GUYS: WARNING! WATCH CAREFULLY to see if this starts happening in your district:

[calimary]

Last edited Sun Jul 23, 2017, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Hey folks -

I went to a formal Santa Monica-area Democratic group meeting this past Thursday night, and witnessed something deeply troubling. What looked, sounded, felt, and strongly suggested was a planned-and-coordinated effort to disrupt Democratic gatherings. I wanted to put the word out here - in case it's the start of a "disease" that may be metastasizing. I don't know. But in the back of my mind, there's this little red flag that's starting to pop up. It's spring-loaded. And when I mentally try to push it down, it keeps popping back up. I was sufficiently troubled by this to document it all - in an email I sent around to several other Democratic and liberal groups here in SoCal. And there were police on hand - who stood around and did nothing. Their presence was NOT a deterrent - of ANY sort whatsoever.

Here's what I wrote (APOLOGIES that it's long - but please read it):

Hey folks -

I'm getting worried. And I hope to Heaven I'm wrong.

I'm sorry to have to write this, but my alarm bells are ringing. And I wanted YOU to be aware of it, at least.

I now cannot help but suspect there might be a new trump-related "battle tactic" starting to play out against Democrats and Democratic groups here in our true-blue Westside.

Thursday night, at the Santa Monica Democratic Club monthly meeting (MLK Auditorium, Santa Monica Main Library, ground floor), we dues-paying members who gathered to hear State Senate Pro Tem Kevin De Leon speak had our entire meeting HIJACKED by a small but loud and rude mob of pro-trump agitators. There were maybe 8 - 10 of them. Aggressive, nasty, belligerent, hollering out mean-spirited insults and MULTIPLE other interruptions during the program, shouting down several Latino/Latina guest speakers trying to share their fears and struggles as undocumented people. Hotel workers, students, moms, grown children who either were undocumented themselves or feared for their undocumented parents. These trumpsters were total jackasses, shouting over them, hurling insults, telling them to go back where they came from, they were breaking the law, "build the wall", and numerous other unkind and, frankly, UNAMERICAN jeers and epithets.

They seemed prepared. They all seemed to know each other. They came with placards and protest signs at the ready. They all sat in the same general area together, at the front of the auditorium. They were not members (I saw a couple of them scurry over to the "non-members sign-in table" outside the auditorium while I waited in line to sign in at the members table, before the program started). I'd been to a few of these meetings before and did not recognize any of these people.

They all came with their cell phones, of course, ready to shoot video of any confrontation that several of the men involved seemed hellbent on provoking to stir up more trouble and use that for publicity purposes. Fortunately, our membership that night did not take the bait as far as physical altercations, but we did outshout them with chanting and clapping because we vastly outnumbered them. But they were unrelenting. All it took to disrupt the entire meeting, time and time again, was their loud, angry, rude, and downright hateful interruption. This was literally HORRIBLE. Some of these guest speakers were soft-spoken and did not speak English. It was painful to watch this utter disgrace!

These same provocateurs were particularly rude, thoughtless, and inconsiderate when Kevin De Leon took the podium. He could barely finish a sentence. Their abuse and heckling rained down on him like a hailstorm. Not surprisingly, a meeting that ordinarily continues till the Library closes at 9pm ended unexpectedly early - about 8:20. These assholes ruined the whole night.

Meanwhile, there was a very obvious police presence in the back of the room - 6 - 8 uniformed officers. Who stood there in the back, leaning against the walls, doing NOTHING.

The co-president of the Santa Monica Dems was one of many attempting to keep the peace, at one point taking the microphone onstage to warn the trumpsters to be polite and considerate and stop heckling or they would be removed. Unfortunately, that never happened. There were NO consequences for this frankly shitty, antisocial, and disgracefully intolerant behavior. All warnings and appeals for civility were useless and completely ignored.

Afterwards, I spoke to a couple of the officers in the back, asking them why they provided no help or crowd control. The answer was -
1) there was no crime committed (well, I felt that the reprehensible behavior I witnessed WAS criminal, but what do I know? I sure didn't raise MY kids to act out like that!);
and 2) this was a public meeting place and they had a right to be there and First Amendment and blah-blah-blah.

Some of US on Thursday night also had OUR cell phones out and were also taking pictures and video, myself included. I'm keeping those photos in case any of these individuals has to be identified later.

THE REASON I'M WRITING THIS:
An activist colleague of mine reported that the same disruptive mess happened to a meeting he attended of the Mar Vista Community Council on July 11th. Another group of pro-trump aggressors, equally loud, nasty, rude, hostile, and disgraceful. Pretty much hijacked THEIR meeting, too.

I was surprised to hear this and immediately became suspicious. I am now wondering if this is a new "thing." Since our general meetings are posted and announced in public, I'm wondering if this is a new tactic by trump-supporters to find, enter, and then disrupt legitimate meetings of Democratic groups. Maybe I'm just over-anxious. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions. But since I've learned there were TWO of these travesties within a mere nine days of each other, I'm starting to wonder if the bad guys are starting to keep track, and attack.

Actually, come to think of it, make that THREE. A couple of months ago, I participated in a protest exposing the actual address and location of Breitbart.com. We were outside the building where Breitbart has maintained its national headquarters under-the-radar for years now. They are not listed on the legend of offices and companies in the building's lobby. Sure enough, across the street, there soon appeared a small group of trumpsters, trying to heckle and outshout us, and they had a megaphone with them. There were no confrontations there, since police officers on hand made sure the disruptors stayed on their side of the street and did not come over to our side to interfere. That bunch was not quite so aggressively in-yer-face, perhaps as a result of that forcible sequestration.

I'm wondering if we face increasing confrontations like this, as their side grows more frustrated, desperate, and angry, and wishes to act out and disrupt the work our side is doing, and the accomplishments we've achieved so far.

My apologies for the length of this email. But I wanted to bring this to your attention as Democratic group leaders here on the Westside. Seems like something for which it might be worth keeping an eye peeled. And I wanted this in writing so you have it for the record.

Thanks for hearing me out.

I'd appreciate your thoughts. And MORE: I'd appreciate any eye-witness or anecdotal testimony about anything like this happening on YOUR home turf. I'm trying to figure out whether this is, or is becoming, "A THING." And if so, what we should do about it (like maybe holding our meetings in private, so that nogoodniks from the outside, hellbent on disrupting and causing trouble and frustrating our work, CANNOT barge in and stir shit up.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. This is not new-- back in the glory days of the Tea Party they regularly...

disrupted our meetings and our Democratic rep's speeches and debates.

