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Justice

(7,185 posts)
Tue Aug 1, 2017, 08:33 PM Aug 2017

New Airforce One planes who are we buying them from? Boeing or Russian investors?

Bear with me -

First some background on the story of replacing Air Force One --
From 2015 -- Announcement would have new planes built for Air Force One. Not scheduled to be delivered until 2023
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/air-force-one-point-three/385037/

Late 2016 - Trump started voicing objections to price of new aircraft -said he would cancel.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/309028-white-house-new-air-force-one-will-benefit-future-presidents
"Force One after President-elect Donald Trump called for the cancellation of a contract with Boeing to build the new aircraft."

April 2017 article = cost savings being downplayed
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/04/28/trump-trims-air-force-one-cost-saving-estimates-from-billions-to-millions/
"Secretary of Defense [Jim] Mattis has ordered a cost-cutting review of Boeing's next-generation Air Force One fleet, after President Trump was able to cap the cost at millions below that which was agreed to by the Obama administration,"

May 2017 article - really not changing requirements very much
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/air-warfare-symposium/2017/03/02/air-force-downplays-requirements-changes-to-air-force-one-replacement/

All of these articles above still contemplate Boeing building a new Air Force One for delivery post 2020.

Suddenly, today we are told Trump administration likely to buy 2 planes already built by Boeing which were to be delivered to a bankrupt Russian airline. http://thehill.com/policy/defense/344822-air-force-to-purchase-bankrupt-russian-airlines-jets-for-presidential-planes.

These two planes were originally ordered in 2013 by Russia’s second-biggest airline Transaero, which went bankrupt in late 2015. The article says Boeing flight-tested and put the two jets in storage while it searched for a buyer.The article doesn't specify when they were finished and how long they have been in storage. (I believe 2 others were to be built but were not when the filing occurred).

After all that talk about saving money, we are told Air Force is not expected to release the contract value. (why is that?) We only get statement from unnamed officials that Air Force is getting a "good deal" on the planes, which are, on average, listed at $386.8 million each. The planes (whatever the cost) would need serious retrofitting for security and to configure to Air Force One versus a commercial Russian airline.

But I got to thinking:

1. The news today suggests Boeing still owns the planes. But does Boeing own them? Is Boeing holding them to resell to another buyer? Was Transaero ever going to buy them? Most airlines lease their planes, they don't buy them. So did Transaero have a contract to buy them or did a third party have a contract to buy them and Transaero had a lease agreement that was terminated in bankruptcy leaving the leasing company with 2 planes they need to sell?

2. Boeing wouldn't construct 2 planes without being paid a down payment or complete payment. About $800 million dollars would not be spent over years without knowing you were getting paid. Did someone finance the planes for the buyer and -- did someone have liens on the planes? A bank? Did the buyer default? Did the bank foreclose on airplane? Would a bank own these planes? https://www.ft.com/content/8cb09032-84ad-11e5-8095-ed1a37d1e096 - this article explains that the company was essentially pushed into bankruptcy and discusses creditors "Among Transaero’s creditors are the state-owned banks Vnesheconombank, VTB and Sberbank" (VTB and Sberbank are lessors - see below).

3. I found an article that confirms Transaero leased all of its other airplanes so it is not unreasonable to think it was going to lease the two built by Boeing. http://www.rusaviainsider.com/aeroflot-confirms-purchase-of-ex-transaero-fleet/

When the bankruptcy occurred, Aeroflot (Russian competitor of Transaero) entered into contracts for five Boeing 777s, five Boeing 767s, and 14 Boeing 747s - all leased by Transaero.

""Aeroflot - Russian Airlines" will get 33 aircraft from bankrupted Transaero fleet by inking a number of deals with Russian lessors"

"Aeroflot has recently inked a number of deals with Russian lessors allowing the latter to put the ex-Transaero aircraft back into revenue operations."

-- VEB-Leasing, Transaero’s largest Russian lessor.
--- VTB Leasing.
--- Sberbank Leasing

4. So again, I ask, from whom is the Air Force buying the planes - who is getting bailed out b/c we are buying planes that were not built to be Air Force one and then retrofitting them at some unknown cost to make them what is needed.








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elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
4. If he wants to ride around in a busted dusty shit box please proceed.
Tue Aug 1, 2017, 08:42 PM
Aug 2017

Totally worth a complete waste of money. We can replace them after he goes to prison.

Honestly, he deserves the very worst.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
8. He'll be out of office by the time they're ready.
Tue Aug 1, 2017, 09:12 PM
Aug 2017

He's doing favors for the Russians one way or the other. Give it time. More will come out.

Justice

(7,185 posts)
9. Another article on Defense One suggests Boeing is owner
Tue Aug 1, 2017, 09:18 PM
Aug 2017

http://www.defenseone.com/business/2017/08/russian-air-force-one-boeing-trump-747/139872/

Says - Aircraft, numbered N894BA and N895BA, were last flown in February, to the Southern California Logistics Airport in Victorville

Both List Owner as: BOEING

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N894BA

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N895BA

So maybe Boeing never delivered possession or title. Will keep digging to see if there is a lien against aircraft.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
12. Even if Boeing still holds title, Trump is removing liability from a Russian company.
Tue Aug 1, 2017, 10:40 PM
Aug 2017

The bankrupt Russian company was under contract to buy or lease the aircraft. Trump is doing that organization a huge favor by making the US assume that liability. Be interesting to see where that paper trail goes.

The odds that retrofitting these aircraft to serve as Air Force One will be more expensive than purpose built from the start air frames is very high.

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