The term alt-left started on racist websites in Nov 2016 for false equivalency

[AnotherMother4Peace]

then "it quickly found its way in the vernacular of Fox news and specifically Sean Hannity". Tom Costello found no one on the left/progressive side using this term to describe themselves. - as reported by Tom Costello on "Live with Hallie Jackson" this morning. I was listening on the fly, and tried to transcribe accurately.

This is important because I'm beginning to hear this term in MSM. It originated on hard right sites for the purpose of false equivalency and framing.

[HopeAgain]

1. Too bad people were using it on here... nt

[DanTex]

6. In a totally different context.

For example, this Vanity Fair article.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/03/why-the-alt-left-is-a-problem

Many liberals, including myself, have used the term "alt-left" to describe people like Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon, etc. who claim to support progressive views but are effectively allies of Republicans. Many alt-leftists actually voted for Trump (see JPR, for example), while others supported the Green Party, which has the same effect of helping Republicans win elections.

The "alt-" in the alt-left also describes the fact that many of these people see the alt-right as allies in battling the so-called "Deep State," share the same unhinged hatred for Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party, and also spread right-wing conspiracy theories like Pizzagate and Seth Rich. On alternative media sites, you will find plenty of alt-leftists defending Trump, or the very least pushing the "Hillary would have done worse" idea everytime Trump does something horrible.

The "alt-left" that the Vanity Fair article, and also that liberals like Joy Reid, Kos, and so on talk about is entirely different from the way Trump uses the term. Trump used the term to try and draw a false equivalency between racism and anti-racism. Which is ironic, because the alt-left shares many of the alt-right's views on "identity politics".

[HopeAgain]

9. Still a divisive term- I've seen it thrown around

with "Bernie Bros," another divisive term.

[DanTex]

12. It's an accurate term, in the way the Vanity Fair article used it.

The division was there before the term, created by people claiming to be progressive who decided to support Trump because of "neoliberalism" or whatever else. That's actually divisiveness, way beyond word usage. Alt-left is fitting because they often use the same conspiracy theories, and the same anti-Hillary and anti-Democratic Party memes as the alt-right.

I guess we could use another term, and now that Trump has co-opted the term "alt-left", I'm guessing that progressive commentators are going to come up with another way to describe far-leftists that help elect Republicans in order to "burn it all down". But the people formerly known as "alt-left" are a real thing, and I'd bet right now you can find them trying to blame Charlottesville on Hillary Clinton.

[jalan48]

22. Sorry, I have to call bullshit on the Progressives supporting Trump. They might have voted Green.

Do you have any proof that Progressives voted for Trump?

[DanTex]

25. I wouldn't describe them as "progressives" myself, of course.

Nor would I describe Green voters as "progressives", hence the term "alt-left." But yes, plenty of self-described "progressives" voted for Trump. And a lot of Green voters express satisfaction that Trump won over Hillary. Check JPR, for example, a lot of them used to post here on DU.

[jalan48]

27. Proof for the assertion that " plenty of self-described "progressives" voted for Trump"?

You seem to be intent on spreading this questionable statement. Why?

[DanTex]

30. Did you check JPR?

I mean, sure, I guess all the Trump supporters there could be lying about having voted for Trump.

[DBoon]

33. or they could be lying about being Progressive

I understand some German Communists made the transition to loyal Nazis. They weren't really progressive either, just attracted to violence and power.

[jalan48]

34. JPR? Seriously? Some anonymous poster says something and you turn it into "many Progressives"?

How do you know they weren't Russian trolls spreading misinformation? I mean, the Russians were the reason Hillary lost, right?

[DanTex]

37. They could be Russian trolls spreading misinformation, I guess.

But they would have had to be at it for quite some time, since before that a lot of them posted here on DU using the same screen names.

JPR is just a microcosm of the alt-left, which is familiar to DUers because the posters there used to be here on DU pretending to be "progressives" before they outed themselves as pro-Trump. But if you check social and alternative-left media, you see a lot of the same sentiments as JPR.

