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global1

(25,241 posts)
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:19 PM Aug 2017

Time For The Generals To Do Their Job And Have The Military Step In.....

Trump is away from the WH. Isolate him in Bedminster and do a peaceful takeover of the WH and take control of this situation. Trump is a loose cannon and there is no telling what he'll do or what he is capable of.

Cooler heads need to prevail here.

He's not my Commander-In-Chief. We have a fake president that doesn't know the first thing about presidenting. Time to make him impotent.

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Time For The Generals To Do Their Job And Have The Military Step In..... (Original Post) global1 Aug 2017 OP
Time for Congress to step in and 25th Amendment his ass right out of office. NightWatcher Aug 2017 #1
Congress Would Have To Take Action Immediately.... global1 Aug 2017 #17
I think you don't understand how the 25th amendment works onenote Aug 2017 #27
Yes I do, The VP and a majority of Cabinet members remove the Prez.... NightWatcher Aug 2017 #29
Totally agree, have advocated for it, for months furtheradu Aug 2017 #37
Impeachment is far more likely and certain than invoking the 25th amendment onenote Aug 2017 #47
Bet Pence is drooling right now elehhhhna Aug 2017 #77
The damage a military coup would do to the nation is staggering to contemplate. WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2017 #2
Yeah, I'm with you.... Adrahil Aug 2017 #10
I find the confidence people place in generals worrisome and talk of having them act on their own WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2017 #12
Yeah.... I've worked for the DoD my whole career.... Adrahil Aug 2017 #15
What Do You Think Their Meetings In The Pentagon.... global1 Aug 2017 #19
If I had to guess.... Adrahil Aug 2017 #31
You and me both Hekate Aug 2017 #46
Does not matter what you think....trump is CIC.... beachbum bob Aug 2017 #3
The military can refuse an illegal order dflprincess Aug 2017 #38
Isn't What Schlesinger In Conjunction With The Joint Chiefs.... global1 Aug 2017 #50
No Hekate Aug 2017 #58
Yes, and I doubt he had any real legal basis for that order. Kentonio Aug 2017 #61
This is sort of the opposite of their job. temporary311 Aug 2017 #4
No, Not A Good Solution Ccarmona Aug 2017 #5
I want to first know if this is what the military does not want. Because, who knows. Nt MonkeyC Aug 2017 #6
No thanks. More precisely: fuck whatever horse this shit rides struggle4progress Aug 2017 #7
7 Days In May? Me. Aug 2017 #8
Absolutely not. WTF. Weekend Warrior Aug 2017 #9
No. dawg Aug 2017 #11
Once the button is pressed, it's too late. Suppose Trump tweeted that within Doodley Aug 2017 #79
Go full Banana Republic? No thanks.. EX500rider Aug 2017 #13
no. this is a job for congress. eleny Aug 2017 #14
Read the Constitution. What you're proposing is military coup. procon Aug 2017 #16
It is the job of the military to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. roamer65 Aug 2017 #18
Yep, and Trump is their CIC. NT GulfCoast66 Aug 2017 #20
Dump is a domestic enemy. roamer65 Aug 2017 #21
Where exactly in the Constitution sarisataka Aug 2017 #22
Not by the Armed forces GulfCoast66 Aug 2017 #33
By breaking those laws? procon Aug 2017 #25
You might be confusing the US sarisataka Aug 2017 #23
You are demanding a military coup d'etat. That would be the final nail in the coffin of our republic Hekate Aug 2017 #24
So Congress Is Racing Back To D.C. To.... global1 Aug 2017 #30
If you want a democracy or a republic, you do not ever invite active military to govern in place of Hekate Aug 2017 #32
Because We Have A Madman At The Head & A..... global1 Aug 2017 #34
Why don't you write to them and ask them? Also, Mueller is not the only one probing Trump... Hekate Aug 2017 #43
I Respect Yours & The Other Posters Here On This Threads...... global1 Aug 2017 #52
As much as I despise Trump, I do not think that would set a good precedent. eom Hoyt Aug 2017 #26
"He's not my Commander-In-Chief." Maybe not, but... Glorfindel Aug 2017 #28
This is the Democratic Underground left-of-center2012 Aug 2017 #35
Finally! Thank you. Hekate Aug 2017 #42
Banana Republic nolabels Aug 2017 #68
No, no, a thousand times no jmowreader Aug 2017 #36
Alerted... brooklynite Aug 2017 #39
I just did also. This topic is leading some people down a dark alley. nt Hekate Aug 2017 #45
