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Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:37 AM

 

Is there an effort to take over the Democratic Party by someone outside of our Party?

I think this is a valid question so that we know what is going on with our party. If not, fine. If so, we can be honest about the take over attempt so that we can have legitimate and pragmatic strategic planning on how we want to address a takeover of our party so the Democratic Party is not weak in 2018. I think we have to be ahead of the eight ball on this. I would prefer not to be caught with my pants down.

I do not believe this is frivolous or conspiracy question. If so, let me know. Fine.

I have been hearing the last week from different sources that Sanders is the voice of the Democratic Party. Those are strong statements. If people and Sanders truly feel he is the voice of the Democratic Party, as a Democrat and life time member of the Democratic Party, I need to know.

That is all. A simple question. Is Sanders trying to take over the Democratic Party? Is he the voice for the Democratic Party?

128 replies, 7228 views

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Reply Is there an effort to take over the Democratic Party by someone outside of our Party? (Original post)
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 OP
HopeAgain Jul 2017 #1
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #4
HopeAgain Jul 2017 #10
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #19
musette_sf Jul 2017 #114
Samantha Jul 2017 #65
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #71
Samantha Jul 2017 #93
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #94
WhiteTara Jul 2017 #2
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #7
WhiteTara Jul 2017 #25
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #33
Towlie Jul 2017 #49
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #61
WhiteTara Jul 2017 #123
Me. Jul 2017 #82
PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #27
WhiteTara Jul 2017 #35
saidsimplesimon Jul 2017 #109
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #113
WhiteTara Jul 2017 #124
Ron Green Jul 2017 #3
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #9
Ron Green Jul 2017 #106
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #107
beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #5
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #11
beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #13
Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2017 #6
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #12
Gothmog Jul 2017 #8
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #16
Gothmog Jul 2017 #24
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #37
Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #125
leftstreet Jul 2017 #14
beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #15
leftstreet Jul 2017 #17
beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #20
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #18
leftstreet Jul 2017 #22
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #23
brush Jul 2017 #39
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #42
Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #127
brush Jul 2017 #128
Petrushka Jul 2017 #85
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #88
Petrushka Jul 2017 #117
Me. Jul 2017 #21
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #29
Me. Jul 2017 #46
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #48
klook Jul 2017 #26
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #31
KTM Jul 2017 #76
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #80
KTM Jul 2017 #95
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #98
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #28
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #38
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #40
defacto7 Jul 2017 #52
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #56
defacto7 Jul 2017 #67
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #72
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #77
m-lekktor Jul 2017 #55
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #59
ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #62
global1 Jul 2017 #30
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #44
lunasun Jul 2017 #50
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #60
ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #32
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #43
ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #51
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #64
Cary Jul 2017 #34
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #45
Cary Jul 2017 #102
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #108
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #36
WinstonSmith00 Jul 2017 #41
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #47
defacto7 Jul 2017 #57
Yates Amatitio Jul 2017 #53
delisen Jul 2017 #92
H2O Man Jul 2017 #54
MuseRider Jul 2017 #87
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #96
MuseRider Jul 2017 #118
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #119
m-lekktor Jul 2017 #58
ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #68
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #73
KTM Jul 2017 #79
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #81
ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #84
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #90
LisaM Jul 2017 #63
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #66
LisaM Jul 2017 #70
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #74
LisaM Jul 2017 #86
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #91
Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #69
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #75
GulfCoast66 Jul 2017 #78
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #83
LanternWaste Jul 2017 #89
David__77 Jul 2017 #97
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #99
loyalsister Jul 2017 #100
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #101
loyalsister Jul 2017 #103
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #110
loyalsister Jul 2017 #120
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #121
Ken Burch Jul 2017 #104
seaglass Jul 2017 #111
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #112
Ken Burch Jul 2017 #122
lunamagica Jul 2017 #126
saidsimplesimon Jul 2017 #105
brooklynite Jul 2017 #115
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #116

Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:39 AM

1. So, I'm letting you know... nt

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:41 AM

4. Are you going to share what you are letting me know? I am not much into guessing.

 

I prefer to deal with listening, processing, and then going from there to find solutions.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:43 AM

10. You said:

"I do not believe this is frivolous or conspiracy question. If so, let me know. Fine."

I'm letting you know.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:50 AM

19. O.K. Thank-you. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:14 PM

114. Don't worry, it's NOT

regardless of what "some say".....

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:48 PM

65. Sanders was asked by Schumer to take a leadership position in the Democratic party

Schumer thought he (Sanders) could bring back a lot of Democrats who had left, and he also thought incorporating Sanders' message would help heal the two divides. I hear what he says as constructive criticism but many people here just hear it as criticism.

