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Orrex

(63,191 posts)
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 07:46 AM Aug 2017

When news broke of the terrorist who drove into the protesters...

my family was eating at a local restaurant which, owing to local demographics, generally runs Fox News on its half dozen tvs.

The sound was down, but the headline on the screen was "car drives into protesters."

Naturally, my family wondered whether "protesters" referred to the Nazis or to the people protesting against the Nazis.

It occurred to me in a flash: "The counter-protesters were hit," I said.

If the Nazis had been run down, the headline would have been something like Many injured as terrorist slams car into demonstrators. Fox News would assign blame, and they would inspire sympathy for the victims.

Instead, they downplayed and neutralized it: the car drove into protestors. No person is at fault; it's the car! The car didn't hit anyone; it drove into them (implying that they were in the way). And they weren't regular people; they were protestors.


Of course, Fox does this kind of stuff 24/7 (as when they "mistakenly" identify a Republican as a Democrat after her commits sex crimes, etc.) , so it's hardly surprising that they would continue their agenda of normalizing hatred and Rightwing terrorism.





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When news broke of the terrorist who drove into the protesters... (Original Post) Orrex Aug 2017 OP
You can protest the restaurant's TV choice sharedvalues Aug 2017 #1
No, that absolutely 100% won't work Orrex Aug 2017 #3
You could at least try a subtle hint like "Could you please switch the TV to a news station?" Towlie Aug 2017 #18
Direct is better than subtle sharedvalues Aug 2017 #21
You could ask them to switch it to NASCAR, or a hunting show Ken Burch Aug 2017 #58
A deluge starts with a single drop sharedvalues Aug 2017 #19
I can see no realistic way for that scenario to work Orrex Aug 2017 #22
Protest would be about Fox, not the business. sharedvalues Aug 2017 #24
It's also about picking one's battles Orrex Aug 2017 #38
p.s. I 100% totally agree that Fox is biased sharedvalues Aug 2017 #25
Before they can accept "Republicans lie", they'll resort to the easier to swallow "politicians lie." Towlie Aug 2017 #37
A resturant with FOX playing 24/7 would be 100% OFF my list of places to eat.....n/t Bengus81 Aug 2017 #27
Well, I'll add you to the list of Progressives who are more Progressive than I am Orrex Aug 2017 #39
I just hope the food's good enough to be worth it. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #59
Me too! jzola Aug 2017 #43
Sometimes it just can't be escaped, especially if you live in a cherry red area Jake Stern Aug 2017 #81
Very much like my Missouri town Alwaysna Aug 2017 #83
Could you ask them not to have it on news? drmeow Aug 2017 #49
A good thought. When local sports games are airing, maybe. Orrex Aug 2017 #51
First off, I doubt they started showing PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2017 #53
How the business selected the channel in the first place is irrelevant. Orrex Aug 2017 #55
Do you know that would be the drmeow Aug 2017 #54
I've chosen to embrace it as your second bit suggests! Orrex Aug 2017 #56
Fair enough eom drmeow Aug 2017 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author Maraya1969 Aug 2017 #71
Tell you what--drop by for a visit. Orrex Aug 2017 #74
Hey I have done it. I can get away with it by acting like it is news to me and I'm Maraya1969 Aug 2017 #75
Thank you--I sincerely appreciate that Orrex Aug 2017 #76
yes larwdem Aug 2017 #77
I would not have been at that restaurant aeromanKC Aug 2017 #2
Yes, DU is replete with people who would do the right thing. Orrex Aug 2017 #4
Each individual may believe they have zero impact. rickford66 Aug 2017 #5
Hey, you're welcome not to eat there Orrex Aug 2017 #7
People talking about Fox lies is enough, even if business goes up sharedvalues Aug 2017 #23
