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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,708 posts)
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 02:51 PM Jul 2017

***BREAKING ***Congress Reaches Deal on Russia Sanctions, Creating Bleak Choice for Trump

WASHINGTON — Congressional leaders have reached an agreement on sweeping sanctions legislation to punish Russia for its election-meddling and aggression toward its neighbors, they said Saturday, defying the White House’s argument that President Trump needs flexibility to adjust the sanctions to fit his diplomatic initiatives with Moscow.

The new legislation sharply limits the president’s ability to suspend or terminate the sanctions. At a moment when investigations into the Trump campaign’s interactions with Russian officials have cast a shadow over his presidency, Mr. Trump could soon face a bleak decision: veto the bill — and fuel accusations that he is doing the bidding of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia — or sign legislation imposing sanctions his administration abhors.

The White House has not publicly spoken about the compromise legislation. But two senior administration officials said they could not imagine Mr. Trump vetoing the legislation in the current political atmosphere, even if he regards it as interfering with his executive authority to conduct foreign policy. But as ever, Mr. Trump retains the capacity to surprise, and this would be his first decision about whether to veto a significant bill.

Congress has complicated his choice because the compromise legislation also encompasses new sanctions against Iran and North Korea, two countries the administration has been eager to punish for its activities.

A sanctions package had stalled in the Republican-led House for weeks after winning near-unanimous support in the Senate last month. Democrats accused Republicans of delaying quick action on the bill at the behest of the Trump administration, which had asked for more flexibility in its relationship with Russia and took up the cause of energy companies, defense contractors and other financial players who suggested that certain provisions could harm American businesses.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/us/politics/congress-sanctions-russia.html