That was four years ago, and while they lay low for for a while, I'm pretty sure it was only because they were lazy. They may have new energy now.

I say they were lazy because a lot of them signed up as poll watchers, but when they found out what poll watchers were supposed to do, they walked out.

[mr_lebowski]

37. Likely when they found they couldn't show up with their AR-15's on proud display, they lost interest

[Maraya1969]

64. I'm jumping in here to ask people to call the local news to cover

these kinds of things. Also, of course use your phones to video. Mostly try and get the local news involved. We want other people to see what type of bullying, violent and obstructive people these are.

Get it out there for all to see.

[calimary]

2. I'm kicking this.

If it ISN'T happening in your district, or isn't happening YET - I'd gently urge that you keep your eyes wide open, and keep track. And be on the alert.

My only regret that night was that it didn't occur to me to go back over to that "non-members sign-in" table, and take a look - or maybe take a photo - of the names and emails filled out.

Might be interesting to have that on record, or to see if they're phony emails or something.

I want to know if this is some sort of coordinated campaign to disrupt. And I think the best weapon against it is, first, TO KNOW ABOUT IT. Realize that, yes, it IS "a thing." Realize that it IS happening and that this IS a battle tactic.

Or if it's an isolated incident - uh - correction - THREE incidents. Just that I'VE seen or heard about. With the three I mentioned, I witnessed it happening, personally, cuz I was there.

[MagickMuffin]

67. Could you ask the Democratic Party to see the list?

Perhaps a little sleuthing is needed and you're willing to track down their info!

[certainot]

98. may be getting announced on local talk radio stations like the

teabag stuff was.

dem response should be to start addressing the talk radio problem.

when addressing these people reference limbaugh - if they yell out a talking point of lie start with "that's what limbaugh says, but..."

if those local blowhards are suggesting these tactics they need to be protested, local advertisers need to be thanked for trump, racism, etc., and the universities and pro teams that broadcast sports on them need to be protested.

those stations and universities need to be protested anyway. those teabags are living in an alternate reality and they believe it because they hear it repeated without challenge.

[C_U_L8R]

3. Brownshirts.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. Yep. My thoughts exactly.

Very very common at meetings, be they Dem, or striking workers, or legislative hearings big and small.
they are trying to provoke a physical fight.

Dems groups need to be prepared, and consider approp. responses.

[sfwriter]

33. What is the right response?

They are brownshirts to be sure.

[pnwmom]

4. Thanks for sharing this, calimary!

[BigmanPigman]

5. I noticed a similar and sudden change during the various anti tRump marches I've attended.

In June there were about 20 pro-45 people but they stayed on the other side of the road. In July there were a lot more and they were aggressive, incited violence, interuped speakers with horns and sirens, etc. The assembly speaker had to call the chief of police to get the cops to stop standing around watching and start separating us. They wore helmets, tons of flags, of course, and were called The Proud Boys who came down from LA to San Diego for our rally. They think they own the flag so we always try to "out-flag" them, sometimes upside down as a sign of distress for our country.

[MarvinGardens]

65. Proud Boys are alt-right, openly racist. (nt)

[Iliyah]

6. Not yet, South Bay area . . Congressman Ted Lieu (Torrance) and

where the surrounding cities are pretty tight.

The bots are everywhere!

[StrictlyRockers]

7. I'll be vigilant.

Democracy must triumph over fascism.

[oxbow]

8. Seems unfair that cheeto jesus can kick out protesters at will...

..but you have to put up with such ugly behavior. There has to be a way to remove or isolate blatant disrupters. They are actually obstructing free speech through these disruptions.

[barbtries]

20. i agree.

Can't you begin the meeting by saying anyone who is disruptive will be asked to leave and removed if necessary. Someone maybe should get together with a community person at the police station to ensure that the police will remove these people. This is uncivilized behavior and a abuse of the first amendment.

sounds like the police at the meeting are all republicans.

[magicarpet]

49. Find a meeting place to gather where you pay a nominal fee to "rent" the meeting place.

Because of the fee it is now a quasi-public venue ~ you now have the right to toss out disruptors. With the power of the police to enforce your disruptor exit strategy.

That is how trump does it.

I am not a lawyer - one should be contacted - because I am sure as 2018 & 2020 approaches these brown shirt disruptors will metastasize and multiply exponentially.

These Fascist Nazis have no intent or desire to give up one iota of power they stole and accumulated.

[Ilsa]

9. Fucking cockroach Brownshirts.

Exactly like the nazis.

[ghostsinthemachine]

10. But, we do EXACTLY, the same thing

At Town Halls, in the Halls of Congress, at Republican events. I've been there and seen representatives get shouted down by opposition. It's not illegal, rude as hell, but not illegal.
What they are looking for is the same media coverage that McClintock's town hall got.
What needs to happen is that the photos need to be publicized, compared, so we can call them out for paid protestors. If the same bunch shows up in LA, then in Sacramento, we can use that.
Count on this becoming the norm once they get their troops in line.

[58Sunliner]

15. Not for the same factual reasons.

And we often get thrown out.

[calimary]

19. True. And what occurred to me as well was - THIS is the side of the aisle where they love guns.

THEIRS is the side of the aisle that is plenty okay with as much reckless, wanton, unfettered (and certainly unregulated) access to any kind of GD guns they feel like getting their grubby paws on. THEIRS is the side of the aisle where the militant gun-lovers are, much moreso than on our side of the aisle. I only today started wondering - were some of these folks armed? The men wearing suit jackets maybe? The women with big purses? The guy with the backpack? And a couple of 'em certainly seemed willing to provoke things enough that something physical could easily have resulted - which they would have LOVED.

I'm also the first to say I may be thinking too far outside the box into nutcase land. But then again, some of these folks behaved like nut cases.

I just think it's important to be watchful. Spread the word. Be ready for it - and take pictures and document it as soon afterwards as possible because you'll remember more if you make a note of it sooner. It would be interesting, to me at least, if more of these incidents start happening at other local Dem gatherings I attend, and I spotted some of the same people.

[magicarpet]

60. There should be a centralized area where each/every/all....

Of these political events CRASHED by these brown shirt Fascist political distruptors can be fully recorded and publicly accessed at a specific area of Democratic Underground.

