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Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:21 PM

 

The contrast in the 2016 election was astounding.

One candidate campaigned on open bigotry, the other on inclusiveness.

One candidate sold economic pipedreams and lies, the other offered realistic and rational solutions.

One candidate was a fucking ignorant idiot in regards to foreign policy, the other candidate was the most knowledgeable foreign policy candidate we have ever had.

One candidate didn't believe in the need for environmental protections. The other candidate was endorsed by the best environmental groups we have.

One candidate, didn't understand the health care crises at all. The other candidate has spend her life working on improving health care access.

One candidate was a selfish, racist, sexist, bigoted, asshole moron. The other candidate has been the most admired person in the world for decades.

This wasn't rocket science.

38 replies, 4044 views

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply The contrast in the 2016 election was astounding. (Original post)
NYResister Jul 2017 OP
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #1
lunamagica Jul 2017 #2
D_Master81 Jul 2017 #3
lunamagica Jul 2017 #8
LisaM Jul 2017 #31
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #4
lunamagica Jul 2017 #7
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #11
lunamagica Jul 2017 #13
betsuni Jul 2017 #22
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #10
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #12
YCHDT Jul 2017 #15
NanceGreggs Jul 2017 #30
YCHDT Jul 2017 #14
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #16
YCHDT Jul 2017 #19
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #34
betsuni Jul 2017 #21
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #35
triron Jul 2017 #20
pnwmom Jul 2017 #28
customerserviceguy Jul 2017 #33
pnwmom Jul 2017 #37
leftstreet Jul 2017 #5
lib-ruhl Jul 2017 #6
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #9
MichMan Jul 2017 #17
NYResister Jul 2017 #18
JHan Jul 2017 #27
JI7 Jul 2017 #36
BootinUp Jul 2017 #23
bdjhawk Jul 2017 #26
betsuni Jul 2017 #24
NYResister Jul 2017 #25
CentralMass Jul 2017 #29
ecstatic Jul 2017 #32
JI7 Jul 2017 #38

Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:28 PM

1. And yet

it turned out the way that it did. Trump's entire campaign should have left him with less than 30% of the vote, and not a single electoral vote anywhere in the country.

But, he did something that made it work, somehow, and until we understand it, we are threatened by it at least one more time.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:32 PM

2. Get help from Russia, gerrymandering, fueling the fears of the ignorant, just to

name a few things

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:35 PM

3. gerrymandering

while i agree with your other statements, gerrymandering has nothing to do w/ a national election.

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:45 PM

8. My mistake. Sorry

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 01:53 AM

31. Yes, in a way it does.

It creates non-representative state legislatures that enact suppressio tactics like Cross Check and voter ID laws.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:37 PM

4. Gerrymandering

refers to how the House representatives stack up, it has nothing to do with either the Senate or the Electoral College. And the people who voted for Trump probably are not big fans of Russia. As far as the ignorance factor goes, I will indeed give you that.

But ask yourself, what makes them so ignorant as to not see something so obvious? And why couldn't we enlighten enough of them to the point where they would rather stay home than vote for him?

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:45 PM

7. You are right about gerrymandering, sorry. As for the rest, did you see today's poll in which

most republicans are against a college education? That's a big problem. People who are uneducated and proud of it, raising children to be just like them...I don't know what can be done about that

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:05 PM

11. I can understand that, at least a bit

Look how many people come out of college with degrees they cannot turn into income, saddled with mountains of student debt, and no way to pay it back. I was speaking with a friend of mine who tends the beer bar I frequent when I'm back in NY, and he told me that he's making so little, he doesn't have to make any payments on his student loan. What a depressing concept, that your strategy for dealing with the cost of your education is to never be able to make enough money to pay it back.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:17 PM

13. I get your point. But I doubt that's the reason for them. I think that to them an education upens up

your mind too much, makes you think from different perspectives, and well, it is a threat to their rigid way of life and thought. Yjat's what I believe, anyway.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:36 PM

22. They're mad about the protests when certain conservatives speak at universites.

That's why the recent increase, but of course the religious fundamentalists don't like education at all and that must be a large percent of Republicans these days.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:51 PM

10. Bigotry. Putin. Oppression/suppression of vote. FBI. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:11 PM

12. As I said upthread

I doubt that the people who voted for Trump are big fans of Russia, or Putin, for that matter. Were they duped by Russian lies in the media? Perhaps, but how is that really fundamentally different from being duped by Republicon lies, especially those emanating from the mouth of Donald Trump?

As for bigotry, I remember the 1968 election, where, with George Wallace bleeding off the worst of the racists, Nixon still won. Maybe it was a factor last year. And as for voter suppression, is that really a thing in Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan?

The Comey thing was indeed a roller coaster, but it resonated with people who were already distrustful of Hillary Clinton, those who believed in her didn't give a damn what the FBI director said.

