"Made in America" is a very strong message.

[kentuck]

Without saying it, it focuses voters' attention on the jobs that have been lost overseas. It harkens back to the time when we were the #1 manufacturing country in the world.

Also, without saying it, it reminds people that Mitt Romney outsourced jobs overseas. Americans generally do not like that idea. This is not good for Romney. "Made in America" should be a slogan for this election. Let the Republicans dispute it if they dare.

[Brickbat]

1. While people understand in the abstract that "jobs have been lost," I think more people need to

realize just how pervasive crap from China is. I know so many people who are still surprised that their Levi's, Wranglers, Gap, Hanna Andersson, Ikea, whatever branded crap is made in China. I always say everyone needs to take a day and read the "made in" label of what they use, wear, eat and touch. Everything. One day.

[dkf]

2. It means something because it's so rare.

I wonder what the ratio is if you were to go shopping and flip everything to see where they were made.

[Johonny]

3. I think it is a stronger message than ever

In the early nineties being paranoid of things not made in America made you sound xenophobic. I hasn't worked in previous election because Republicans ARE xenophobic and MADE IN AMERICA works really well on their base.

Today with US manufacturing so low, people have a much better understanding of why people were worried about total dismantling of the US manufacturing base. Now Republican candidates can be shown to be absolutely contradictory to their message of American exceptionalism. At the same time Democrats can say things like Made in America without worrying about being labeled with calls of xenophobia. We want things made in America not because of some abstract belief in American exceptionalism or pure hatred of other countries and races. We want things made in America because a base manufacturing that is here locally in the USA is part of a fundamental healthy economic system. We don't want everything made in America, but we want sound trade policies, and political policy that recognizes the importance of maintaining base manufacturing jobs like many other Western countries have. 20 years ago Made in America slogans might turn off some base liberals due to its racist undertones at the time. Today people in Occupy Wallstreet and the Tea Party movement both soundly believe in having some base manufacturing in the USA. It is getting harder and harder for conservatives to hide the fact they do not care about the slogan "Made in the USA" beyond its ability to ignite racist images in their shrinking base. People that care about it beyond just xenophobia are starting to OWN THIS ISSUE and I imagine it is very bad news for the right.

[kentuck]

4. Yep.

+1

[justice1]

5. Goods produced by American prisoners should also be labeled as such.

Oregon has forced labor, requiring more than 40 hours of work a week. Companies like Ralph Lauren, can rent the prisoners for $3.00 a day.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Honda of Ohio was using prison labor to compete against my unionized company

I learned pretty quick how tough it is to compete against someone making 3 dollars a day and who had free government paid health care.

Don

[Romulox]

38. Solution? "Free trade" with Korea!

[NNN0LHI]

41. Talking more nonsense, eh?

Must be a habit with you.

Don

[Romulox]

43. Paraphrasing you, friend! nt

[Romulox]

6. How can you pass Free Trade with Korea, and now Trans-Pacific Partnership while pushing

Made in America?

I just don't get the strategy.

[msongs]

7. the strategy is deliver for your corporate owners and lie to the public over and over nt

[amandabeech]

27. How true! n/t

[NNN0LHI]

10. Are you suggesting we had "fair" trade with Korea before this?

Purchase an American made imported car in Korea and you had better be prepared for a tax audit. Because one was surely coming.

That is how it has worked there.

And it doesn't sound very fair either.

Don

[Romulox]

11. You know *damn well* that "free trade" with Korea will put Americans out of work. Just like NAFTA.

I *HATE* the pretend game.

[NNN0LHI]

12. You avoided answering my question

Which is alright.

By avoiding my question that answers it for me.

See ya later.

Don

[Romulox]

13. And I'll take your non-answer as a concession that "free trade" with Korea will cost jobs.

I guess if it's "our guys!" job-obliterating free-trade deal, it's ok (what with an election coming up and all.)