A detailed record of the event
Date/location
Photos of brown-shirt disruptors
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Save to a DU file or forum or some common area. Just add to it and add to it as these events of brown shirt disruption occur.

[calimary]

110. That's why I originally wrote this up and sent it around to local Dem group leaders I know.

Reaction and response I've received has been all positive, and appreciative.

As Mad-Eye Moody warned Harry Potter: "You've GOT to KNOW!"
That was one of two advice gems he gave Harry Potter. The other one was "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!!!!!!"

[Steven Maurer]

21. Hell, we even do this to OURSELVES

The kook-left trying to shut down Democrats, making it impossible to hear, etc.

The only thing you can do about this is to rent a private venue and kick the disruptors off the property for trespassing.

Kind of what happened on the DU, actually.

[Boomer]

61. Thank you!

This is exactly why disruptive behavior is a double-edged sword. Both sides feel justified, both sides are fighting for some perceived imperative. We should support civil discourse for our own sake, because if we don't, the disruptions will be used against us too.

[madokie]

11. The teabaggers in disguise

maybe not even in disguise but the same stinking assholes nevertheless

[yuiyoshida]

13. K&R and Tweeted

n/t

[mountain grammy]

14. And the police stood there and did nothing..

Wonder who they would have arrested if the trumpers became violent and and fights started?

[GulfCoast66]

81. Public library??

Little thing called the 1st Amendment.

Baggers are covered by it too.

[mountain grammy]

83. No, I disagree. It's a meeting with speakers and a decorum is expected.

No, this was disruption of a meeting and the police should have asked the disrupters to be quiet or leave. I go to public meetings in public places. I'm on the board of a special district and we have public meetings. Decorum is expected.

The speakers have a first amendment right to speak as well.

[GulfCoast66]

84. I like decorum as well

And the board meeting of a special district is a government function and can enforce rules of behavior. But a public meeting in a public place cannot.

When protesters shut down speakers on college campuses there's not much that can be done. And that is normally people on the left. Just like the folks raising hell at Republican congressman's town hall meetings. Should the police kick them out?

[mountain grammy]

85. Yes they should.

[diverdownjt]

93. Problem there granny is that...

The police agree with the protesters and are very unlikely to do anything about it.
They probably know in advance who these jerks are and are not there to help you
but to help the disruptors. Very cynical I know...but look where we are now.

[mountain grammy]

95. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Very cynical, but I'm there too. I think if this was a conservative meeting, protestors would be ushered out for the same behavior.

[dflprincess]

88. The public libraries in my area also have rooms groups can reserve for meetings

and, if we choose, we can close those meetings to everyone but members of the group. As a rule that has not happened with DFL meetings but there have been a few times, depending on what party business was being discussed, that non-members were asked to leave (including known DFLers who are not members.)

[Sunlei]

16. lets see pictures of these people. Hopefully we can we can place names with faces & know what

'organized' group they are with.

Once the group is known, elected officials can not allow some 'media' groups at their event.

Announce in advance, on the programs- police will escort disrupters out immediately.

[58Sunliner]

17. Sorry-I know that's ugly. I would complain to the city council and chief of police.

[demigoddess]

18. that's their tactic.

look for it to happen all over.

[calimary]

35. That's why I posted this.

I don't know if it's "a thing" or not. But having it happen three times that I know if, in the same basic Westside area, and I've personally been AT two of them when this shit happened, gotta say I'm starting to wonder if these are dots waiting to be connected. I'm predisposed, by now, automatically to suspect the worst of that side of the aisle. The behavior, observed over many many many moons (I'm in my mid-60s now), convincingly indicates to me that there is a serious deterioration in the Republican Party of, say, Eisenhower, or Nelson Rockefeller, or Good Grief, even by now a Mitt Romney, or Charlie Crist who mellowed so much he switched to being a Democrat. What we see now is a widespread embrace of something that, decades ago, NO ONE ANYWHERE would have expected to see from any Republican who drew breath: The Russians.

NEVER IN MY LIFETIME have I seen such a radical and abrupt reversal of LONG-standing tradition and even a bedrock belief. A belief so fundamental that it was way down deep in the bone marrow of the Republican body politic. NEVER would being in bed with the Russians for ANY reason, much less to get yourself elected, be tolerated - or even thinkable. No one would even think of such a sin. A mortal sin, for those who want to give it a ranking in order of magnitude. And the whole frickin' PARTY is in on it either actively or passively, either quiet, mumbling multiplying misgivings into somebody's ear in the cloakroom, OR full-on glaringly OUT in public on "Meet the Press" or "Face the Nation" on Sunday freakin' morning.

I NEVER would have called this one. NEVER would have expected it. NOBODY hated them dang Russkies like a Republican. They'd use it as an insult with which to attack you if they thought you were "soft on Communism" or "Socialist" or some other ridiculous assertion. "Better dead than Red" comes to mind. And "leftist" was as good as "Leninist" or "Stalinist." Synonymous, as a matter of fact. But now? Hell's Bells, it's gone 180-degrees around. Or spun like a top, finally to come to rest at 180-degrees opposite where they were.

Sheesh.

Well, just be observant. Be aware. Be watchful. Know what they're capable of.

Just know it just might be A Thing.

[magicarpet]

68. The forces that drive the change...to QUASI FASCISM

Raw naked lust to gain power

Raw naked lust for avarice & greed & gluttony.

Decades of sophisticated perception management of the general population, advanced techniques of military inspired brainwashing, subtle delivery of propaganda by the ultra Conservative Right-Wing media infrastructure to include radio, television, cable, houses of Ultra-Orthodox Fundamentalist religion, RW Internet, RW publishing houses, RW universities, RW think tanks & foundations.

[calimary]

109. Yep. THIS.

They've been working on it since the 1970s.