The divide already existed in the party between the New Dems (Third Wayers) and liberals before Sanders took the position. We see that now becoming more apparent inasmuch as the publicity concerning "Democrats see the Blue Dogs as the key to winning the House." For example, they think budging on abortion might be a good thing for some red state seats. I do not agree this compromise should be made.

So I do not think he is trying to take over the party; I do think he is trying to change minds on some of the important issues. And I also think some Dems are staying in the party as opposed to leaving because Sanders is working with it. JMHO

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #65)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:52 PM

71. Sanders himself, recently promoted what you accuse the Democratic Party of doing with blue dogs.

 

"For example, they think budging on abortion might be a good thing for some red state seats. I do not agree this compromise should be made. "

I do not understand this point.

And thank-you for your post.

I am having a tough time with defining Democrats with 3rd way, corporatists, neo. I have not had well defined description of who these Democrats are and where they stand.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #71)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:27 PM

93. To tell you the truth, I don't understand why politicians are dictating women's health care

restrictions. They are, after all, politicians, not doctors. Some of these restrictions are literally deadly. I think all of these decisions properly belong to the woman and her husband (or significant other) and the doctor. That is it.

It might surprise you to learn when I arrived at this decision. As a child, I lived in a red state (Tennessee). My mother had heart problems and became pregnant with twins. The doctor told her carrying the pregnancy to term could easily kill her by putting too much strain on her already weakened heart. She told the doctor she could never abort her child, she would take the risk. Months later she delivered my twin brothers and made it through the pregnancy and childbirth. She did pass away two years later from her damaged heart problems.

I learned all this when I was 19 (as opposed to 6 when it occurred) from my aunt. The fact that a physician in the state of Tennessee in 1952 advised a woman to terminate a pregnancy was mind-boggling to me. But suddenly I realized this is exactly why these decisions belong to the woman, because the consequences can be so extreme. And politics has zero to do with it.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #93)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:31 PM

94. Thank-you for sharing this story. Another poster discussed her experience

 

and the affect to her health, personally. These stories matter.

I agree with you of course.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:39 AM

2. I'm looking at Kamala Harris

she is a true Democrat and a very smart woman.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:42 AM

7. For 2020? I am not really looking at 2020. I do like Harris. Eom.

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:56 AM

25. Well, I don't know about you, but I'm

tired of being run by old white men. Bernie may think he is the Party, but I'm not on his bandwagon.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:01 PM

33. Thanks for your opinions. That is all I am looking for. I just want to hear how people feel, what

 

they see.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:25 PM

49. Because he's an old white man? Is that all that matters to you?

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Response to Towlie (Reply #49)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:41 PM

61. With attacks on women/girls and blacks, their lives depend on it being a big deal, or matter. Eom

 

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Response to Towlie (Reply #49)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 05:46 PM

123. It's not all. But I must say

that by changing things around, we'll have different outcomes. If we continue on the same path, we'll have the same results.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:05 PM

82. Well Said

The definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over.....

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:57 AM

27. Look to get her name right - it's Kamala. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:03 PM

35. I saw that typo and corrected it.

Thanks for your concern.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:05 PM

109. Tara

I look more "tan" Asian than white or of color.

In my opinion it is best to go "color blind" in any election process.

Ms. Harris has a record of accomplisments to stand on.

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Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #109)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:09 PM

113. I think BLM would disagree with you. I have heard them argue this point. I listen.

 

I also know women's org feel the same way, about all being "gender-blind". I imagine most all oppressed groups would disagree with you. But, I will let them explain it. I will support them though, when they do explain it.

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Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #109)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 05:48 PM

124. I didn't discuss her ethnicity. Perhaps

you were replying to a different post?

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:39 AM

3. His is a voice I wish more national Dems would speak with. n/t

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Response to Ron Green (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:43 AM

9. That is cool, but I am really asking a simple question. I do not agree with you on more of his

 

voice. I think he creates problems and I think most of our Democratic Party has better ideas.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:53 PM

106. What are these "better ideas?" How will they move this

country, and the world, toward a better, more survivable future?

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Response to Ron Green (Reply #106)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:02 PM

107. Some of you are asking such huge questions Democrats should already know. A few,

 

because I really have no interest in putting out what we already know.

Climate Change. The Democratic Party address, and are looking for solutions. That is a pretty big one for our young.

Health care

Civil rights

Strong fiscal foundation allowing jobs to increase, wage to increase and a healthy economy.

Pell grants

Our National forests.

