Mueller's firing is inevitable....here's how I think it goes down, and what happens afterward:

[tableturner]

Since Trump knows what he has done, and since the investigation has been going full steam for a while now, he know's he is toast unless a wild hail Mary works (which won't). He will try any hail Mary he can think up....eventually leading to his firing Mueller, and pardoning his crew....all of them....because they are all caught, too.

As for Mueller, his assistant prosecutors, the DOJ, and the FBI.....you KNOW that they all have known that there is a huge chance he will get fired. They have to have some time bombs waiting for that possible eventuality. What they are, I do not know for sure......

However.....there probably are at least some sealed federal indictments waiting for the full investigation to be finished. The NY AG most likely has some charges ready, also. If Mueller is fired, I think immediate federal charges will be unsealed right before it happens.

I say immediate because I think it will go down like this:

1. Trump orders Rosenstein to fire Mueller.

2. Rosenstein will not do it, but he can stall for at least a few minutes.

3. He calls Mueller and lets him know it is about to happen, and the pre-arranged plan is activated.

4. Rosenstein approves indictments of the entire Trump group, which are made public almost instantly, which include indictments of Ryan and McConnell (for being involved with Russian campaign donations), along with unindicted co-conspirator designations for Trump and Pence.

5. Rosenstein resigns.

6. Others resign until Trump finds the one who will do the deed, and Mueller is fired.

7. For good measure, the NY AG issues indictments (with more to follow).

8. Trump issues pardons.

9. Total and complete hell breaks loose.

10. The total and complete hell to which I just referred manifests itself as a furor the likes of which has never been seen before in this country, and impeachment proceedings for Trump and Pence start immediately, with help from those GOP reps who are not involved with the Russia mess (it's Russia...most of them have hated Russia for a long time....they can only take so much, especially after Trump's capitulations at the G20 conference, and it doesn't take that many of them to join the Dems for this to happen).

11. Trump and crew immediately flee the country, heading to mother Russia, rather than just stay and wait to be jailed for decades.

12. Hatch becomes president after Trump and Pence abandon their offices (Ryan resigns and/or refuses to accede to the presidency), and Hatch forms a coalition government, naming Hillary Clinton as VP.

13. Trump is impeached....then Pence immediately thereafter (both in absentia).

14. A complete government stalemate ensues, getting partially cleared up by the mid term elections, which will be a total tidal wave defeat of the Republicans.

15. Unless her health falters, Hillary runs for president in 2020 and wins.

What are your thoughts?

[Johnny2X2X]

1. No leaks

No leaks from Mueller and his team means they understand that they need to hide what they are doing until they are done. This might let them finish.

[cilla4progress]

2. Gawd

I could live with that outcome!

One more thing: Conservatives/ Republicans are out of power for foreseeable generations!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Me too!

[Stargleamer]

3. It gets more and more Nixonian as it progresses n/t

[L. Coyote]

4. When will Yellowstone caldera erupt? Who will win the World Series in 2023?

Please, the real answers, no speculations ....

[tableturner]

40. I'd tell you to ask Miss Cleo, but she died not long ago.....

[L. Coyote]

50. Did you find out before or after?

[CanonRay]

52. Answer: 2022

The second part is a trick question, as there is no World Series in 2023 due to the eruption and the end of mankind. You're welcome.

[L. Coyote]

55. Nailed it. I didn't think anyone else knew.

[pangaia]

5. Could work.

What should I do with my shares of PONDX?

[klook]

6. Hurry and write this novel! (nt)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Step away from the bong... There an awful lot of holes in this fantasy.

Rosenstein can't "approve" indictments, nor can any other prosecutor. Grand juries, not prosecutors, issue indictments, and those indictments are not issued until the grand juries have heard witnesses. In this case there would be a lot of them and it will take a long time.

The NY AG can't issue indictments either, for the same reason.

A president can't pardon state crimes, so if any of the Trumps are charged with state crimes in NY, Trump can't get them off the hook.

The Trumps wouldn't go to Russia because Putin is not their friend. Chances are they'd wind up in a gulag, or worse.