If this thread is not removed, I will be alerting the FBI And the Secret Service. Foamfollower Aug 2017 #73
Drop a note to Ask the Administrators (left side of your page under Main). Agent Mike is no doubt... Hekate Aug 2017 #88
What if the only choice is a coup, or Trump pushing the Button...? First Speaker Aug 2017 #40
Go write a novel & get it off your chest. This is not the place to advocate governmental overthrow. Hekate Aug 2017 #44
So is your answer to Trump pressing the button to go write a novel? Doodley Aug 2017 #56
Read the answers in this thread -- the sober ones. Then read the US Constitution. Hekate Aug 2017 #57
You would not have a nation if there is a nuclear war. Doodley Aug 2017 #66
Well, let's go back to JFK and start over with a military dictatorship in charge. Or FDR... Hekate Aug 2017 #69
It isn't very reassuring to say we've been in peril before. Do you Doodley Aug 2017 #82
Do I have children -- honey, I have grandchildren. Your arguments are circular and panicked... Hekate Aug 2017 #87
Congratulations on the grandchildren. I notice that you Doodley Aug 2017 #94
I did. Just. Say. No. Hekate Aug 2017 #96
So we should destroy the nation in order to save it? nt. Mariana Aug 2017 #93
Why are those the only alternatives? Caliman73 Aug 2017 #76
I said the word "if"... First Speaker Aug 2017 #95
Time for Trump to go .. Hieronymus Aug 2017 #41
No, never! denbot Aug 2017 #48
So you prefer Trump blow up the world??? OK. I'm not advocating this, but I pray they defy orders adigal Aug 2017 #51
Those are not the only choices, adigal. nt Hekate Aug 2017 #54
and once that happens, what's to stop them from doing the same thing time and again onenote Aug 2017 #49
Military coup? Not Ruth Aug 2017 #53
Ah, yes. putin's ultimate wet dream. Jakes Progress Aug 2017 #55
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no, it is not the military's job to remove Trump. BzaDem Aug 2017 #59
You've got to be kidding melman Aug 2017 #60
Jaw dropping stupidity. pintobean Aug 2017 #62
Not the problem of the Generals. It's the Congress TrishaJ Aug 2017 #63
Isolate him in Bedminster? Take over the White House? EL34x4 Aug 2017 #64
a coup . . . you are suggesting a military coup DrDan Aug 2017 #65
No to a military coup, thank you TacoD Aug 2017 #67
I'm pretty sure Mattis would stop this dimwit from doing something stupid elehhhhna Aug 2017 #70
When you say you are "pretty sure," how sure is that as a percentage Doodley Aug 2017 #80
Quite high, but I'm really good at denial elehhhhna Aug 2017 #98
This particular sentiment is as irrational and without thought of consequence as are Trump's tweets. LanternWaste Aug 2017 #71
Wow - when did we give generals the job of overturning the US govt? jmg257 Aug 2017 #72
NOPE. Caliman73 Aug 2017 #74
Suppose Trump woke up one morning in a bad mood, and ordered a nuke strike Doodley Aug 2017 #78
Why are those the only options? Caliman73 Aug 2017 #81
Boom! While they were resigning, Trump just pressed the button. Doodley Aug 2017 #84
You have a very unsophisticated view of our nuclear arsenal metalbot Aug 2017 #85
Wow. You think that there is an actual button? Like a little red button or something? Caliman73 Aug 2017 #86
No, it's a big red button sarisataka Aug 2017 #91
You want a Rubicon moment? LittleBlue Aug 2017 #75
I want Trump out, too...but I don't trust the Pentagon not to replace him with something like THIS: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #83
This we can agree on, Ken Hekate Aug 2017 #89
I think we actually always agreed far more than not. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #90
Back atcha Hekate Aug 2017 #92
NO! No, no, no, no, no... haele Aug 2017 #97
The Lieutenant say's to you and your squad OxQQme Aug 2017 #99

global1

(25,241 posts)
17. Congress Would Have To Take Action Immediately....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:59 PM
Aug 2017

because there is no telling what Trump will do or when he'll do it. I don't see this Congress moving fast on anything. Like Trump - they are on recess as well.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
29. Yes I do, The VP and a majority of Cabinet members remove the Prez....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 08:38 PM
Aug 2017

I was just saying that they should get together as a group and call for his removal. If it were a National Emergency and everyone came back to DC and demanded that he be removed, I'm sure Pence would act and have himself installed as Prez.

