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Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:24 AM

 

Talking about Sanders statement of a possible run in 2020 and positioning self.

I see this with O'Malley, too. I am receiving a lot of emails from O'Malley, building his base.

There is nothing wrong with this and everything right about this. We have to get serious and the sooner we start defining what is going on, the more successful we will be.

Sanders is building his base also. They are two different base. I prefer the O'Malley base.

I was told by a strong Sanders supporter that he could understand my position with Sanders on Social Issues, but why would I not give him credit for economic justice. Why I am so resistant in giving this to Sanders . I really do respect the conversation of a Sanders supporter that can with clear intent, make the statement "he could understand my position with Sanders on Social Issues, ". I really want him to understand when a Sanders supporter says this, there is a validation that I was not seeing things previously with a past campaign, and I feel less combative. I feel like I have been heard.

All this is important in communication.

I really would like this strong supporter to get that. Thank-you.

I think we are closer to understanding why I fight Sanders position so harshly.

Women and girls are dying.
Blacks are dying,
Latinos are dying and being sent to a country they do not know living in U.S. for three decades, ripped from family.
And of course a whole party trying to create the sin of Gay, to be against the law.

Lives.

When Trump supporters say, "Give Trump a chance": I state, "No."

"There are loss of lives. Hate and bigotry does not get a chance".

We have groups that are so desperate to live. That takes priority for me.

From my Democratic position, Sanders dividing rather than uniting a party is more disastrous for women, black, Latinos, gays than the Republican Party. The Democratic Party is our hope, and we are literally destroying our hope, to live.

That makes me angry.

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Reply Talking about Sanders statement of a possible run in 2020 and positioning self. (Original post)
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 OP
loyalsister Jul 2017 #1
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #2
loyalsister Jul 2017 #5
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #6
NCTraveler Jul 2017 #9
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #10
lunamagica Jul 2017 #3
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #4
BainsBane Jul 2017 #7
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #8
Gidney N Cloyd Jul 2017 #11
FreeStateDemocrat Jul 2017 #14
Me. Jul 2017 #12
Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #13
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #15
Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #19
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #21
Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #17
Trial_By_Fire Jul 2017 #20
Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #29
Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #16
Blue_Adept Jul 2017 #18
sunonmars Jul 2017 #22
karynnj Jul 2017 #23
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #24
karynnj Jul 2017 #25
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #26
karynnj Jul 2017 #27
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #28
KTM Jul 2017 #32
pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #33
KTM Jul 2017 #34
Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #30
karynnj Jul 2017 #31
Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #35

Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:42 AM

1. O'Malley is definitely busy

I like his ideas and his demeanor. He has a sort of romantic political history in having started in City Council. He was not ready for prime time, though. I wished through most of the primary that the other 2 would have stepped aside and mentored him.
I don't know that he would have won. But, I think he would have been a strong candidate without the baggage, long standing conflict, or bluster.
It would be ridiculous for Bernie t run at 79.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:46 AM

2. Totally agreed with all you said. O.K., almost.

 

O'Malley walked in too late without having built a base. His base was mostly Clinton, but could not achieve the status of viable. No traction. All that is easily fixed with what he is doing now. I think the man has integrity, honest, smart, politically savvy, family history and the like. I think he is a very viable candidate.

It would be easy to vote for, support and speak out for O'Malley.

It will be an interesting race, I think. We have a lot of strength in our party. I depends on if the active chaos/destructive force is allowed to split the party.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:10 PM

5. The expectations and early PACs must have been discouraging

In so many ways, he is the anti- Trump. Humble, mellow, honest, and he has an exceptionally welcoming attitude toward immigrants.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:12 PM

6. Yes, yes and yes. Clinton was formidable in her own right and Sanders colorful and bright.

 

Not a lot of oxygen left in the room.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:31 PM

9. I really think he would be a great executive.

 

I really wish he would have jumped in the running for DNC Chair. I think he has the intelligence and energy for the task. I would also like to see him make another run for the Presidency. I have stated here more than once that I hope he lined up some public speaking lessons after the last primary.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:37 PM

10. The worst public speaker I have ever heard. Lol. I totally agree with that.

 

I am hoping he has been able to put the time in working on this. He is good with a crowd, but not speaking. Obama was not nearly as good when he started either.

