General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome of the religious protesters say the anti-fa/anarchists may have saved their lives.
I have read more than one story like this from clergy protesters and their allies.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_fb_top
Brandy Daniels
Postdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA
It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacistsIm guessing somewhere between 20-45 of themcame up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of usit was terrifying, to say the leastshoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.
Less than 10 minutes later, a much larger group of the Nazi alt-righters come barreling up. My memory is again murky on the details. (I was frankly focused on not bolting from the scene and/or not soiling myselfI know hyperbole is common in recounting stories like these, but I was legitimately very worried for my well-being and safety, so I was trying to remember the training I had acquired as well as, for resolve, to remember why I was standing there.) But it had to have been at least 100 of them this go around. I recall feeling like I was going to pass out and was thankful that I was locked arms with folks so that I wouldnt fall to the ground before getting beaten. I knew that the five anarchists and antifa in front of us and the 20 or so of us were no match for the 100-plus of them, but at this point I wasnt letting go.
At that point, more of the anarchists and antifa milling nearby saw the huge mob of the Nazis approach and stepped in. They were about 200-300 feet away from us and stepped between us (the clergy and faith leaders) and the Nazis. This enraged the Nazis, who indeed quickly responded violently. At this point, Sekou made a call that it was unsafeit had gotten very violent very fastand told us to disperse quickly.
While one obviously cant objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or sliding doorstype situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didnt roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggerationI saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.
Rabbi Rachel Schmelkin
Congregation Beth Israel
There was a group of antifa defending First United Methodist Church right outside in their parking lot, and at one point the white supremacists came by and antifa chased them off with sticks.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)that antifa succeeded where they all failed: at combating fascism and protecting others.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)They ALL helped bring attention to their cause.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)But as this article suggests, the ones who are always ringing their hands over proper protest tactics and criticizing groups like Antifa did. Whatever else they may have done in the past, Antifa is the reaosn why there are not more bodies in Charlottesville. And for that, they deserve our respect and gratitude.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)an anarchist.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)Including the Antifa - especially the Antifa.
Their silence is not acceptable.
Condoning violence is a losing issue, in my opinion.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)was it wrong for the anti-fa to defend them with their fists?
kentuck
(111,079 posts)But that does not give license to destroy property, assault innocent people, or resort to anarchy. They are bad apples, probably agents of a foreign nation, and should not be exalted in such a manner, in my opinion.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)standing between them and the Nazis, chasing them off with sticks, etc.
Maybe it should be examined a little more closely?
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)but not with excessive force.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)I simply cannot support violence as a solution.
It sounds like they prevented another "kristallnacht"?
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)I understand completely what you're saying about non-violence being the best approach -- by far.
But if the anti-fa with their sticks and rocks prevented another death, as some of these clergy believe, what then? I don't think the answer is easy. Would it have been better to hold to entirely non-violent principles even if that meant the loss of more lives?
womanofthehills
(8,698 posts)cockroaches" by white nationalists Friday night in Charlottesville. "They saved our lives, actually........
womanofthehills
(8,698 posts)The majority of Antifa are not violent
Years before the alt-right even had a name, antifascists were spending thankless hours scouring seedy message boards and researching clandestine neo-Nazi gatherings. They were tracking those who planted the seeds of the death that we all witnessed in Charlottesville. Agree or disagree with their methods, the antifa, who devote themselves to combating racism, are in no way equivalent to alt-right trolls who joke about gas chambers. Behind the masks, antifa are nurses, teachers, neighbors, and relatives of all races and genders who do not hesitate to put themselves on the line to shut down fascism by any means necessary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/?utm_term=.7dfcb7ccfb29
BumRushDaShow
(128,844 posts)and she mentioned the same thing - that Antifa helped to protect some of the clergy per her conversations with Rev. William Barber and others.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)There are only a few who cause trouble, they are generally black flag anarchists, like black bloc, who became notorious during Occupy.
I just assume those types are police provocateurs anyway, since they produce the same result.
Rank and file antifa and other resisters are community-minded people with a sense of great principle.
Nitram
(22,791 posts)I believe the severity of the situation, and the clarity of the Nazis stated beliefs, were enough to focus their action on the truly dangerous element in the Charlottesville protest.
Nitram
(22,791 posts)The Nazis advertised their plan to employ violence, and I want to thank our radical leftists and anarchists for saving the day. I suspect the police wanted a bloodbath to justify their over reaction to counter protesters in the previous Nazi demonstration.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)And the white supremacists to protect them. My hats off to them. They're the good guys.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)It is the most difficult, and most important, job of every honest and just warrior. Great warriors like these protectors.
Hekate
(90,645 posts)BainsBane
(53,031 posts)What they were up against.
summer_in_TX
(2,733 posts)Good to have the stereotypes corrected. Don't know if the bad actors are agents provocateurs or a few bad actors, but either is quite likely, perhaps even both. Defense against violence certainly justifies self-protective violence.