I suggested the 25th as a remedy because an Impeachment would take WAAAAAY too long and this way they could throw him out in the course of one session.

furtheradu

(1,865 posts)
37. Totally agree, have advocated for it, for months
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 10:42 PM
Aug 2017

& NOW, more than ever. Every day more stunning than the day before.
Thank You.

onenote

(42,694 posts)
47. Impeachment is far more likely and certain than invoking the 25th amendment
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 12:56 AM
Aug 2017

To invoke the 25th amendment, several steps have to take place.

First, the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, have to transmit to the leadership of the House and Senate their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, at which point the Vice President assumes the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Let's dissect that: Congress demanding his removal is meaningless unless the aforementioned first step is taken. Will Trump's cabinet follow Congress' lead if they call for the cabinet to act? I see no reason to think they would. For one thing, I doubt they would agree with the concept that Trump is "unable" to discharge the powers and duties of his office. He's discharging them, just not in a way that a majority of the country supports. Congress could pass legislation setting up a "body" to make the declaration, but even if you could get a majority of the House and Senate to do so, Trump could and would veto it. So you'd need to have veto proof majorities.

Assuming the necessary 2/3 vote to establish a body to declare the president unable to discharge his duties (and I'm not sure what body the repubs and Democrats would agree on), Trump could, immediately send a message to the leadership of Congress that no inability to discharge the duties of the office exist, at which point a majority of the cabinet or the body appointed by Congress has to make a new declaration within four days and then Congress has 21 days to vote and only if 2/3 of both Houses agree does the VP again take over. On the face of the amendment, nothing would stop Trump from again notifying Congress that he is able and starting the process over again and again.

Impeachment actually would be more certain and probably less time-consuming. It also would only require a majority vote in the House, not a 2/3 vote.

The 25th amendment almost certainly wasn't intended for use when a president is able to carry out the duties and powers of the office but does so in a way that a majority doesn't like. It was intended for circumstances where a president literally cannot act. That doesn't mean the 25th couldn't be used to displace a president whose behavior is as appalling outside the norm as Trump's. But it makes it a lot less likely that the folks that need to make that decision will do so, and in so doing set a precedent that could be followed in future circumstances. Impeachment is a more familiar course of action and one that is far more likely to be followed than the invocation of the 25th amendment.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
77. Bet Pence is drooling right now
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:58 PM
Aug 2017

Just noticed that AutoCorrect wants to change it to pants or prance- both probably apply

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
10. Yeah, I'm with you....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:31 PM
Aug 2017

Let's not talk extra-Constitutional solutions. That would be a major disaster, IMO.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,326 posts)
12. I find the confidence people place in generals worrisome and talk of having them act on their own
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:32 PM
Aug 2017

alarming.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
15. Yeah.... I've worked for the DoD my whole career....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:36 PM
Aug 2017

either directly or indirectly.

Most flag-level officers I've met were serious-minded professionals.

But it is VERY important that they stay out pf politics as much as possible.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
31. If I had to guess....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 09:08 PM
Aug 2017

They are updating their response plans and reemphasizing to the political appointees that there are no good options. Mattis already knows that.

dflprincess

(28,075 posts)
38. The military can refuse an illegal order
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 10:57 PM
Aug 2017

Near the end of Nixon's presidency Defense Secretary James Schlesinger told the joint chiefs and other commanders to ignore any order from Nixon until they confirmed it with him. Hopefully someone has done that with Trump.

BTW the oath officers take does not say anything about obeying the orders of the Commander-in-Chief (as the enlisted oath does).


Oath of Commissioned Officers
I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

temporary311

(955 posts)
4. This is sort of the opposite of their job.
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:24 PM
Aug 2017

While we could potentially recover from Trump, I'm not sure we could ever recover from this.

