Sanders has been saying since the election: "Central to the Democrats diminishment has been their loss of support among working-class voters, who feel abandoned by the partys shift away from . . . positions on trade and immigration, . . . from trying to restore manufacturing jobs. They saw the party being mired too often in political correctness" (i.e., "identity politics" .
I could swear I've heard that before. (except the immigration part, but that's a little bit implicit).
Sanders consistently has a great voting record on Women's issues, LGBT issues, minority rights issues, voter rights issues, and on criminal justice reform issues across the board. Yes he has stressed economic issues, but he is strong on identity and social justice issues also. You really have to bend over backwards to call Sanders "centrist" in any way. Trust me, Penn wants the Democrats to have nothing to do with the likes of Sanders.
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)You try to find common ground in his words about " the party's shift away from...positions on trade and immigration." Penn's word found where those dots are is "moderate" -- in other words, NAFTA, GATT. and the other moves toward globalized "free trade" that characterized Bill's administration. If Penn thinks that's what the "working class" supports, note that was the one area where Trump broke from Republican orthodoxy, and his seeming embrace of a protectionist agenda has a lot to do with why he made inroads in that group where Cruz, Jeb!, Rubio et. al. couldn't. If Penn thinks the way to win back the working class is by promising more "free trade," he's a bigger fool than even I thought.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)I honestly think that Sen. Sanders has been saying sort of the same thing in the last few months...while I don't think we should move left at this moment with a center left country, we cannot sacrifice our principles either...including both social justice and economic justice.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)mvd
(65,161 posts)and helped sink Hillary's 2008 campaign.
A progressive economic message and social message will fire up our base, which we need. It's not a good plan to try for those moderate Republicans so much.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts)NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN!!!!!!
mcar
(42,278 posts)Where, exactly is that?
Greybnk48
(10,162 posts)the party left me?" Make no mistake, I hate Ronnie on a cellular level and always have.
But if the Democratic Party moves farther left than it was already pulled by the "fundy" nuts during the Bill Clinton administration, I believe it will have left many behind, myself included.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)During the Clinton Administration?
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)has me scratching my head. Maybe an attempt at sarcasm?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)To say he's out of touch is an understatement.
Vogon_Glory
(9,109 posts)Why should we Democrats move to the center? I remember campaigning for former president Obama in 2012 and some of my fellow phone-bankers were former Republicans who left the GOP after The Gingrich-era sharp right turn. Many of us jokingly made our best Nixon impersonations off the phones and said that we were perfectly clear--we were working to re-elect the President. President Obama's party (and Hillary's, too) maintained a lot of the social safety net that had been put in place by LBJ and mostly maintained by Democratic successors.
I see no reason why the Democratic Party should move farther right to attempt to appeal to an aged and bamboozled population of geriatric whites too credulous to think for themselves and vote to defend their own interests.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Mark Penn is on the cutting edge of modern politics.
Demonaut
(8,914 posts)Softail1
(56 posts)...the thought that we shouldn't change ANYTHING is just plain nuts..umm..last I checked we haven't done very well in recent elections..can't believe how big the blinders are that some people have on.
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)It's pretty much the same as that of the "mainstream" Republicans who got stomped by Trump during the primaries. That should tell you something.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,495 posts)and whatever this has been tool is?
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,546 posts)The Party needs to go left, left, left and left some more..........
Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)The Repugs: washed up has-beens that need to disappear.
The Dems need to seek the most Progressive positions possible. That's where the majority of the population are.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)authored the contract with America and led the successful impeachment of Bill Clinton. He was extremely successful at advancing GOP policy too. He is also an evil piece of shit...but that is another subject.
Pachamama
(16,884 posts).....plan to become a little more like them....
That didn't work out to well as history taught us....at least those of us who paid attention to the lessons of the past of human history.
So, hell no....If the Center means moving over to what the current Trump fanatics and GOP call themselves, then there is no way moving anywhere near that is up for debate.
burrowowl
(17,632 posts)Compared to Europe most DEMs are slightly less than Center Right. Hell Eisenhower was father Left!
TDale313
(7,820 posts)So hell no. Republicans have dragged the political discourse rightward for decades, with Dems chasing them to the right thinking they can fill the void. Enough already.
Foamfollower
(1,097 posts)The left killed itself with its own extremism and demands of purity, so they must be discarded in favor of the center.
struggle4progress
(118,236 posts)There never ever has been a well-defined "center" -- our task is to create it
Plenty of people understand this fact, and not all of them are our friends: but they're busily trying to craft a center before we do
democrank
(11,085 posts)We're not going to take back all the state and federal seats we've lost by Penn-ing the Democratic Party platform. Penn and his DLC buddies are a big reason our party is where it's at. They're the folks who preach against people on welfare while they attend zillion-Dollar fundraisers with the beautiful people.
Penn is a snake. Why the Clintons favored him so is a mystery.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)We need a fifty state solution and that means fielding moderate candidates for some states...whenever we have the left coming against us and the right in a perfect storm, we lose... since the 70's. Let's just unite and vote for any Dem left standing after the primaries...now that will stop Trump.