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Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:21 PM

Angry Fellows

I don't feel bitterness. I don't feel anger towards anybody. Fighting is never emotional to me.
Conor McGregor


It has been a fascinating week in terms of watching the Trump mob beginning to decompose before our very eyes. If we think of the Trump campaign and administration as toxic chemical compounds, we know to look for them to break down under the stress, into smaller components. Let's take a brief gander at but two events other than the Donald, Junior show.

The first involves Trump's lawyer, Marc Kasowitz. He had an issue with anger this past week, where he sent some threatening e-mails to a fellow, as detailed in the below link. Like Trump, he clearly has anger issues. It seems he is under some pressure. Some people have attempted to excuse this, by mentioning his ongoing battle with alcoholism. That's not a defense when it comes to things like DWI, assault, or threatening people, however.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/13/us/marc-kasowitz-email-trump-lawyer.html

The second involves Trump's long-time friend, Roger Stone. He was set to testify to the House committee investigating the Trump-Russian scandal. However, on a radio program, he made some threatening statements about two Democratic members of the committee. He, too, shares Trump's anger issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-14/stone-testimony-in-house-russia-probe-delayed-after-radio-tirade

The ancient philosopher Confucius said that when anger arises, one must consider the consequences. Buddha taught that one will not be punished for becoming angry, but that one will instead be punished by that anger. These are concepts that the Trump crew are incapable of grasping, as their anger over the Trump-Russian scandal creates increasing pressure upon them.

In the weeks ahead, we will witness more outbursts of anger, and as Lawrence O'Donnell has pointed out, these result in further breakdowns between groups and individuals within the Trump team.

Mr. Mueller and his team, however, are not acting out of anger.

Enjoy the show.
H2O Man

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Angry Fellows (Original post)
H2O Man Jul 2017 OP
tblue37 Jul 2017 #1
H2O Man Jul 2017 #11
Nitram Jul 2017 #2
H2O Man Jul 2017 #12
denbot Jul 2017 #3
TheBlackAdder Jul 2017 #5
H2O Man Jul 2017 #13
lunatica Jul 2017 #4
oxbow Jul 2017 #7
H2O Man Jul 2017 #17
oxbow Jul 2017 #31
H2O Man Jul 2017 #16
Boomerproud Jul 2017 #6
H2O Man Jul 2017 #19
Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #8
H2O Man Jul 2017 #20
grantcart Jul 2017 #9
Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #10
H2O Man Jul 2017 #22
H2O Man Jul 2017 #21
Ligyron Jul 2017 #14
H2O Man Jul 2017 #23
malaise Jul 2017 #15
H2O Man Jul 2017 #24
spanone Jul 2017 #18
H2O Man Jul 2017 #25
raven mad Jul 2017 #26
H2O Man Jul 2017 #28
Me. Jul 2017 #27
H2O Man Jul 2017 #29
Me. Jul 2017 #30
H2O Man Jul 2017 #32
Me. Jul 2017 #33
H2O Man Jul 2017 #34
coeur_de_lion Jul 2017 #35
lunatica Jul 2017 #36
coeur_de_lion Jul 2017 #37
H2O Man Jul 2017 #38
coeur_de_lion Jul 2017 #39
H2O Man Jul 2017 #40

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:34 PM

1. K&R. nt

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:31 PM

11. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:51 PM

2. You are right. This dysfunctional crew is likely to erupt in a furious feeding frenzy,

like sharks when there is too much blood in the water.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:34 PM

12. Right.

And it's their own blood!

Crazy times. Watching the republican spokespersons attempting to normalize this -- or blame Clinton or Obama -- is hilarious.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:52 PM

3. Anger's nothing, just wait until panic takes hold.

That will be the signal to breakout the premium popcorn.

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Response to denbot (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:09 PM

5. Then, we get to see Libertarianism on full display as people start to enter Hobbes's State of Nature

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Response to denbot (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:37 PM

13. I agree.

I think that fear is already there, but they still think that they can control this. At this point, they believe they may have to sacrifice a couple more people. When they understand it is out of their control, panic will be even funnier.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:56 PM

4. The angrier they get the more calm I feel

Which means I consider unbridled anger to be a real weakness of character. Mostly because when you act in anger you're self justification is that it's OK because you're angry.

