I love my relatives...really I do, but when they try to argue with me politically...

[Versailles]

it's smack down time.

I shared a picture of RMoney on Facebook that made a statement "Doesn't want to become more like Europe. Holds several European bank accounts." and added my 2 cents with the comment "Just something to think about between now and November...and something to remember when you step into the voting booth."

What follows is the conversation between my cousin's husband (son-in-law of the Uncle who defriended me because he couldn't stand being made to look like a moron when he opened his mouth on my wall) and myself.

*My Cousin-in-Law*
****, let me just say that I actually don't like Romney, I think both November candidates are unfortunately very weak.. However, let's make one thing clear - Switzerland is not part of EU. Romney doesn't want US to become more like EU (the socialist monstrosity that is falling apart). I see no conflict in these two facts.


*My Mother*
Actually most of Romney's "off shore" accounts are apparently in the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.


*My Cousin-in-Law*
There you go - let the man criticize Europe


*Me*
1. Regardless of whether or not Switzerland is part the EU or not, it is in Europe and when he casts blanket statements about Europe, that does include Switzerland, hence pointing out his hypocrisy. If he is specifically talking about certain supposed "socialist monstrosit[ies]" then he needs to be clear.
2. Frankly, point 1 is nitpicking and subject to interpretation. What isn't up for interpretation is that his money, whether it be all or large chunks, is NOT in US banks. This is a problem for me when I hear people talk about how the poor down trodden rich people can't be taxed because they are the job creators. Simple fact is, Romney has his money parked in non-US banks for the sole purpose of not paying taxes on it ultimately providing less money for our own economic growth. He, and tax evaders like him, are in part to blame for the economic woes of our nation. So when he criticizes political enemies for hating America and trying to destroy the country, it frankly smacks of hypocrisy. Not that hypocrisy and flip-flopping should be a surprise coming from him. Wasn't it as recent as 2004 that Republicans convinced the country that John Kerry was this elitist, rich, flip-flopping Massachusettsian and this not fit to run the country?
3. <.snarky sarcasm> Yes, by all means let's criticize Europe, many countries of which are close and important allies, after all, blanket criticism has never hurt us before, right? I mean we showed those dirty rotten middle eastern muslims who's boss didn't we? I'm sorry what was that you said Senator McCarthy? Oh, you're so right, our blanket criticism of that evil specter of communism lead to such happy stress free times that can be looked back upon with fond memories.
<./snarky sarcasm>


*My Cousin-in-Law*
****, there is a Huge difference between the political and financial system in Switzerland and EU, it is an important distinction. I don't know what Romney said about Europe, but my guess is he referred to the EU. See, I can't stand the EU and what they are doing to Europe. Most people with conservative views share this opinion, so I imagine that's what he referred to.


*My Cousin-in-Law*
I hit enter prematurely.. Anyways, I don't feel like defending Romney, I don't really like the guy. But as far as keeping money out of the US to pay less taxes. I personally look at it as a rational decision to save your own money. People do it all over the world - it is legal. The state should provide a system, in which it is not beneficial.

I wish you were less binary sometimes, ****. Both parties have their flaws, I disagree with republicans on a number of issues (although not related to economy). You don't think Obama is hypocritical? He did not keep many promises, have you noticed that? You don't think democratic party is hypocritical? You think only republicans keep their money outside of US? That all democrats want to save the world and all republicans are greedy and evil? Is it that simple to you? They're all the same to me - with one distinction. D's like big gov and want to make a lot of decisions for the people. R's prefer smaller gov and assume people can make decisions themselves. It's a philosophical difference on the surface, at the bottom they're all politicians, full of lies, full of hypocrisy and greed.

It's not worth arguing over this stuff. There are more important things in life - like enjoying vacation with the family in couple weeks Cheers