[HiPointDem]

18. that you got screwed in the 80s doesn't mean that this deal won't screw more people.

[NNN0LHI]

21. No success getting an answer from the poster above so I will try it with you

Are you suggesting we had "fair" trade with Korea before this?

Don

[HiPointDem]

22. no. trade has always been managed for the benefit of the biggest boys on the block. and from

the 80s that was finance capital -- not productive capital.

but *you* seem to be suggesting that because there has never been "fair" trade, this deal doesn't matter, and won't make things worse.

it does, and it will.

[NNN0LHI]

23. What do you recommend doing about this decades old trade imbalance then?

I am open to all ideas to improve this.

But doing nothing is no longer an option.

Don

[HiPointDem]

25. i recommend the organization of the working class outside the direction of the bought-off union

leadership orgs.

there is *no* other option for real change that benefits the working class but that they organize to fight for their own interests.

[NNN0LHI]

30. You are saying our unions are bought off and corrupt

Now where have I heard that before?

That sure doesn't sound like much of an answer to fix our decades old trade imbalance with Korea.

Sounds more like a right wing talking point.

Don

[HiPointDem]

33. "Sounds more like a right wing talking point." = by design in the stage-managed realm of official

'politics'.

i judge organizations by their deeds, not by their PR or their position in the officially approved oppositional stage play.

'whipsawing' -- not just for labor relations.

[NNN0LHI]

35. I had a discussion about this with one of my oldest and trusted friends just last week over lunch

Went to High School with her. She is an educator at one of the local Universities.

She ask me, "So, Donnie what have you been doing with yourself lately?"

Told her that I spend a lot of time chatting on a liberal website. Then I explained to her that it seemed like there were many anti-union people who post there.

She didn't bat an eye and she said, "Donnie, those aren't liberals."

That got me thinking. A lot.

Don

[HiPointDem]

36. By their fruits, etc. I support labor and unions that support labor. Support of labor means

democratic governance, transparency and education of membership.

Smear me as you like: the anti-union people are the ones supporting the destruction of public workers, free-trade agreements, two-tier wage schemes, etc.

You're right, there are plenty of them on this putatively "liberal" board. That's neo-liberalism, and it's the ruling ideology of our times.

Some people confuse it with traditional liberalism. They're delusional.

BY THEIR FRUITS: The big unions have presided over the destruction of labor. And the leadership of the public unions is following in those well-trodden footsteps.

[Romulox]

37. Um, dude? YOU are the one pushing "free trade". YOU. Who was she talking about, again? nt

[NNN0LHI]

40. You must be confusing me with someone else

I want fair trade no free trade.

Big difference.

I dare you to find a quote where I support free trade.

Don

[Romulox]

42. "Fair Trade" is a fairy tale. You are pushing "FREE TRADE" with Korea. As it exists. In THIS world.

And your excuse is revenge?

[NNN0LHI]

44. What we had when my job and millions of others were shipped out of the country was free trade

Here is an example of fair trade?

Keep in mind I said fair trade not free trade just so there is no confusion later on.

This has been my consistent position of fair trade since forever and I have posted it on DU2 before.

Here is the way it works. Any country in the world can send as many ships full of their manufactured goods they want to here. With one caveat. After that ship is offloaded here it does not go back to the country of origin empty. It gets filled up with goods that have been manufactured here in the US by our workers and worth an equal amount of money. And they can do that as many times as they want to.

Now if the other country doesn't really want our goods being sold in their stores and competing with the products their own workers are manufacturing that is fine too. They can dump it all in the ocean on their way back home for all I care. But they are still paying for that shipment of our manufactured goods regardless of what they do with it.

Now doesn't that sound like fair trade? That is what I would call being on a level playing field.

I hope this isn't over your your head. But I think it may be.

Don

[Romulox]

45. That is not how the "free trade" deal with Korea works. Nor the TPP. You can't just make shit up.

Now doesn't that sound like fair trade?