 

Ccarmona

(1,180 posts)
5. No, Not A Good Solution
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:25 PM
Aug 2017

The proper solution is to invoke the 25th Amendment and remove Trump because he's mentally unstable.

dawg

(10,624 posts)
11. No.
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:32 PM
Aug 2017

I would not support a military coup under any circumstances. There are Constitutional means for dealing with this situation.

Doodley

(9,088 posts)
79. Once the button is pressed, it's too late. Suppose Trump tweeted that within
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:38 PM
Aug 2017

the next 48 hours he would obliterate NK. Would that be a circumstance for a military coup? Or if not, what other means could, should and would be used?

procon

(15,805 posts)
16. Read the Constitution. What you're proposing is military coup.
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 07:51 PM
Aug 2017

Where do people (a Democrat <?> no less) get this crazy stuff! We are not a 3rd world country where the military overthrows the government. We are a country of laws, let's keep it that way.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
18. It is the job of the military to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 08:01 PM
Aug 2017

It's in their oath.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
33. Not by the Armed forces
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 09:22 PM
Aug 2017

I can't believe I am reading this shit in DU. The are constitutional ways to remove the President.

The military has exactly zero role in them.

procon

(15,805 posts)
25. By breaking those laws?
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 08:26 PM
Aug 2017

C'mon, if the military does nothing else, they follow the rules and the chain of command. Even if all the generals thought the president was a danger to the country, they would not go all vigilante cowboy and stage a coup.

Possibly, in this wild ass scenario, let's say the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff takes his concerns to the Secretary of Defense. If he concurs, someone would then have to go to Congress and convince the Republican Speaker of House of Representatives, which has the sole power of impeaching, and the Republican Leader of the Senate, that the president must be removed from office.

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
24. You are demanding a military coup d'etat. That would be the final nail in the coffin of our republic
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 08:26 PM
Aug 2017

Read the Constitution -- there's a good annotated version out there that brings the antique language up to date. The situation calls out for a civilian remedy, because we are governed by civilians.

global1

(25,241 posts)
30. So Congress Is Racing Back To D.C. To....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 08:41 PM
Aug 2017

handle this. We could expect a civilian remedy from them?

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
32. If you want a democracy or a republic, you do not ever invite active military to govern in place of
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 09:10 PM
Aug 2017

...civilians elected by the citizens. You especially do not invite them in to clean up a civilian mess.

Call your Senators, your Representatives, and whoever else you can think of. Join Indivisible. Do a lot of things.

But re-examine your fixation on turning my country into a military dictatorship. And try explaining why this seems like a good ides.

global1

(25,241 posts)
34. Because We Have A Madman At The Head & A.....
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 09:26 PM
Aug 2017

friendly Congress that doesn't challenge Trump seriously.

Have we had any statements yet from McConnell or Ryan?

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
43. Why don't you write to them and ask them? Also, Mueller is not the only one probing Trump...
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 12:34 AM
Aug 2017

Some in the House are starting to rumble about impeachment -- and since you apparently still won't read the Constitution on the subject, that is where it must begin. In addition, I refer you to Article 25 -- where matters must begin in the Cabinet.

What you postulate is wrong for the country. I believe it is also wrong for this discussion board, global1. Quite a few posters in this thread seem to agree with me.

global1

(25,241 posts)
52. I Respect Yours & The Other Posters Here On This Threads......
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 01:14 AM
Aug 2017

opinions. I'm not fully convinced myself that this is the best way to handle this - but I offered it as an alternative partly because I'm of the belief that we've already experienced a coup d'etat back in November - with Trump & the Repugs aided and abetted by Putin and the Russians.

Glorfindel

(9,726 posts)
28. "He's not my Commander-In-Chief." Maybe not, but...
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 08:35 PM
Aug 2017

he's the commander-in-chief of the military, duly elected and sworn. The military is subordinate to the civilian government. They will follow orders. They will not overthrow the lawfully installed president.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
68. Banana Republic
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:02 PM
Aug 2017

They should do the rename and disclaimer now. Elad would also save a bundle of bytes with the shorter title

jmowreader

(50,553 posts)
36. No, no, a thousand times no
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 09:40 PM
Aug 2017

NO COUPS!