And they were fortunate enough to receive a free, and detailed, blueprint for what to do - thanks to Lewis Powell's responding to friends of his in the business community, who didn't like all the social change and positive evolution in civil rights that had been sparked by the 60s. They found all that forward movement MOST disagreeable, and threatening, and they wanted to figure out a way to stop it. Lewis Powell showed them how:

The Powell Memo was first published August 23, 1971
Introduction

In 1971, Lewis Powell, then a corporate lawyer and member of the boards of 11 corporations, wrote a memo to his friend Eugene Sydnor, Jr., the Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The memorandum was dated August 23, 1971, two months prior to Powell’s nomination by President Nixon to the U.S. Supreme Court.
The Powell Memo did not become available to the public until long after his confirmation to the Court. It was leaked to Jack Anderson, a liberal syndicated columnist, who stirred interest in the document when he cited it as reason to doubt Powell’s legal objectivity. Anderson cautioned that Powell “might use his position on the Supreme Court to put his ideas into practice…in behalf of business interests.”
Though Powell’s memo was not the sole influence, the Chamber and corporate activists took his advice to heart and began building a powerful array of institutions designed to shift public attitudes and beliefs over the course of years and decades. The memo influenced or inspired the creation of the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Cato Institute, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Accuracy in Academe, and other powerful organizations. Their long-term focus began paying off handsomely in the 1980s, in coordination with the Reagan Administration’s “hands-off business” philosophy.
Most notable about these institutions was their focus on education, shifting values, and movement-building — a focus we share, though often with sharply contrasting goals.* (See our endnote for more on this.)
So did Powell’s political views influence his judicial decisions? The evidence is mixed. Powell did embrace expansion of corporate privilege and wrote the majority opinion in First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti, a 1978 decision that effectively invented a First Amendment “right” for corporations to influence ballot questions. On social issues, he was a moderate, whose votes often surprised his backers.

(snip)

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/

[SharonClark]

80. Yes, it's "a thing" and you've received excellent responses from people who have explained that it

could be an organized group of right-wing provocateurs. That has been widely reported before.

[nini]

22. Can they get away with this on private property?

Maybe those meetings are going to have to be held in private locations - and I mean not govt owned like a library. That way there would be a legal right to have them removed?

[TryLogic]

39. Good idea

[calimary]

41. That's the conclusion I finally came to, after talking to the cops afterwards.

I dunno - maybe their presence DID help a little, at least afterwards, when everybody on any side of the argument seemed conscious of behaving themselves. It was almost like "well, folks, show's over." People were chit-chatting amongst themselves, clustered in groups, outside in the open patio-like area. The hecklers were having what looked almost like a post-event compare-notes type thing, and a few others, members no doubt, were sharing their sense of shock and disgust.

I was told repeatedly, including by two of the cops, that this was public property since it was the Santa Monica Main Library. I guess the answer, for anybody wanting to take precautions, would be holding meetings on/in private property. Maybe that's overkill at this presumably early stage. But hopefully more of us build more of an awareness of what CAN happen.

[nini]

73. It sucks private space is going to have to be secured but ..

.. it'll be the way unfortunately.

Maybe local union halls can be rented for such things. There's a lot of them down here in the harbor area of L.A. Those guys won't be having those idiots around those halls.

[RandomAccess]

89. Did you or anyone by chance ask why the cops were there?

Are they normally at your events? Or library events?

My concern is that they were part of the group. Too many people don't know or forget that the FBI long ago (2006) pointed out that white supremacists are infiltrating local law enforcement groups.

http://thegrio.com/2015/05/12/fbi-white-supremacists-law-enforcement/

That defense of the thugs was pretty robust.

All the rightwing brownshirts and that includes Trump and advisors like Bannon would LOVE to force the left into violence. And most of them are literally itching for violence they can participate in.

[calimary]

108. Welcome to DU, RandomAccess!

Good point.

I didn't know why they were there, or who called them.

And now I'm wondering if the bad guys did. Because the BEHAVIOR I saw from the hecklers was definitely confrontational. They were spoiling for a fight. They seemed to be trying to goad people into reacting or responding in some sort of physical way so they could raise hell and cry victim and whine about how much more aggrieved they are. They sure had their camera phones ready.

I noticed that one guy who got up from the front section and moved over to an elevated aisle on the side (sort of an access path to the stage), had his "Build the Wall" sign with him, and he was leaning against the railing and shouting abuse at the speakers, interrupting with nastiness. A couple of people who I think were members of the Dem club stood in front of him, below the railing, and one of the men turned to ask him to dial it back, and they got into an argument. And the bully was leaning in, aggressively, trying to adopt an actual, physical in-yer-face position. He was goading the other man. Just almost begging to be punched in the jaw. The other man didn't take the bait. Finally just turned around and faced front again, but stood his ground.

And as the bully tried, verbally, to turn up the heat with the other man, I noticed that some of the bully's pals back in their seats started standing up or leaning over in that direction, arms up, camera-phones activated. This happened several times. It felt as though they were almost literally BEGGING for a physical confrontation, so they could record it all and make US look bad.

It was SHITTY. And THEY were shitty.

Sorry about the edits - but for those there that night (on OUR side - the "well, in fairness..." apologists), as well as others of like mind, let me say - okay, Democrats and progressive and liberals also get upset at these things. And WE are showing our strength at these town halls. But NEVER - NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER have I seen ANY of these episodes deteriorating like the one I experienced last Thursday.

I've said this before and I'll point it out again: WE'RE not the ones who respond with fists. WE'RE not the ones brandishing guns, or menacing others with the guns we brought or are swaggering around showing off from our little six-year-old's-cowboy-costume holsters. WE'RE not the ones who surround someone and spit insults and fightin' words and other provocative verbal assaults at someone's face, and make like we want to get into a fist-fight. WE'RE not that. THAT'S NOT WHO WE ARE!!! Most of the time, the worst and most "violent" we get - is chaining ourselves to trees, or to chain link fences at nuclear weapons facilities. I even saw one guy who laid himself down on a railroad track in front of a train carrying components for one of those nuclear weapons plants. The train hit him and I believe he died. And of course four students protesting the war at Kent State were shot and killed by National Guard troops - for doing nothing more hostile or anti-social or violent than standing there, protesting - or later on, trying to run away from the gunfire.

Let me also remind: the ONLY time I EVER saw a protest turn physical - that involved anybody from OUR side, it was at a trump rally in Chicago during primary season and a bunch of trump thugs got into it with some Bernie supporters. The trump thugs were the instigators. THEY were the ones at fault. And they tried to stir things up with some Bernie supporters who were evidently part of a MoveOn.org-coordinated protest in the same arena. The Bernie people did not incite the violence. The Bernie people didn't start the flying fists business. The Bernie people weren't the aggressors. And from the footage I saw, the Bernie people were responding defensively only. They were all ejected, I think. But the ones at fault were the trump people.

[RandomAccess]

114. Or as I like to put it --

The Left is notoriously non-violent.