[jalan48]

41. Personally, I have not seen one self-proclaimed Progressive say they were voting for Trump.

Your use of the term, Alt-Left, only furthers the narrative of Trump and Co. Do you actually have any factual information that shows Progressives voting for Trump?

[DanTex]

45. Well then you didn't check JPR like I told you.

You might have to go back to November, but there are plenty of them there. I guess for some reason you think JPR "doesn't count", in which case you can just google "progressives voting for Trump", which will bring up articles like this one.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/wall-street-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-213931

And then there are the ones who voted for Jill Stein, which is also a form of supporting Trump, and who profess satisfaction that they helped Trump defeated Clinton. Again all over JPR, and also all over google, e.g:
http://www.newslogue.com/debate/111

My guess is that the term "alt-left", now that Trump has co-opted it, is probably not going to see much more usage among progressives. In a way it's not good to let Trump define terms like this, but still, when the president uses it in the context he did, it can't really be ignored.

But until that happened, it was a useful and appropriate term for people pretending to be progressives while attacking the Democratic Party and aiding Trump and the GOP.

[jalan48]

46. You want me to check a site where anonymous posters say stuff and accept that as proof?

The Politico article is pre-election and again, one person's opinion. Voting Green was not voting for Trump. It's effect was to split votes away from Clinton and in that sense help Trump. FYI-Progressives are and have part of the Democratic Party for decades. What? You want us to leave?

[DanTex]

49. Not sure what kind of "proof" you're looking for.

I don't have actual photos of them checking "Trump" in the voting booth if that's what you're looking for. All I can offer is news articles and social media posts. So, yeah, if you want to believe that the articles are all wrong and the media posts are all fake, go ahead.

I didn't say voting Green was voting Trump, I said that it was supporting Trump, by splitting away votes like you said. The Green Party doesn't run to win, it runs to help Republicans win. Now, some Green voters are just idiots, but others, like that article I posted, know very well that they were helping Trump, and are proud of the fact they helped elect him. Those people are, quite clearly, Trump supporters, despite the fact that they call themselves "progressive".

And, no I don't want progressives to leave the Democratic Party. I am a progressive.

What I am doing here is defending progressives like Joy Reid who have used the term alt-left appropriately to describe people who call themselves "progressive" but whose actions are to support Trump by attacking the Democratic Party.

[jalan48]

84. We don't have an alt left in this country. Alt Left would be Communism.

[bettyellen]

56. You do realize that JPR came out of DUers- self proclaimed "progressives"

Who, when pressed cannot name a Dem president after FDR that they liked. And curiously hate any candidates pollsters deem viable. I agree that many are fake, but some are real. I know quite a few life that subscribe to that "burn it down" crap.

[YoungDemCA]

99. Bernie Sanders isn't viable? Haven't pollsters found him to be the most popular American politician?

[bettyellen]

102. I'm talking about the future, and he is going to be way too old.

Time for fresh blood.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

16. It orginated on hard right websites for the purpose of creating false equivalency & framing.

Words matter. If "liberals" like this author insist on using the term they are adding mud to the clarity of who's on the side of hate. By using the prefix "alt" it somehow makes both sides the same.

[kcr]

21. What a giant load of shit

What you're doing minimizes what the neo-nazis are doing. Talk about false equivalencies. "Please, everyone. Spare a moment to think of the poor victims being called alt-left by the horrible Hillary shills! They're victims, too!"

[DanTex]

23. I don't read hard-right websites so I wouldn't know. Seems like a case of independent invention.

Not surprising, it's a pretty natural term to use. People like that author or Joy Reid or Kos or other liberals who have used it were obviously not using it as right-wing terminology. They used the prefix "alt" to highlight the similarities between what they called the alt-left and the alt-right: namely support for Trump, a penchant for conspiracy theories, dislike of "identity politics", hatred of Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party, and so on.