Really, these are all our progressive goals that we continuing moving forward and so much more. I do not get why on a Democratic board, a list is needed.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:41 AM

5. I'm concerned that you're concerned. It's all very concerning.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:44 AM

11. Is it a secret? Because it seems to me like it is the conversation. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:46 AM

13. IT'S YUUUUGE CONSPIRACY!!1! HE'S PLOTTING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:41 AM

6. Sanders is being treated as the "voice of the Democratic Party"

Dunno why he doesn't actually officially join us? I think that he probably feels like he gets more "street cred" as an Independent and it allows him to blast both parties?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:45 AM

12. I would like to know if that treatment is creating a situation where he and his supporters

 

actually think they are the voice for the Democratic Party. I think that is important to know. Thank-you.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:43 AM

8. There are many who will oppose any attempt to remake the party into the image of Sanders

There are attempts being made but there is also many who disagree with these efforts

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:48 AM

16. I would suggest there is a strong majority of the base that will oppose.

 

I want to clearly hear if this is what Sanders and his supporters goal is. If they have decided this is a goal. Then we as a party can address it now, before this weakens us for 2018. From what I have been hearing this last couple weeks, I think Sanders and his supporters have stated this ass their intent.

My questions is, am I right? Or am I wrong? I do not know. I am asking.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:56 AM

24. I think that the attempt is being made to take over the party

I agree with you that they are trying

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:03 PM

37. Thank-you for your thought on this. I feel it is important to be honest with what is happening.

 

I am good with anything, as long as I am addressing reality. Not a fabrication or illusion> I do not do well with that. A waste of my time.

I appreciate your opinion.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 05:57 PM

125. So just theoretically, if the party moves to the left, as Sanders and others are urging it to do,

what will you do?

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:46 AM

14. "I've been hearing"..."different sources"...

Wow, you must have inside intel!

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:47 AM

15. Shhhhh.

It's a seeeeecret.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:49 AM

17. Probably was Person 9 at the Trump Tower meeting

This kind of insider information could be valuable

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:52 AM

20. It's ALL over DU and just like EVERYWHERE apparently.

But it's encrypted so you need the right sunglasses to see it.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:50 AM

18. It is all over Du. I have been having conversation with people stating

 

Sanders is the voice of the Democratic Party. It is in media and msm. It is being discussed in written media.

So I am asking. Isn't that what we are suppose to do in order to educate ourselves and be informed?

It is a question. I do not know. I am asking a question.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:52 AM

22. When is this takeover scheduled to happen?

You do realize that Sanders ran as a Democrat in the primary?

That's probably why people are talking about whether or not the party will embrace his 'platform' moving forward

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:55 AM

23. I asked a question and I think a legitimate question.

 

Thank-you for your opinion and how you see it.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:07 PM

39. Been there, done that in 2016. Many of Sanders' ideas were put into the platform

He ran. He took his shot, a divisive one, but as far as him running again, that window has closed.

Nobody wants all that division and bad blood again as that will just usher in another trump win, maybe Pence.

Plus Sanders will be pushing 80 in 2020. With trump showing signs of dementia, age will be a big issue so it makes no sense to run someone even older than trump.

We have a good crop of much younger, attractive candidates Warren, Harris, Newsom, Castro, Brown, Bacerra, Kennedy.

It's time to move forward, not backwards.

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Response to brush (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:09 PM

42. I agree with all that you are saying in this post. I do not see it either.

 

I am not concerned, but I would like to address this as a member of the party. So, we can move on for 2018, instead of waiting to address it closer to that election causing us problems unnecessarily.

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Response to brush (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 06:12 PM

127. It is less about him personally wanting to run again, I assume, and the

purity agenda he seems to have.

Very dangerous, if you want to get GOP out of power, that is.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #127)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 06:19 PM

128. Either way, we don't need that divsiveness again.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:10 PM

85. If it's in the media & msm, etc., please help educate us by providing a few links.

Thank you.


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Response to Petrushka (Reply #85)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:17 PM

88. If you have not heard conversation that Sanders is the voice for the Democratic Party, then it is on

 

you.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #88)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:18 PM

117. In your reply #18, You said, "It is all over DU."---as well as in the media & msm--but . . .

. . . because I haven't heard such a conversation, it's on me? Of course it is! It's on me that I bothered (in Reply #85) to ask that you provide links. Don't you have any? I'm just asking.








