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MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:14 PM Jul 2017

Things That Will Not Happen Before 2020

I've seen a lot of proposals on DU for what should be done about the fact that Donald Trump managed to become President. While some of them make sense, others simply don't. So, here's a list of things that have been suggested, but that are not possible, and that will not be possible before the next Presidential election. Let's move past these and look for things that can be done:

1. Reform the Electoral College System - That requires a constitutional amendment and there is zero chance of that happening.

2. Redo the 2016 Election Since It Was Illegitimate - Impossible. No mechanism exists for such a thing.

3. Impeach Donald Trump - Very unlikely, given the current Republican control of both houses of Congress. The 2/3 Senate vote required to remove a President is even more unlikely.

4. Have Hand-Counted Paper Ballots in All 50 States - Not possible. Voting is a state function, and most states are not at all interested in such a thing, since they depend on elections for Republicans to maintain power. No state with a Republican majority legislature or Governor will even consider this.

5. Set up a Recall Process for Presidential Elections - See number 1. A constitutional amendment would be needed.

6. Arrest and Imprison Donald Trump and His Cabinet - Virtually impossible, actually, since the President can pardon his cabinet members and be pardoned by the new Vice President if removed from office. Besides, what agency has the power to arrest a President? See the Constitution again.

7. Elect the Next President by Popular Vote - Again, see number 1. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016. Donald Trump is in the White House.

8. Rise up and Demonstrate against Trump - OK. Good idea, but that will not remove him from office, no matter how many people protest. Remember that Constitution thing. If 3 million people rise up, that's still less than 1% of the population.

9. Have a Revolution, Dammit! - Well, see #8. How many people do you have lined up to fight in this revolution?

10. Have the Military Take Control - WTF? Really? How is that an improvement, aside from it being completely unconstitutional.

11. Get the Supreme Court to Remove the President - The SCOTUS can't do anything like that. They're limited to deciding constitutional questions, and have zero authority over the President in terms of his holding office.

12. Start a Nationwide Petition Campaign to Remove the President - See numbers 1, 8, 9 and 11. Impossible.

So, what CAN we do? That's easy. All we have to do is to make sure that every registered Democrat goes to the polls and votes in 2018 and 2020. Every last freaking one of them. Like the 40% of registered Democrats who didn't vote in the Georgia sixth congressional district, which caused the Democrat, Ossoff, to lose the special election recently. Had they shown up, he'd have won in a landslide, voter suppression or not. That is what we can do, and that's pretty much all we can do.

We, the voters, are the final checks and balances in the United States. But we have to freaking vote! You can help by working your ass off to get voters to the polls right where you are. In your precinct, district, county and state. Do that and we cannot lose. Do not do that and Republicans can win once again.

Thanks for reading this. It's my opinion on this Sunday afternoon.