Now that Trump has effectively co-opted it, my guess is that it won't be used much more by liberals to avoid the Trumpish connotations. But up until that happened, it was a useful and appropriate term.

[seaglass]

101. Maybe people don't get that there is an alt-left and a left. I'm clear that those who have used it

on the center-left spectrum are not equating the two.

[emulatorloo]

48. 1) Trump is a liar, so keep that in mind. 2) you are left, not "alt-left"

3) Both sides are not the same.

And the people counter-protesting were leftists.

However Could you supply me with a term that describes self-avowed progressives like Jimmy Dore? He hasn't met a rightwing conspiracy theory he doesn't love.

Promotes Seth Rich conspiracy which originated in the bowels of Fox News. Promoted HRC's 'secret' Parkinson's Disease.

Clearly he is not left in the same way you and I and our fellow DU'ers are.


How do we characterize him? Serious question.

"Is Media Failing To Report Hillary's Parkinson's?"

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[bettyellen]

58. It's weird to see people taking Trumps bait on this. And denying that people who called

Themselves "progressive" last year shared RW bullshit and promoted RT. It happened. No amount of gaslighting is going to make it go away.

[emulatorloo]

65. I've been recently told that no one @ DU ever uncritically posted RW sources during primary 2016

Apparently something I completely imagined.

No Fox, no Washington Times. No hanging on to every word of professional liar, Joe DiGenova. All with huge numbers of recs.

I am hard pressed to the recognize posters who posted RW sources like that as progressives. Not the kind of tactics leftists/progressives engage in.

The crazy thing is no DU'ers today are like that, but some folks get so defensive anyway.

[bettyellen]

70. It sucks that the term has been co-opted by Trump- but he also used their complaints about HRC all

The time, and people spread Russian propaganda and CTs. I know people who unapologetically did it in real life and still think they're progressive. He do-opted the jobs cure racism crap too- playing both sides against the middle. And now some are accusing "centrist" Dems of using Nazi phrasing? It's not an accident, this is deliberate.

[kcr]

79. People seriously have short memories

It always gets nasty during primary season on DU, but 2016 was the worst. Posts about her emails. About Bill Clinton's affairs. About what a liar she was. "Fuck her with a brick!" and the gross defense by many of the poster who said that. Many lost their ever loving minds.

[QC]

2. It's also been a very popular term of abuse right here.

A quick search will reveal many longtime DUers using The Donald's favorite slur. I could post links, but you know how that is.

Just put the following string into Google and see: "alt left" site:democraticunderground.com

[WoonTars]

3. Yup. You could almost say it was 'deplorable'...

....

[zipplewrath]

4. False Equivalency

It has unfortunately been picked up here by people attempting to marginalize others.

It unfortunately, and unintentionally contributes to the whole "false equivalency" problem as well.

[BainsBane]

85. Like "establishment," "Third Way,"

corporatist, and neoliberal?

For the record, I hate the term the alt-left. But the way it has been used around here most certainly does not apply to those who stand up to racism.

I find it interesting how many are simultaneously offended by the term and eager to apply it to themselves.

[zipplewrath]

87. No

Well, maybe neoliberal and corporatist. Not sure anyone self identifies as those. But there are people that self identified as Third Way, along with DLC, and now New Democrat. And there are people who self identified as Alt-Right.

[BainsBane]

88. Those terms aren't used to describe people who self-identify

They are used to insult people who care about equal rights, equality, and anything other than the increased privileged of a demographic that already makes well above the national median. Or they are used to attack anyone who doesn't adore their favorite politician. People do it to proclaim themselves superior, and in many cases their arguments begin and end with such insults.

I've been insulted as corporatist and establishment by people who make more money than I'll ever dream of, who have no idea what it's like to be poor, and who have never articulated a leftist position on any issue. I've had those terms hurled at me after telling someone I agreed with them on the issues they listed as qualification for being considered progressive. That particularly vitriolic response, compelled by similar treatment of Chuck Schumer, showed me there is nothing they despise more than having people they believe inferior to themselves agree on issues.