Yes, that's indeed a lofty goal Orrex Aug 2017 #35
I refuse to shop at any Walmart store luvtheGWN Aug 2017 #28
Yes, this is why so many don't "bother" to vote:. "It won't make any difference". nt Atticus Aug 2017 #26
It's also why I don't play the lottery Orrex Aug 2017 #50
My community went 77% for Trump. I "understand" our communities. I just don't ACCEPT mine.nt Atticus Aug 2017 #63
Bully for you, and thanks for the condescension Orrex Aug 2017 #64
I don't think you are actually open to discussion on this. As to "exactly" what I've done, I don't Atticus Aug 2017 #65
I am open to discussion. Orrex Aug 2017 #68
without asking them to change it barbtries Aug 2017 #33
But you wouldn't have to listen to it treestar Aug 2017 #85
Yes, the volume is down Orrex Aug 2017 #86
Great point . It was the car's fault according to Fox underpants Aug 2017 #6
Ironic in view of the Right's slogan 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' LeftishBrit Aug 2017 #15
Yes. It's painfully obvious underpants Aug 2017 #16
I have made a rule Timmygoat Aug 2017 #8
Yes, yes, yes, I know. Orrex Aug 2017 #9
For me, it's not just a matter of "doing the right thing." cab67 Aug 2017 #10
That's your choice, of course. Orrex Aug 2017 #17
Fair enough. cab67 Aug 2017 #44
Where I live I would not be able to go anywhere because FAUX redstateblues Aug 2017 #79
Thank you--that's it exactly Orrex Aug 2017 #84
makes me sick larwdem Aug 2017 #80
Good catch. nt Honeycombe8 Aug 2017 #11
Maybe they thought it was a self-driving car. :sarcasm: nt raccoon Aug 2017 #12
This is the same group of people that insists "guns don't kill people". eom tarheelsunc Aug 2017 #13
Brilliant! bronxiteforever Aug 2017 #14
It was a great opportunity for a real-time discussion w/ our sons Orrex Aug 2017 #32
you used it as a teaching moment NJCher Aug 2017 #41
Great post malaise Aug 2017 #20
Getting real news from Fox uses the same tactics Russians used to get news from Pravda. Pholus Aug 2017 #29
If asking that the channel be changed won't work then you have to out smart avebury Aug 2017 #30
Great idea! I've gotten into turning over National Enquirer as a daily routine now. Pholus Aug 2017 #31
Something I read on facebook said a car accidentally hit rioting protesters. appleannie1943 Aug 2017 #34
My older son made exactly the same observation Orrex Aug 2017 #40
People where I am are claiming the guy was a Bernie supporter sarah FAILIN Aug 2017 #36
Good analysis. (nt) Paladin Aug 2017 #42
"car drives into protesters" is a classic example of deflection of responsibility chia Aug 2017 #45
Yes, a la "mistakes were made" or "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" Orrex Aug 2017 #47
MSNBC First Said A Car Has Driven Into A Group Of Protesters DallasNE Aug 2017 #46
Probably true, with one caveat: Orrex Aug 2017 #48
With This Important Clarification - Point Of Context DallasNE Aug 2017 #60
Should have included that in my OP (nt) Orrex Aug 2017 #61
Fox definitely gets an A+ in spin. Different Drummer Aug 2017 #52
For hours afterwards quite a few sources were saying "Multi car accident" csziggy Aug 2017 #62
Only 1 man/family in the community? MyOwnPeace Aug 2017 #66
Holy fucking shit do I ever hate parables Orrex Aug 2017 #69
We do courteously accept.......... MyOwnPeace Aug 2017 #70
Don't fucking presume to tell me how to teach my children Orrex Aug 2017 #73
Damn...you were doing so well.(eom) CanSocDem Aug 2017 #87
How about suggesting the Weather Channel? Lifelong Protester Aug 2017 #67
I just tell people I don't watch the Nazi Channel bucolic_frolic Aug 2017 #72
I would not eat anywhere that was showing that righwing propaganda trash Skittles Aug 2017 #78
Totally understand Jake Stern Aug 2017 #82

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
1. You can protest the restaurant's TV choice
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 07:51 AM
Aug 2017

If you want to help locally, ask the restaurant to turn off the lies of Fox News.