I thought he would be excellent with DNC. His strengths.

Also, I can see his need for one more run, differently. He learned and adapted as he went along, he was just too late.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:55 AM

3. I hope O' Malley runs, ans wins!

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:03 PM

4. Yes, but I do not know. There really are so many possibilities. Who knows what will come forward.

 

But, I do have hope. And I think the odds are great we will get an equally great. Us Democrats are that good.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:27 PM

7. Whoever runs

Please let them be under 70.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:29 PM

8. Lol, yes. Eom.

 

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:41 PM

11. Oh hell yes.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:14 PM

14. I'm over 70 and agree with you completely!

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:59 PM

12. Powerful Post 'Dude'

+1 for the honesty of it

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:08 PM

13. I would not call it 'dividing the party'...

 

There is a 'fight' in the Dem party for ideas, positions, issues, and solutions.

Being a life-long Dem, I prefer the Dem ideas, positions, issues and solutions of
progressives/liberals/Dems most notably displayed by Senator Sanders (I-VT).

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:24 PM

15. I thought I was clear in my OP that both O'Malley and Sanders appear to be creating their base.

 

That is what politicians do, and our Democratic Party absolutely need to do this. You are in Sanders base, as you state. I am an O'Malley base.

Fine.

The divide is falsely accusing, attacking, using RW language to smear and denigrate the party that is causing the divide and that is the bottom part of my OP.

I have no quarrel and am not having a conversation about your right to be a part of Sanders base. Have at it. But that is not what my Op is about.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:54 PM

19. It is important to note that...

 

...my post was about the fight for the Democrat platform. You incorrectly call it and me
the 'Sanders base'. No, my desire is to move the Dem party more to the 'people's side' which
is best portrayed with progressive/liberal FDR values. Senator Sanders is currently the
best spokesperson for those values.

And it is also important to note that constructive criticism is not 'smearing' the party.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:59 PM

21. O'Malley position is a higher quality of Liberal, Progressive, Democratic.

 

By far.

I am talking 2020 and building base.

You do not want to be identified as Sanders base? O.K. I respectfully retract.

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:48 PM

17. If he runs and loses the primary as I believe he would...it could cause division and

Trump wins...given Sen. Sander's age,the political situation, and the legal issues with Mrs. Sanders, he should not run.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:57 PM

20. I have not made up my mind about a 2020 Sanders presidential run...

 

And, Mrs. Sanders has not been found guilty of anything. We all know how investigation work - right?

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Response to Trial_By_Fire (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 01:32 PM

29. It is not a matter of guild...I don't forese that...what I so see is a loss if he loses the primary

as we could have the same BS where some stayed home or went third party...just enough to allow the GOP to steal the election...I want new candidates...let's put that awful year 16 behind us. I have trouble even hearing anything.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:46 PM

16. I have no problem with O'Malley running...but I am absolutely against either

Sanders or Clinton running...if either run, we lose.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:49 PM

18. All I know is is that I won't be a returning Sanders voter. I'll be migrating elsewhere.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:01 PM

22. He'll be 79 by then..sorry but no, please don't

We need a younger Candidate running.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Original post)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:08 PM

23. Absolute garbage - Sanders is not why women are dying, Latinos are being deported or against gays

The entire state of Vermont is a sanctuary state and the city that Sanders was once mayor of is a santuary city. In fact, Burlington and Chittenden county are refugee resettlement cities -- and that started in the late 1980s. I live in Burlington and see the activism against all the wrongs you list. There are many people who contributed to the attitute that goes beyond accepting to welcoming people -- and Bernie Sanders greatly contributed to that.

I absolutely do not think that Sanders will or should be the nominee in 2020. I do not even think he will run and, if he does, I doubt he will come close to what he did in 2016. However, your attack is nonsense.

What you are repeating is a smear that came out of the 2016 primaries. There was a preemptive strike on Bernie's very real civil rights credientials. Bernie took a year off college and worked to desegregate Chicago public schools. While Chicago was not the deep south, anyone who wants to argue that going against Mayor Daley's cops was child's play is crazy.

