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Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 01:31 PM Jul 2012

If anybody is wondering why I am such a hard ass about PSU and Paterno,

Last edited Sat Jul 14, 2012, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

it's because I was abused by a close relative when I was a kid. It isn't a marty's badge, a victim's badge or a badge of shame. I think of it as a badge of survival and empathy.

I didn't have anybody I felt I could tell. My abuser was regarded as a wonderful person. I told a cousin 20 years later and she thought my meds for depression were making me hallucinate. I can imagine what would have been said or done if I had brought it up at that time.

It never goes away. Let me repeat that  - IT NEVER GOES AWAY! I don't dwell on it, but it is always somewhere near. When I hear about a case of abuse, I can suddenly be thrown back into that very time. It is beyond scary and disorienting.

This is not an unusual reaction. People who work with the abused see it frequently. I think it's a form of PTSD. Something will act as a trigger and boom, I am that kid again. I can't control it.

Imagine you are an abused person and you go to a PSU football game. That statue of Paterno is not a reminder of the winning tradition. It is a reminder of a terrifying, lonely time. On top of that, a very powerful person is fervently honored even though he could have stopped the abuse.

The most disgusting thing is the how this situation is discussed. People express worry about Paterno's family, his legacy, the university, punishing innocent football players and soon and so on. Then suddenly, the victims are mentioned. They are an afterthought.

The first words out of people's mouths should be a meaningful statement about their welfare. These were kids who were behind the eight ball to begin with. Sandusky knew that and picked those who were most vulnerable. Who stepped up for them when they most needed it?

These kids were treated as things by Sandusky and others. They are still being treated that way. People do this to disassociate themselves from what happened to them. That's how unbearable this is to outsiders. Think what it does to those that it happened to.

Some of those kids probably remained victims and never got beyond it. They were trapped in a miasma of shame and anger. The lucky ones became survivors. Somehow, they were able to move far enough away to function. The abuse is like a shadow though. It is there.

So I don't give a happy damn about the punishment that befalls that culture. Because that's exactly what it is, a culture that thought football was so important that kids were expendable. I have yet to see or hear real change in that culture. 

What I hear is denial, minimization, why bother now?, Joe didn't rape them, Joe was a saint,  only a few people knew, and on and on. Stop it! Unless people face what happened, that culture will remain. 

Kids were raped by a trusted person. They were RAPED. I don't think people have faced that head on. If they had, I would hear something different.

I sincerely hope that you and those you love never face abuse. However, too many of you will. Think of the person you care for the most and imagine this happened to them. That is how people should frame this. Then you might have a glimmer of the horror. The tide of a demand for complete change would be a tsunam.