Then they cry victim when they don't like terms they think apply to them. It's rather bizarre they've so eagerly decided Trump was referring to them as "alt-left" when they didn't protest in Charlottesville and rarely if ever express concern about racism or the rise of fascism in America. Trump wasn't talking about them. Yet they had to make the events in Charlottesville, like everything else, about them.

[leftstreet]

10. +1 The term needs to be RETIRED from DU

[G_j]

11. in fact

I do believe the first time I heard it was here.

[white_wolf]

63. When I heard Trump use it my first thought was "does he read DU?" N/t.

[riderinthestorm]

17. Oh yes it was. It's also still used frequently on Twitter by bitter folks wanting division

It's an ugly and divisive term designed to alienate people we are going to need as allies in upcoming elections.

[kcr]

24. But comparing Hillary supporters to Neo-nazis is perfectly fine n/t

[riderinthestorm]

54. No. No it's not.

Not sure where that response came from

[kcr]

72. I'm describing the equating of Trump's use of alt-left

with the use of it here at DU. I'm trying to show exactly how not alike it actually is, and how the attempt to equate them is a smear itself.

[bettyellen]

75. Some people here are making that connection, and it's nonsense. Trump co-opts

Whatever he can- he's been using the very same "corporatist" and "Goldman Sachs" rhetoric people here used- the anti HRC same RT crap- and they ignored a fascist was coopting their smears against Dems. Now they pay attention? Please. They're actually falling for his propaganda a second time.

[DanTex]

28. Actually, it's used to describe bitter folks wanting division.

For example, Jill Stein supporters. The term "alt-left", as used by progressives on twitter, describes those who try to help Trump and Republicans politically by attacking the Democratic Party with terms like "neoliberal" and "corporatist" and so on, and spreading conspiracy theories like Pizzagate and Seth Rich. I'm sure you've come across some of them.

[R B Garr]

42. Yes, "bitter folks wanting division" was such an ironic

choice of words there.

[riderinthestorm]

57. I have but they aren't truly left or progressive then are they?

And fwiw, I dont think criticizing the Democratic party puts one in the same camp as the nutjobs who believed Pizza gate or the Seth Rich conspiracy.

Conflating them is lazy and divisive imo.

[DanTex]

61. They claim to be (see JPR, for example).

They use leftist rhetoric, but I wouldn't describe them as actually leftist or progressive. They have more of a "burn it all down" mindset, one of the things they have in common with the alt-right.

And I didn't conflate those two things, I just put them in a list. Those are two characteristics of the alt-left. One is throwing words like "neoliberal" around to attack Dems. Another is the Seth Rich stuff. Yet another is responding to everything Trump does with "Hillary would have been worse". Obviously those three are different things, and a particular individual might exhibit all or any or some of those behaviors. But there is a correlation.

[riderinthestorm]

64. Ah. Ok. I don't write off anyone - I've even persuaded Trump voters to see their mistake

But carry on

[G_j]

76. so you are using a meme created by the racist right

and doubling down on it. why?

[DanTex]

77. I don't know its origin, I've only seen it used by progressives like Joy Reid and Kos and here on DU

And I'm using it in the same way that they did. Take it up with Joy Reid and the other progressives that use the term. If the racist right independently came up with "alt-left" I don't see how that's Joy Reid's fault.

In fact, by your own words, you also first heard it used here on DU by fellow progressives, so you understand exactly what's going on.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9471593

But I'm welcome to other suggestions as to what to call the people that progressives have been calling alt-left, now that Trump appears to have co-opted the term.

[G_j]

80. In terms of Trump's use of it,

Steven Colbert: There is no "alt-left", they're called "not-nazis".

[DanTex]

81. Yes, that's Trump's use. Not mine, or Joy Reid or Josh Marshall.

Should we let Trump redefine a term that progressives have been using for some time now to mean something entirely different? Well, maybe not, but truthfully we probably have no choice, because from now on the term will be associated with Trump. So we probably need a new term for "the people that progressives formerly called the alt-left". I'm open to suggestions.

