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Sometimes, those who blame the Boomers forget... (Original Post) malthaussen Jul 2012 OP
Generations do not happen in isolation. randome Jul 2012 #1
+epic win. Zalatix Jul 2012 #4
The quotes from Plato and Croesus are especially poignant malthaussen Jul 2012 #9
I don't think anyone is claiming that the boomers created this mess. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #2
The Gilded Age was largely created by Civil War draft dodgers... malthaussen Jul 2012 #5
I've often thought similar. Back then there were all of the hopes of RKP5637 Jul 2012 #8
How does one "fight for peace"... glowing Jul 2012 #3
We Were There grilled onions Jul 2012 #6
This one statement is so true and really stuck in my mind as I RKP5637 Jul 2012 #10
Yes, we WERE there PatSeg Jul 2012 #15
We can't pretend that the boomers aren't leaving a much worse world than they inherited. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #7
I don't know about that... mindfulNJ Jul 2012 #11
Normally, I'm not into assigning blame malthaussen Jul 2012 #12
I didn't assign any blame at all. I stated a basic fact. It's the "yes, but..." that is the heart Romulox Jul 2012 #13
And I don't foresee any difference in future generations. raouldukelives Jul 2012 #19
We can't blame generations unborn for our own mistakes. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #20
I should have worded that better. I meant after the bb's. Gen X, Y etc. nt raouldukelives Jul 2012 #22
Still awfully convenient. "Your honor, I'm not guilty, because someone in the future may do worse!" Romulox Jul 2012 #25
I'm just speaking as a Gen Xer and what I have seen from them and Y. Hard to be an optimist. nt raouldukelives Jul 2012 #28
The Boomers Ate the World by changing how marketing and consumption happens here. RadiationTherapy Jul 2012 #14
But whose idea was that? malthaussen Jul 2012 #16
I did take care to mention that I doubted any generation could have endured the marketing onslaught. RadiationTherapy Jul 2012 #18
I would rather punch myself in the balls rather than listen to that damn song AngryAmish Jul 2012 #17
The Boomers are still hating on their parents? Odin2005 Jul 2012 #21
I think all this generational discussion is kind of dumb. First, nothing is ever done by members HiPointDem Jul 2012 #23
Jesus effing Christ Le Taz Hot Jul 2012 #31
I'm not a boomer JustAnotherGen Jul 2012 #24
Thanks for not dissing the boomers flamingdem Jul 2012 #26
You got it JustAnotherGen Jul 2012 #27
Thank you. SammyWinstonJack Jul 2012 #29
Good post ornotna Jul 2012 #30

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
9. The quotes from Plato and Croesus are especially poignant
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:33 AM
Jul 2012

Okay, so for what, 2500 years at least (let's just say all of recorded history) we've known the difference between right and wrong, yet still evil prospers. There's a flaw in the design there, methinks.

-- Mal

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
2. I don't think anyone is claiming that the boomers created this mess.
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:14 AM
Jul 2012

My complaint, and I am a boomer, is that we fucking lost the recipe somewhere between 1975 and today. A generation that was going to change the world for the better, that was all about peace and love, has become the generation that has produced the most reactionary and corrupt government of this country since the gilded age. We didn't make this world a better place, we made it worse.

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
5. The Gilded Age was largely created by Civil War draft dodgers...
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:24 AM
Jul 2012

Interesting parallel, I think. Like Romney and so many of our Boomer generation politicians, the men who created the Gilded Age started out by evading service in the Civil War. Clearly, it is not a good idea to put political power in the hands of people who have no regard for serving their country. Of course, the parallel is not precise, since not every draft evader is a conscienceless, empty-souled psychopath like so many of our soi-disant "leaders." Hell, I'm technically a draft dodger, and I am the most amiable of men.

While the bulk of the Boomers were either doing their duty or actively fighting the stupidity, the politically-ambitious were quietly building up their stock options and making the contacts necessary for success. We didn't "lose the recipe," we simply turned our political clout over to the amoral. It would be interesting to understand the reasons for this abdication.

-- Mal

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
8. I've often thought similar. Back then there were all of the hopes of
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:32 AM
Jul 2012

a better world, more harmony, more love than war, a strong faith in the fellowship of mankind to lift up all in the world, more and more education, the use of technology for good causes than evil, etc., etc. and in many ways all of that loftiness has gone to hell in a hand basket.

Instead, more and more greed, cheating, corruption and a very diversionary reactionary government was unleashed. And across the world chaos increases and increases.


grilled onions

(1,957 posts)
6. We Were There
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:29 AM
Jul 2012

There used to be silly mini movies shown at school called You Are There and it tried to put you in the middle of historical events. In the 60's we were there! We had such hop for the 3 K's. No it was not $$$ and no it was not the infamous "three k's" but rather The two Kennedy's and King. We were in the middle of a war we did not understand,did not want and got to see far too many boys,mandated by law, shipped to the rice paddies never to come home or to come home unable to speak of the horrors or so physically maimed that they were never whole again.
We were blamed for the huge growth spurt in classroom sizes. Later on we have been blamed for taking too many jobs,hogging up social security etc. But then as in many times in our past a former war(sorry police action) that we call the Korean War was in part to blame for this bounce of newborns circa 1950 or so. How ironic that one war's "booms" created a boom of babies that we are still at fault for just being part of a population explosion.
We had hopes and dreams and we could have come a long way if not for others who stopped our ideas from maturing. We had good leaders but these leaders were viewed a major threat and were eliminated before they could improve our world. Let's hope the next generation of "boomers" can get their ideas across before it's too late.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
10. This one statement is so true and really stuck in my mind as I
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:37 AM
Jul 2012

read your reply. "We had good leaders but these leaders were viewed a major threat and were eliminated before they could improve our world." Often when someone good rises, they are stuck down. So we move along in this muddled rut we call American Exceptionalism.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
15. Yes, we WERE there
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:56 AM
Jul 2012

and I remember what things were like before the sixties and seventies. So many things that younger people take for granted came to pass because of the Boomers. We didn't read about it in history books, we were witnesses.

