Venezuelan Crisis is not as easy..

[busterbrown]

to understand as the Trumpers want you to believe.

Its pretty complicated but one thing is for sure....Current Maduro President has ties with the old Chavez Presidency.
The People loved Chavez... but conservative buisnessmen have been trying to undermine the Leftist Govt for years.
Typical right wing free market proponents.. When Chavez died and Maduro took over the economic situation hit the skids..Why? Because oil is/means.. everything to the Venezuelen economy and Oil has been creashing for the last
couple of years...Obviously the conservative buisness party is using the collapse of economy as a way to make a power grab. And thats exactly what their doing..Meanwhile Trump is playing this as Commie Dictator attacks the people of Venezuela...Of Course its way more than that.

Please read the link.. It’s written by a professional...and it’s not long winded.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/what-the-hell-is-happening-in-venezuela.html

[PoliticAverse]

1. It's pretty easy to understand. Party in power achieves popularity by sharing wealth from large...

community owned resources with people (and not having to raise taxes to do so). Community resources
decline in value and revenue due to world over production and mismanagement of the resources and their
utilization. The only way to continue sharing the wealth without raising taxes greatly is by just issuing more
currency. Issuing more currency reduces its value and results in general price increases. People get upset by
massive inflation disrupting the economy and so party in power imposes prices controls. Price controls lead
to shortages resulting in general misery and curtailment of economic activity due to price instability.

[busterbrown]

2. Exactly why the business class is going after maduro.

Raising Taxes is a sin upon the Lord.... Similar to what repubs believe here.... Don’t forget the hording of resources by the free market businessmen in Venazuela as well... They certainly a big part of the problem..

[COLGATE4]

3. Nowhere near as big as the continuing problem with the kleptocracy

put in place by Chavez and increased by Maduro. Those well-connected to the government have made fortunes by playing currency exchange games as well as siphoning off funds from the national oil conglomerate.

[busterbrown]

6. No mention of the historyof Right Wing Dictatorships ..

which allied itself with Western Plutacracies for years.. Stealing Resources, supporting crooked right wing leaders.
There is a difference between the Right and Left.. You think?

[COLGATE4]

7. Overall, of course there is a difference. But in the specific

instance of Venezuela, you have the worst of so-called 'leftists' robbing the country blind and leaving their countrymen in unvarnished misery.

[busterbrown]

8. Seems to me there was significant progress..

under Chavez.....


https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/oct/04/venezuela-hugo-chavez-election-data

[COLGATE4]

9. Illusory. Chavez drained money from every source, particularly the only

real source of income, Petroleum in order to throw it around in "feel-good" projects designed to create goodwill for Chavez but which were never intended to be sustained (ex. public housing started but never completed) or nationalizing many different aspects of national production while at the same time using the bulk to a) give away free or heavily subsidized petroleum to governments sympathetic to Chavez's international ambitions or b) arm a free-standing militia of Chavez defenders. He spent billions on Russian armaments, much of which was to provide his 'supporters' with AK-47;s. His close friends literally took plane loads of cash out of Venezuela in the first years while he surrendered control of the armed forces to his Cuban 'advisors'. His only goal, much like Trump was to promote Chavez and, so long as Petroleum prices were at $110/barrel he was able to keep juggling the finances. Fortunately for Chavez he died before the shit hit the fan and petroleum cratered. Now that it has, the State Petroleum Company PDVSA is in shambles (he replaced all the competent officers with Chavez supporters) and did away with any investment for future oil exploration. Production is now lower than it ever has been and Venezuela cannot support the billions of dollars in foreign debt incurred by Chavez and Maduro.

[busterbrown]

10. No mention of countrys

condition before Chavez? When did you ever here of a right wing dictator have a concerned for the impoverished.

Realize that Chavez made huge mistakes...But for decades, Right wing so called Presidents (military dictators) of Central and South American Countries gave 2 shits about the impoverished masses..

How come no mention of this data?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/oct/04/venezuela-hugo-chavez-election-data

[COLGATE4]

11. Are you aware that, prior to Chavez Venezuela had a freely and

fairly elected President? Prior to Chavez Venezuela was the 'Mecca' for the rest of Latin America. Millions wanted to live like Venezuelans and hundreds of thousands from neighboring countries emigrated and did so. While it, like all its neighbors had poverty Venezuela's impoverished had substantially better living conditions than in most other countries. Now of course that's all out the window. Venezuela cannot feed itself, produce for itself nor sustain itself economically. Its murder and crime rate make it one of the if not THE most unsafe country in Latin America. Its citizens are overall losing something on the order of 18% of their body weight due to the lack of even basic foodstuffs and their currency is so valueless that it now costs more to print the currency than the value of the highest denomination note. So much for the Chavez/Maduro concern for the 'impoverished masses'...

[busterbrown]

12. Give me a Break..

Last edited Sat Aug 26, 2017, 12:15 PM - Edit history (1)

“ Prior to Chavez...millions wanted to live like Venezuelans”. Are you telling me that things were fine before the election of Chavez? At least it was a start.. You are telling me that things were better when there was Free Market economy in Venezuela.. Give me a fucking break! Your Post sounds like it was pre printed out of advertising agency advocating for Libertertarian Values.. SHAME ON YOU!

[COLGATE4]

14. Please do tell me about all your experience with Venezuela.

I worked with and in Venezuela and its government just prior to and after Chavez' election so I can actually speak about what I saw. What first-hand knowledge do you have to contribute? (I'm betting zero).

[busterbrown]

15. Correct! No first-hand knowledge.

However, I never was in Iraq before the war.. Doesn’t mean i wasn’t able to obtain the facts of that horrible war!

Have done a lot of reading concerning ecoonomic govt. policy before Chavez.. A lot of what I read about mentions words like govt. privatization, IMF policies, economioc nationalism and general chaos..

"Venezuela’s economic transformation is also characterized by a lack of progress. While most Latin American countries implemented drastic structural economic reforms in the 1980s and 1990s, Venezuela’s attempts at reform have remained relatively lukewarm and hesitant. Its development model, based on petroleum and rent revenues, was overwhelmed with the eruption of the debt crisis in the early 1980s; nevertheless, Venezuela did not implement a tough austerity plan until Carlos Andrés Pérez (1989–1993) took office in 1989. The program’s goals were to privatize government-owned companies, reduce government spending, dismantle government subsidies, and protect the domestic market. However, this resulted in only modest economic stability and was accompanied by violent social unrest.”

There are always 2 sides to every story...

[COLGATE4]

16. There are indeed two sides:

1- That of those who, without any first-hand knowledge or experience nevertheless feel qualified to opine about subjects they are totally unfamiliar with;
2- Those who express their opinion based on first-hand knowledge and experience.

[busterbrown]

17. Well then educate me.

How Privataztion is good economic policy.How cutting subsidies to the poor is a good thing..

Oh I know.. ...Once you get big corporations going with huge Tax breaks and deregulations? Everything will be trickle down and save the day.. Hello Rand Paul...

First Hand Experience?... How many military generals have had "first-hand knowledge and totally made the wrong decisions>

[NobodyHere]

4. It is easy

Chavez/Maduro ran the country into the ground. Now Maduro wants to be a full fledged dictator.

See?

[busterbrown]

13. You make it sound so simple..

Almost out of free market ideoligy. U aren’t kidding anyone. Good luck pushing Rand Paul in 2020!

[VermontKevin]

5. Kleptocracy vs. Kleptocracy. Pretty simple.