If they don't, publicly boycott them.

Walk in one day. Ask them to turn off Fox News because Fox News lies hurt America. If they refuse, ask to talk to the owner. Say the same to him. If he refuses, leave. Then write a letter to the local paper.


You can make a difference!!

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
3. No, that absolutely 100% won't work
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:17 AM
Aug 2017

We eat there once every few weeks, and we're never the only customers in there.

Even during slow times there are always at least a dozen tables occupied, and (again, owing to local demographics and voting history) the restaurant is simply serving its majority customer base. If I asked the owner to change the channel, then 24 people would immediately ask the owner to change it back.

We like the restaurant, a mom & pop place, and the people who work there are great, so we accept this as an unfortunate and unavoidable part of living where we live.

If we wrote a letter to the paper saying that they wouldn't change the channel, we would increase their business beyond their ability to handle it.

Towlie

(5,324 posts)
18. You could at least try a subtle hint like "Could you please switch the TV to a news station?"
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:25 AM
Aug 2017

At least you could try a subtle hint like "Could you please switch channels to a news station?"

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
21. Direct is better than subtle
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:29 AM
Aug 2017

In my experience (and it may only be my experience), when you are telling people something like this it has to be direct. Otherwise they catch your meaning and sneer at you. You have to own an idea like this.

Cult experts also recommend to give people new information.

You can print out Tobin Smith's article on how Fox is staged
https://medium.com/@tobinsmith_95851/how-roger-ailes-fox-news-scammed-americas-la-z-boy-cowboys-for-21-years-1996ee4a6b3e
Or John Schindler's on how Fox helps Putin by repeating Russian lies.
Then give them the articles at the same time as you tell them you're leaving if they don't change the channel.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
58. You could ask them to switch it to NASCAR, or a hunting show
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 01:33 PM
Aug 2017

That would leave most of the other customers feeling totally conflicted.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
19. A deluge starts with a single drop
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:25 AM
Aug 2017

If you're not willing to call out Fox News' lies, who will be?

What I try to do is not support any business that supports Fox News.

The key to breaking through against Trump and American self-dealing autocrats is spreading the message that the GOP lies to America, specifically the GOP media like Fox. Many people in my experience have never even heard people say that Fox lies. Many still believe "fair and balanced".

If you're looking some day for something to do to contribute, this kind of action against Fox News will help us all.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
22. I can see no realistic way for that scenario to work
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:31 AM
Aug 2017

Nor do I have any patience for slogans about "single drops," etc.

If I have them change the channel, 23 other people will immediately say "turn it back."

If I protest in the paper, then the business will be swamped by Fox viewers eager to lend their support.

If I call for a boycott, they will likewise be swamped.

If I stop going there, then it will have no impact at all. They won't even notice my absence.

Practically speaking, I cannot accomplish anything of significance with this hypothetical protest of conscience. It would be a tremendous expenditure of energy for the sake of a meaningless and trivial non-victory.


Further, as I've noted already, your suggestion completely misses the point of the OP.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
24. Protest would be about Fox, not the business.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:35 AM
Aug 2017

If the business gets more customers, that's fine. If they change the channel back, that's fine.

If you get people talking locally about whether Fox is propaganda -- that is a HUGE WIN for progressives and American values.

I think it's a hard thing to do, though, and not everyone is suited for this kind of thing. Everyone has to find their own way to help.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
38. It's also about picking one's battles
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:19 AM
Aug 2017

Practically speaking, nothing I do will get people talking about Fox News as propaganda; they'll talk about the Liberal snowflake who can't go out in public without getting triggered. This restaurant is not a worthwhile venue for that discussion.

It was, however, a terrific opportunity for us to discuss the use propaganda with our 10 & 13 year old sons, and we did so. Again, that is the issue at hand; not the airing of Fox News by mom & pop businesses in Red counties.


Since--despite the advice of anonymous online explainers--I recognize that my protest here would be futile, I pursue others path, however minor.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
25. p.s. I 100% totally agree that Fox is biased
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:37 AM
Aug 2017

I totally agree with your original point on Fox's lies of omission. No comment there.