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If anybody is wondering why I am such a hard ass about PSU and Paterno, (Original Post) Are_grits_groceries Jul 2012 OP
k&r... spanone Jul 2012 #1
It makes excellence ,deadly. Kudos to ya orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #2
Your post is full of righteousness. Brickbat Jul 2012 #3
Thank you for your post, Agg. I hope a lot of people read your words pnwmom Jul 2012 #4
In many ways it is difficult to fully understand something unless you have lived it. Happyhippychick Jul 2012 #5
I haven't lived that and still agree entirely Posteritatis Jul 2012 #10
And unfortunatrely, the man who was Attorney General truedelphi Jul 2012 #61
I LOVE that you are! obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #6
K & R freshwest Jul 2012 #7
k and r nashville_brook Jul 2012 #8
sorry about your experience but thanks for sharing that arely staircase Jul 2012 #9
Exact same reason I have zero sympathy for the guy who did this or the many who covered for him. Bettie Jul 2012 #11
I agree. blueamy66 Jul 2012 #69
I'm right there with you lunatica Jul 2012 #12
k and r panader0 Jul 2012 #13
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It is very courageous of you. randome Jul 2012 #14
K&R speedoo Jul 2012 #15
I agree. It's sickening how others are worried about Paterno and don't mention the crime committed gtar100 Jul 2012 #16
Awesome post, 100% behind you and the de-throning of the status quo...nt StopTheNeoCons Jul 2012 #17
K&R. Chorophyll Jul 2012 #18
+1 the Newspeak minimizes the crime LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #54
k&r nt steve2470 Jul 2012 #19
K&R friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #20
Excellent points Agg. I could give a rats tail about Paterno's legacy. bluesbassman Jul 2012 #21
Absolutely agree with you. Major Hogwash Jul 2012 #22
According to some.. CANDO Jul 2012 #28
Wait! Whut?! Are_grits_groceries Jul 2012 #59
Ah yes, the pouncing begins. CANDO Jul 2012 #66
Meh! Are_grits_groceries Jul 2012 #78
Because I had enough. CANDO Jul 2012 #81
On Meet the Press, Bob Costas said Penn State will probably suspend their football program. Major Hogwash Jul 2012 #79
I hope they dont kill the football program. I think that would be a distraction. Human beings need rhett o rick Jul 2012 #31
I'm sorry people are so heartless and stupid, grits... Whisp Jul 2012 #23
. myrna minx Jul 2012 #24
Its because this terrible situation calls for a hard-ass response riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #25
"tide of demand for complete change" hfojvt Jul 2012 #26
When people *witnessed* the abuse, the "kids were not believed" claim becomes ridiculous. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #41
Thank you for fighting Ilsa Jul 2012 #27
What no one is really talking about in regards to this situation justiceischeap Jul 2012 #29
harsh NCAA sanctions demanded dothemath Jul 2012 #53
To hell with Paterno's "legacy"... richmwill Jul 2012 #30
I am so proud of your articles on this entire scandal malaise Jul 2012 #32
Thank you for the OP and I hope you fully recover from your ordeal. rhett o rick Jul 2012 #33
I am so sorry that you were abused riverbendviewgal Jul 2012 #34
Bless you for having the courage to share this. Punkingal Jul 2012 #35
I'm so sorry for what your family is going through, redqueen Jul 2012 #44
Amen DonCoquixote Jul 2012 #36
K&R aquart Jul 2012 #37
Thank you. DeSwiss Jul 2012 #38
thank you for this post LiberalLoner Jul 2012 #39
K&R D23MIURG23 Jul 2012 #40
THANK YOU! redqueen Jul 2012 #42
k&r Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #43
It was done to the woman I was married to...repeatedly... Ken Burch Jul 2012 #45
Excellent sandyshoes17 Jul 2012 #46
My reading time is precious these days.....reading exhausts me tpsbmam Jul 2012 #47
+1! I have NO sympathy for Penn State and it's fans. Fuck them. Odin2005 Jul 2012 #48
The most corrupting force sulphurdunn Jul 2012 #49
You don't have to explain a thing to me. MADem Jul 2012 #50
I am a mother of two boys one cindyperry2010 Jul 2012 #51
I applaud your courage to speak out. chervilant Jul 2012 #52
maybe things will change when PSU gatta settle with the lawsuits coming soon... opihimoimoi Jul 2012 #55
k&r DesertRat Jul 2012 #56
hugs to you RainDog Jul 2012 #57
I remember the 1960s when people would not want to DebJ Jul 2012 #58
The danger of sports press monopolies and blacklisting Gabby Hayes Jul 2012 #60
Another lesson--becoming a survivor is far easier if you have supportive adults who eridani Jul 2012 #62
I'm so sorry for what happened to you. BeliQueen Jul 2012 #63
K&R SalmonChantedEvening Jul 2012 #64
I understand and agree totally efilon Jul 2012 #65
hard ass is the only reasonable response barbtries Jul 2012 #67
Thank you KeepItReal Jul 2012 #68
You are right. They_Live Jul 2012 #70
Then you'll be very happy about these responses rocktivity Jul 2012 #71
Thank you... Freedomofspeech Jul 2012 #72
Great post. Thanks RVN VET Jul 2012 #73
I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and I agree with every word of your post. yardwork Jul 2012 #74
Said it before and will say it again and again... sad sally Jul 2012 #75
I am so sorry. Parents today are more alert to the problems of JDPriestly Jul 2012 #76
Hey, grits - you don't have to explain or apologize about this to anyone. calimary Jul 2012 #77
I was a victim also, Grits rurallib Jul 2012 #80
excellent post. it was a lesson for youngest son. he went thru all the rationalizations. and we seabeyond Jul 2012 #82

