Josh Marshall, TPM - "There It Is, Folks"

[NRaleighLiberal]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/there-it-is-folks



By JOSH MARSHALL Published JULY 20, 2017 9:34 PM

A host of stories are out tonight on the Trump White House’s new war about Special Counsel and former FBI Director Robert Mueller. But I want to focus on one thing. The Post reports that the President has been canvassing his lawyers about the possibility of pardoning aides, family and even pardoning himself.

From the Post …

Some of President Trump’s lawyers are exploring ways to limit or undercut special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation, building a case against what they allege are his conflicts of interest and discussing the president’s authority to grant pardons, according to people familiar with the effort.

Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people. A second person said Trump’s lawyers have been discussing the president’s pardoning powers among themselves.

[Grassy Knoll]

1. Dump Knows His Fam & Friends Are Going Down

Bye-Bye-Bye

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

2. Not the least bit surprising. I mean, that was an obvious one

he was going to try. And, who's to stop him?

[yallerdawg]

3. He should be talking to Mike Pence.

[volstork]

8. Pence is going down, too.

Wouldn't surprise me if half of the GOP congress of both houses is implicated.

[greatauntoftriplets]

4. This latest revelation is an admission of guilt if I've ever seen one.

Unreal.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. It IS a legal admission of guilt, actually.

And the second he tries to pardon anything, it will be in the courts, and appealed and dragged on up to SCOTUS
which takes time time time that he does not have, while the investigation continues.

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. That's good to know.

It certainly sounds like obstruction or justice.

[Jim Lane]

10. I disagree on both counts.

First, for a new President, who obviously didn't prepare very well for the job, to ask experts about one aspect of the law concerning the powers of his office, is not an admission of guilt on his part, let alone an admission by anyone else. (My recollection is that legal experts are divided about whether accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, but so far no one has accepted a pardon, so that's moot at this time.)

Second, the presidential pardoning power is absolute. There is no colorable legal case to be brought by anyone (even if you could find someone who had standing) that would justify a court in setting aside a pardon. If someone brought such a case, it would be dismissed very quickly, the dismissal would be affirmed, and the Supreme Court wouldn't even grant a petition to hear the case. Mueller knows all this and would not bring any criminal charges that were covered by such a pardon.

Mueller would, instead, act promptly to get sworn testimony from the pardoned person(s). The normal Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination doesn't apply to someone who's not at risk of a criminal prosecution. A pardon can't be prospective, so the pardonee would still be liable to prosecution for contempt (for defying a subpoena by not appearing or by not answering questions) or for perjury (for answering falsely). For that reason, Trump would be foolish to pardon some underling unless he's completely confident that the underling won't sing.

[leftstreet]

7. He doesn't KNOW if he can/can't pardon himself?

He's having to ask?

What a fucking idiot

And what's the matter - doesn't he trust Pence to pardon him?

[Hekate]

9. The Mad King is massively ignorant about anything to do with government, including The Law...

MAGA-ites wanted a businessman as president because idiots think running the government is/should be just like running a business, and that creating a federal budget is just like balancing a family budget at the kitchen table.

The blind leading the blind.

[oasis]

11. Trump should never have happened in the first place. nt