I'm just at a phase where I'm trying to figure out what I can DO about Fox's lies.

Towlie

(5,324 posts)
37. Before they can accept "Republicans lie", they'll resort to the easier to swallow "politicians lie."
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:13 AM
Aug 2017

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
81. Sometimes it just can't be escaped, especially if you live in a cherry red area
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 11:17 PM
Aug 2017

Lived in a small Missouri town and damn near every eatery in town has Fox on the teevee, including the pizzeria where I worked. Places that didn't have Fox going, had the local talk radio station on which blared Rush and Hannity and Savage all day. Sadly I had no car at the time so getting to the "big" town over 20 miles away meant tagging along when someone had to go up there.

Just had to learn to tune it out.

Alwaysna

(574 posts)
83. Very much like my Missouri town
Mon Aug 14, 2017, 12:35 AM
Aug 2017

Even in a cherry red town you can find democrats to associate with. There are probably more than you think . They aren't as "loud and proud" as the majority of redneck repubs are.

drmeow

(5,015 posts)
49. Could you ask them not to have it on news?
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 12:25 PM
Aug 2017

"The news is so negative! Could the TV show sports or something else other than news?"

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
51. A good thought. When local sports games are airing, maybe.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 12:39 PM
Aug 2017

Otherwise, the answer will almost certainly be "this is the channel that people want us to show."

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,839 posts)
53. First off, I doubt they started showing
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 01:02 PM
Aug 2017

Fox all the time because of requests for that channel. That would have been their decision in the first place.

I would not continue going to a restaurant that had that channel playing.

The other thing I don't get is why a restaurant, or any business at all, thinks it's necessary to have a TV on all the time. Sports bars, yeah, because they'll be showing sport.

I have complained at times in various waiting rooms. I've also been known to turn of the stupid TV if I'm the only one there, or if there are only one or two others and they're agreeable to the turn off.

Part of the enormous dumbing down of people is the perceived need to be watching TV all the time.

Yesterday I was waiting in a quite long line to order food to take home. Because the wait was so long, several of us got chatting. We fussed a bit about the slowness of the service, then moved on to discussing other restaurants in that part of the city that have closed. It made the wait go faster. And no TV was needed.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
55. How the business selected the channel in the first place is irrelevant.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 01:21 PM
Aug 2017

This is the channel that now airs, and it is the channel that the local demographic prefers. It's a local business in a very Red Pennsylvania county, where Confederate flags are flown with pride. I suspect that the employees know who eats there.

drmeow

(5,015 posts)
54. Do you know that would be the
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 01:14 PM
Aug 2017

Answer cause you or someone you know has asked? A jocular comment to the waitstaff - "I hate seeing the news while I eat. I swear its gonna give me indigestion! Any way it can be changed to sports?" Might at least get you an "I'll ask." if the answer is no you can just grin and say you'll just have to try to sit with your back to it. If they do change the channel it is possible that the pro Fox people won't care as much as is assumed. Its not a "News bar" (like a sports bar) where people are coming there specifically for what's on the TVs. Especially since the sound is of as long as its not switched to something "librul" most people may not notice.

On the other hand, it does give you a relatively painless way to observe the enemy's propaganda

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
56. I've chosen to embrace it as your second bit suggests!
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 01:24 PM
Aug 2017

Without getting into specifics, I can say that we've been going to this place for most of a decade, and we have a pretty good sense of the prevailing sentiment locally.

Response to Orrex (Reply #3)

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
74. Tell you what--drop by for a visit.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:18 PM
Aug 2017

Let me sit at the next booth while you give them that speech. I'd like to see how it turns out.

Maraya1969

(22,474 posts)
75. Hey I have done it. I can get away with it by acting like it is news to me and I'm
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:29 PM
Aug 2017

just as shocked as the next person.

I don't mean to put you down by implying that you should not go there. I should not judge you. And it is not really about you but about the state of the entire country now and how upset I am about it.