All that needs to happen is to strive to keep them in that state. I'm sure this must be a war tactic somewhere.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:22 PM

7. I feel like they've shown us their triggers pretty clearly

Being laughed at
Being caught in a lie
Being contradicted or told they can't do something
Being made to feel smaller or less than in any way
Feel free to add to the list

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Response to oxbow (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:35 PM

17. Being laughed at

surely pisses them off. I think getting indicted, tried, and convicted will, too.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 10:18 PM

31. Something tells me they won't like that at all :). Eom

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Response to lunatica (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:34 PM

16. I agree.

I've noted the republican nonsense that "Democrats are getting frustrated and angry." I don't see that. I do see some younger folks who are a bit impatient, but most of us understand that things are unfolding far quicker than in Watergate, etc.

There is a rising anger among the John Birchers, who are beginning to recognize that Trump is in big trouble. I expect that some of them will start acting out soon. It's a shame that they lack the insight required to know that they've been had.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:14 PM

6. Stone has had issues his entire adult life (probably before) and someone should have made him

accountable for his actions decades ago. Bottom feeder extraordinaire. He has NO redeeming qualities.

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Response to Boomerproud (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:42 PM

19. Well said!

He has been a creep for his entire life. I have difficulty watching him -- I try not to judge people by looks, but he seems half-lizard to me -- and his personality is repulsive. He reminds me of some of the fellows I saw in forensic groups, and I knew they had committed crimes they were never charged with, well beyond those that landed them at the clinic or in jail.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:41 PM

8. Excellent. Anger is toxic and damages your own team. An angry warrior is a dead warrior -- Musashi.

Replace anger with cold loathing and regain focus and sharpness.

Make the other side angry. The angrier they are the more mistakes they make.





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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:49 PM

20. Thanks for this!

I fought a lot when I was young. I can't say that I never entered the ring angry, or became angry in a fight. But I learned the hard way why that just isn't good .....other than being a good way to get hurt. And that same dynamic applies to politics, especially when it involves crime.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:43 PM

9. Confusius, Buddha, Trump. Which one of these three is unlike the other?

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Response to grantcart (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:05 PM

10. Hard to know. All 3 are confusing. All 3 are from bygone eras. All 3 are overweight. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:53 PM

22. All three loved golf.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:52 PM

21. Too funny!

Thank you for cracking me up!

I doubt that Trump is aware of either of the other two, but I'd speculate that if he was, he'd view himself as far more consequential.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:56 PM

14. They also seem to attract angry people who they then make even angrier.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:00 PM

23. Key point.

Thank you for that. It seems safe to say that some of his supporters will become increasingly hostile in public as this continues to unfold. In fact, Trump and the alt-right media will encourage poor behaviors on their part. I strongly recommend that people not engage with them in public, etc.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:30 PM

15. They're in complete meltdown

It's great to watch their anger and confusion.

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Response to malaise (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:03 PM

24. Indeed, it is!

I saw that Chris Wallace spanked the repulsive Jay Sekulow on Fox this weekend. That's a bad sign for Trump. And a good sign for us!

This week should be entertaining.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:39 PM

18. K&R...

angry & mean....

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Response to spanone (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:04 PM

25. Thanks!

They are angry, mean, and spiteful.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:32 PM

26. Excellent.





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Response to raven mad (Reply #26)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 08:29 PM

28. I have a feeling

that the new week will be an unpleasant time for Trump & Co.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 07:12 PM

27. Once Again, Laye to The Game

KR

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Response to Me. (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 08:37 PM

29. I think it's

ironic that as his people don't appear in televised press conferences, or say to "ask the attorney," others in the White House are speaking to reporters. More, the legal representatives for Trump aren't doing well. Not even on Fox.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 16, 2017, 10:15 PM

30. That Would Be Late To The Game

His legal representatives? Barely....so far an alcoholic thug and a grifter par excellence. I saw Sekalow blaming the SS for Don jr., who wasn't under their protection yet. Would he even have told them or done a sneak meet & greet...would be so like him.