Personally, I think there's a very strong possibility the cops were aligned with your protesters in spirit if not in fact. How is their civil rights record in general?

If I were in your organization, I'd be inquiring of the command just how they got there. I'd probably do it as a private citizen who attended -- "I was at this function .... and was surprised to see police there - is that normal? Do they always attend library events of civic groups? ... (depending on how the conversation goes: ) In case I want to have them at my next civic group meeting, who do I contact to arrange for them to be there? ... (also depending on how the conversation goes: ) I was also surprised that there were some disruptors there and they weren't very interested in asking them to behave."

You know, a "just curious" information-gathering sort of conversation, not official.

Hey, thanks for the welcome!

[icymist]

23. Separate the members from non-members.

People who pay their dues should be sitting up front anyway.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Real Life Trolls. Little different from the trolls encountered here on DU every day.

Thanks for posting!

[Kathy M]

25. Free speech ..... unless of course you could always have a closed meeting

kinda like this forum ....... Where other points of view are not accepted .

[SharonClark]

79. This is a democratic forum for Democrats.

What 'point of view' is not allowed here?

[GulfCoast66]

82. Uh...non democratic ones???

DU tells us up front that there is no freedom of speech here. That's why we are here.

[Kathy M]

107. agree there s no freedom of speech .... not exactly what I signed up for last fall . If that

particular wording of no free speech is in rules , guess I missed it . I do not give a shit anymore to check rules ....

Do not worry I wont let the door hit me on my way out .......

I do hope at least this place will allow constructive criticism next time there are elections ........

[drray23]

26. they would get kicked out of my meeting in a minute.

I would just call the local sheriff who would eject them. We have meetings in the county building and since we book the room, we control who can come in. If some people are disruptive we can eject them

[AJT]

27. Make it members and members guests only. If this is a dem meeting

then don't make it a public meeting.

[maxrandb]

28. I'm sorry to say

But cellphones or not... these folks need their asses beat.

Being nice does not work. In fact, I think kicking their asses on film is good for a 4-5 point pop in Democrats popularity numbers

[SharonClark]

78. I hope you are being sarcastic.

[47of74]

97. I don't

"I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matt 10:34)

[maxrandb]

105. Hard to say

8 or 9 months ago, or a few years ago, I would have said that with "dripping sarcasm"

Since then, I've seen deplorable pieces of shit rewarded over and over again with political power for their deplorable behavior.

I've seen disgusting behavior rewarded. I've seen evil triumph over good. I've seen sane win victory over reason. I've seen lies win over truth.

I've seen outright bigots, racist and frauds appointed to the highest levels of power in our government.

I've seen crazy "one-riff" no talent jackasses who shit their pants to avoid military service, and said they wanted to "shove an oozy up Hillary's cunt and pull the trigger" (actual quote) be warmly welcomed into the White House.

I've seen the family of the President use their position to enrich themselves.

I've seen all that and more, with a Congress that enables...no..."assists" in their destruction of our democracy.

So, no, I'm not sure my statement is sarcastic...

[judesedit]

29. Honestly we have been interrupting their townhalls also.We're just not as rude and ignorant of other

people's feelings. We're much more polite. Maybe we should try their method. Something to think about. Nice doesn't work with those sheeple.

[nikibatts]

30. Also beware of the imbeds.

We keep our meeting times and places to mostly our mailing lists.

[SWBTATTReg]

31. Just shout over them, LOCK HIM UP!! LOCK HIM UP! etc.

We'll have more anti-TRUMP folks in the meetings than these pro-trump idiots. I'd just start shouting 'LOCK HIM UP', 'LOCK HIM UP' etc. until they shut up, or are ushered out of the meeting for being disruptive.

It's unfortunate that they are disrupting our lawful assemblies for the rest of us, but we need to get them out of our meetings if they aren't going to be peaceful (they are intruding on our rights as citizens to free speech).

We can also retaliate too, by doing the exact thing to them too. Works both ways, and there's more of us.

[calimary]

45. Welcome to DU, SWBTATTReg!

Now that would have been good. "LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!"

Taking a page from their book? Well, all's fair in love and war, as the cliche teaches. But, this is war. Certainly can be thought of, that way. That's probably the way the other side views it and how they react accordingly. Maybe that's the only way to beat these guys?

What's great about all this is - we're all talking about it. It IS "a thing." And if we're talking about it, we're thinking about it and forming impressions and opinions about it, and possibly even considering responses, reactions, defenses, counter-strategies. There are two kinds of approaches. Active and passive. I'd prefer the passive approach, for now, anyway. Move meetings to private property. Only share or promote them in "secret" or private groups and email chains that only the membership receives. Keeps the bad guys away, or at least thwarts one of their strategies. AND, it's less likely they'll know what we're up to, where, or how frequently.

I WAS going to say "knowledge is power" and the less the bad guys have, the better, but with THIS bunch, they can sure make a world-class mess with as little knowledge as possible.

[lambchopp59]

100. Caution advised. Better to maintain the calm, rational stance and keep video recording running.

Give racist, bigoted goons enough rope and exposure and they'll hang themselves.
President Obama responded to public insults with calm demeanor, allowed the children to tantrum.
The goons, empowered by Trumpism for now will get louder and likely escalate into violence. Abhorrent as that is, nothing brings the news cameras and forces even co-opted law enforcement to act.
Yes it is war. And there may be blood spilled as their leader self-destructs.
But allow the penchant for violence be their Achilles heel in this.
Calimary, I'd like a look at some of the law enforcement officers that show up as well. This is a primary danger needs exposure.
I know of some whose primary motivator as so-cal cop-wannabee's back in my college and ambulance service days, was racist.

[Bengus81]

70. Yeah or... JAIL TO THE CHIEF....JAIL TO THE CHIEF n/t

[lambchopp59]

99. Caution advised. Better to maintain the calm, rational stance and keep video recording running.

Give racist, bigoted goons enough rope and exposure and they'll hang themselves.
President Obama responded to public insults with calm demeanor, allowed the child to tantrum.
The goons, empowered by Trumpism for now will get louder and likely escalate into violence. Abhorrent as that is, nothing brings the news cameras and forces even co-opted law enforcement to act.
Yes it is war. And there may be blood spilled as their leader self-destructs.
But allow the penchant for violence be their Achilles heel in this.
Calimary, I'd like a look at some of the law enforcement officers that show up as well. This is a primary danger needs exposure.
I know of some whose primary motivator as so-cal cop-wannabee's back in my college and ambulance service days, was racist.