Sorry

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
76. Thank you--I sincerely appreciate that
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:31 PM
Aug 2017

I am amazed at the number of other replies that took it upon themselves to lecture me for my failure to be a good little Progressive, rather than recognizing the important opportunity we had to discuss propaganda with our children.

larwdem

(758 posts)
77. yes
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:34 PM
Aug 2017

I do this all the time and It works some times. I will not eat at a restaurant if they have fox bullshit on the TV. Also hotels and stores. My goal is to not spend one god dam dime at republican leaning businesses .

aeromanKC

(3,322 posts)
2. I would not have been at that restaurant
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:09 AM
Aug 2017

We refuse to patronize any establishment that has Fox on their TV's. Demographics be damned. They will NOT get our Money!!!

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
4. Yes, DU is replete with people who would do the right thing.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:22 AM
Aug 2017

However, we like the food, we like the staff, and we like the fact that it's a single-site locally-owned business.

My choice not to patronize the facility would have zero impact upon their choice of channel.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
7. Hey, you're welcome not to eat there
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:41 AM
Aug 2017

As I've noted, if I don't eat there, it will have zero effect upon the place. I know because we spend--at most--60 bucks a month at a place that does thousands of dollars in business daily. Mathematically my presence has no appreciable impact.

As I've also noted, if I decided to launch a big "look at me" protest against the restaurant's choice of programming, I would flood their establishment with local Fox viewers who would like nothing more than to tell off a Liberal while supporting a Fox-airing business.


sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
23. People talking about Fox lies is enough, even if business goes up
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:32 AM
Aug 2017

The point is about Fox, not about the business.

If the business was flooded with new customers, that would cause a local media discussion about Fox. Which would help us and progressives and America - it would get the idea that Fox lies out into local public debate.

Everyone needs to contribute in their own way and maybe this isn't your way, but such an action would have only long-term positive effects. And if a locally owned business gets more business, good for them. It's not about the business anyway, it's about getting people talking about whether Fox is propaganda or not.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
35. Yes, that's indeed a lofty goal
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:08 AM
Aug 2017

And here, in this aging and very solidly Red county, I am strongly confident that the patrons will not worry themselves about whether or not a Liberal claims that Fox News lies. If anything, the will laugh about my snowflake triggers as they crank up the volume.

I appreciate everyone's effort to educate me as to The Right Thing To Do, but let me say again that any protest, boycott or campaign I might launch in this regard would have all the impact of writing a manifesto on a piece of toilet paper and flushing it.

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
28. I refuse to shop at any Walmart store
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:44 AM
Aug 2017

and I know it doesn't make one iota of difference to their bottom line. I can't support a company that treats its American employees so shabbily, and then "sponges" off the taxpayers because their employees are paid so little that they're on government assistance (health, food stamps etc.).

I stopped going to Home Depot when I learned that the founder and chairman was a great friend of the Kochs and a major GOP supporter.

There are all sorts of different reasons for "boycotting" vendors whose behaviours conflict with one's ethical standards. But if Orrex can put up with a TV in a restaurant dining room, regardless of the station, and because he loves the food, then I'd say the owner, the other diners and (I presume) the rightwing folks in his town would simply say "Hey, go eat someplace else". And that would be perfectly understandable.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
50. It's also why I don't play the lottery
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 12:37 PM
Aug 2017

Because sometimes "it won't make a difference" is accurate correct.

Please give me enough credit to accept that I understand my community. I'm not speaking of Some Random TV In Some Random Business In Some Random Town. I'm talking about these specific TVs in this specific restaurant in this specific Trump-voting community.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
64. Bully for you, and thanks for the condescension
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 04:30 PM
Aug 2017

So you don't accept it. What has your lack of acceptance led you to do, exactly?

What impact have you had?

Does it involve meaningless gestures re: pissing contests about a business' choice of channels to air? Or is is something more concrete?