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Things That Will Not Happen Before 2020 (Original Post) MineralMan Jul 2017 OP
So agree, Wellstone ruled Jul 2017 #1
What will it take to get the 40% out to vote? sagesnow Jul 2017 #2
Perhaps THE most important political question for the next election.. n/t whathehell Jul 2017 #3
As usual, well-written, logical and correct PJMcK Jul 2017 #4
Yup. Winning elections is the only thing that will change anything. DanTex Jul 2017 #5
Things we MUST FIGHT before 2018 and 2020.... CousinIT Jul 2017 #6
I agree...RESIST! BigmanPigman Jul 2017 #17
Actually, the electoral college can be reformed before 2020 Gothmog Jul 2017 #7
Thank you for the reality check! EllieBC Jul 2017 #8
I disagree with Impeachment grantcart Jul 2017 #9
Clinton was Impeached. maxsolomon Jul 2017 #14
His point, which I was responding to, was for both houses to move on Impeachment and Removal grantcart Jul 2017 #30
I agree completely. If we get the House or the Senate...Trump gets nothing. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #10
If Republicans think there will be a political price in 2018 some will move to act. LS_Editor Jul 2017 #11
good idea tiredtoo Jul 2017 #12
You left out something as important: making sure that every Democrat is registered pnwmom Jul 2017 #13
Electing by popular vote does NOT require a constitutional amendment Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #15
It does require all the states to decide this is the way to do it. mwooldri Jul 2017 #26
Just 270 worth. And it would be played by federal rules Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #28
There's the problem: Maine and Nebraska. mwooldri Jul 2017 #36
The popular vote does not fall into that problem Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #38
For sure M&M. BlueJac Jul 2017 #16
Thank you. You keep trying. And I appreciate it. TygrBright Jul 2017 #18
Voting has not been at the core of our republic. Women did not vote until 1920. Senators were CK_John Jul 2017 #33
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there is no election in 2018. mountain grammy Jul 2017 #19
Hopefully, if enough damning info. like Don Jr.'s email/meeting comes out.... MrPurple Jul 2017 #20
... and stop fretting over Trump's almighty 36% "base" William Seger Jul 2017 #21
K&R...Thanks for posting red dog 1 Jul 2017 #22
#10: Military take control. mwooldri Jul 2017 #23
Well that's a totally fucked up assessment of things. Amimnoch Jul 2017 #24
When Democrats vote (for Democrats), Democrats win mcar Jul 2017 #25
Paper Ballots Podkayne K Jul 2017 #27
So just getting out the vote will GreenPartyVoter Jul 2017 #29
Gerrymandering bearsfootball516 Jul 2017 #31
Here's hoping we can pull it off! GreenPartyVoter Jul 2017 #32
2022 will be the new House seats, some states will lose a seat CK_John Jul 2017 #34
Also, SCOTUS will be taking up that huge gerrymandering Hortensis Jul 2017 #39
Drumpf will have shit the bed by 2020. His lifestyle and temper will kill him. rzemanfl Jul 2017 #35
Based on the election of 2016 Golden Raisin Jul 2017 #37
Great. Suggest changing "Democrats" to liberals, tho. Hortensis Jul 2017 #40
If Democrats take back the house in 2018 Trump better be impeached standingtall Jul 2017 #41
Very, very depressing. lostnfound Jul 2017 #42
Actually, it should be energizing. MineralMan Jul 2017 #43
 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
1. So agree,
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:20 PM
Jul 2017

people have to get involved and that is the bottom line. People have to shut off Fox News and read the real papers.

sagesnow

(2,823 posts)
2. What will it take to get the 40% out to vote?
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:27 PM
Jul 2017

I can't imagine anyone staying at home during the Ossof campaign. How do we find out why these people didn't vote? Were they on the fence? Turned off by negative political advertising? How does one motivate these people? Our democracy lies in their hands.

BTW, I agree with your post 100%.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
5. Yup. Winning elections is the only thing that will change anything.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:04 PM
Jul 2017

And, like you said, it means winning them under the current rules (e.g. electoral college), not under what would be the ideal rules.

CousinIT

(9,151 posts)
6. Things we MUST FIGHT before 2018 and 2020....
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:04 PM
Jul 2017

..repeal of Obamacare and/or replacement with DEATHCARE. HAVE YOU CALLED YOUR GOP SENATORS TODAY? Have you gone to a town hall or visited their offices?

CUTTING/GUTTING of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid - See above - HAVE YOU CALLED YOUR GOP SENATORS TODAY? Have you gone to a town hall or visited their offices?

FIGHTING THE GOP'S goddamned budget that GUTS ALL OF THE US GOV'T except the DoD/Pentagon and gives HUGE tax cuts to the wealthy.

BigmanPigman

(51,432 posts)
17. I agree...RESIST!
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:27 PM
Jul 2017

It has limitations of course, but as long as we are out there and do not give up we can make a difference. We will call, attend town halls, practice civil disobedience and pressure federal rebub reps and state legislatures.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
7. Actually, the electoral college can be reformed before 2020
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:39 PM
Jul 2017

All it takes is several more states to turn blue and to adopt the National Popular Vote interstate compact https://ballotpedia.org/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

EllieBC

(2,961 posts)
8. Thank you for the reality check!
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:02 PM
Jul 2017

We all have our wish list but it's important to remember it's just that. Wishes.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
9. I disagree with Impeachment
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:02 PM
Jul 2017

Impeachments cannot be a partisan event, and that is why Pelosi said it was "off the table".