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***BREAKING ***Congress Reaches Deal on Russia Sanctions, Creating Bleak Choice for Trump (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2017 OP
Trump now unable to deliver for Putin Moral Compass Jul 2017 #1
Yeah, but Trump like Russians leaking on him. clayton72 Jul 2017 #5
Not sure what you mean. But Putin will leak just to destabilize US when tRump gets useless to him. Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #16
The pee tape Nevernose Jul 2017 #18
Ah, when read in a golden light the phrasing makes good sense now! No problem. Ta. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #21
Not sure what you mean. left-of-center2012 Jul 2017 #20
I interpreted it too literally or not literally enough, but a DU member set me right! . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #22
Trump just gave him what Putin wanted in Syria. John Alice11111 Jul 2017 #33
McCain cried foul from his hospital bed? janx Jul 2017 #51
It was in WaPo last night. He objected & said it was a bad idea Alice11111 Jul 2017 #52
Bernardo, I have long thought this was exactly PUtin's long game. lark Jul 2017 #68
If they can't get what they want, they will slowly leak kompromat. roamer65 Jul 2017 #6
This. nt Ligyron Jul 2017 #11
***BREAKING ***Congress Reaches Deal on Russia Sanctions, Creating Bleak Choice for Trump. LenaBaby61 Jul 2017 #15
+1. Destabilized US gives Putin a freer hand in Ukraine and Middle East. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #17
Why would they spoil any potential leverage? misanthrope Jul 2017 #7
I suspect their leverage on him is more financial than personal MrPurple Jul 2017 #9
Yes, christians will forgive pee tapes but not selling out the country. Their sons and Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #19
I think you give them too much credit. misanthrope Jul 2017 #25
Are you sure about that? volstork Jul 2017 #50
I'd like to disagree with you about your statement... chwaliszewski Jul 2017 #65
Don't think pee pee is greater than admitting he's a sexual Alice11111 Jul 2017 #34
What I recall from the dossier was a rumor of his voyeurism misanthrope Jul 2017 #40
Maybe...but fake news, like Pussy Grabbing, bragged about Alice11111 Jul 2017 #41
I agree misanthrope Jul 2017 #48
...that might do it, but so far, whatever he does, no matter Alice11111 Jul 2017 #49
what if the tape shows him being violent w very young girls? mopinko Jul 2017 #55
And woe to him when Putin decides that calimary Jul 2017 #63
"Vladimir V. Putin" -- glad NYT clarified that name, I was wondering ... eppur_se_muova Jul 2017 #2
When I read those aloud to my wife, I always STRESS the middle initial bellmartin Jul 2017 #61
K & R Duppers Jul 2017 #3
Let him veto it. Then Congress needs to override the veto. roamer65 Jul 2017 #4
Can he veto a bill that already has 2/3rds majority passage? Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #10
Why wouldn't he be able to? n/t Ms. Toad Jul 2017 #28
I think the qestion was louis c Jul 2017 #54
To some extent, I was being a smart-ass. Ms. Toad Jul 2017 #56
I know what you mean louis c Jul 2017 #57
That's the lesson a friend of mine learned Ms. Toad Jul 2017 #58
Hear, hear! I'm also frustrated by how few understand how Congress works. yardwork Jul 2017 #59
Thanks! Tiggeroshii Jul 2017 #60
If the vote is close in one House NewJeffCT Jul 2017 #66
I predict a Veto ... mr_lebowski Jul 2017 #8
Yup, interesting you said that. BigmanPigman Jul 2017 #13
A smart congressional move that keeps them from looking complicit, since 45's never ancianita Jul 2017 #12
Agree, a smart Congressional move. It may be like Alice11111 Jul 2017 #35
The main thing is this helps show that they're not accessories after the fact, complicit in Russian ancianita Jul 2017 #42
Sounds right. However, I believe MM knew & was complicit Alice11111 Jul 2017 #44
Very likely. "Culprit" is written all over his face. ancianita Jul 2017 #45
So that's why he always looks sneaky, malicious & mean Alice11111 Jul 2017 #46
Sad that we have to play cat & mouse with our president. displacedtexan Jul 2017 #14
"Diplomatic initiatives," my ass. 3catwoman3 Jul 2017 #23
like private unmonitored meetings with putin? nt tomp Jul 2017 #30
The only "adjustment" to his "initiatives" required Buns_of_Fire Jul 2017 #67
Let the vote be veto proof and if he vetoes the bill let the veto be 100%. Thinkingabout Jul 2017 #24
He'll probably do nothing. krispos42 Jul 2017 #26
This is a lose-lose for Chump Dopers_Greed Jul 2017 #27
My guess, He will veto it. He will obfuscate & Alice11111 Jul 2017 #38
When Trump can't deliver what Putin wants, SummerSnow Jul 2017 #29
...and Mueller is closing in from the other direction too. Alice11111 Jul 2017 #39
This is called playing politics Takket Jul 2017 #31
I have three words, and only three words as a reaction to this: Still In Wisconsin Jul 2017 #32
It's not a big deal, compared to the money with all of the Alice11111 Jul 2017 #36
This would have no impact on his base, including fundies.. JenniferJuniper Jul 2017 #37
Handy thing, isn't it, that whole... 3catwoman3 Jul 2017 #69
You down with OPP, I mean PPT MiddleClass Jul 2017 #43
Yeah, you know me! eom. Still In Wisconsin Jul 2017 #62
So, Trump's relationship with the Senate is going downhill? LudwigPastorius Jul 2017 #47
The Indians are circling the wagon. Tee Hee appleannie1943 Jul 2017 #53
Ding a ling a ling..... magicarpet Jul 2017 #64

Moral Compass

(1,513 posts)
1. Trump now unable to deliver for Putin
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:16 PM
Jul 2017


It will be interesting to see what the Russians and Putin do from this point forward.

Someone earlier posted that Trump had not delivered for the Russians. I argued that he has done a lot so far, but eliminating or substantially relaxing the sanctions is what Putin wants most.

There's a lot of nasty stuff the Russians have available to leak on Trump.

Wonder if we could see the emergence of a smoking gun. There's no reason now to not let things out that could utterly destroy Trump.