Happyhippychick

(8,379 posts)
5. In many ways it is difficult to fully understand something unless you have lived it.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 01:42 PM
Jul 2012

I don't think there is a punishment that is good enough for what this man did. I absolutely believe that the exact same punishment should be meted out by all who knew and covered it up, they are every bit as guilty as the one who did the raping. I'm only glad that Paterno's reputation, which meant so much to him, is permanently besmirched.

I'm sorry for what you endured, and what you continue to endure. It never does go away, the only thing that gives any positive purpose is to watch out for other who may be victimized as well. And pay attention to your children.

A society can be judged by how we treat our most vulnerable members. These boys have been let down in a most disgraceful way. I hope they sue the school and all who knew into bankruptcy.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
10. I haven't lived that and still agree entirely
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 02:15 PM
Jul 2012

It blows me away that there's people anywhere, never mind here, still defending Paterno, still wringing their hands over the idea of PSU itself facing any consequences that go beyond "slap on the wrist," actually goddamn rioting because their god got sacked.

It's stunning, especially when the consequences Paterno and the school deserve seem so absolutely obvious to me.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
61. And unfortunatrely, the man who was Attorney General
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 03:25 AM
Jul 2012

At that time is now the governor of the state of Pennsylvania. Help cover up a massive crime like this, and you go far in our society.

The Family courts in this nation are a disgrace. And in many places Elder Protection Agencies are also places where in exchange for protecting an elderly person, that victim finds out their home is now owned by the top official at the Elder Protection agency.

Bettie

(16,072 posts)
11. Exact same reason I have zero sympathy for the guy who did this or the many who covered for him.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 02:17 PM
Jul 2012

I was abused by my own father for years.

As a result, as an adult, I have no patience for people who think it is their right to abuse children.

I have no patience or sympathy for priests, coaches, or freaking anyone who thinks that children are their sexual playthings.

I don't care if someone is "important" or "a great coach" or "a mentor" or whatever. If you sexually abuse children, you are a POS. Period.

 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
69. I agree.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:46 AM
Jul 2012

I was abused as a child, by a male babysitter. So was my brother.

What really sux is that my fiance ignores me when I want to talk about it....which has be twice in 10 years.

But it also angers me that most Catholic priests are thought to be molestors....cause my bro was an altar boy and we both went to Catholic school for 13 years......never touched by them....never approached in any strange way

don't know why I'm posting this.....just getting it off of my chest I guess

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
12. I'm right there with you
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 02:22 PM
Jul 2012

I was sexually abused when I was six. I've said it here many times over the years because it's necessary to educate people and to open the door to those who have kept such secrets because of the shame. Sometimes I despair at the cavalier way the victims are dismissed but I think most of them do it out of ignorance, not malice.

I commend you for your OP.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
16. I agree. It's sickening how others are worried about Paterno and don't mention the crime committed
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 02:59 PM
Jul 2012

under his watch. To hell with the football team if that's the sort of "culture" it breeds. If they were so damn worried about their reputations, they should have thought about doing the right thing. But the coaches didn't care enough to speak out when it would have made a difference. The kids just want to play football and have a good time. The institution exploits that with an alternative agenda that apparently makes raping kids something to be swept under the rug. That's fucked up.

Chorophyll

(5,179 posts)
18. K&R.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 03:05 PM
Jul 2012

Great post, and thank you for writing it.