We can work around the bastard, but the last thing we need is a military takeover of the government.

The FIRST thing we've got to do is to defuse the situation. There are four nations we haven't managed to piss off yet who maintain embassies in North Korea - Germany, Poland, Sweden and the UK. Since Trump hasn't bothered to choose an ambassador for the Republic of Korea our only diplomat on the Peninsula is Obama's Deputy Chief of Mission who is serving as Charge d'Affaires until Trump puts down the golf clubs and the cell phone and actually does a little presidenting. Sweden's ambassador coupled with our CdA might be able to talk Kim Jong Un out of blowing up the world.

The next thing we need to do is to get the nuclear football away from that fucking maniac, and not allow him to deploy troops without the Director of Central Intelligence and the Director of the National Reconnaissance Office confirming that the North Koreans have done something they need their asses kicked over.

And then we need to 25th Amendment Trump and his family out of power.

 

Foamfollower

(1,097 posts)
73. If this thread is not removed, I will be alerting the FBI And the Secret Service.
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:48 PM
Aug 2017

Advocating a military coup is sedition and a crime. If the administrators won't do something it's time for law enforcement to do so.

I only support constitutional remedies to our current situation.

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
88. Drop a note to Ask the Administrators (left side of your page under Main). Agent Mike is no doubt...
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 02:18 PM
Aug 2017

...already on it in any case (very old joke from the old days at DU).

Essentially you have a gripe about forum moderation, so your remedy is to post a note to Ask the Admins. You also can alert on the OP or other subsequent posts in this thread. I would advise doing both of those things. Several of us already have. I know the Admins can't always get to fast-breaking situations, and I don't know why this and other threads have survived being alerted on -- but I am very encouraged by the fact that the majority of the DU community is fighting back vigorously.

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
40. What if the only choice is a coup, or Trump pushing the Button...?
Tue Aug 8, 2017, 11:06 PM
Aug 2017

...those are literally the only alternatives...? God help us, if it comes to that. I would prefer the coup...but it's a choice between black, and dark black...

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
57. Read the answers in this thread -- the sober ones. Then read the US Constitution.
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 03:11 AM
Aug 2017

False choices, strawmen, and moronic ideas about turning my nation into a military dictatorship do not amuse me.

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
69. Well, let's go back to JFK and start over with a military dictatorship in charge. Or FDR...
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:35 PM
Aug 2017

Of course, FDR was before nukes, but there were sure a lot of people who hated him and thought he was dangerous. Did you know there was a plot? Look up Smedley Butler.

We've been in maximum peril before. The biggest peril we've been in has been from our own stupidity, like now. Nice little republic you've got here. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

Doodley

(9,088 posts)
82. It isn't very reassuring to say we've been in peril before. Do you
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:45 PM
Aug 2017

have children? If so, I expect there has been times when they have been in peril. Now, is that going to make you feel that they are safe to be left alone for the weekend in the hands of Donald Trump?

Hekate

(90,644 posts)
87. Do I have children -- honey, I have grandchildren. Your arguments are circular and panicked...
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 02:04 PM
Aug 2017

If we threw out the US Constitution and Bill of Rights every time we were in danger, America as a democratic republic would have long ago ceased to be.

This country has made many, many mistakes along the way that stain and shame us (and that in the end we try to rectify), but so far we have not made the one mistake from which we will not be able to recover: actually having the military overthrow our government.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin.

George W. Bush and his cabal panicked (that word again) the country into accepting the USA PATRIOT ACT and Homeland Security and all the rest of it. Trump could complete the job. How about if we just say No.

Doodley

(9,088 posts)
94. Congratulations on the grandchildren. I notice that you
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 04:02 PM
Aug 2017

didn't respond to my question about if you would trust Trump to take care of your children.

Caliman73

(11,730 posts)
76. Why are those the only alternatives?
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:57 PM
Aug 2017

Reality testing is a thing my friend. Check it out.

Binary thinking is usually the prevalent realm of right wingers. Let's not engage in their fever dreams and paranoia.