The US will remain effectively paralyzed whether they make Mueller dig it out or they make it easy by leaking it to mainstream journalists.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,955 posts)
16. Not sure what you mean. But Putin will leak just to destabilize US when tRump gets useless to him.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 04:07 PM
Jul 2017

Putin figures he will use Trump (Republican) as long as he can get direct benefits. When Trump becomes useless, he will leak information and kompromat with the aim of destabilizing the US for as long as possible. A Constitutional crisis or a prolonged impeachment or trials of prominent Republicons would suit him just fine.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
18. The pee tape
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 04:10 PM
Jul 2017

Leaking on him?

Those of us with the emotional maturity of 12 year old boys appreciated the pee-pee joke.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
33. Trump just gave him what Putin wanted in Syria. John
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:37 PM
Jul 2017

McCain cried foul, even from his hospital bed.
DT is pulling out help to rebel forces fighting Assad, paving the way for Putin and Assad. Nevermind, there people have risked their lives upon our promises, and now have no backup. One more group that will justifiably hate us.

Putin be greedy. DT just handed him Syria, with Assad, once ISIS is vanquished, and now he still wants to open the billions from the oil spigots barred by the sanctions.

janx

(24,128 posts)
51. McCain cried foul from his hospital bed?
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 07:17 PM
Jul 2017

It would not surprise me, but I haven't heard about this one. Please elaborate!

lark

(23,061 posts)
68. Bernardo, I have long thought this was exactly PUtin's long game.
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 10:37 AM
Jul 2017

Use drumpf to get what they want, then destroy him and the ruling party in our government by leaking a lot of the compromising materials/tapes. Fucking up our country is the goal after they get what they want, that's why they went with drumpf, maximum destruction of the American way of life.

roamer65

(36,744 posts)
6. If they can't get what they want, they will slowly leak kompromat.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:37 PM
Jul 2017

They don't want him gone, but they will try to fuck up our system.

LenaBaby61

(6,972 posts)
15. ***BREAKING ***Congress Reaches Deal on Russia Sanctions, Creating Bleak Choice for Trump.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 04:03 PM
Jul 2017
"They don't want him gone, but they will try to fuck up our system."

This.

And as you said, they have kompromat on him for days including and "allegedly" all of his Federal taxes

He can't be too happy TODAY about this sanctions bill, we know that 😂

What's he gonna do, fire the Senate & Congress like he did Comey?

misanthrope

(7,408 posts)
7. Why would they spoil any potential leverage?
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:38 PM
Jul 2017

It can always be useful down the road.

Besides, even if the purported "Pee Pee Tape" were true, what difference would it make now? His base won't turn on him, neither will his party. Is watching others engage in a sexual act while in another country an impeachable offense?

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,955 posts)
19. Yes, christians will forgive pee tapes but not selling out the country. Their sons and
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 04:11 PM
Jul 2017

The christian fundie base of tRump's (Republican) support forgave "grab 'em by the pussy" and they will forgive a pee tape.

But though their sons and daughters and mothers and fathers died to uphold the freedom to participate in golden showers (among other activities), they did NOT die so that an erstwhile billionaire could have more golf courses.

Put it in those terms and they will finally begin to understand.

volstork

(5,399 posts)
50. Are you sure about that?
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 07:13 PM
Jul 2017

"Christians" only want gays to go back into the closet and women not to have abortions. That's ALL they care about...

chwaliszewski

(1,514 posts)
65. I'd like to disagree with you about your statement...
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 04:55 AM
Jul 2017

but I can't on the grounds that I believe that to be about 94.7% true.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
34. Don't think pee pee is greater than admitting he's a sexual
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:42 PM
Jul 2017

Pervert, with his own lips, right here. Still, some of the right didn't believe it...or care, obviously.