"So I am asking. Isn't that what we are suppose to do in order to educate ourselves and be informed?"---pirateshipdude

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:52 AM

21. I Think Sanders Wants To Determine The Focus Of The Dem Party

But in my opinion, he doesn't walk his talk. If he wants to be a major influence on DEms, he should join the party and work from the inside out. Otherwise, he needs to get his own party. Also, he would have to adjust his message to be more mindful of the concerns of women and minorities. In addition, I'm hearing that he's edging towards centrism which considering his rhetoric would be confusing as to where he actually stands.

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Response to Me. (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:58 AM

29. I am curious if part of the take over would be to redefine our party.

 

It would not be Sanders adjusting his message to be more mindful of the concerns for women and minorities, but for the women and minorities to accept the focus is in a different direction.

Thank-you for the conversation. I am just exploring thought on this because I am concerned or at the least curious what is happening with our party. I would think everyone on a Democratic board would be curious, also. Wanting to be informed, educated and knowledgeable.

If we are trying to make a major change to our party, I want to know.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:19 PM

46. Well First Of All We Need Some Perspective

By that I mean, this is a popular board and there are a number of Sanders supporters here as well as at 'other places'. But how big of an influence are they really and how many Our Revolution people are there? Percentages would be helpful but there really are none. One indicator would be how many more votes HRC received. There was a 'DNC' tour w/3men earlier this summer but there was a lot of push back to the fact that it was designed as an all male tour and that the focus wasn't inclusive. Also, AM Joy has good discussions regarding the voting power of black women who are the most consistent of Dem voters and they are currently holding Perez's feet to the fire. I think once the Dems make an effort to recognise who truly makes up their base, their focus will be determined. After that, outreach to those who have similar goals can be enacted.

There was an article about the extreme left recently where it was said that the Dem party would have to bend the knee to them. A smug and arrogant thing to say. People sometimes overestimate themselves and their influence.

I think the only sure thing one can say is..."we'll see".

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Response to Me. (Reply #46)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:22 PM

48. This is an informative post. You gave me stuff to ponder. Thank-you. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:57 AM

26. Is there an effort to leave a flaming bag of dog poop on DU's doorstep?

"Let's you and them fight!"



Trashing thread.

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Response to klook (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:00 PM

31. I am a Democrat on a Democratic board asking questions about our Democratic Party

 

so I will be informed. I am really not understanding the hostility. I am open to the very real possibility I am wrong. I stated that in my OP.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:58 PM

76. "I am really not understanding the hostility."

 

Because we have seen all your other posts ? You are very active in what many see as Bernie-hate threads, and have not been shy as to your feelings about the Senator and his supporters... why would you be suprised at pushback on this thread ?

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Response to KTM (Reply #76)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:03 PM

80. I do not like Sanders. I am still asking a question that I feel is valid.

 

Discussion about the position of the Democratic party and what is happening with it. To clearly see, we will know how to address it. I think that is a smart thing to do. Be informed. I like being informed. I get informed asking questions. Listening. Processing. Think them thru to find solutions.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #80)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:32 PM

95. I think one of the issues is that you see it as an individual "taking over"

 

You dont like Senator Sanders personally, but this idea that he as an individual is trying to "take over" is silly. He is advocating for the same things he always has, and a lot of people are responding well to it. He is out fighting the same fight he always has, speaking out in favor of UHC, about the 1/99 split, about support for unions and working class voters regardless of the desires of moneyed interests. None of that is new to him, he just gave voice to a sentiment that is shared by a growing portion of Democrats.

HE isnt "taking over" but those that support the ideas he gave voice to ARE trying to influence the party, as they should.

The Democratic Party has *already* been taken over, by those that moved us to the center - and at the time that was neccessary - but we gave them too much free rein and are now percieved by many as having left behind a lot of the folks we used to support. It seems to many of us that now, having witnessed some of the failures of that move to the center and of Republican policies over the last 30 years, that a growing backlash has engendered more support for some Left positions than existed then.

The real disparity is between those who look at the past and say "those ideas will never work" and those who look at the present and say "the populace has come around, now IS the time to push leftward again."

Sanders didnt even want to run. He wanted someone else to be that voice, and when nobody else stepped in he did, because he felt "the fierce urgency of now." I still think he was hoping Warren would join the race and be that alternative voice. I wish she had, I think many saw his run as an old white guy running against a woman and that got everyones defenses up.

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Response to KTM (Reply #95)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:35 PM

98. So, you think it is rubbish. I wanted opinions. Thank-you.

 

There are times people are asking a question because they actually what another's opinion or information, or facts to base their own conclusions.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:58 AM

28. HA Goodman and his crowd are all on board with it.

 

It's not working. Sanders has clout for the first time in his long political career. He is figuring out how to use it. For the most part, he knows his base and plays them well.