Impeachments can only really take place as a consensus moment with a substantial number of the President's own party agreeing, and this is really the way it should be or we would expect the Republicans to use it as a partisan action when they have a legislative majority.

The possibility that a substantial number (not necessarily a majority) of Republican legislators will call for Impeachment wasn't great but substantially increased this week.

The dots are now so close together that it is hard to see the white between them. There are three factors that will determine whether or not Trump will lose the unanimous backing he has today:

1) Mueller's investigation. If he finds a smoking howitzer that shows a direct link between actions by Trump and the possibility to profit from the Russian subterfuge he won't last until dawn. The fact that we now have a clear progression that goes to Kushner trying to do an end around the IC with a secret Russian based back channel is extremely damaging. These people were very careless with their phone calls. Those calls are likely still in the cloud waiting for a FISA warrant.

2) The Republican donor class. It is a mistake, IMHO, to center on what Republican Congressmen and Senators are saying. The real power is with the donor class and when they determine that Trump is too heavily damaged and cannot advance their interests they will push the button and the elected Republican politicians will move en masse.

3) Loss of the House of Representatives. If they lose the house the Senate will follow in 2020. Yes it is true that 2018 is difficult for the Democrats but if we hold 2020 requires the Republicans to defend 22 seats against 11 very safe Democratic seats. Senate Republicans will be happy, especially if either 1 or 2 above happens to declare they had no idea gambling was going on in the casino and move to put Pence in.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2020

By the way 2022 looks even worse for the Republicans, again defending 22 seats but 2 have already announced they are retiring (Johnson/Wisc and Burr/North Carolina)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2022

maxsolomon

(32,990 posts)
14. Clinton was Impeached.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:12 PM
Jul 2017

No one in his party agreed with it. It was entirely partisan.

He was not convicted. Conviction takes Bipartisanship.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
10. I agree completely. If we get the House or the Senate...Trump gets nothing.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:04 PM
Jul 2017

All executive orders can be rescinded in time. K&R.

LS_Editor

(893 posts)
11. If Republicans think there will be a political price in 2018 some will move to act.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:06 PM
Jul 2017

Their own self-preservation must be at stake. Until then, they will be accessories to, at the very least, obstruction of justice.

tiredtoo

(2,949 posts)
12. good idea
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:08 PM
Jul 2017

"So, what CAN we do? That's easy. All we have to do is to make sure that every registered Democrat goes to the polls and votes in 2018 and 2020. Every last freaking one of them. Like the 40% of registered Democrats who didn't vote in the Georgia sixth congressional district, which caused the Democrat, Ossoff, to lose the special election recently. Had they shown up, he'd have won in a landslide, voter suppression or not. That is what we can do, and that's pretty much all we can do. "

Now how do you propose to accomplish that lofty goal?
And why do you suppose 40% of registered Democrats in Georgia's 6th failed to show up?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
13. You left out something as important: making sure that every Democrat is registered
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:08 PM
Jul 2017

and helping them to re-register, if necessary.

Too many voters lost the right to vote because of new voter ID laws. We should be helping them get the necessary ID and get re-registered.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
15. Electing by popular vote does NOT require a constitutional amendment
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:12 PM
Jul 2017

It requires 270 electoral votes worth of states to allocate their votes to the popular vote winner. We are at 170. Yes if we get to 270, it can change if the states revoke it -which in many cases means a constitutional amendment of their own.

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
26. It does require all the states to decide this is the way to do it.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:13 PM
Jul 2017

To be honest, I think it would be cleaner if the federal elections were played by federal rules. States can choose their own ways for their states... But US federal elections should be on a level playing field.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
28. Just 270 worth. And it would be played by federal rules
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:16 PM
Jul 2017

As states are federally allowed to allocate their electoral votes however they like (i.e. Maine and Nebraska no doing winner take all)

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
36. There's the problem: Maine and Nebraska.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 08:18 PM
Jul 2017

Imagine if New York and California went propoprtional on their Electoral College vote, but no other states joined in.

