Is it right that whoever a President pardons cannot then plead the 5th b/c cannot incriminate self

[Madam45for2923]

Last edited Sat Jul 22, 2017, 07:03 AM - Edit history (2)

any longer? Is this like immunity?


Edit to add this article link provided by PoliticAverse:

How a Presidential Pardon Could Backfire

President Trump is considering pardoning family members and staffers caught up in the Russia investigation, but legal experts warn that it could backfire by making it harder for them to avoid testifying.

Under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, Americans are protected against self-incrimination, but people who have been pardoned are no longer under any legal jeopardy, Harvard Law School Professor Laurence Tribe told TIME.

"Anyone pardoned by Trump would lose most of the 5th Amendment’s protection against compelled testimony that might otherwise have incriminated the pardoned family member or associate, making it much easier for DOJ and Congress to require such individuals to give testimony that could prove highly incriminating to Trump himself," Tribe said in an email.

http://time.com/4868418/donald-trump-presidential-pardons-backfire/

[Foamfollower]

1. That's the legal theory.

Not a lot of precedent to support it, though there is some and nothing in precedent counters it.

The key is, refusing to testify would be felony contempt and lying in testimony would still be perjury, which mens both would require an additional pardon.

It's also why Nixon didn't pardon anybody.

[Madam45for2923]

5. Interesting and interesting about Nizon not pardoning anyone because of that.

Had not thought of that!

[Kaleva]

2. That's the way I understand it

A person who accepts a pardon, and by doing so is admitting guilt, cannot plead the 5th and has to answer all questions or be held in contempt and if they lie, face perjury charges.

[forgotmylogin]

18. And they cannot plead the 5th...

because that specific plea protects people from being coerced to incriminate themselves in a crime. Since they are pardoned for the crime, there is no danger of self-incrimination, so not answering truthfully is perjury or contempt.

[GulfCoast66]

3. bingo

If they fail to testify they can be held in contempt.

If they lie, they can be charged with perjury.

Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. When the go to testify, they testify as an guilty person.

But do you see a republican congress holding any of Trumps toadies in contempt?

[Madam45for2923]

11. 2018 is around the corner though.

[PoliticAverse]

4. Yes. For a discussion see this Time Magazine article...

http://time.com/4868418/donald-trump-presidential-pardons-backfire/

[Madam45for2923]

6. Thanks for the info/link!!!

[Stinky The Clown]

7. A clear example of being careful what you wish for.

A pardoned Jarvanka will be compelled to roll over on Two Scoops

[Madam45for2923]

10. Or people not pardoned might roll on Donald.

[TomSlick]

8. If a person is pardoned

and if s/he accepts the pardon, then s/he cannot invoke the 5th Amendment because there is no risk of self-incrimination. However, a pardon is only effective if accepted by the person pardoned because the acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt. See, Burdick v. US, 236 U.S. 79 (1915).

[Madam45for2923]

9. Aha! So good to know.

Thank you for the info.

[byronius]

12. Thanks for that, good to know.

[wcmagumba]

13. But...

they could be pardoned for additional charges it seems....Kinda an infinity of pardons possible...crazy times.

[Madam45for2923]

14. One good thing is that Presidents cannot do pardons in the individual States courts like NY, NJ etc.

[TomSlick]

15. Correct

The pardon power is extraordinarily broad. The drafters assumed a minimum level of decency on the part of public officials. But we know what comes of assuming.

[Madam45for2923]

16. But he cannot pardon in States' courts!

[TomSlick]

17. Also correct.

[dsc]

19. For the most part I think that is correct but I can see scenarios where it might not be

For example, lets say while Kushner was meeting with the Russians about stealing the election he also killed a hooker but Trump only pardoned him for the stealing of the election. He still could plead the fifth for questions that would lead to the discovery that he killed the hooker.

[Madam45for2923]

20. But if not pardoned for something can get prosecuted for that exact something.

[Madam45for2923]

21. Kicking!

[Madam45for2923]

22. Kicking!