I do find that softening-up the idea of rape by calling it "sexual abuse" is not helping the public to understand. It's like calling torture "prisoner abuse." Pisses me off.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
54. +1 the Newspeak minimizes the crime
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:01 AM
Jul 2012

and we really need to force the media to just call it what it is.

bluesbassman

(19,361 posts)
21. Excellent points Agg. I could give a rats tail about Paterno's legacy.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 04:20 PM
Jul 2012

If he was even remotely involved in any cover up activities or if he just flat knew about it and did not act, his "legacy" will be a deservedly shameful one and PSU deserves what sanctions, penalties, fines and awards are levied against institution. The trouble for PSU is a shame for the thousands of students and athletes who will suffer for it, but there are other schools, and this level of institutional wrongdoing cannot be swept away.

Thanks for sharing your story. It surely must be difficult to discuss, but it's powerful as a first hand experience and brings this whole terrible affair into perspective. I wish you the best as you continue on your healing journey.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
22. Absolutely agree with you.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 04:46 PM
Jul 2012

If Penn State's football program gets "the death penalty", and they can't play football for a few years until the culture changes at that college, so be it.

 

CANDO

(2,068 posts)
28. According to some..
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:12 PM
Jul 2012

NCAA watchers, PSU will not be given the "death penalty". The only school to ever be dealt that blow was SMU in the 80's. They committed serious infractions while already being on probation. Entirely different situation here. What occurred here was crimes committed by an individual and covered up by others. Sandusky will spend the rest of his life behind bars. Paterno's legacy is ruined by his own disregard for the victims. The other 3 individuals will soon face the legal system for their part. The worship of coaches goes on at countless colleges and universities across the country. I surely don't understand how people seem to think this was unique to Penn State. Put the blame where it belongs, with Sandusky, Paterno, Spanier, Curley, and Schultz. Everyone who ever attended PSU or even roots for their teams don't deserve the wrath of those seeking justice. None of this shit is unique to PSU. Far too many college coaches are adulated beyond their worth to this world.

Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
59. Wait! Whut?!
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 02:46 AM
Jul 2012

Too many other colleges do worship coaches. However, don't you dare try to use that as an excuse to minimize what was done and the punishment.

There is an entire CULTURE there that was built up over decades by Paterno. There are assistant coaches who have been there for years. One coach was told a lot and he refused to believe it because Jerry had a heart of gold in his words. Another walked in on Sandusky and a kid in a shower and felt so uncomfortable that he refused to leave them there alone. Don't tell me that the 4 jackasses and Sandusky were the only ones who knew something.

Please take your garbage excuses and go away! Your post literally makes me sick.

 

CANDO

(2,068 posts)
66. Ah yes, the pouncing begins.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 09:57 AM
Jul 2012

I don't believe there was any minimizing of any sort in my post. You are inserting your own over heated emotions into how other people feel about this whole sordid mess. Take out your rage on the guilty parties please. Leave me out of it. Kids were brutally violated and were not protected by those in a position to do so. That makes anyone and everyone directly or indirectly connected to PSU guilty also? I went to exactly 3 Penn State football games in my life. The very last of which just happened to be Paterno's final game as coach. And because I take exception to the attempts by people such as yourself to assign guilt to every person who ever even attended a game as guilty of allowing child rape, you go off and accuse me of "minimizing".

Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
78. Meh!
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 02:49 PM
Jul 2012

I think PSU itself is a world class university. I don't blame the kids who are going there or who will go there. I also don't blame people who went to football games. The problem is how much FB mattered to many and what was allowed to happen. In addition, JoePa had a great deal of power that also protected his players in several cases.

And you are minimizing because you seem to have confined the guilty to 4 individuals. They were the ones who had the most direct responsibility, but others did too.

They had Sandusky on tape admitting to a mother the abuse of her son. This went to the Assistant AG Ray Gricar. He did nothing. Governor Corbett assigned ONE state trooper to investigate. I hope they uncover what he knew.