How many more EV would #45 have racked up?

Either we need all states allocating their Electoral Votes in a proportional manner and in the same manner (not some based on first-past-the-post in a congressional district and some all based on state-wide vote) or we stick with the same winner-takes-all, first-past-the-post system we have now. It's OK with Maine and Nebraska as they're small states. The moment you do this with the big states and not happen in all states, you will get protests.

TygrBright

(20,733 posts)
18. Thank you. You keep trying. And I appreciate it.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:34 PM
Jul 2017

No matter how much my reptile cortex wants to DO SOMETHING!!! DRASTIC!!! NOW!!!

The rest of my brain deeply appreciates that I live in a Constitutional Republic with a bedrock structure for maintaining the basic functions of Constitutional government and a rule of law. And no matter how many corrupt sleazy cheating skidmarks try to circumvent, buy, and corrupt their way around it, that Constitution remains.

No, it doesn't protect us from assholes.

It was never meant to, really. Assholes have always been a fact of life and they tend to gravitate toward power. As long as checks and balances remain on that power, the damage they can do is real, but limited, temporary, and reparable (albeit at great cost, sometimes.)

The one fundamental check that our Constitution provides that WE, the CITIZENS, can implement directly, is our VOTE.

Everything else is indirect, subject to the structure laid out in the Constitution. No, we can't "fix" anything directly, by any means except VOTING.

So yes, while the sleazy corrupt oligarchic grifters are working hard to take our VOTE away from as many of us as they can, they will only succeed to the extent that we continue to enable them, by NOT VOTING.

Thank you for the ongoing reminders of this.

I appreciate them more than you know.

It does sometimes feel like shouting down a well, I know.

But know that you're heard, listened to, and appreciated.

gratefully,
Bright

CK_John

(10,005 posts)
33. Voting has not been at the core of our republic. Women did not vote until 1920. Senators were
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:48 PM
Jul 2017

voted in by state governments. Slaves were not able to vote.
Only those citizens who owned property could vote.

So voting has been a long hard slug to get where we are today.

IMO, I think we need to make voting mandatory, even if it is "none of the above".

mountain grammy

(26,571 posts)
19. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there is no election in 2018.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:50 PM
Jul 2017

I'll assume there will be and do what I can to get Democrats elected, but nothing would surprise me.

MrPurple

(985 posts)
20. Hopefully, if enough damning info. like Don Jr.'s email/meeting comes out....
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:55 PM
Jul 2017

and if Mueller's investigation is allowed to complete and very damaging conclusions are made public, impeachment could be possible.

I agree with you on all the other items you listed and I agree that it is unlikely that enough Republicans would vote for impeachment, but I don't think it's impossible. If enough damaging information is made public and if Trump falls low enough in the polls that he comes to be seen as an albatross for the party, it's conceivable that some of them could opt to dump him.

It would take 28 Republican members of Congress (out of 240) to vote for impeachment along with all of the 194 Democrats. Then, 18 Republican Senators (out of 52) would need to vote to convict. I agree that this is unlikely, but if the revelations were bad enough, I don't think it's impossible.

Of course, all we can do is organize and vote, but Trump's a ticking time bomb and I'm not giving up the hope that he can be excised.

William Seger

(10,742 posts)
21. ... and stop fretting over Trump's almighty 36% "base"
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:59 PM
Jul 2017

We're not going to deprogram the cultists or reform the bigots or convince the reactionaries that society is not sliding over a cliff, but we don't need to: We just need to outnumber them at the polls.

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
23. #10: Military take control.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:10 PM
Jul 2017

If that happens, the Constitution becomes irrelevant.

But realistically the best thing is to take over the House of Representatives in the 2018 midterms, take a majority in the Senate in 2018/2020... and then the Presidency in 2020.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
24. Well that's a totally fucked up assessment of things.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:10 PM
Jul 2017

But, alas, 100% accurate.

Sometimes reality sucks.. and this is definitely one of those cases.

Excellent break down and use of critical thinking though.

Turn out the vote in 2018. Change everything in 2020.