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
95. I said the word "if"...
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 04:14 PM
Aug 2017

...and was only asking a hypothetical question. If--again--there are alternatives, then I'd be delighted. But some people here talk of the "Constitution" as if it's absolute, and it clearly isn't. To coin a phrase--it isn't a suicide pact. If a President went mad and tried to start a nuclear war on his own initiative, which is clearly within his "constitutional" prerogatives, I hope someone somewhere along the chain of command would say "no". If this is a "coup", then so be it. Schlesinger did this more-or-less with Nixon in the last days of Watergate, and God bless him. He bent the letter of the Constitution, to avoid risking losing everything. I hope someone would have the courage to do this again, if Trump went crazy and tried to start a nuclear war. Is there anyone here at DU who thinks this is an impossible scenario...? (See Ron Rosenbaum's 2011 book on nuclear command and control for a further discussion of these issues--I forget the title, but it's one of the scariest books I've ever read. There is *nothing*, formally, that can prevent an insane President from pushing the Button.)

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
51. So you prefer Trump blow up the world??? OK. I'm not advocating this, but I pray they defy orders
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 01:12 AM
Aug 2017

to launch any nukes.

onenote

(42,694 posts)
49. and once that happens, what's to stop them from doing the same thing time and again
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 12:59 AM
Aug 2017

in the future. Maybe to a Democratic president they just don't like very much?

BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
59. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no, it is not the military's job to remove Trump.
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 04:53 AM
Aug 2017

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

In any situation where it could make sense for the military to refuse an order from Trump (such as nuking Germany out of pique), there would be no trouble taking one of the legal routes to removing him from office (impeachment or 25th amendment). If we were actually in a situation where there was not bipartisan support for removing him, and the military chose to remove him anyway, it would be the end of our republic (and what would come after would be far worse).

TrishaJ

(797 posts)
63. Not the problem of the Generals. It's the Congress
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 08:00 AM
Aug 2017

who needs to step up. We do not want a "peaceful military takeover." We want the system to work as intended.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
64. Isolate him in Bedminster? Take over the White House?
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 08:15 AM
Aug 2017

And how exactly does doing this stop Trump from being President? It's not like he gets special powers only when he is seated in the Oval Office.

Trump could spend his entire term at Mar-A-Lago, or at the Office Depot down the street, and he is President of the United States until he isn't via procedures established in the Constitution.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
65. a coup . . . you are suggesting a military coup
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 08:15 AM
Aug 2017

I never thought I would see a call for a military coup on DU . . . .

TacoD

(581 posts)
67. No to a military coup, thank you
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 11:51 AM
Aug 2017

BTW he's not my commander-in-chief either. The president is commander-in-chief of service members only, not civilians.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
70. I'm pretty sure Mattis would stop this dimwit from doing something stupid
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:37 PM
Aug 2017

He knows damned well what he swore an oath to.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
71. This particular sentiment is as irrational and without thought of consequence as are Trump's tweets.
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:45 PM
Aug 2017

This particular sentiment is as irrational and without thought of consequence as are Trump's tweets.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
72. Wow - when did we give generals the job of overturning the US govt?
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:47 PM
Aug 2017

Seems counter-Constitution.

Can they do this job anytime they feel like it? Is it up to the JCOS?

Caliman73

(11,730 posts)
74. NOPE.
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:51 PM
Aug 2017

I agree that Trump is horrific for the United States, and I hope that the investigations reveal what we all suspect is the fact that Trump is traitorous, and that he gets perp walked out of the White House in disgrace. However, a military coup is not due process. It is not the rule of law, and it is not an American Ideal.

Delusional right wingers wanted the military to "remove the illegitimate Kenyan, socialist... from office. They fantasized about it constantly.We cannot become like them if the US is to persist as a free nation into the future.

Doodley

(9,088 posts)
78. Suppose Trump woke up one morning in a bad mood, and ordered a nuke strike
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:34 PM
Aug 2017

on NK, against the advice of everyone else. At that point, would you prefer the attack to go ahead or would you prefer the generals to say, no we aren't doing that, we are no longer able to follow your command, step aside, we are in charge until we have a commander-in-chief who isn't trigger happy?




Caliman73

(11,730 posts)
81. Why are those the only options?
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:44 PM
Aug 2017

The generals are within their rights to resign, rather than follow an order they felt was detrimental to the security of the United States. They could also request that he Secretary of State submit for the removal of the president via the 25th Amendment, both of which would be majorly disruptive, but not unAmerican like a military coup.