[Me.]

32. Santa Monica???????????

Wow

[calimary]

46. Yep.

Even in the enclave once nicknamed "The People's Republic of Santa Monica."

[jpak]

34. Follow them to their cars - get their license plate numbers

Last edited Sun Jul 23, 2017, 08:14 PM - Edit history (1)

[TryLogic]

40. Might be wise to do this.

[seta1950]

36. Hello

The same thing happened when Rep. Schiff was speaking, at Caltech about climate change , there were 2 people who tried to distrupt everything , one of them was wearing a dt hat and tshirt and carried the flag on his shoulders. They were not able to do much as caltech security was strong. I also saw the flag bearing person on television at other town halls.

[calimary]

47. Welcome to DU, seta1950!

AHA. When was this? I LOVE Congressman Schiff!

Was the flag-bearing person at other town halls around SoCal? Local coverage? Or, did he travel to Arizona? Or NorCal? San Diego or Orange County? Or Vegas or something? Granted, I'm not up on all the town halls and when or where they're scheduled. It's enough to keep track of my favorite activist groups these days! It'd be interesting to know, though.

[katmondoo]

96. They wil all have to change their flag to the Russian Flag

that is where their allegiance lies today

[heaven05]

38. trumpbrownshirts

simple as that...prewar 1933-39 germany...same exact scenario....small groups grew into large groups and then their hitler had complete control of a cowed anti-hitler population....we MUST protect our turf and cut off the heads of the HYDRA. Throw them out of meetings, shout them down, cuss and be threatening toward them....fight back!!!!!!!!

[magicarpet]

42. Do not feel any need to be apologetic for mentioning this...

DU is an excellent resource/place to use as a sounding board to voice these types of observations, concerns, and complaints.

One way to head off and nip these things in the bud is to have an early warning system in place as here. Where eyes upon the landscape and ears on the ground forewarn about potential impeding problems coming your way ~ permitting the advantage of an early warning. If unrecognized, unattended, and not rapidly dealt with these types of disruptions could easily mushroom and spiral out of any hopes to control.

Again thank you for the early warning. THX for taking the considerable time from your schedule to record and then document this.. and then sharing the information with us.

As Demos we are inclined to expect a fair and clean political contest ~ our nature is to live and let live ~ a Golden Rule mind set sort of approach.

On the other hand our political opponents are the down and dirty mud fight type of political adversaries. Team trump is a very different and more dangerous sort of breed. Think adamant, think vehemence, think vindictive, add to the mix intense hatred, disgust, decimate, destroy, and defile. These are the terminologies they use and come to their minds when thoughts of Liberals ~ Progressives ~ Democrats ~ Moderates and when dealing with people of differing political persuasion not exactly and precisely like theirs. They want us gone, they want us annihilated,. They want us disappeared by the quickest means possible. They want us permanently wiped from the political landscape so they don't ever have to put up with, forced to tolerate, or deal with us again.

As we prepare to defend American Democracy at the ballot box in preparation for 2018 & 2020 expect them to wage a nasty, ugly, and likely dangerous fight.

They intend to hold the gains that have thus far been realized by their political side, while refusing the give up one nano-inch of the power they grabbed, robbed, and stole.with astounding impunity.

As we nibble around the edges and seek to de-throne their Orange One ~ King Don the Mafioso Emperor~ expect hellaciously filthy, vile, and disgusting political warfare of the kind we have likely never witnessed before.

As we prepare and maneuver to seize and take back this country from the hands of these buffoons and idiots don't for one second think it will be pretty or a leisurely walk in the park.

We have all heard the clique "You watch my back.... I've got yours" this maybe we'll become a more common refrain as we go about our day to day business in the political arenas toward 2018 & 2020.

So issuing a notice to be alert and forewarned of possible impending danger coming your way ~ should be absent the requirement for you to apologize in any form. But rather appreciation should come your way.

Again thank you for the warning ~ if the occasion should arise I promise to return the courtesy back your way.

As we traverse this political obstacle course riddled with the mayhem and chaos of d trump and his minions ~ we come under the obligation and necessity to keep an eye out for each other too.

[calimary]

52. I share every word of your view here.

Last edited Tue Jul 25, 2017, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)

And I'm not happy that I've come to regard the opposition that way. I DO want to just live and let live. But this is NOT good. And these perpetrators are not good. And they play rough. As I mentioned somewhere here - I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the hecklers was armed. That side of the aisle seems hellbent on shoving their gun ownership in everyone else's faces, along with all their other completely cockeyed, unrealistic, small-minded, selfish, angry, resentful, and increasingly mean-spirited ideas.

It's like their anger has boiled over. They HATED that there was a black guy in the Oval Office and he wasn't the janitor. They HATED that gay relationships could be elevated to the same status as straight relationships. They HATED the very idea of uppity women. They HATED that brown people could get into their schools and have a stake in the community and be able to vote when "rightfully" they should be out picking strawberries and washing dishes in the back of the restaurant kitchen. They HATED that somebody would be allowed to worship in other ways, or speak another language as a mother tongue, or not look the same, or Heaven Forbid need anything (like decent affordable health care or decent affordable schools or decent affordable housing or decent affordable ANYTHING).

It is actually frightening to me, sometimes, to see the steady deterioration of our social framework, the steady unraveling of the tapestry we've always known as America - how many people seem hellbent on pulling every stray thread they find, and picking open any stray scab they see. I'm NOT one of those so angry that damn-the-torpedoes, we're so angry and aggrieved that we're just gonna blow everything up! Having lived in Tornado Country, AND Earthquake Country too, I can attest to the "wonderfulness" and "bliss" and "freedom-freedom" and "enviably heavenly" experiences that arise from having to try to fucking LIVE and COPE and take care of the kids and find some food and/or dry clothing and/or medicine and/or medical assistance and/or ANY kind of safety or shelter or sense of security - after everything's been "blown up." It ISN'T very pretty. And it SURE AS HELL isn't a desirable condition, result, or outcome.

[SWBTATTReg]

101. Well spoken. Amen.

[Honeycombe8]

43. Yes, it probably is a "thing." (No, protesting & disrupting is not criminal.)

To be fair, both major parties' members do this sort of thing. Disrupting a meeting & interfering w/someone else's right to speak is wrong, no matter who does it. But there's not much to be done, if you don't have security (your OWN security) to "escort" them out. You either do that, or shut down the meeting.