[G_j]

82. A few progressives maybe..

but I've seen it used here very inappropriately in broad brush smears. Since it's meaning seems to vary depending on those who use it, and it was originally invented by the right, I think it should be retired.

[Arazi]

83. Agreed 100%

It's been weaponized here and elsewhere, and long before Trump used the term

[seaglass]

103. I cannot believe you of all people have chimed in on this topic. Alt-left, those who espouse

progressive values but vote in a way that harms progressive values - kind of like writing in a candidate in the GE who can't possibly win thus contributing to a Republican win.

I don't care if I get a hide, I'm sick of you pretending to be an ally when you wrote in Bernie in the GE. From JPR

Rider replied to the topic Something Very Strange Is Happening. in the forum General Discussion Tuesday, Nov 22, 2016, 10:01am UTC
>
> Righteous rant Sabrina. I wrote in Bernie because I truly believed he was the best candidate and the true winner
>
>
>
> Rider replied to the topic Trump has repeatedly called for the execution of Snowden in the forum General Discussion Friday, Nov 11, 2016, 12:14pm UTC
>
> And I can personally attest that you have utterly withdrawn from DU except to host the Bernie Sanders group.
>
> Fyi Autumn I’ve now said out loud that I wrote in Bernie (in IL I had that luxury) but that won’t escape DUers notice. If/when DU gets going, and if Skinner keeps the DNC loyalty enforcers in power, I’m one hide away from being FFRd. Which…[Read more]

[stranger81]

74. Centrist Democrats have been slapping this label on those to their left for almost a year now.

The New Republic calls it out today:

https://newrepublic.com/article/144361/liberals-helped-create-trumps-new-bogeyman-alt-left

[TheBlackAdder]

92. Wow! There's a lot of defensive posts on this thread. I wonder why?

[BootinUp]

5. Of course, that's where dickheadnazi

Got it.

[procon]

7. I'd never heard the term until Trump said it.

Its not surprising that Trump gets his marching orders from Fox news. Trump is not a leader, he's not a thinker, and has no core beliefs, and that makes his easily exploitable by people who are clever enough to know that Trump is little more than an organ grinder's monkey.

[LovesPNW]

8. A nice little comment found on Facebook

Nazis: "Let's commit genocide."

Antifa: "Let's not."

BLM: "Please stop shooting us."

Republican Trump supporter: "I cannot tell these guys apart."

[AnotherMother4Peace]

14. Huh? What is "BLM"? peaceful/rational Trump supporters?

Who is antifa - where did the term originate? Who are the people under those black masks?

I don't understand this post...

[Voltaire2]

90. BLM Black Lives Matter

the movement that started a few years ago, organized around bringing an end to the out of control police violence against african americans.

ANTIFA = is a new organization that has organized explicitly to oppose the resurgent fascist movement in the us.

[DBoon]

36. Good post

Though I would say:

Antifa: We won't let you!

[m-lekktor]

60. The version I saw over and over said "Centrist" instread of "Republican Trump Supporter"

for the "I can't tell these guys apart".

[ismnotwasm]

13. I think of the alt-left as Jill Stein, or as far as DU all of those shitheads at JPR

That aspect of the left that dismissed social and racial justice as an afterthought of economics, spun the same bullshit as the right about Hillary Clinton. I never felt they were progressive in the strict meaning of the word--actual progress--it was more look-at-me stuff. I also felt it was done internally to separate themselves from your average liberal Democrat, as many of these folks I'm thinking of seem to despise the Democratic Party.

Maybe they need a new name, like the fake left. We can control the framing that way.

[LostOne4Ever]

15. Alt left is meant to put liberals on the same level as the alt-right

Anyone describing any liberal using this term should get a hide.

[riderinthestorm]

18. +1 nt

[temporary311]

19. Agreed.

No one here should be catapulting nazi propaganda.