It sounds like something you've constructed from whole-cloth. The "Free Trade" with Korea you're defending has not a thing to do with the world of make-believe you've constructed, above.

Now if the other country doesn't really want our goods being sold in their stores and competing with the products their own workers are manufacturing that is fine too. They can dump it all in the ocean on their way back home for all I care. But they are still paying for that shipment of our manufactured goods regardless of what they do with it.

Does. NOT. Work. This. Way.

[NNN0LHI]

47. I kind of thought it was going to be over your head

Take care and see you later.

Don

[Romulox]

48. Yes. Your fantasy world remains locked up in your own head. I suggest an insult, then a retreat.

Truly, I have been bested by a great intellect.

[Romulox]

46. PS: I get sick of all this attention-seeking. The only reason there is ambiguity here

is because you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[kentuck]

14. It's still a strong message...

no matter if your points are valid. If both sides do it, this says that it is time to stop doing it.

[Romulox]

15. Right. But Lakoff's "framing" theory suggests every frame introduces its own opposite.

So, for example, Nixon's "I am not a crook!" suggests that just maybe he is a crook.

So when the President brings up trade and outsourcing, claiming he is for American jobs, it necessarily introduces the converse frame--i.e. maybe he isn't for American jobs.

And then BAM--there is factual ammo to back up that negative frame, on some level.

Thus, it is better to leave the issue entirely unmentioned, imo, when one's ideology and one's opponents are so vaguely differentiated.

[kentuck]

16. But, then again...

If your opponent brings that up, they can be challenged to change it. If they refuse, they appear to be hypocrites.

Yes, Democrats have been guilty of making these trade treaties but this could force both sides to see the error of their ways.

Even if Obama has supported these trade treaties, there is no evidence that he has personally gained from them, as is the case with Romney.

Regardless of the history, it is a strong political message at this time. Politicians that fail to see it are blind to reality.

[Romulox]

17. I don't see it. Remember, Obama is trying to pass TPP simultaneously... nt

[kentuck]

19. The Party should vote against him.

No President is right all the time.

[Romulox]

20. Today's Slate: "The Fake Headlines: Neither Obama Nor Romney Is Against Offshoring"

This is precisely the sort of thing I'm referring to...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/14/bain_outsourcing_neither_obama_nor_romney_think_it_s_wrong_so_what_are_we_arguing_about_.html

[kentuck]

24. I recall that Obama said during the last campaign that..

we would need to "make" him do what is right. I think this is one of those instances.

[Romulox]

39. He then abandoned his pledge to renegotiate NAFTA, passed George W. Bush's "Free trade" with Korea,

and began negotiating TPP in secret.

[kentuck]

49. And his supporters said nothing.

It is up to the voters to keep the politicians honest, including our own...President Obama is a lot like President Clinton - he believes in free trade agreements and lower taxes as a stimulus to our economy. The proof is there. We accepted it.

[Romulox]

50. Nonsense. His supporters told us we should either vote for Mittens, else shut our mouths. nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. Damn right!

[4th law of robotics]

26. I'd like all the cameras covering American athletes to be made in America

and the TVs we watch them on likewise made here. Detroit perhaps or anywhere in the rust belt.

That makes perfect sense.

[Zalatix]

28. I hear that. The revolution against foreign outsourcing is on.

[orpupilofnature57]

31. Anybody tell the manufactures of the 1% ?

[orpupilofnature57]

29. What's red , white and made in China ?

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/Uniform-Controversy-Made-in-China-162257345.html

[B Calm]

32. I couldn't agree with you more! C Span

this morning had democratic and republican callers all on the same page with this subject.

[kentuck]

34. The valid points that some folks have made...

leaves the question, Should we surrender a message that is good for our Party and our country simply because our President and many in our Party might believe otherwise? I say bring them to our side. We should not forfeit an issue that could win this election.