The police are there to intervene if there's physical violence or threats.

When candidates like Trump have disrupters "escorted" out, those are HIS security, not police.

[Butterflylady]

44. Please,

be very careful and remember that these people are his most ardent supporters which places them as the most mentally unstable. I must say that you have gotten a lot of well thought out suggestions as how to handle future meetings.

[calimary]

55. Welcome to DU, Butterflylady!

Yet another reason why I decided to share this! And I want people to know that this is happening - at least in my own little corner of the world. And if it's happening here, wonder if maybe it's happening in somebody else's little corner of the world? Probably better they know about it. Forewarned IS forearmed.

And I bet NOBODY in the local activist circles wherein I find myself on a regular basis ever even fleetingly thought there'd ever be anything like this to worry about. Especially in our VERY blue part of the country. Naah, can't happen here. Well, think again. It does, and it has. And I bet everybody locally, to whom I emailed this, now has it in the back of his/her mind. I certainly hope so. We need to be prepared. To anticipate, out-strategize, out-wit, and out-flank these people. And thwart their agenda as well as their battle tactics.

[msongs]

48. seems like if one is paying for the meeting hall one can decide who stays or goes.

if one is ruled out of order one can be evicted from the meeting. let em video all they want. follow and get license plates is a good idea. if police do nothing they should not be paid.

[mopinko]

50. party meetings are not the same as town halls. at all.

yes, we are showing up and making noise at town halls. this is appropriate when we are talking about an official event to hold electeds accountable.

but a gathering of the party? oh hell no.
kick their asses out. you booked the room. it's not a public place any more.
as a direct tactic, tho, make non-members sign in and SHOW THEIR ID. take their address, and anything else off that id.
hell, take their picture.

if that doesnt deter them, throw them out for disrupting the meeting. completely within your right.
COMPLETELY.

if the cops on duty wont do it, tell them to get their sergeant in there.
and get someone from the library to explain that it is your room.

FUCK THIS NOISE.
HELL NO.

[calimary]

56. THIS is a good idea. Make 'em show ID, and take down the info.

GREAT idea.

[mopinko]

58. i'd be sneaky about it too. let them sign in, then make the show id.

dont match? you gone.

[raccoon]

76. Great idea. Nt

[Kathy M]

106. Kinda like voting ......

[Atticus]

51. A modest proposal:

Although laws vary from state to state, if you meet in a room which you have rented (even for a dollar), the venue is no longer "public" and you have the right to exclude trolls or evict them. Best to have something in writing to prove rental. Most local police will assist if there are people who refuse to leave or breach the peace.

[calimary]

57. ANOTHER excellent idea!

I'm now wondering seriously if it makes a difference that you paid to book the room. Or, if not, that you're a dues-paying member of the group whose event was disrupted. What kind of legal standing there is. Sounds like something to ask about.

[mackdaddy]

53. I think there is a difference between a truly public event and a privately sponsored event.

Things like congressman forums are truly open to the public and have somewhat different freedom of speech rules, but even those have some level of disruptive conduct rules where people can be ejected.

But most of Trump's rallies are actually political fund-raising events and are therefore "private" events which is why they can so easily eject dissidents.

So if you have a democratic party organizing meeting, the it is not truly a "public" meeting even if the public were invited. So then I think under those organizing rules it would be easier to eject people disrupting the proceedings, especially if they were not "members". The meeting organizers should also probably have a plan in place including and up front plan with whatever security is there on how to handle these disruptions and different levels of escalation.

Not an easy middle ground to find sometimes between freedom of speech and public disruption.

[mackdaddy]

54. Forgot to mention that "tickets" to these events can also be Contracts on behavior.

If you ever look at any ticket to a theater or even music event you are actually agreeing to a fairly lengthy contract which can include revoking your right to be there. A sign in sheet can also include this type of "contract" language.

This also makes it easier to quiet, or remove people being too disruptive. And I think it is part of signing up to be at a Trump rally for that matter.

[calimary]

59. THIS! Another good idea.

A sign-in sheet with "contract-type" language - if you enter here, civility is MANDATED.

[magicarpet]

74. A very vibrant and dynamic discussion...

Thx for kicking the door open.
Nice thread.

[rwheeler31]

62. If you are able to take pictures

you can check to see if they are paid staffers of local officials.

[left-of-center2012]

63. They have freedom of speech rights

Last edited Sun Jul 23, 2017, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

It's we Democrats who get arrested protesting the GOP.

Our rights are diminishing.

[mopinko]

86. bullshit.

in the public square, in a meeting called by an elected, sure.
in a meeting of an regional organization, in a room they have booked? oh hell no.

and freedom to keep others from speaking and organizing?
again, hell no.

the 1st amendment applies to the government, not every nook and cranny in the county. like right here where you sign a tos that says you cant be a disruptive asshole.

[left-of-center2012]

90. I guess you missed my sarcasm

I'll have to remember to post the 'sarcasm' smilie in the future.

[Jake Stern]

66. Stick with private venues

Perhaps rent the banquet hall of a local restaurant.

[DFW]

69. Welcome to Germany, 1931

This is how it starts. THEIR 1st Amendment rights are sacrosanct. Yours are forfeit.

[southerncrone]

71. Another strike against us is that most of the police now are staunchly in the Republican camp.

They are highly politicized in many areas of the country. We may not be able to depend on them to come to our aid in light of that. I would hope that in SoCal it would be better.

[Nay]

102. I can second that, from long association w/cops. They're in the bag for the

far right.

[haele]

115. Nope, too many police have bought into that "respect mah Authoritay" mindset.

It's really easy to be an authoritarian when you are in the position to have a gun and little to no responsibility when you screw up.
In fact, it tends to make most people in that position downright furious when it's suggested that maybe that teaching "overpower and contain" any hint of opposition may not be the most optimal tactic to use at all times, that maybe someone with the firepower to do major damage needs to step back and assess the situation before acting?
Any comment that isn't complementary to policing is now a mortal insult and sign of disrespect to too many people in Law Enforcement.

And before I get jumped on by the usual suspects, I used to have a duty rotation that included (armed) SP in downtown San Diego and Long Beach back in the day. Not as dangerous as Subic or Olongopo, but still - at (then) 23 - 26 years old, 5'7, 150 lbs, - and heels (f'n regulations!)- I still had to deal more than a few people who could have snapped my neck if I said or did the wrong thing at 2am.
And I never, ever felt the urge to pull out my firearm and start shooting at the "Scary Dark Drunk - OMG, it's the Incredible Hulk coming at me to tear my head off".