Something else happened here, and unless we figure out both what it was, and how to stop it, it threatens the hell out of us in three years.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:22 PM

15. Russia?!?!? Or is the left still in denial??!?

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Response to YCHDT (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:51 AM

30. Or is it those posing as "the left" ...

... still in denial about Russian involvement?

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:19 PM

14. Russia?!?!? Or is the left still in denial??!?

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Response to YCHDT (Reply #14)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 10:23 PM

16. Tell me how people

in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania were swayed in any way by Putin or any other Russian.

If you're alleging that vote totals in those places were tampered with, I can see that, but we need proof. Just having the Russians serve up the content of Podesta's actual emails was more the DNC's fault than Putin's.

My motto is, "Don't put anything on the Internet that you wouldn't print on a billboard that is above your house."

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:24 PM

19. I know 2 who were ... what else ?! You do realize the " no one was swayed " meme is easily

... falisfiable seeing there was 120 million people who voted right!?

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Response to YCHDT (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:31 AM

34. My theory

is that those who voted for Trump hated Hillary so severely, that whatever the Russians did, wouldn't have made one iota of difference to them.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:29 PM

21. But Pizzagate was concocted from conversations about pizza.

That was something you could print on a billboard above your house. There's no way to know what they'll take and twist into something diabolical.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:33 AM

35. Good point

But we have to ask, what kind of people would believe such trash? My answer is, those who think the worst about Hillary Clinton, and who would never, ever vote for her. Did they have an influence on their wishy-washy friends? We may never know.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:28 PM

20. yeah conspired with the Russians.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:28 AM

28. His party had been working on gerrymandering for at least a decade, and large-scale

voter suppression since 2013. Add in the Russian hacking and the Comey letter bombs, and that is why it turned out the way it did.

And we will continue to be threatened by vote suppression and by Russian hacking unless we fight for our democracy.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:26 AM

33. Ugh, again

Gerrymandering is about what goes on in the House of Representatives, not the Senate or the Electoral College.

Tell me how Russia has an influence on voters in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, and maybe I'll believe that Russian meddling changed the outcome of the last election. Yeah, the Comey thing, I get somewhat, but it only worked on people who didn't already think that Hillary was some kind of saint.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:50 AM

37. Did you watch the Senate hearings? You must have missed Clint Watts

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:37 PM

5. I don't think people were really paying attention

Everyone assumed Hillary would win

Trump seemed like a joke candidate

Not saying it's right or fair, I just think A LOT of people are now saying WTF? and wondering what happened

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:40 PM

6. Agreed.

I thought as a country we were better than this. I'm still scratching my head trying to finds answers that makes some sense. I'm still searching.

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 09:49 PM

9. One candidate was man. One candidate was woman.

 

Ya, I am sure that had nothing to do with it. 110%? Not even. 500% more to win.

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:00 PM

17. One aspect that isn't given much attention

There had only been one instance since WWII that the same party won three straight terms and that was 1988.

That was something that nearly everyone glossed over.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:21 PM

18. I didn't. I'm well aware of how the pendulum swings.

 

Just like we knew there was no way a Republican would win in 2008, it was also against our odds in 2016. But then came Trump.

And there is no serious way to explain him. One could understand a Rubio or Kasich. Trump makes no sense whatsoever.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:11 AM

27. yep.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:39 AM

36. i was aware of it so knew it would not be easy for any democrat just based on this

and yet Hillary still got about the same number of Votes than Obama did in 2012 and without the SC striking down VRA it might have been a bit more.

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:39 PM

23. One candidate lied every minute...

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:07 AM

26. And FAUX and other RW media

and the lying candidate who continuously said (and convinced the blind lemmings) that it was the OTHER candidate who was lying!!! "She lies"!!!!!!! Dumb!!!

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:49 PM

24. I wonder if one of the reasons people don't vote is because the length of the election.

They get so sick of it they tune it out. And in our modern world it's easy to tailor what you see and hear. You can look down at your tablet and put in earphones and seal yourself off from reality. Reality is not popular. Except reality shows which are not reality. Fake is the new reality.

There are so many factors involved, a little of this, little of that, a lot of the other. And I do think voting machines were tampered with. Rove's face that election night when he wouldn't believe the numbers coming in proved it to me.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 11:56 PM

25. I'm sure that plays a part in it.

 

The media has turned our elections into reality television.

It's not hard to see how many would tune out, and turn off.

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:37 AM

29. Here is an interesting opinion peice that discusses the limits of identity politics ability to win

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Tue Jul 11, 2017, 03:09 AM

32. The election was stolen

For months, Pres. Obama insisted that Trump could never win. I was really really worried but I eventually calmed down because I trusted Obama's judgment of Americans. When you consider that plus the pre and post election polls, the popular vote, Trump's behavior, and what we now know about hacking, Trump stole it. Period.

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Response to NYResister (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:56 AM

38. but they didn't talk about those things. they kept referring to Clinton as establishment and Deeply

flawed.

they kept talking about Trump as businessman and says what he thinks and .

the media deserves a lot of blame for that.

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