I have a dirty little secret for you. The Democratic Party currently has some rock stars and some rising stars. The BoB'ers completely ignore them when selling their false narrative. First clue to note who they are... They reference the party as if Joe Manchin is the standard.

We really should stop helping to promote this rift. It is what the HA Goodman and Stein crowd are attempting to do. They are mentally and morally bankrupt. Most people to this day who are Sanders supporters are also great democrats. Always have been. The Sanders/Clinton thing is a false dichotomy being used by ratfuckers.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:06 PM

38. O.K. Thank-you for a thought out answer. I like the party. I do.

 

I like our Democratic Leaders. I think they are smart, competent and work for us.

I do not think I am kidding myself. Like this Op, I like to look at the whole picture. I too like a lot of our up and coming. I too think we have a lot of talent, smart.... And more to come.

Edit: I do not know Goodman and that issue much. I never bought into him from the start and simply have not stayed up with anything he says.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:09 PM

40. In a two party system covering millions of people....

 

There will always be people on the outside kicking the tires.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #40)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:31 PM

52. I'm a sucker for simple analogy..

and I like this one. And the tires are kicked to make sure they are functioning properly. No taking for granted that they just roll down there without fail.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #52)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:37 PM

56. Keeps everything in check. I have no issue with it.

 

Allowing the tire kicking to continue, often embracing it, is how third parties have been marginalized almost to the point of insignificance.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #56)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:49 PM

67. true...

But in doing so they can make the base more aware, stronger, and motivate political change. We just have to make sure the tire kicking doesn't end up knifing. There is a point at which all drivers and tire kickers have to unite. That's the big problem, when people become too proud to see the end game and make necessary decisions.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #67)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:53 PM

72. I agree with this.

 

"That's the big problem, when people become too proud to see the end game and make necessary decisions."

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #67)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:59 PM

77. We need to unite on election day.

 

That's about it. There should be little unification outside of that in a two party system covering this many people. The span of possible ideologies is simply too great.

I do overall agree with what you have said.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:36 PM

55. the Sanders/Clinton rift as you call it is alive and well it just isn't as evident on here

because one side of the rift pretty much fled DU. Leave DU and go out in the general population and the rift is alive and well and it isn't just the HA Goodman/Stein people promoting it. People who were for Hillary Clinton in the primary are some of the biggest promoters of this rift out there.





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Response to m-lekktor (Reply #55)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:40 PM

59. It is alive. It's also just about insignificant.

 

It's more about individuals and personalities, as highlighted in your post here.

"People who were for Hillary Clinton in the primary are some of the biggest promoters of this rift out there. "

I thought that is who I was telling to stop.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:42 PM

62. That's my take as well

A lot of rising stars, and while I hate the wait--it gives me hope

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 11:58 AM

30. A Couple Of Questions Here....

1. Who is currently the voice of the Democratic Party?

2. What is the Democratic Party's current platform?

3. If we can't agree as to who the current voice of the Dem Party is - isn't it ripe to be taken over by someone who is willing to become its voice?

4. Right now do you believe that the Dem Party is organized enough and speaks as one voice to be strong in 2018?

5. Should the Dem Party run on an anti-Trump platform or should it be an anti-Repug platform?

6. Why doesn't the Dem Party hold a 3-day retreat somewhere and hash out all these issues and come out with one cohesive platform to make us 'strong in 2018'?

7. What constitutes being strong in 2018? And why aren't we coming up with this answer right now instead of waiting for 2018 to creep up on us and take us by surprise again?

This is more than just a simple question as to who is trying to take over the Dem Party. This is a more complicated question as to what the Dem Party stands for; how they are going to mobilize - sooner rather than later. How they are to become a more cohesive voice so that they can begin soon to campaign for 2018.

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Response to global1 (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:17 PM

44. Please join us and help the party to mobilize.

 

https://democrats.org/

You will also be able to learn who some of the party leaders are.

The platform for our party can also be found at that link. I truly didn't know du'ers were not aware of our platform. It was put together during a multiple day "retreat" called a convention.

What's with the one voice? That's not necessary or even wanted. It would make no sense in a two party system covering millions of people.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #44)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:30 PM

50. I have had to post a link to the party platform numerous times in the past few weeks here at Du

Many people here now seem very unaware yet they are posting on a site called Democratic Underground

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Response to lunasun (Reply #50)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:41 PM

60. I found that post to be stunning.

 

Some points more than others.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:01 PM

32. No, Mostly a lot of people flopping around looking for political air

Then you have grassroots organizations such as BLM. They are not Democrats--but they can certainly affect votes. We will need to listen to them and take into consideration their goals. We need to identify reach out to and listen, really listen to diverse communities--some who may have many members who do not vote, can't vote or are told their vote doesn't matter.