BTW, this was during the early-mid 80's - the Angel Dust and Coke era. You never knew what you were going to face after the bars closed.

Haele

[southerncrone]

117. Glad you had the wisdom of restraint & made it out alive. I think you are correct in that

the power has gone to so many of their heads. Lack of repercussions insures this will continue. And I feel sure the psyche tests now assist in hiring those in the authoritarian band.

[awesomerwb1]

72. If it had even a few moments to do with immigration

they're probably the same group of people that have been showing up at other meetings to disrupt/shut them down.

I remember watching a video of how these idiots shut down a meeting w/ Lou Correa( plenty of videos online about it) in Santa Ana.

Nasty f*ckers.

[calimary]

112. The president of the Santa Monica Dems and I are now in email conversation about this.

He emailed me with a thank-you for documenting what happened, and evidently brought it up to his board of directors. Said they were now discussing it and brainstorming what to do. He thanked me for the follow-up email I sent him, that included some of the suggestions here.

I asked if there were any attorneys on the board. They could help us determine OUR rights. Like - did we pay to reserve the room? And if so, does that constitute a de facto ownership of that space and thus rendering it private? Or what? Is there a receipt to prove it? Since then, it's been suggested that we book an appointment with the Santa Monica Chief of Police to dig down into this further.

One of his responses noted that this has happened at several events specifically featuring Kevin De Leon, the Assembly President Pro Tem. Unfortunately, I now worry that they feel emboldened. After all their bully is in the White House, and his flying monkeys are all around him, investing the place. And they can of course see that past efforts at aggression and bullying and other anti-social, UN-Christian, and UN-American behavior got them the results they wanted. All-republi-CONS-wall-to-wall in Washington, all the way into the Oval Office.

And NOW I'm wondering if the cops were called - BY THE BAD GUYS, so they'd be on hand to take control if the bad guys managed to provoke something - that their trusty little friends would all be sure to get on video.

[awesomerwb1]

113. Re: your last sentence:

It would not surprise me. They know what they're doing, they know the loopholes). If you watch other videos, you will notice some of the same people in them.

Even the LA Times fell for it (or maybe the writer supports those anti-immigrant hate groups like FAIR, CIS, NUMBERS USA)and posted a video filmed by these guys! They were bragging and laughing about what they'd done in a van after it was all over. (That was the Lou Correa event in Santa Ana).

[marybourg]

75. Back in the day, there always used to be an appointed

position in Dem clubs and union locals called the "serjeant at arms", whose duty it was to keep the peace at meetings.

This was back in a more rough-and-tumble era, where thugs called "goons" regularly attacked union and political meetings. Even more recently, this has been a position at Dem clubs I've belonged to, so that it's clear who is responsible for stopping any conflict, and so that the chairperson does not have that responsibility and can remain at the podium.

I guess this has fallen into disuse in the era of small turnouts at Dem club meetings, but it's clearly time to bring the position back.

[Scruffy1]

77. Get their pictures and license plate numbers.

Be very obvious about photographing them close up. Well, I use a long lens, but the idea is the same. Most of these are paid hacks and they don't want the other dupes to know it so they are paranoid about who they are, Same as Tea Partiers and. I'm not above asking people for their ID, either. It's not illegal to ask and the irony of people who demand drivers licinses to vote won't identify them selves. we recently got a Planned Parenthood protestor arrested for violating a court order barring him from the property. when I"m doing photos I also carry a notebook, and make a good show of writing stuff down.

[dobleremolque]

87. If this becomes A THING as we move into the 2018 election....consider:

1. Renting a private hall, as has been suggested up-thread....and for all the reasons suggested up-thread....
2. Sign-in as has been suggested up-thread, with member/non-member categories and require presentation of a membership card. Print them "per meeting", like admission tickets if you don't issue ID card for your organizational level. Printing's cheap nowadays with laser printers. Or you could require their voter registration ID. Mine has Party, Congressional district, state legislative district, and precinct on it. You could use something like that in the absence of a membership card at the precinct level, say.
3. Charge an admission fee: a small one for members, say $1 and a larger one for non-members at the level which triggers contributor disclosure AND penalties for false information on the contributions disclosure card in your state.

Yes, members have paid dues, but announce that admissions fees go to the [insert local party organization here] general campaign contributions fund.

I suspect the disruptors will choke at the thought of their money going to fund Democratic candidates, as well as risking prosecution for false information on a contributor disclosure form, and hopefully you may have more than a few turn and walk away.

[MrPurple]

91. At Trump rallies, people were thrown out just for wearing an anti Trump t-shirt or a hijab

It sounds like renting a private venue to hold these events would be a solution, and demand the same response from police that Trump got/gets.

These aren't the same as a Congressman's public town hall meeting where anyone from the district has the right to express themselves. This is more like acting out at CPAC - you wouldn't last long protesting in that auditorium.

[jmbar2]

92. Saw the same behavior at Coffee Party civility meetings a few years ago

We kept a set of rules for civil discourse at the front of the room, and every participant was required to sign that they agreed to them as prerequisite for attending the meeting. I cannot remember the specifics, but some of them were
- No interrupting or talking over others
- No shouting or bullying behaviors
- No name calling, ad hominem attacks
- Each member has an allotted time to speak, and then turned over the floor
etc.

We also had a carefully constructed discussion agenda. As I recall, we welcomed them into the room, sat them down and discussed the rules and agenda as we did with everyone else. They were invited warmly to participate in the conversation. Something like, "How to restore civil discourse for democracy". They left quickly when they found no one to fight with.

Thanks for writing this - very important observation!

[Daddio7]

94. Learned from the best

In what way is this different from the shouting protesters at every Republican donor event and town-hall?

[geretogo]

103. Go look at the photos of the brown shirts on the streets of Germany ; Same type people .

[L. Coyote]

104. Always photograph these people.

[Ilsa]

111. I heard this (briefly)

on Thom Hartmann today. The word is getting out.

Can the Party define rules for the meetings, and hand them out to police security and attendees, threatening arrest or removal for disrupting the meeting?

[calimary]

116. Oh really? Thom Hartmann's not on the air here anymore.

I enjoyed listening to his show. What did he say?