Peeing on Russians is probably way better. I guess they peed on him too, in beds, so the dossier alludes.

misanthrope

(7,408 posts)
40. What I recall from the dossier was a rumor of his voyeurism
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:54 PM
Jul 2017

a pair of female prostitutes urinating on the bed while he watched from a few feet away. Its value would have been to cost him votes in an election.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
41. Maybe...but fake news, like Pussy Grabbing, bragged about
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:58 PM
Jul 2017

By his very own lips on video. He survived it. Deplorables either don't believe it or care. Some have straight faced, more angry faced, told me it's fake news. I don't think the fine details matter. I HOPE I AM WRONG!

misanthrope

(7,408 posts)
48. I agree
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 06:59 PM
Jul 2017

It would take far more than a pee-pee tape at this point. Unless it is video of him taking a dump on the American flag while handing missile codes to Putin with one hand and uranium to Islamic militants with the other then I doubt the GOP or his base would do anything.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
49. ...that might do it, but so far, whatever he does, no matter
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 07:07 PM
Jul 2017

how many agencies say it, even on video with him talking...it's back to his being right, in that, he could murder someone in plain sight and he would not lose the support of his base.

mopinko

(69,990 posts)
55. what if the tape shows him being violent w very young girls?
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 08:26 PM
Jul 2017

sex, no, but if it backs up jane doe's allegations?

calimary

(81,109 posts)
63. And woe to him when Putin decides that
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 12:41 AM
Jul 2017

his newly-acquired manservant isn't delivering what he expects.

It'll suck BIGLY to be you, Donald.

eppur_se_muova

(36,247 posts)
2. "Vladimir V. Putin" -- glad NYT clarified that name, I was wondering ...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:31 PM
Jul 2017

"Now, which Vladimir Putin are they referring to this time ?"

bellmartin

(218 posts)
61. When I read those aloud to my wife, I always STRESS the middle initial
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 10:37 PM
Jul 2017

It's comforting, isn't it, to be absolutely sure of whom they're talking about?

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
10. Can he veto a bill that already has 2/3rds majority passage?
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:44 PM
Jul 2017

I suspect this one could be a near unanimous vote.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
54. I think the qestion was
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 08:19 PM
Jul 2017

if a bill passes by a margin that's greater than a two third's vote in each chamber, is it veto proof. Meaning that the President can't veto it.

the answer is that the vote does not matter. The President can still veto and the override must still take place. One cannot assume a yes vote before a veto remains that way after the veto. A second vote in both chambers becomes necessary.

The margin in the initial vote is still an indicator of the override, but it cannot be assumed.

Ms. Toad

(33,992 posts)
56. To some extent, I was being a smart-ass.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 08:45 PM
Jul 2017

The extent to which our side also messes up Civics 101 troubles me. Usually I explain relatively patiently, but sometimes I get cranky and my fingers get the better of me.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
57. I know what you mean
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 09:02 PM
Jul 2017

but it's like that everywhere I go, from both sides.

Many left leaning voters who didn't like Hilary couldn't see the danger of voting third party or write in. that lack of sophistication and knowledge of our system has caused us the problems we have today.

Before we convince others to vote the right way, we need to educate our side in understanding that you can fight for your candidate in the primary, but we must come together in the general.

The Hilary voters understood that fact in 2008. I was disappointed that she lost in the primary, but I was working my ass off for Obama in the general. I know what's at stake. Judges, Boards, policies etc. We are much better off with the second choice Democrat than any Republican at the national level.

But, alas, too may on our side will have to learn the hard way.

Ms. Toad

(33,992 posts)
58. That's the lesson a friend of mine learned
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 09:09 PM
Jul 2017

When he worked his tail off for Nader in 2000, despite me and others talking ourselves blue in the face.

Since then he's become an elected democrat (locally), and strongly discourages spoiler candidates. Too bad I couldn't find a way to convince him when it mattered . . .

As for "both sides" - we like to trash Republicans for being ignorant and illiterate - but far too often we need to reinforce our own glass windows before lobbing so many stones.

yardwork

(61,538 posts)
59. Hear, hear! I'm also frustrated by how few understand how Congress works.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 09:14 PM
Jul 2017

People keep asking why don't the Democrats do something!!!!! I get tired of explaining that the majority party controls everything in Congress, including whether or not something even gets taken up in committee, whether or not an investigation is ordered, etc.

The same people who don't understand how Congress works are the ones who voted third party as some kind of asinine protest and got us in this fix in the first place.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
66. If the vote is close in one House
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 09:44 AM
Jul 2017

The president can then lobby a few "shaky" members of Congress to change their votes - maybe enough time for Putin to feed him some Kopromat on those shaky members?