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
65. I don't think you are actually open to discussion on this. As to "exactly" what I've done, I don't
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 05:22 PM
Aug 2017

want to be specific because I don't want the knuckle draggers I live among to identify me as the person posting this. I think you might be able to understand that. But, I have very publicly and vocally opposed the racist and bigoted tripe that is just a part of living for those who live where I live. Yes, I have specifically asked that Fox be switched to MSNBC in a business full of "them".

Impact? Many people have quietly told me how happy they are that SOMEONE shares their views and says so publicly. A few of them now write LTEs to criticize Trump, the Tea Party, etc.

I do not intend to be condescending, but I also don't want to agree with your approach. It seems to be "go along to get along" and, while we all find ourselves doing that from time to time, I don't want to make a habit out of it. Being too comfortable in the midst of bigotry and injustice is, in my opinion, immoral---not principled pragmatism.

I've said all I intend to say. Have a good evening.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
68. I am open to discussion.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:23 PM
Aug 2017

However, the discussion at hand is not "let's all whip it out and compare our Progressiveness." The point was "Let me share a story of how we found an opportunity for us to discuss with our children the insidious nature of propaganda."

Predictably, there followed a parade of high-minded individuals (several with notably low post-counts) tripping over one another to declare that it would be impossible for them to eat at such a place, and I should have done this and I should have done that.

Further, every single one of them--including you--has dismissed my own understanding of the community where I've lived for 14 years. How fucking patronizing is that?


barbtries

(28,787 posts)
33. without asking them to change it
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:03 AM
Aug 2017

you can let them know it's offensive to you. i have done this at a car repair shop in NC and a hotel in MT and the channel was changed. it was just assumed that it had to be that way. you can even recommend HGTV or the food channel and just get them off the news entirely.

you might easily not be the first. even there.

I am in a bigger city in NC and have and take the option of not frequenting places where they're streaming fox news. After watching the brainwashing of my dad yesterday my resolve is even more firm.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
85. But you wouldn't have to listen to it
Mon Aug 14, 2017, 07:06 AM
Aug 2017

I would find it very unpleasant for a restaurant to be running the TV out loud - I suppose it is at least silent?

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
86. Yes, the volume is down
Mon Aug 14, 2017, 07:09 AM
Aug 2017

You can read the crawl, but you can overlook it readily enough.

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, our kids are more politically aware than I was at their ages, so the presence of Fox News, however vile, is always an opportunity to discuss the extremism of the Right.


And this restaurant has the best burgers in 20 miles, so there's that.

Timmygoat

(779 posts)
8. I have made a rule
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:44 AM
Aug 2017

To never eat at a place where FOX is on TV, our local fast food places always have it on, when I asked them to change the channel they told me they were not allowed to. Never went there again.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
9. Yes, yes, yes, I know.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:48 AM
Aug 2017

Everyone except me would do the right thing and take their business elsewhere. Fine. Everyone is more progressive than I am. I get it.

The reason for the OP, however, is to discuss media spin, and somehow only one reply has understood this. It's a lot easier for everyone to jump up and and tell me how much more righteously they would choose their favorite lunchtime spot. I get it.

I'm happy to let people scold me for shamelessly dumping my money into Murdoch's pockets by way of the chicken sandwich I ordered yesterday, but for just one moment can we consider the actual point at hand?


cab67

(2,992 posts)
10. For me, it's not just a matter of "doing the right thing."
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:59 AM
Aug 2017

I've been places where Fox 'News' was on. It ruined the experience for me. I never went back, not as a matter of protest but because I just didn't want to have to watch that shit.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
17. That's your choice, of course.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:21 AM
Aug 2017

Since the volume is turned down, it's easy enough to ignore, and generally we do so.

If I avoided every business that broadcasts Fox in my town, I'd have to pick different convenience stores, retail stores, mechanics, doctors, grocery stores, hospitals and restaurants at the very least.


redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
79. Where I live I would not be able to go anywhere because FAUX
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:51 PM
Aug 2017

Is on everywhere. Some of the posters on DU don't know what it's like to live in the reddest county in the reddest state. I can ignore it when the sound is down but I do avoid places where the sound is up.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
84. Thank you--that's it exactly
Mon Aug 14, 2017, 07:04 AM
Aug 2017

I can't say for sure that I'm the Reddest county, but a "Unite The Right" Nazi rally is happening here next month, so...