In fact, I am far more afraid of the pandering to clearly non-Democrats, who simply want to make a lot of noise, been seen on TV and get nothing of use done.

As far as Bernie Sanders--he is who he is, but the political playing field is now wide open, and I hope to see the diversity of the Democratic Party step up and shine--

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:16 PM

43. I like this post. I like how you see it and solution you have in addressing our issues.

 

This is very doable. I also like your points about BLM. I can see a lot accomplished in the manner you address it. I think we will see actions from Democratic leaders addressing just this. I hear Obama is stepping back in to take an active role. Clinton is starting something up. I heard one other Dem addressing this with a doable plan. This can all connect and make us that much stronger. Thank-you for your post.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #43)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:30 PM

51. Democrats have already started

They way to win is intersectionality at its very best, at its most inclusive. There are a lot of activists groups--many who can't afford to vote third party or even want some sort of political shakeup at this point in history because it's their very lives at state. They will vote Democratic if we do the work. Our platform is a good one. Our Senators--my Senators, Murray and Cantwell, are stepping up, and working hard. There is lots going on in city and town communities. I was in a Trump stronghold on the Olympic Peninsula, in the tiny town of Forks--and saw Trump protesters. I can't begin to describe how happy that made me.

Pulling this together takes all people of good will who want our progressive, humanitarian values to continue to go forward. Right now, with the election of Trump, is like being stuck in a sewer of human waste. There a lot of stink to get through until we reach fresh air.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #51)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:46 PM

64. "intersectionality at its very best, at its most inclusive. "

 

This is huge and the answer, in my opinion and we are that capable, I believe.

I was in Portland the other day, and I loved how BLM signs were everywhere. Businesses, businesses were plastered. In yards. It was wonderful. The best of inclusive.

I see it the way you do. I am excited also.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:02 PM

34. I don't have a problem with Bernie Sanders taking over

I have a problem with people talking that talk, but not walking the walk. If they are going to take over, then do it. If they're not going to do the things they have to do, which are a lot of things, then they need to just shut up.

Talk is cheap.

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Response to Cary (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:17 PM

45. I would have a problem with Sanders taking over. Hence, my question.

 

I just want to know if that is the goal.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #45)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:40 PM

102. Not arguing with you PSDude

FTR I have no confidence that the radical left can tie their own shoes, let alone run a real political party. I don't think there's any chance, but if the radical left could run the party better then by all means they ought to do so.

I think there are good reasons why they're just wannabes.

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Response to Cary (Reply #102)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:04 PM

108. Well, I conclude they cannot run it better, and the vast majority of the Democratic base

 

agrees with me as we see in votes.

I am curious if a created battle is going to hit the party and I would rather take it on now, instead of a mess of 2018 when peoples lives are at risk, with our vote.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:03 PM

36. It's pretty tough to "take over" a party, especially one that's as

disparate and disorganized as the Democratic Party. It's just a huge cat herd.



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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:09 PM

41. Id be more concerned with the corporatist

 

And the DINOs in the party than Sanders.

Any member beholden to banksters, wall street, multinational corporation and lobbyist need to be shunned from the party.

Sanders has a strong message and more Democrats should follow his lead we need leaders offering a new way not the old ways of corruption and exploitation but one of equality and liberty from the bonds of corporate oppression.

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Response to WinstonSmith00 (Reply #41)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:19 PM

47. What is a corporatist?

 

Sanders takes money from corporations also. Who is a politician that does not take any money from corporation, which is really people for those industries contributing, not corporations.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #47)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:38 PM

57. Link please....

Is he taking corporate money now?

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Response to WinstonSmith00 (Reply #41)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:31 PM

53. agreed

 

as a Democratic Party member since 1976 I welcome Sanders as an important voice for the Democratic Party.

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Response to WinstonSmith00 (Reply #41)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:24 PM

92. Can't wait for the day the anti-corporatists turn in their iphones

and empty out Starbucks.

That'l be the day!


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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:31 PM

54. comic genius.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:15 PM

87. Just a simple inquiry.

Starts out as a little trickle then becomes an ocean.

Innocent, lol.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #87)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:33 PM

96. You do not believe in being informed about the dynamics in our Democratic Party that will

 

effect the 2018 election?