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
8. I predict a Veto ...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:41 PM
Jul 2017

He'll get SOOOOO much attention that way!

And you know what THAT means, right?

Yup ... RATINGS! Sweet, sweet RATINGS!

It'll also show those dumb ol' Dems and Failing NY Times and the Amazon WaPo who's REALLY in charge of stuff. He don't GAF about being accused of coddling Putin cause no REAL Murkins think he has anything to do with Pootie anyways ...

BigmanPigman

(51,567 posts)
13. Yup, interesting you said that.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:48 PM
Jul 2017

I heard that idea on the news yesterday and said out loud, "Wow, that makes sense, I never thought of that". The person said that partisanship gets more ratings and revenue for media outlets and the companies who own them. Therefore by continuing to keep the friction between the two parties is a win for them financially!

ancianita

(35,932 posts)
12. A smart congressional move that keeps them from looking complicit, since 45's never
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:45 PM
Jul 2017

articulated any coherent foreign policy, anyway.

There's a saying that the problem with business is government and vice versa.

Right now, the problem with government is how other nation's ways of doing business corrupt our government.

His vetoing this bill would just add to the FBI's case.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
35. Agree, a smart Congressional move. It may be like
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:44 PM
Jul 2017

Voting over and over to repeal Obamacare. Makes them look good, but they really won't have to answer for it.

ancianita

(35,932 posts)
42. The main thing is this helps show that they're not accessories after the fact, complicit in Russian
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 06:01 PM
Jul 2017

dealings in the US, or complicit in the obstruction of justice of the FBI's investigation.

They're passing this bill because many in that majority party knew what Sessions and others were doing, fooling around with Russian money in this country, and they kept silent.

Now that the public knows that many of them knew about Russian money, internet and election interference, they're trying to save their seats back home. They're trying to do a Pontius Pilate wash of hands of it all.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,151 posts)
67. The only "adjustment" to his "initiatives" required
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 09:59 AM
Jul 2017

is to flip his tie over his shoulder so it doesn't get tangled in Pootie's butt cheeks.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
26. He'll probably do nothing.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 04:51 PM
Jul 2017

After I think 10 days, a law passed by both Houses becomes law.

With the exception of the pocket veto.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
27. This is a lose-lose for Chump
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 04:53 PM
Jul 2017

1. He vetoes the sanctions, but that would cause a political meltdown for him, and Congress would likely override the veto.

2. He lets it pass, not delivering for his Benefactor, Putie. Who knows how much more leverage they have over him than is currently public.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
38. My guess, He will veto it. He will obfuscate &
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:51 PM
Jul 2017

behind the scenes, try to convince house members not to send it.

He's got too much to lose to let this pass. Maybe he let's it pass, and then he guts it. All roads eventuality lead to keeping Putin happy.

Takket

(21,528 posts)
31. This is called playing politics
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:06 PM
Jul 2017

Despite their fear of defying their previous deplorables in public, congress just sent 45 an indirect message.... we can't stand you.

This is the game 45 has no chance at.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
36. It's not a big deal, compared to the money with all of the
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:47 PM
Jul 2017

Russian ties. Repealing sanctions unlocks billions and billions.

JenniferJuniper

(4,507 posts)
37. This would have no impact on his base, including fundies..
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 05:49 PM
Jul 2017

they'd just say "He's a baby Christian now. He'd never do that today."

Incredible, but true.

LudwigPastorius

(9,104 posts)
47. So, Trump's relationship with the Senate is going downhill?
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 06:56 PM
Jul 2017

Will he, like Caligula, start ordering them to run beside his limo?

magicarpet

(14,119 posts)
64. Ding a ling a ling.....
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 02:41 AM
Jul 2017

Hello is this room service

Could we order a Diet Coke with a one ounce shot of Putin's Plutonium.
Hold the ice if you would
That is for room 666 and charge it to the D.Trump Sr. account.

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