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
32. It was a great opportunity for a real-time discussion w/ our sons
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:50 AM
Aug 2017

They're 10 and 13, and they are already far more politically conscious than I was by their age.

The younger son in particular is greatly interested in linguistic shenanigans like this, so he was eager to explore the implications of it.


This was a valuable opportunity for us, and I'm gratified that we were in a position to make use of it. Yes, as some high-minded souls have suggested, we could have engaged in a meaningless protest of conscience, but that would have accomplished nothing.

Instead, we got to have a discussion of the techniques of propaganda as they played out on-screen.

NJCher

(35,647 posts)
41. you used it as a teaching moment
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:22 AM
Aug 2017

as we like to call it in the education field.

There are probably many more available at that place for any future visits.

One might be how, for the most part, people cannot be persuaded. You seem aware of this point.

If people are persuaded (I'm going off academic research, plus over a decade as a maker of tv commercials), they return to their former position. In the persuasive arts, if you want to call it that, it's known as the rubber band effect.



Cher

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
29. Getting real news from Fox uses the same tactics Russians used to get news from Pravda.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:44 AM
Aug 2017

As you demonstrated, it's about HOW the news is presented in the framework of the ideology behind it.

When I was in college an old Russian refugee described how he got the news from Pravda -- just like you did.

He claimed that when read the right way, Pravda was pretty much the most accurate news source. Ideologues will attack the salient points against them directly rather than obscure it.

avebury

(10,952 posts)
30. If asking that the channel be changed won't work then you have to out smart
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:46 AM
Aug 2017

the Fox News crowd. If you know ahead of time when you are going to eat there pick a time when you know there is some big sporting event that will be televised. Instead of asking them to change the TV from Fox to a real news channel, ask them to change to the sporting event. Others will be less apt to ask that the TV be turned back to Fox because a lot of people like sports. They won't be smart enough to relalize that the real intent is to just get the TV off of Fox and you might reach your goal in a less confrontational manner. And if you can pick a time when it is a local sporting event that is even better because anyone else asking that the channel be turned would look like a heel.

I would recommend planning to dine out there based upon the tv sports schedule.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
31. Great idea! I've gotten into turning over National Enquirer as a daily routine now.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:49 AM
Aug 2017

Anything that disrupts the pervasiveness of the propaganda is a good thing!

appleannie1943

(1,303 posts)
34. Something I read on facebook said a car accidentally hit rioting protesters.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:06 AM
Aug 2017

I immediately responded that no one was rioting, they were walking a couple blocks away from the campus where the demonstrators were and the car started a couple blocks away with a spin of tires and accelerated for two blocks picking up speed before plowing into people on purpose.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
40. My older son made exactly the same observation
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:22 AM
Aug 2017

He's very interested in (and aware of) cars, so when he saw the footage of a Challenger racing down the road, he knew immediately that this wasn't an innocent accident by well-meaning driver.

sarah FAILIN

(2,857 posts)
36. People where I am are claiming the guy was a Bernie supporter
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:12 AM
Aug 2017

And that he drove into the racists.

Facts and reality fly out the door when these insane people get caught. I really don't know what to say anymore to them. Trying to prove the truth to deluded people is futile.

chia

(2,244 posts)
45. "car drives into protesters" is a classic example of deflection of responsibility
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:37 AM
Aug 2017

That's a great catch and very perceptive observation on your part, but then you were an accidental viewer, not the average FOX viewer who wouldn't even pick up on it.

