THINGS THAT DON'T MAKE YOU A HERO...

[flotsam]

I've already seen the first post lauding John McCain for not accepting an offer of early release from the North Vietnamese captors. All US military people are taught the soldiers code-it goes like this:

Articles of Code of Conduct[edit]
The Code of Conduct provides guidance for the behavior and actions of members of the Armed Forces of the United States. This guidance applies not only on the battlefield, but also in the event that the service member is captured and becomes a prisoner of war (POW). The Code is delineated in six articles.

Article I:

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.[3]

Article II:

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.[3]

Article III:

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.[3]

Article IV:

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.[3]

Article V:

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.[3]

Article VI:

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.[3]

Now read article three, it states that accepting early release would be a violation and as such would be a court martial offense.

I do believe the man performed bravely in Vietnam. They called attacking Hanoi "Going Downtown" and no man who did that could ever be called a coward. But there was never an option of accepting an early return to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_United_States_Fighting_Force

[Skittles]

1. enough with the semantics

Senator McCain served his country, he was a prisoner of war and he paid dearly for it.......that is enough for me.

[Adrahil]

10. Agree... NT

[nolabear]

15. Damn skippy. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the need to diminish him

but I hate it. We know who he is and who he isn't and the man is tough, and likely going to die from this. Maybe it's me but I think celebrating suffering and death and going for people when they're down is against everything we say we stand for. Are there people I'd be glad were gone? Yes. But if we're going to go down the road of celebrating death how can we be trusted with power?

[msongs]

2. "...trust in my god..." nt

[unblock]

4. "dedicated to the principles which made my country free..."

... except for that freedom of religion bit....

[unblock]

3. Gotta disagree with your logic here

Your argument is based on the faulty logic that no one doing the ethical thing is a hero.

For example, the code of conduct calls on soldiers to avoid giving out useful information (beyond the minimal identification information required by the Geneva convention) even under pain of torture.

If a soldier does, in fact, endure torture and stay mum, that soldier is a hero in my book, even if to do otherwise would be a violation of the code.

Sometimes doing the ethical thing requires heroism.

[nocalflea]

5. John McCain not only withstood torture, he spoke out against it. Repeatedly. He spoke out against his party and president. That's heroic.

He is a true American hero. I take no glee in his illness. I am heartbroken by it.

I did/do not agree with many of McCain's political stances, but I refuse to allow those differences to blind me to his love of country, his service and his passion for this democracy. I am dismayed by those who do.

[cwydro]

6. Wow, Really?

Gonna attack a guy probably dying now?

How would you act in his shoes as a POW?

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Add me to the "do we really need to do this right now?" list

[cwydro]

8. Thank you.

This is ugly and reflects poorly on DU.

[Bettie]

17. Me too

this is inappropriate and frankly, smacks of kicking the guy when he's down.

[ADX]

9. Congratulations, you're in the running for "stupidest post of the day"...

...a man who served honorably under horrific conditions is fighting for his life against brain cancer and THIS is what you choose to post about?

Un-fucking-believable.

[GulfCoast66]

11. Please take it somewhere else

I hate his politics and cannot understand his world view.

But he apparently loves his country and dispite your views he behaved heroically.

If you must must minimize service men or women who sacrificed so much for their nation please do not do so on a Democratic website. It gives all of us a bad name.

[Codeine]

12. Delete this nonsense.

It reflects poorly upon you, and upon the site as a whole.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Okay, Trump. nt

[obamanut2012]

14. Loathsome

I disagree with McCain on almost everything political, but attacking a POW? A POW who was tortured, a POW WHO HAD THE CHANCE TO LEAVE HANOI BUT REFUSED TO BE RELEASED BEFORE HIS COMRADES?

If you had any shame or sense, you would delete this OP.

[LeftishBrit]

16. Not the point

He suffered badly in the war. He experienced torture and long painful imprisonment.

And he suffered more from refusing the early return than he would have even if he'd been court martialled.

And he is seriously, possibly terminally ill, now, so why choose this time to snipe at him?

[fishwax]

18. this is pretty silly, in addition to being inaccurate

First, I don't think you're correct here:

Now read article three, it states that accepting early release would be a violation and as such would be a court martial offense.

The code is, according to wikipedia, "considered an important part of U.S. military doctrine and tradition, but is not formal military law in the manner of the Uniform Code of Military Justice or public international law, such as the Geneva Conventions." So I don't think failing to live up to the code necessarily makes one subject to court martial.

Logically it also fails. The fact that it's part of the code expected doesn't mean it can't also be heroic. Otherwise, the same would be true of sacrificing one's life for one's country.

In addition to being technically and logically incorrect, it's petty and incredibly poorly timed.

[tammywammy]

19. You should delete this. n/t