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #96)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:31 PM

118. LOL

I do not believe your motive was to be informed about anything but to create discord as if there was not enough already. This is not new and this is not helpful. You can say what you want about me not believing in those things but it does not matter one tiny bit to me. I find it amusing but in a very tiresome, boring, unhelpful and disruptive way but then some people roll that way and roll that way and create more ways to roll that way.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #118)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:33 PM

119. O.K. Thank-you for your opinion. The motive you assign to me is false. But again,

 

your opinion.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:39 PM

58. I wish he would take it over, it would be a much better party

But the money people who fund the party to do their corporate bidding would NEVER let that happen.

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Response to m-lekktor (Reply #58)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:49 PM

68. He doesn't want to

Sanders has been most effective as an independent in liaising between Democrats and Rebublicans, quite successfully at times--he was known for it. He has never expressed a desire to take over the party, only ran as a Democrat because that's how our system is set up. He is not shy about criticizing it. He left it as soon as possible after. Interestingly, he has attracted at least one big Democratic donor, who is interested in his influence and his message. So he has a role to play for sure.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #68)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:54 PM

73. Who is this big donor.

 

Always curious.

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Response to KTM (Reply #79)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:04 PM

81. Good for him. Thank-you for letting me know. Eom.

 

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #84)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:19 PM

90. He certainly is allowed and has the money to back it.

 

But then, I am not one that has an issue with politicians with billionaire donors. I get it takes money.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:43 PM

63. I thnk there are attempts being made to divide it.

We've traditionally been a party that encompasses a wide range of views. I see a lot of attempts that go against that philosophy.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #63)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:48 PM

66. Why would any progressive attempt to divide? No one is serious in winning another single election

 

if the goal is merely to divide. That is lives lost.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #66)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:51 PM

70. I think there is a concerted effort being made to divide and maybe break up

the Democratic party. I also see that it's working. Which is truly unfortunate.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #70)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:56 PM

74. Yikes, that makes no logical, common, or intellectual sense.

 

What would be the purpose? For Republicans to always have control of it all?

That one floors me if it is the case.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #74)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:12 PM

86. You tell me.

The strongest criticism of the Democratic party, it seems to me, is coming from the left. I consider myself a progressive. Do I think that elements more moderate than I should be in the party? Absolutely, especially in red states.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #86)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:20 PM

91. Honestly, I see about the whole party as progressive and certainly myself.

 

I think that one alone is one we need to work on. Thank-you LisaM, I appreciate the conversation, your perspective.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:49 PM

69. He can not be the voice of the Democratic Party as he is not a Democrat...end of story.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #69)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 12:58 PM

75. Lol, you are a micro, focused brain. They have a word for that, but it is not coming to mind.

 

But yes, I get your point. Thank-you. And if you can define what I am thinking, then I can put that to rest, .

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:01 PM

78. It's not like a Board of Directors of a corporation

You can't just do a quick hostile take over because it's a totally Democratic organization. First you have to take over a majority of county executive committees. And through them a majority of the state executive committees. Then you would have to elect Congress people. And finally take over the national Democratic committee. That's not called a take over, that's called democracy.

And it's the reason Bernie's people will never take over the party. In many states are party is made up of women and minorities. Plus Bernie's people don't seem to play well with others.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #78)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:06 PM

83. Tea Party did with the Republican Party. 2008. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:18 PM

89. You will supply specific and objective evidence supporting the validity of the question, yes?

"I think this is a valid question..."

You will then supply specific and objective evidence supporting the validity of the question, yes?

Otherwise, it's not really a valid question, but rather simple speculation lacking any support, regardless of your pants.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:34 PM

97. I would like the Democratic Party to be a broad-based progressive organization.

I think that it should optimally be the home of progressives of various sorts, and of those who will support the political objectives of this progressive coalition.

I would definitely, here in California and locally, support election of Democratic leaders who share a similar viewpoint to my own. There have always been various groups with different viewpoints contending for influence and power.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #97)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:36 PM

99. Thank-you for your thought out post. I appreciate it. Eom.

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:37 PM

100. A lot of people are not club joiners

There are people who didn't join a sorority or fraternity, and have no interest in country clubs. We have membership in name only advocates for financial interests that have been screwing over people who were once a core constituency. But, we've gotta win!!!!! People aren't inclined to join if they don't feel represented. People want Democratic party to be a big tent with open arms to people who will benefit us financially, but have no interest in people who question the values of leadership when they feel left out.