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
12. Normally, I'm not into assigning blame
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:43 AM
Jul 2012

But as for leaving the world: 1) The Boomers aren't done yet 2) It was the "greatest generation" who gave us Nixon, Reagan, and the elder Bush (actually, Ron is even a generation before). True, though, the Boomers have to take credit for Clinton and the younger Bush, each of whom screwed things up in their own way (NAFTA, the War on Terror). What I think is interesting is that it is not "mainstream" Boomers who accelerated the Decline of the US Empire, but people who were outside of their generation all along (hell, you can even include Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in that equation, whatever you may think of the value of the personal computer revolution). Makes me think that as we look at the rising generation, we should pay attention not to the regular folks, but to those on the fringes who have much ambition and no morals. These are, apparently, the ones who succeed time after time, generation after generation.

-- Mal

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
13. I didn't assign any blame at all. I stated a basic fact. It's the "yes, but..." that is the heart
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:45 AM
Jul 2012

of your argument.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
19. And I don't foresee any difference in future generations.
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 12:20 PM
Jul 2012

Probably much, much worse actually. If there is one thing we can seemingly count on from our history it is our ability to outdo ourselves in ignorance and selfishness.

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
14. The Boomers Ate the World by changing how marketing and consumption happens here.
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:50 AM
Jul 2012

That has a lot to do with psychology research and breakthroughs that were adapted into modern day marketing and politicking and I am not certain any population in any time or place could have withstood it, but if not for the 2-car/2-home/closet full of clothes mentality that emerged during the 70s and 80s among middle class, 18-35 year old boomers, we may have evolved into a society that is less polluted and better adapted to walkers, bikers, and mass transit.

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
16. But whose idea was that?
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
Jul 2012

When the Boom began, marketing experts (all of previous generations) were excited by the possibility of the huge new consumer market. The Boomers were targetted from before birth to become a consumer market. Now, who created this, the marketing experts or the consumers? Obviously, a little of both, but when all of your most trusted adult role-models are telling you that happiness consists in "dying with the most toys," is it the malleable young mind that is at fault, or the cynical manipulators who are trying to add to their bottom lines? Sure, the parents of the Boomers were targetted, too -- after the war, when they were supposedly adults and capable of critical thinking. Post-war prosperity lead the US to really believe it was possible to have both guns and butter -- but that was not the idea of a bunch of Barbie-owning toddlers, but of the "Best and Brightest" of the WWII generation. The result was an enormous blank check that was left to the limitless future to pay off. Alas, that future is now here -- and it is not as limitless as we were led to believe. Even now, y'know, the big complaint is that people aren't able to "get ahead," by which is meant have the two cars and a picket fence dream fostered by the post-war mentality. IMO, this is missing the point, which is that people aren't even surviving, let alone "getting ahead."

-- Mal

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
18. I did take care to mention that I doubted any generation could have endured the marketing onslaught.
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:47 AM
Jul 2012

I agree with nearly everything you say, but that doesn't mean the production, consumption, and pollution (and poor planning, etc) didn't happen. It did happen and boomers were a large part of it, but I do see them as victims of a larger scheme.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
21. The Boomers are still hating on their parents?
Thu Jul 12, 2012, 01:25 PM
Jul 2012

The Greatest Generation saved the world from Fascism and then you guys called then Fascists.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
23. I think all this generational discussion is kind of dumb. First, nothing is ever done by members
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 05:14 AM
Jul 2012

of a single "generation".

Second, the people responsible for reversing the 60s ethos were not rank-&-file boomers, they were the ruling class, in a deliberate, planned push-back that included propaganda, legislation, and economic terrorism.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
24. I'm not a boomer
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 07:14 AM
Jul 2012

And I don't blame them for anything.

They were and are a sucker punched generation.

Work hard, mind your p's and q's, do the right things - and you will reap great rewards. But that didn't happen. And now we are sitting on a tinder box of folks whose homes are underwater, don't have pensions/life savings, through no fault of their own watched good jobs go away, etc etc

Another Billy Joel song says it better - Allentown:

Every child has apretty good shot, to get at least as far as his old man got, but something happened on the way to that place. They threw an American flag in our place.

Sucker punched. And anyone of my gen x peers ought to be ashamed of themselves if they focus their energy on perceived assery on the part of the non-elite in the Boomer generation. Our sole focus needs to be making sure these folks - our parents - have a roof over their head, clothing, food, medicine, electric and gas.

They are going to need our help. Maybe it's because I'm black and a woman - but for the doors they smashed open for me with a battering ram - I owe them that much. America is not perfect. We aren't the greates nation eveeeeer.

But we can be if we make sure these people who are approaching their senior years are taken care if. I'm not kicking the boomers when they are down.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
27. You got it
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 09:53 AM
Jul 2012

It's just more 'otherism'.


For every George Bush and Mitt Romney - there are 3000 Americans their same age that busted their asses all of their lives and are now in a precarious financial position. And it's not their fault.

The Rules of the Game changed and no one told them until the oldest of these folks (my mom turns 65 this year) were well into their late 50's.

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