Podkayne K

(145 posts)
27. Paper Ballots
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:13 PM
Jul 2017

The Constitution might provide a solution for that:

Article 1, Section 4, Clause 1. The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators. 1.

I am not a constitutional lawyer or anywhere near a scholar. But it seems that an argument could be made that one of the manners of holding an Election for Federal offices--including President since our founders believed that the Electoral College would take care of the top spot--and altering such regulations would be the regulating the type of ballots used and the method of counting them.

Of course making any kind of change would mean taking back congress in '18--assuming we actually have an election and our Russian "poll watchers" allow us to vote


GreenPartyVoter

(72,377 posts)
29. So just getting out the vote will
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:16 PM
Jul 2017

make up for suppression and gerrymandering?

Not saying it isn't worth trying, but I feel doubtful that we can still win that way. The Rs have had a long time to refine their tactics. : (

bearsfootball516

(6,369 posts)
31. Gerrymandering
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:22 PM
Jul 2017

That's why it's so crucial that Democrats take back the House and win some Governor's Mansions by the end of 2020. That's when the next census is, and most districts will likely be redrawn.

CK_John

(10,005 posts)
34. 2022 will be the new House seats, some states will lose a seat
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 06:58 PM
Jul 2017

and be picked up by other states, depending on population movements.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
39. Also, SCOTUS will be taking up that huge gerrymandering
Mon Jul 17, 2017, 04:15 AM
Jul 2017

case this fall, the Wisconsin one. It could, of course, be a major game changer. But the partisan 5-4 decision to stay the lower court's decision until then, that Wisconsin's districting violated the First Amendment and equal rights protections, required me to breathe deep, exhale....

rzemanfl

(29,540 posts)
35. Drumpf will have shit the bed by 2020. His lifestyle and temper will kill him.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 07:02 PM
Jul 2017

This much is certain, something will happen this incompetent administration will have no clue how to handle. By way of example, a major hurricane with no one in charge of FEMA. Drumpf won't care, Pence will say it is God's will. When the chaos gets bad enough there will be an opening for a man on a white horse and your #10. Military takeovers don't end well.

We are in uncharted waters with a crazy man as captain. We have a government with zero credibility and not much competence. What competence remains decreases daily.

The only hope is to take back both houses of Congress in 2018. If we last that long as a functioning nation.

Golden Raisin

(4,600 posts)
37. Based on the election of 2016
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 08:28 PM
Jul 2017

with its concomitant institutionalized gerrymandering, Russian interference, domestic electronic/cyber manipulation of machines and voter records, etc., etc., I have zero confidence that the elections of 2018 or 2020 will not also be tampered with, manipulated and rigged. In fact, if thin-skinned Trump decides to start a war with N. Korea, Iran, or fill-in-the-blank-country, I could see an attempt at elections being suspended.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
40. Great. Suggest changing "Democrats" to liberals, tho.
Mon Jul 17, 2017, 04:22 AM
Jul 2017

After all, a number of Democrats are still conservatives who haven't moved to the Republican Party and who almost never vote for our candidate for president.

We need nonvoting liberal Americans to vote, especially including young people, and hopefully the Republicans are delivering something of a kick in the butt to many.

Reminds me of affordable education. That should be happening now. We still will do it, but for many college deferred will never happen.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
41. If Democrats take back the house in 2018 Trump better be impeached
Mon Jul 17, 2017, 04:54 AM
Jul 2017

I don't care how unlikely it is to get 67 votes in the Senate. The house should impeach him and force Senate republicans to either do the right thing or be on record defending the first President in history to have conspired with a foreign government to get elected. With all the evidence we have now just imagine how much we will have by 2018. There will be no justification to not impeach Trump if we take back the house.

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
42. Very, very depressing.
Mon Jul 17, 2017, 12:52 PM
Jul 2017

I didn't think that more than one or two of these might be possible, but the overall effect of this thread is just depressing.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
43. Actually, it should be energizing.
Mon Jul 17, 2017, 01:28 PM
Jul 2017

We can do what is needed to correct everything, as long as we're willing to do the work required.

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