*Me*
Absolutely there are hypocrisies that exist within the Democratic party and I absolutely despise that fact, however, despite your perception of me being "binary", I'm far from it. I make my political decisions based on long and deep analysis of the issues and choose the one that most aligns with my philosophies. When I was out in Arizona, I voted for McCain for senator, because at that point he hadn't given into the "screw you, I've got mine" mentality that I see being the face of the republican party - he was willing to compromise and work with both sides to benefit his constituents not his own personal beliefs. It would be a whole lot harder for me to say that I would vote for the Democrat if Republicans like Eisenhower still were in charge of the party, but instead the party is being lead in the hard far right line where women, GLBT people, the poor, etc are being demonized. I'm sorry, but that is not what I want the country to be like. Am I happy with Obama, not really, there are a number of things I wish he had been stronger on (pushing a public option or single payer health care for one big one). But I'm sure as hell not going to vote for a guy who lies for political expediency, mistreats animals, abuses classmates because of their perceived sexual orientation, doesn't even understand what it is like to try to struggle to make it from week to week because the economy has been terrible, wants to restrict the basic rights of women, and wants to treat people like they are second class citizens because of their sexual orientation. Sorry, but I have too much respect for my fellow human beings to put someone who would be a rubber stamp to the likes of Rush, Beck, Palin, Canter, Boehner, and the other far right fascists that are the "leaders" of the Republican party. What you call big government, I call helping your fellow human beings. I'd love to be able to vote my conscience and vote for a green party candidate or a socialist party candidate if they more met my philosophies, but doing so puts to much risk of allowing someone whom I disagree with on nearly everything that much closer to the white house. So will I continue to point out the flaws in the candidate I don't want to win? Absolutely. Will I give ammunition to those who want to see the only viable competition to Romney lose? Nope. So you and anyone else can think that I'm this partisan, uninformed, party line voter, which would frankly make me no better than the sheep who only watch Fox Propaganda, I mean "News", but know that I am far from being a party-line voter...I'm exactly what the Democratic party thrives on and the Republican Party fears - an informed rational voter.

Perhaps I was a little rough, but I'm so sick of the little comments that pop up and being marginalized. I live in South Carolina so my belief system is shot down daily and I have to keep my mouth shut to keep my job, so when people post little shots consistently on my wall, I'm going to call them out on it.

Sigh, in retrospect, after proofing reading through this, I probably should have just kept my mouth shut and let him go on his merry way...

[pa28]

1. I've been converted to the church of "you can't fix stupid".

Try it. You'll find a really really rich sense of tranquility overnight.

Your relative is parroting the myth of EU as some kind of socialist conspiracy. The same EU that represents consolidation of economies while reinforcing the power of central banking and established financial interests.

The same EU instructing governments to sell off public assets for pennies on the dollar and to cut social safety nets rather than tax rich people.

Instead of trying to argue with your relative I'd suggest smiling alot and keeping her well away from sharp knives.

[Versailles]

2. I've tried pointing those same ideas about the EU out to him

But I'm at a disadvantage and he calls me on it every time I bring up anything about Europe...he's from Poland, so he likes to portray himself as an expert of all things Europe and how horrible anything remotely resembling social spending is like the horrific communism he grew up under. You're right, I shouldn't try to fix stupid...guess the teacher in me hasn't been completely purged.

[MattBaggins]

3. Your cousin smacks of someone who has never been to Europe

yet fancies himself an expert.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Smack away! You did good.

Don't keep your mouth shut. Let 'em have it.

[cilla4progress]

5. I went through something like this today on FB -

also with a cousin-in-law! I had posted something in support of ACA. Then she posted in support of Congress' fake repeal of ACA today. Then she posted from a funny website called something like potty mouth mother (that is actually really funny) that said "Shut the fuck up." Should I take it personally?

I composed some responses in my head. Finally I just posted a picture of her grandpa (my husband's grandpa...she's my husband's first cousin) who died some years back. Great photo; he's sitting in a tree - took the same photo, same tree, like 50 years apart. I captioned it, "Miss this guy."

Just thought I would try to find common ground, rather than feed the flames.

[pacalo]

6. There's no use in talking to them about it; we're too divided as a country.

As human beings, we're wired differently than they are in the part of the brain that doles out common sense & moral values. They got shortchanged, bless their little ol' hearts.

We understand that:

-- helping the less fortunate & most vulnerable is the right thing to do;

-- investing in American jobs makes our economy strong;

-- the love of money (over the good of our country & communities) is the root of all evil; and

-- diversity is to be recognized & embraced.

The NRA makes its big money by keeping the gun lovers riled up, obsessed, & buying more guns. The Republicans' corporate constituency owns the media & the Republicans are feeding into this propaganda, imo, as a favor to the NRA for its campaign contributions. Society can go to hell in a handbasket as long as they're profiting from those who are too easily misled.