Doodley

(9,088 posts)
84. Boom! While they were resigning, Trump just pressed the button.
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:49 PM
Aug 2017

Boom! While they were trying to pressure the Secretary of State to do something, Trump just pressed the button. If you have a baby playing with a razor blade, you don't abdicate all responsibility or start filling out forms.

metalbot

(1,058 posts)
85. You have a very unsophisticated view of our nuclear arsenal
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:56 PM
Aug 2017

There is not a magical button that the president can push that starts a nuclear war. It may seem that way from Hollywood, but the "nuclear football" is merely an authorization device, not a launch device.

Caliman73

(11,730 posts)
86. Wow. You think that there is an actual button? Like a little red button or something?
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 02:00 PM
Aug 2017

The Nuclear football is a briefcase with authorization PROTOCOLS. While the process is actually frighteningly quick. There is no little button for Trump to push that is solely under his command. Trump and his detail open the case, confirm the codes, call the commanders in charge of issuing the launch order. Once the codes are confirmed, the commanders give the launch orders to their subordinates with the protocols. It is a chain, and while to prevailing thought is that it is a reflexive chain, there are still steps where the chain can be interrupted.

Look, the situation is not good but seriously, take an Ativan.

North Korea does not have the capability of any retaliatory strike. That would be China or Russia (who does not have any defense treaty with North Korea). China would have to decide if they want to the world to go full nuclear war.

Now any strike by us would cause chaos as North Korea does have military capability to take out Seoul, causing millions of deaths and essentially crashing the world's economy, but you are equating the situation with launching against China or Russia who have multiple warhead on multiple systems.

Don't let your panic get in the way of rational thinking.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
75. You want a Rubicon moment?
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 12:55 PM
Aug 2017

This would end our republic just as surely as Caesar's actions ended Rome's.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
83. I want Trump out, too...but I don't trust the Pentagon not to replace him with something like THIS:
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 01:47 PM
Aug 2017
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
90. I think we actually always agreed far more than not.
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 02:35 PM
Aug 2017

You and I were divided by the primaries...but the primaries and the elections are over, we both mourned the November result, and I hope any hostilities between you and I can end.

All I'm doing now is trying to work for unity, dialog, and the building of support for resistance and change.

haele

(12,647 posts)
97. NO! No, no, no, no, no...
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 04:16 PM
Aug 2017

"The Generals", "The Admirals" et all are not monolithic in their politics. They didn't get where they are on "merit" alone, they got where they are through politics within the organization. And that includes a good number of them still in service who rose through the ranks under Rumsfeld's DoD.
There's way more of them who are itching for a reason to suspend the Constitution ala Pinochet if given half a chance. Between the Oafkeepers, the Closet Birchers, and run of the mill Authoritarians, the only thing that keeps them in check is the requirement that they serve a Civilian authority - which includes Congress - not just their own Military hierarchy under a President or other ruler.

It's Congress's job - or the Voter's job - to rein Drumpf in. It's not the Military's job, and from the very beginning of this Country, it was never going to be the Military's job to deal with issues in governance or social wellbeing in this country..

(However, we could ask the Military to ensure the Officer with the Football is far enough away that Secret Service or someone else could jump the demented freak during a temper tantrum before he reaches the briefcase...)

Haele

OxQQme

(2,550 posts)
99. The Lieutenant say's to you and your squad
Thu Aug 10, 2017, 05:55 PM
Aug 2017

amassed on a hill overlooking a village,

"Check that all your weapons and shields are on.
We're going in five minutes.
Spare no one. Man, woman or child."

As a rifle carrying grunt sargent, do you?
Or don't you?

Or could you herd a bunch of Muslims into a stockade because you were ordered to?

Or shoot into a crowd of college students protesting because you were ordered to?

I served as a Marine in my youth and know the oath and chain.
I continually thank the powers that be that I was of an age when I didn't have to.
As an 0849/naval gun fire spotter I got to rain fire and fury onto empty piles of barrels and used up jeeps
several times a year, as the Navy ships and spotters had to 'qualify' their abilities annually.

(maybe an occasional goat wandering around in the target area that I still feel sad about 60 yrs later)

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