[R B Garr]

20. What about the thread on the front page of GD with 70 recs entitled,

"I am the alt-left, Mr. President"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029470284

[LostOne4Ever]

73. That was a deconstruction of the president's comments

It not only showed how idiotic the president's comments were, but that the counter-protesters were not in any way shape of form on the same level as the alt-right.

That said, I am all in favor for hiding any post from Donald Trump.

[R B Garr]

78. So not hideable, thanks. nt

[LovesPNW]

69. +1000

Exactly

[geek tragedy]

26. regardless of its origins, it now needs to be discontinued as the orange animal is now

trying to weaponize it.

[TubbersUK]

29. [phone] n/t

[R B Garr]

31. Ah, so "centrists" is an okay thing now.

[geek tragedy]

35. how did you get that from my post?

also, some people are centrists. There are not a lot of them, and the term is subjective and prone to being abused, but it's not a per se pejorative.

[R B Garr]

38. I've seen "centrists" used as a slur quite a bit more than you claim. nt

[geek tragedy]

40. that's more garden variety lefty purism than anything

much less consequential than the need to unite to defeat Nazism

[R B Garr]

52. Actually, it looked like carefully crafted divisiveness used to separate

certain "lefties" from mainstream Democrats who were held in contempt. Now it looks like those "centrists" or mainstream Democrats are okay, which is good to see.

It was obvious Trump attracted white supremacists since they were all over his rallies. Before he took the Oval Office was the best time to unite to keep him out. He is an obvious con man, so he's just flailing with the "alt-left" comments.

[geek tragedy]

55. Sanctimonious leftwingers have always been a thing.

Nothing carefully crafted about it.

He's flailing with the alt-left comments, but now we can't use the term precisely because he's using it.

[R B Garr]

66. "corporatist" and "neoliberal" slurs look more prominent since 2015.

Those slurs should also not be used since Trump has exploited them, as well, since he obviously sees the division they created.

[geek tragedy]

68. their terminology changes

it used to be DLC, or Vichy Dem, or "Third Way" etc.

[Voltaire2]

91. what term would you prefer for the political position that is to the right of the left and to the

left of the right?

"centrist" is not a pejorative, it is a standard description of a position on the left-right political axis.

I have no problem with being labelled a leftist. I'm a leftist. There is no political organization or movement calling itself the "alt-left". That term was an invention of the "alt-right" movement, and they loudly proclaim themselves to be the alt-right, and they created "alt-left" to provide a false equivalency talking point, one recently used by Trump.

The alt-right is promoting racial and ethnic and religious intolerance, authoritarianism, and white supremacy. There is no equivalent movement on the left. There is no "alt-left". It is a right wing authoritarian talking point.

We are asking people here to stop using the term. Is that really too much to ask?

[R B Garr]

93. ffs, centrist is used as a divisive and sanctimonious

insult. It's used to mock people who are not socialists to imply they are out of touch. Look at the lecture you are giving me as if I can't watch events and see for myself what is going on. GMAFB.

Providing a textbook definition of a word hardly describes how it's used in real life. Reality is a thing. And more "centrists" saw through what a con job Donald is long before now, but glad you're finally seeing it.

Edit. and spare the lecture about where alt-left originated because it hasn't been proven.

[Voltaire2]

94. What term would you prefer for people in the center?

Since you've made the request to stop using alt-left a whatabout "centrist" complaint, what term do you prefer for people in the political center?

[R B Garr]

95. Again?? By your new literal and simplistic standards, alt is just short for alternative,

so what's the big deal. Alternative has a dictionary definition, so just go with that.

[Voltaire2]

96. So the answer is "no" you will continue to propagate

a right wing trope intended to normalize fascism. Ok. I have no idea why, but whatever.

[R B Garr]

97. Yeah, Im not buying the obtuseness.

Welcome to DU.

[emulatorloo]

59. Agreed

[David__77]

32. It's been used to imply that some people on the left are white supremacists.

I think that it should, and largely will be, retired by Democrats now that that weaponized term was appropriated by Trump.