In no known (or unknown) universe would Ryan turn down the presidency.

In no known (or unknown) universe would Hatch form any kind of coalition with Hillary.

Hillary will not run in 2020, nor should she.

[jaysunb]

10. I thought you were doing well until you got to # 11 n/t

[ecstatic]

30. lol. me too. It was funny though! nt

[tableturner]

39. It's not out of the question. Why not have some fun? Can you imagine news agencies' jets

following Trump's jet on the way to Russia? It would make the OJ Bronco chase look like small potatoes. The TV news stations could show the Flight Aware map on screen so the public could see the progress of the plane heading to Moscow. Would be a hell of a show!

[tableturner]

42. I can hear Katy Tur now (exultantly)..."Well, Lester, we can see a small dot ahead of us.

We assume that is Trump's jet. The plane seems to be traveling steadily to the northeast. We'll let you know when we get more info."

"Thanks, Katy.....let's go to Jacob Soboroff at Players sports bar in Manhattan..."

"Yes, Lester, I'm talking to Dante Farelli, a Knicks fan coming to watch his favorite team....he and the rest of the bar is glued to the Trump air chase. Dante.....what are you thinking now?"

"Well.....I was looking forward to a good time watching the Knicks play the Bulls, but heck, this is ten times better!I hope Ryan and McConnell follow Trump tomorrow night. The hell with basketball!"

"Okay, Lester....back to you....we'll be talking to more bar patrons later."

"Thanks, Jacob.....we're now going to Steve Kornacki, in North New Jersey....

"Lester....Trump lied and said that Muslims in New Jersey were cheering on the rooftops of their houses when 911 happened. Well, I'm here to tell you now that Muslims, and all other ethnic groups are up on their rooftops cheering and shouting 'Death to Comrade Trump!' I'll have some interviews later."

"We'll be back after a word from our sponsors."

[ecstatic]

43. Lol! An air chase would be funny

Although... can any of his planes handle a chase? Didn't Pence almost crash on the runway in Trump's plane?

[tableturner]

41. If he ends up fleeing to Russia, you guys please remember this post.

Talk about needing popcorn for a show! Can you imagine the traffic flood on DU if that were to happen?

[magicarpet]

48. Popcorn....

...... you must be kidding.

More like Russian caviar, lobster, and champagne.

With 100 US Air Force fighter jets escort to the Russian air space border and dump the whole tr-dump clan in Putin's lap.

[snooper2]

54. your more giving then me, I was going to say up until #8

[pnwmom]

16. At least one Grand Jury has already been empaneled and it's possible

that some sealed indictments already exist.

And Grand Juries don't issue ALL indictments; some are approved by a Judge.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. That is not correct. Only a grand jury can issue an indictment.

According to Rule 6, Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, a federal indictment can only be brought by a grand jury, which consists of 16-23 people. A judge must call (convene) a grand jury "when the public interest so requires." Those selected to serve on the grand jury do so for approximately one year, after which a new grand jury is selected by the U.S. District Court. The grand jury hears evidence and testimony from witnesses presented by the prosecution, and has the power to ask questions and subpoena witnesses and documents on its own. Once the grand jury hears the evidence, it can vote to indict or not, based on whether they believe there is probable cause to believe the defendant is guilty.

A minimum of 16 grand jurors must be present to vote (a quorum), and at least 12 must vote in favor of an indictment before charges can be brought. If the grand jury votes to indict, it will return a “true bill,” signed by the foreperson of the grand jury.

In other words, a judge can order a grand jury to be convened, but only the grand jury itself can actually issue an indictment.

A grand jury has been convened in the Eastern District of Virginia, but grand juries hear more than one case during their terms.

[pnwmom]

19. How do you know the existing Grand Jury in Virginia hasn't issued any sealed indictments? n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. I don't. I was only explaining the GJ procedures. Nobody is allowed to know whether

any sealed indictments have been issued. So if somebody claims that there *are* sealed indictments, they're just speculating or making shit up. Here's why:

Rule 6 says &quot 4) Sealed Indictment. The magistrate judge to whom an indictment is returned may direct that the indictment be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been released pending trial. The clerk must then seal the indictment, and no person may disclose the indictment's existence except as necessary to issue or execute a warrant or summons."