I say worry less about membership and more about commitments to people and principles. If we build something that represents more people, maybe they will vote for us even if they don't become card carrying members.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #100)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:39 PM

101. I am not "worried" about membership. I am concerned about the direction of the party,

 

and what we will present in 2018. My concern are people's lives.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #101)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:41 PM

103. Your OP language suggests that your concern is for the party itself

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #103)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:05 PM

110. You had me go back up to check my OP. Nope. 2018. The concern of people's lives. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #110)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:44 PM

120. "Is there an effort to take over the Democratic party?" implies that the party itself is central

to you worries.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #120)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 03:28 PM

121. I have been, and am a lifetime member of the Democratic Party. I have put my time and effort,

 

my money into the Democratic Party because I think they are far superior to anything else out there and it is aligned with the progressive advancement I hope for our nation.

Does that work for you?

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:43 PM

104. No. There is an effort to make sure the Democrats are the party of the working class.

 

The working class of ALL races.

The only way we can BE that party is to stand, when it really comes down to it, with the working class against the rich.

If we can do that, we can create a long-term coalition for progressive, egalitarian, anti-oppression politics.

It's not about any one person taking over the party. This isn't a party that CAN be taken over.

If Bernie is anything, he is the voice of those left out in the cold by the horrible economic changes that have been imposed from above in this country since 1981. He has his flaws and deserves specific criticism ON those flaws. His economic vision is not flawed, though-and, coupled with the greater public emphasis on fighting social oppression that some of his opponents hold, is a necessary part of Democratic revival.

He's not going to run for president again, and none of this is about his ego.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #104)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:07 PM

111. Why did he refuse to rule out a 2020 run just a few days ago? n/t

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #104)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:07 PM

112. The Democratic Party shines with policies for the working class, way out thinking anyone else

 

addressing the issue. They also actually accomplish the means to the end goal.

Other than that Ken Burch, I cannot converse with you. You are the only one I get a hide with. So, I will leave your posts alone here on out. Thank-you for your opinion.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #112)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 04:48 PM

122. For whatever it's worth, I've never alerted on any of your posts.

 

I don't think you SHOULD be censored. While we disagree, you've said nothing that to my mind deserves censure.

What I'm saying is that the changes we should make as a party are not about Bernie, or Hillary, or any individual.

They are about a small number of common sense realizations and ideas.

All of us here, I think start from the realization that women, LGBTQ people, people of color, immigrants and religious minorities are in danger, that there is a climate of hatred rising all through this country and that we need to stand with them and with each other against all forms of repression and persecution. We are right to center that.

But we ALSO need to acknowledge that a lot of people, of ALL races, genders, orientations, identities, got the shaft in a massive way with the Reagan and Bush economic changes(none of which were necessary to the achievement of any greater good), and that we, as a party, have a special obligation to reach out to and heal the wounds of those who were the victims of those changes.

We can't recreate the exact way things were in the industrial areas of this country, but we, as a party, need to intervene to at least give those who were cast aside, those who were thrown out in the cold, those who were treated as if all they had done in the workplace was of no value, and create something that brings them back in and restores, to as great a degree as possible, what was taken from them.

We will need to be open to intervention in the economy, to support for efforts to humanize the economy from the bottom up, and even to take some aspects of the economic structure out of the short-term-profit-for-the-few-at-all-costs.


And by that I mean restore it in the economic and human dignity sense, and, despite the myths, not in any sense at all what was changed by the end of Jim Crow.

There were two backlashes that happened in this country in the second half of the twentieth century and the early part of this century:

1) A white male backlash, on both the grassroots AND institutional levels, against the social gains made by those not white and male;

2) A corporate backlash against the relatively modest gains made by working people as a result of the rise of the labor movement, in which the wealthy manipulated and deliberately inflamed the first backlash to prevent their victims from uniting against them.



What OUR task is as Democrats is to be the party that fights BOTH backlashes, that rejects the idea that those not white and male should have to defer to those who are, AND also the idea that those not lucky enough to be wealthy should live at the mercy of those who are.

This doesn't mean assuming that both groups of backlash victims suffered equally-it means that there can be alliances between both groups on issues of common interests, and coalition between both groups in which each would mutually support the other groups particular causes.

If we can reshape the party in this way, we can create a long-term alliance of the many against the few.

And if you don't like Bernie, it can be done without him.

We can come together and do it ourselves, from below.


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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #104)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 06:10 PM

126. He IS running Ken. He is already campaigning

Did you see him on the view?

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 01:52 PM

105. The simple answer

No.

Why not start a Progressive Democratic Party? Are you the voice of the Democratic Party? Neither am I, just a cheerleader and opinionated lover of our existing Republic.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:15 PM

115. Answer: no he's not, and yes, it's a frivolous question.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #115)

Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:16 PM

116. Thank-you for your opinion. Eom.

 

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