Not appearing on camera is kind of spooky...do they think that if you can't see them whatever they say doesn't count? I bet they all wish they had Harry Potter's invisible cloak.

I do wonder who is speaking...is it a circle thing where they're all trying to get rid of each other or....insiders who know what's going on is wrong and are trying to help bring it down. We may never know.

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Response to Me. (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 10:24 AM

32. We will know.

We know what took place within the Nixon White House. The current group isn't that good.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 10:26 AM

33. Amatuers

Lucky ones, but amateurs nevertheless

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Response to Me. (Reply #33)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 10:40 AM

34. We'll see

which ones are lucky, and which ones are not. Things are changing quickly now.

I see that Trump did some tweeting this morning.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 11:33 AM

35. What about our own anger?

I'll admit to toxic levels of anger the past several weeks. How do we soothe ourselves when we feel overburdened by anger?

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 12:09 PM

36. Do you have the power to be analytical?

One way to subdue the anger is to become as analytical about everything as you can. It will enable you to become objective about what's going on. You want to be able to be objective because it's much more likely that you'll see facts and truth whereas when you're angry you're caught up in nothing but seething emotion and are unable to see what's really happening.

That's my two cents worth.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #36)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 12:18 PM

37. Thanks that does help some

Lately I can't seem to choose between furious anger and ignoring the entire thing.

Having been disappointed before in a sort of similar situation (Plame) I don't hold out much hope for this to end well. I guess I don't anyway. I suppose anything is possible though.

I think I want some sort of guarantee that things will come down in our favor ultimately and that isn't possible. So rather than either get my hopes up or continue being angry I've been taking turns with anger/avoidance.

Neither is doing me any good!

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 04:31 PM

38. Good question.

All of us experience anger from time to time, in various aspects of our lives. It would be silly to deny that reality. And you are talking about in a specific aspect -- today's political reality, where a flaming ass-wipe is president, and mentally-dead republicans are supporting him, even though a majority of they recognize he is toxic. So we'll focus on that.

I believe Trump et al represent an extremely serious threat to our constitutional democracy (imperfect as it is). I'm convinced he poses a severe danger to my children's future, and to all the younger generations, both here and abroad. And I think that a lot of people believe the same basic thing. Right? So the question confronting us is what, if anything, are we going to do?

Every person has to answer that on an individual level. And that must, by definition, include what they will attempt both internally and externally. This is based upon an analysis of both what is important to them, and their beliefs about what capacities they have. And what they are willing to invest in the larger group process of confronting the illegal, unethical, and immoral nature of the Trump administration, and all of its cruelties.

To invest -- be it time, money, effort, etc -- means to transfer from one area of our lives to another, like writing a check from our bank account. It involves assessing how much we are each willing to give. It involves sacrifice. And when we consider it in that context, we come to a question: Do we merely want to continue a divisive conflict, or do we want to transform our society? While they both can be said to represent "change," one is short-sighted, while the other is far more comprehensive.

When you look at "politics" right now, be it in DC, on tv, or even an internet forum such as this -- it is easy to feel angry, for one is exposing one's self to anger. But most of that anger has zero potential for transforming the current dynamics into something better. Look at about 50% of OP/threads on this forum. People are clutching old hostilities, as if they were gold. Hence, there is absolutely no potential for them to make any progress -- as individuals, hence agents of change in society -- until they are willing to sacrifice that thing they so love and value: their anger.

This is, as you know, a concept central to Haudenosaunee thought: as groups and as individuals, we must access the Power of the Good Mind to achieve meaningful changes in society. You can't transform an angry society by remaining angry.

Finally, before I talk so much that you wish you hadn't asked, it generally works best as a conscious group effort. Only a few individuals do it on their own.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #38)

Mon Jul 17, 2017, 07:19 PM

39. Wow you never cease to amaze me H

That is a really thoughtful and inspiring answer.

So what if a group of us wanted to transform our anger into something more positive?

What would we do together as a group?

Sweat lodge is out of the question since we live so far apart.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #39)

Tue Jul 18, 2017, 03:05 PM

40. Such a group

could function on the internet.

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