[pnwmom]

23. True, but the OP was just speculating, and it is plausible to me that there COULD

be sealed indictments pending the finish of the rest of the investigation. Surely in a large case Grand Juries don't issue all the indictments on the same day; some must be sealed, to be unsealed at the proper time.

[tableturner]

32. You are absolutely correct....I was speculating that there were sealed indictments that would

be released at an appropriate time. That is a plausible scenario, for sure.

And Ocelat, you're being a bit too picky. I should have used the word "release" instead of "issued". Yes, the grand jury returns indictments. When to act on and publicize is determined by multiple factors. I am not sure what the proper word is, but sealed indictments are eventually unsealed and acted upon. That'a all I was saying.

[Laffy Kat]

8. Imma bookmark this OP.

[enid602]

9. Coup

When tRump fires Mueller (and I feel he has no other choice but to do so), our country will have effectively suffered a coup. Whether or not that coup is effective, however depends on the loyalties of the military and IC. I'm not sure these organizations will back tRump.

[Freethinker65]

11. Trump resigns saying the country does not deserve him.

Last edited Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)

He and his cabal are free to live out their lives in grifter luxury...but as most are now shunned in the U.S. by the wealthy donor elites, they will spend little time here. Melania will profess her love for Trump, but seek separation soon after the resignation and return to her native Slovenia. Trump will die a clueless obese demented man at one of his foreign properties. The Republicans in power will close down all investigations for "the good of the country" and "healing" to occur. The Democrats will go along without much of a choice. Pence becomes President and encourages a rousing unity speech from Hillary. She obliges, then is sent back to obscurity. The country will be in shock. The GOP will continue to pass conservative "Christian" agenda with ultra conservative court appointments. Voter purges will be accelerated. The Democrats will gain some seats in the House, but not enough for control, and will not gain control of the Senate in 2018. Pence will have competition from the GOP in the 2020 presidential primary.

[SJMULE]

13. that sounds about right

"The Democrats will go along without much of a choice. Pence becomes President and encourages a rousing unity speech from Hillary. She obliges, then is sent back to obscurity."
And if the Dems capitulate like this instead of putting their boots and heels on the neck of every Trump apologist and GOP apologist to bury them for eternity, they deserve the scorn and no votes of every patriotic American.

[emulatorloo]

20. Hillary will not prop up that homophobic theocrat. Besides he colluded w Russia as well

KNew exactly what Flynn was up to w Russia and lied about it.

[onenote]

14. My thoughts? You have a possible future as a writer of political fantasy.

[Mme. Defarge]

15. You had me except for

12 & 15.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

17. Sounds...Ukrainian.

[jmowreader]

21. I don't see a role for Hillary in this caretaker government, sorry

Hillary's an awesome leader, but 30-plus years of right wing attacks have polarized the nation.

If I was going to pick one person to swear he'll come in, keep the nation on an even keel working with Orrin Hatch while the entire Trump Administration is being packed into tumbrils, and then step aside in 2020...I'm going with Joe Manchin, who is a bland moderate. We need a new Gerald Ford - a guy who won't break anything and will keep the Naval Observatory dusted for a couple of years. Manchin will do.

In 2020, we need someone who can communicate with both liberals and conservatives. With Hillary we don't get the Bernie Wing and we don't get anyone even slightly to the right of Hillary. My pick's Al Franken; even if you don't like his politics, you probably like him.

[tableturner]

33. Biden would be perfect, I think, and I believe he would do it if the country were in a mess.

[phleshdef]

24. You had me until #11 and beyond.

Gets a lil crazy after that

[Patterson]

25. Trump won't go to Russia

He owes too much.