My next thought would be that the writers and commentators at FOX knew exactly what they were doing, but these days, I'm not so sure - maybe they've drunk the Kool-Aid for so long that they really are that self-deceived. I don't know.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
47. Yes, a la "mistakes were made" or "I'm sorry if anyone was offended"
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 12:08 PM
Aug 2017

Your second paragraph makes a good observation--the writers may be programmed to the point that they engage in spin by reflex at this point.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
46. MSNBC First Said A Car Has Driven Into A Group Of Protesters
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:39 AM
Aug 2017

This was probably all the authorities were telling them at first. It was only when they got people on the scene and the cell video surfaced showing the actual ramming that clarity emerged.

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
48. Probably true, with one caveat:
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 12:09 PM
Aug 2017

They kept the headline even while they were showing the video of the car.

Different Drummer

(7,612 posts)
52. Fox definitely gets an A+ in spin.
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 12:55 PM
Aug 2017

One morning not long ago, I was flipping back and forth between CNN. MSNBC and Fox to see what each of them were discussing. Both CNN and MSNBC were all over the Russia investigation. At the same time, Fox was reporting on an issue of national importance--summer water safety.

We all already know this, but I'll say it. When it comes to the Repubs, Fox plays up anything positive while sweeping anything negative under the rug. They reverse this process with the Dems. How anyone can seriously think they are getting the straight story on national/international events from Fox, I don't know.

csziggy

(34,135 posts)
62. For hours afterwards quite a few sources were saying "Multi car accident"
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 02:59 PM
Aug 2017

Which was total bullshit since the videos of the scene were available almost immediately. In particular Brennan Gilmore's video from down the road showed that the car rammed into the crowd after accelerating for some distance.



The drone video shows that the other two vehicles were at a standstill when the Dodge Challenger hit them after plowing throw the crowd.



MyOwnPeace

(16,925 posts)
66. Only 1 man/family in the community?
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 05:42 PM
Aug 2017

What difference can that make?

"One day, an old man was walking along a beach that was littered with thousands of starfish that had been washed ashore by the high tide. As he walked he came upon a young boy who was eagerly throwing the starfish back into the ocean, one by one.

Puzzled, the man looked at the boy and asked what he was doing. Without looking up from his task, the boy simply replied, “I’m saving these starfish, Sir”.

The old man chuckled aloud, “Son, there are thousands of starfish and only one of you. What difference can you make?”

The boy picked up a starfish, gently tossed it into the water and turning to the man, said, “I made a difference to that one!”

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
69. Holy fucking shit do I ever hate parables
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 08:26 PM
Aug 2017

Last edited Sun Oct 8, 2017, 09:44 AM - Edit history (2)

They are fucking worthless except as faux-significant spiritual masturbation.

And I got news for you--that starfish almost certainly perished along with all the thousands of others.

Would the assembled readership please do me the courtesy of accepting that I understand my community in a way that the readers, seated hundreds of miles away, probably do not?

MyOwnPeace

(16,925 posts)
70. We do courteously accept..........
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 09:22 PM
Aug 2017

the fact that you don't have the courage or commitment to take a stand for your own convictions or beliefs if it would interfere with something else in your life or leave you uncomfortable.

And what does that teach your children, with or without parables or spiritual masturbation?

Orrex

(63,191 posts)
73. Don't fucking presume to tell me how to teach my children
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 10:16 PM
Aug 2017

Yes, I could have taught them how to get kicked out of a restaurant for no fucking reason whatsoever except to appease a bunch of anonymous internet busybodies. Would that have satisfied you and your 20/20 hindsight? Because it would have served no other net purpose except to humiliate my children.

Instead, I chose to discuss the nature of propaganda, which I hope even you will agree is also a useful lesson.


Mind your own fucking business, and keep your masturbation and pithy slogans to yourself.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
82. Totally understand
Sun Aug 13, 2017, 11:28 PM
Aug 2017

As I posted above I once lived in a dark cherry red area of an already red state. Asking them to change the channel from fox or talk radio would have just got them to laugh and jack up the volume. Compound that by living in a very small, very conservative town without a car and believe me making waves was not a good idea. My now ex wife absolutely REFUSED to move away from her hometown and so I was stuck there until our divorce.

If some of these posters want to put their necks out and take a stand by all means go ahead.

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