Sandusky was a coach there for decades. He didn't suddenly become a pedophile overnight. There is no telling how many kids he abused. Pedophiles can't control themselves.

There were rumors about Sandusky for years. Dick Vermeil, an NFL coach, helped out at Second Mile. Even he admitted tht he heard things but discounted them. If it had been kids of prominent peope, I don't think that Sandusky would have been left alone. Nobody even talked to him.

Right now people are referring to what happened as a small event. I have heard them. Others act as if his wins mitigate what happened to these kids. It's not zero sum. Others just refuse to believe any of it.

You yourself have waited to pounce and express your indignation. You have assumed I blame everybody in Happy Valley. I don't, but I believe more than 4 people knew more than they will ever admit.

 

CANDO

(2,068 posts)
81. Because I had enough.
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:10 AM
Jul 2012

The indignation and anger expressed by most people is justified, but when the focus becomes all encompassing including mere fans who attend games, that's where I "pounce". I'll agree to your premise that more people knew. It's just over the top completely for people go broad brush and assume everyone who is a fan was in the "culture". Many if not most fans I've ever talked to, felt Paternoster should've retired at least a decade ago.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
79. On Meet the Press, Bob Costas said Penn State will probably suspend their football program.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 03:26 PM
Jul 2012

For this year, at least.

No other colleges or universities have ever been involved with such a terrible scandal as this, and then covered it up for more than 15 years the way it was at Penn State.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
31. I hope they dont kill the football program. I think that would be a distraction. Human beings need
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:46 PM
Jul 2012

to be punished.

I hope this comes across like I want. I have no love for college football, but killing the program may make some feel that their work is done. Humans (using the word loosely) did this and I think a number of them are responsible and should be punished.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
23. I'm sorry people are so heartless and stupid, grits...
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 04:51 PM
Jul 2012

and don't know what is important and what is not. some stupid game is NOT.
 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
25. Its because this terrible situation calls for a hard-ass response
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 04:57 PM
Jul 2012

from all of us.

You are reacting exactly the way we all should be reacting to this crime, and now the exposure of a monstrous cover-up of the crime.

Your excellent OP deserves to reach 500 DU recs and you deserve 5000 hugs for posting it. I hope that you have many more peaceful days than anguished ones....

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
26. "tide of demand for complete change"
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:06 PM
Jul 2012

What do you think is supposed to change? Get rid of NCAA football or just PSU?

Is there any sort of change that can create perfect safety from the snakes in our midst?

"face what happened". What did happen?

I certainly do not know what happened, nor really how to find out what happened.

"culture that thought football was so important that kids were expendable".

As far as what they knew. Well, you said it yourself "My abuser was regarded as a wonderful person". So then an accusation is made, and there is no direct evidence. So it becomes the word of "a wonderful person" against "somebody I don't even know". People are gonna believe their friend before they believe a stranger.

So, in that sense, it could be less that "kids were expendable" than "kids were not believed".

That makes sense to me. Otherwise I do not know what those people were thinking. To keep him working with kids becuase he was a good fundraiser seems unbelievably demented. I have a hard time believing most people would do such a thing. But maybe JoePa was not a normal person, as it may take a certain amount of ruthlessness to rise to the high position that he had, and those kids would not have been the first, or the only, person he had treated as expendable.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
29. What no one is really talking about in regards to this situation
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:34 PM
Jul 2012

besides the victims is, IMO, the following--money was chosen over child safety. When you get to the PSU level, it's all about the money the university gets from their football program. They receive millions of dollars solely based on their football program and that, IMO, is why it is important for some sort of sanctioning by the NCAA. Because other programs across the nation are watching this situation closely.

If PSU gets away with its actions without any sort of sanctions from the NCAA, it will be a signal to other schools that they can cover up something so horrendous and face no consequences. The ONLY thing that will make other school's take notice to not repeat this behavior is if the NCAA steps in--otherwise, there, unfortunately, is no incentive to change or do things differently.