[Hamlette]

26. Rosenstein will not do #3 as it puts him in legal jeopardy, maybe disbarment,

and Mueller won't do #4 but other than that, good plan

[tableturner]

34. That makes no sense. Rosenstein is acting Attorney General with respect to the Russia investigaton.

He certainly consults with Mueller, especially about preserving the investigation and any pending indictments. The acting AG, while working with the special counsel he supervises, taking measures to preserve and ensure the integrity of an investigation is no violation of law, procedure, or code of ethics of attorneys.

For the same reason, I disagree with you about #4.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. Trump will have a breakdown, split in two, and fire himself.

The fire-Mueller ship has sailed.

[Samantha]

28. Mueller cannot be fired except for cause

This was specifically said publicly when his appointment was announced. So it does seem to me that would be Trump's desperation move to save himself, but what is he going to use for cause?

Sam

[tableturner]

35. He will come up with more lies. If it were you, and you knew you were caught, wouldn't you try

anything you could think of, as opposed to doing nothing and voluntarily consigning oneself to going to prison?

[Samantha]

57. That would NEVER be me but that aside, I would try to negotiate a deal

It will not be as easy to push Mueller to the side as it was Comey. And if Mueller perceived his termination was unjust, he just might not leave. I wouldn't.

Sam

[oldtime dfl_er]

29. what?

you're letting Jeff Sessions off scot free?????

[tableturner]

36. Forgot him, plus Conway, maybe more.....

[Kablooie]

31. And Trump is sent to a labor camp in Russia for screwing up Putin's grand plan.

[tableturner]

38. He didn't screw up Putin's plan. It worked. We got a pathetic president, which is good for Russia

for a multitude of reasons we all know. There is much discord in our country, which was one of his goals. If Trump gets thrown out of office, the discord, confusion, and even the country's security vulnerability will go to maximum levels. It worked....it was a long shot that it would work at all. Plus, he may have gotten a lot of good info, and the average citizen may not ever know what that is.

[grantcart]

37. A couple of points

1) Undated pardons have already been prepared and signed for all of the main Trump family members including Trump and Bannon and a few others and are sitting in their attorney's safes. they will be point one not eight.

2) There will be an effort to get someone who is completely unattached to the government, a Gerald Ford type to give them a new break. Mitch Daniels would be a good choice from their point of view.

[tableturner]

56. #1 is certainly possible; #2: May not be enough time for Trump/Pence to choose someone.

[Mike Nelson]

44. Would make a great film...

...agree with your thesis...he has to do something to try and stop the investigation... but, I think Trump would favor a much more cowardly exit strategy... he would resign and damn the "rigged" investigation which "wrongly" revealed him. Your way is much more fun, though!

[Lee-Lee]

45. Muellers position has civil service protections, he can't just be fired

It in fact would require a long, drawn out process to fire him.

If anyone here has ever worked for the Federal Government you know how that goes. I have seen cases where an employee actually phycially assaulted their supervisor on the job to the point the supervisor was hospitalized and the employee was arrested and 3 weeks later that employee was still on the payroll as the process of firing them slowly proceeded.

The idea of Trump firing him is fantasy, absent some serious and provable in a hearing misconduct on Muellers part.

[Achilleaze]

46. 16. republicans sit on their asses and do nothing to defend America

against the ongoing ACTS OF WAR* russia is launching on America.

* per dick freaking cheney, for god's sake.

[Stinky The Clown]

47. Have you contacted Aaron Sorkin with this?

[FSogol]

49. You watch too many sitcoms. In the real world, everything doesn't get wrapped up neatly at the end

of the episode. Numbers 11-15 are pure unadulterated nonsense.

[CanonRay]

51. I'm with you up until #10

He pardons everyone. Congress does nothing. All hell is a bunch of "crybaby snowflake Libtards" and who gives a shit. Trump stays in office to the end of his term, the GOP does everything possible to ensure they cannot lose even if they lost, and run Pence or some other flunky.

11. We're fucked.

[oldtime dfl_er]

58. I'm afraid I agree with this

sadly

[Javaman]

53. man on the street...

while all of what you wrote happens...

alt right nuts go nuts.

either because they support tRump or, more likely, they see an opportunity to seed dissension among the general population in hopes of starting some sort of internal civil/race war.