I thought BOTH nominees were more flawed than most previous nominees, but I was very angry that David Brock and others used a technique I associated with the Republicans - dishonestly smearing something that defines in a positive way their opponent. Now, Clinton herself had nothing to do with this, but she should have strongly reproached her allies who did this.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:13 PM

24. The destruction/chaos of our Democratic party and the splitting of the party helped to create

 

Trump Presidency. The Trump presidency certainly is causing lost lives.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #24)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:39 PM

25. Bernie did not destroy the Democratic party

There are many reasons that can be suggested for why Clinton lost -- and none of them have anything to do with Bernie.

1) It may be that the fact that so many people for nearly a decade said the country was going in the wrong direction, made 2016 another election where being the change candidate was an advantage. Yes, I know that Clinton in one primary debaate suggested that the fact that she was a woman made her a change candidate --- however, having been at or near the center of power for 20 years, meant that few saw her that way.

2) Clinton herself blames Comey's 2 letters --- and you can look at the fact that her abysmal handling of the email issue meant that the majority of the country responded in poll after poll that they did not see her as honest and trustworthy. That happened BEFORE the FBI investigation started. Not to mention, Comey himself explained that Bill Clinton's ill advised meeting with Lynch led to his announcement of the decision to not indict and the promise to tell Congress if anything new came up. Comey should have known that a letter to Congress would be released to the media in a second!

3) Nearly half of the country hears only Fox, rw talk radio and reads only rw slanted news. This is a systemic problem that has gotten worse in each election. Add to that the more mainstream cable TV seemed mesmerized by the Donald Trump show, fearing if they broke away they would miss some really outrageous thing he would say. He got an immense amount of free, unfiltered coverage. I have not seen any summaries, but I would imagine he got more coverage in the general election time frame than any other candidate has ever had.

4) The Russians --

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Response to karynnj (Reply #25)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:41 PM

26. I am not going to jump into primary discussion.

 

I believe that is Sanders goal and intent after listening to him for 5 decades. I think the last couple years has proven that out both during and after the primary.

We disagree. That happens. I agree, there were other very strong factors and you listed them out well.

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:54 PM

27. You knew Bernie 50 years ago -- 1969??

Years before he was mayor of Burlington? Maybe you should have told Senator Schumer and the others in the Senate leadership before they gave him an outreach platform.

To me, it sounds like you are the one still fighting 2016.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 20, 2017, 02:58 PM

28. There is documented conversation by Sanders. He speaks. I listen. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #28)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 02:21 PM

32. Nonsense.

 

Again. Go ahead, fall back on "blah blah blah. blah. blah blah. eom." and walk away - again - because this hyperbole is something you cannot and will not back up with any evidence.

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Response to KTM (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 03:19 PM

33. Nu uh. Eom

 

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Response to pirateshipdude (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 03:37 PM

34. Yeah, theres the empty response we expected.

 

Keep spinning hyperbolic nonsense and avoiding any responibility for it, and then wonder "why the hostility" when you expect to be taken seriously.

Transparent.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 01:33 PM

30. They have a GOP governor.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 02:10 PM

31. Yes, we do have a Republican Governor - so does Massachusetts, even Hawaii had a Republican governor

though she was replaced by a Democrat. Why is Bernie responsible for that - were Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, a pretty powerful set of Democratic Senators responsible for a series of Republican governors - Weld, Swift, Cellucci, and Romney??

I voted for Sue Minter, the Democrat, but Phil Scott is a Vermont Republican - something far different than those in the House and Senate.

Note that Massachusetts also has a Republican governor, again very different than the normal Republicans. Note that both Baker and Scott joined with the states that are commiting to fight climate change. Scott made an announcement last month, with the Mayors of Burlington, St Albans etc, some businesses and some NGOs. They will have a mini "Paris Accord" this fall where they make their commitments to lower the state's carbon footprint.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 21, 2017, 05:05 PM

35. I didn't say anyone was responsible.

However, there will be changes for Vermont with a GOP governor...it really is too bad.

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