[grossproffit]

47. What about extreme left? Should that be banned, too?

[David__77]

50. I didn't call for banning anything.

I just gave my opinion on how the term "alt left" had been used. All these terms, and whatever comes with them, convey viewpoints.

[Expecting Rain]

67. No, it is recognizing that some on the regressive left, like Susan Sarandon, Jill Stein, et al

Believe that their best (and only) chance of coming to power is to send politics to the utter extremes and that as a calculated move it was better to have an obvious fascist like Trump in power to speed up the chaos ("heightening the contradictions" in alt.left-speak).

So they tore down our nominee and helped Trump get elected.

The strategy is called "Hitler First, Then Us" and it is the hallmark position of the alt.left (many of whom are among us trolling DU).

[BainsBane]

86. clearly that is not how Trump used it

He used it toward people who protested racism.

But your observation points to the fact that term is an oxymoron. What is sometimes referred to as the "dirtbag left" is of course not left at all.

[R B Garr]

100. Exactly! He clearly meant to malign the left --Democrats--period.

It is a bit sadly amusing watching some try to claim that they alone are the target.

[BainsBane]

104. and make themselves the center of discussion

as opposition to Nazis and the opposition to fascism.

[R B Garr]

105. Yes, making it all about them. I was told I was "normalizing facism"

in this very thread by someone who refused to even acknowledge that terms like "centrist" "corporatist" "neoliberal" were also used as nasty slurs. They weren't repeated as dictionary clarifications. They were divisively used, along with insinuations that anyone who wasn't a socialist was a RW'er.

Now, just because Donald-the-con-man uttered "alt-left", now it's a tangent only about them. Trump clearly meant to blur lines so that anyone protesting the Nazi's was labeled as extreme. You nailed it.

edit: and wasn't "economic justice" their focus?

[BainsBane]

106. Propping up hierarchy takes a lot of double talk

Last edited Thu Aug 17, 2017, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

and that is what this is, a political ethos predicated on the notion that a chosen few are superior to the many. The only slurs that matter are toward them. They can call others whatever terms they want because they are superior. The events in VA have to be made about them because no one else matters.

I glanced up and saw where you were having that discussion. After seeing him continually insist that the party needs to abandon support of equal rights for women to "win," I have nothing further to discuss with him. He has also insisted women and people of color in leadership positions hurt hurt the Democratic "brand" because they turn off the voters he thinks the party should reach. Who is put off by equal rights and seeing women and people of color in leadership positions? Bigots. That's who.

So we go from being told we need to accommodate bigots to seeing a horrific outburst of Nazism in VA. And while the rest of the country is trying to discuss racism and the White House's sanction of it, they decide the focus must be not on fascist racism or hate crimes but them, even though Trump's comment was not directed at them in anyway. While there may be a number of explanations for why people refuse to think of anyone but themselves, none of them can be attributed to leftism, which at its essence is about equality, not the privilege of the few.

[melman]

98. Unfortunately

I don't think it will be retired. As we see in this thread and others, there's a lot of, 'It's bad when he does it. But when we do it it's different'.

[raven mad]

39. Well, I really prefer radical damn leftist hippie chick.

But that's too much of a mouthful for Repukes to manage.

[Gothmog]

43. The term alt-Left is bogus

[grossproffit]

44. Cynthia McKinney? What's the proper category for her?

[David__77]

51. "former congresswoman from Georgia and Green Party supporter?"

Does there need to be a neat and tidy term?

[grossproffit]

62. Hate spewing antisemitic pig?

[David__77]

71. That's something someone can say.

All these terms, and whatever comes with them, convey viewpoints.

[The_Casual_Observer]

53. bannon would be big on that term.

[Bladewire]

89. Trumps use of alt-left is to empower the alt-right

The Electoral College was created to protect us from a POTUS like Trump.

Now we have a POTUS lying every day and empowering fringe groups to feed his ego and take attention off his corruption investigations.

We'll make it through this, America's been through worse.