The NCAA should send a clear message that covering up child rape is just as despicable as paying amateur athletes with gifts, cash, etc. or gambling or any of the other minor (in comparison) actions that the NCAA will sanction programs for.

 

dothemath

(345 posts)
53. harsh NCAA sanctions demanded
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:29 AM
Jul 2012

Great post, justiceischeap, and right on point. The NCAA ought to make it crystal clear there is at least one line that, if crossed, will bring the so-called death penalty. And not just for a year or so. It should be for at least 8 years. The NCAA, whether they realize it or not, is very close to becoming linked with PSU in the current scandal and be pilloried, as PSU will be, for many, many years.

richmwill

(1,326 posts)
30. To hell with Paterno's "legacy"...
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:36 PM
Jul 2012

He was a pedophile enabler. Case closed. Sad that people are willing to forget about that just because he was a good football coach.

malaise

(268,697 posts)
32. I am so proud of your articles on this entire scandal
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:52 PM
Jul 2012

Expose all of them because we know they are more right across the globe preying on people's children while talking about character building and sport.

You have 100% support from me.

Bravo Grits!!!

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
33. Thank you for the OP and I hope you fully recover from your ordeal.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 05:55 PM
Jul 2012

This is a sensitive subject so I am choosing my words carefully. There is nothing more serious than child rape or sexual abuse. But I feel this is about power. Not to diminish what happened but I feel rape is about power. The power to dominate. This can prevail in other areas besides rape. Football programs are also about power. Those that allowed Sandusky to continue, thought that was a power they had. The power to run the football program, the University, the State, was more important than mere children.

If there is a God, and he answers prayers, Paterno's statue will be struck by lightening tomorrow and allowed to stand as a warning.

riverbendviewgal

(4,252 posts)
34. I am so sorry that you were abused
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 06:12 PM
Jul 2012

I myself had a minor molestation by my father's friend and could not tell my parents. I made sure I was never near the man again My dad worshiped his friend.

As for Penn State. It is outrageous what happened to those young people.

I hope they sue Penn State and Paterno's family too and get a huge compensation...We know it can never take away the memory of what happened but it could provide some compensation and justice for the victims.

The statue of Joe Paterno should be taken down.

Penn state should not be able to play football for a few years.

In my opinion Football is too adored in the USA. Education should be encouraged rather than entertaining sports. THis is where the money should going too.

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
35. Bless you for having the courage to share this.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 07:06 PM
Jul 2012

It has given me the courage to speak up as well.

Two of my sons were abused by my nephew, and I didn't find out until years later because their grandmother told them not to tell anyone, and they didn't. Not even me and their dad. They were 3 and 4 years old at the time of the abuse.

She protected her other grandson at their expense, and they still cannot understand why.

Only now, 30 years later are they able to talk about it with me, and I have no answers for them, only apologies that don't help. I feel tremendous guilt.

Nothing is worse than covering up child rape and there is nothing they can do to Penn State to make up for what those soulless men did. Ask anyone who has been abused, or any parent whose child was abused.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
44. I'm so sorry for what your family is going through,
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 07:47 PM
Jul 2012

and what your poor sons have been through.

You didn't know, please don't feel guilt. If you had known you would have prioritized their needs over their abuser's ... whatever. You know this.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
36. Amen
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 07:18 PM
Jul 2012

If we do not pursue this, than people will not be able to have their kids anywhere for fear of chickenhawks. That will make a very scary, sad society.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
37. K&R
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 07:22 PM
Jul 2012

I was a very sheltered child because one of my parents was molested as a child. I didn't even know it or why till decades later.

But once I knew, I could see the marks of it everywhere.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
42. THANK YOU!
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 07:46 PM
Jul 2012

I can't even form the words to express how much I agree with this post. Thank you so much.


If you haven't seen this, you might appreciate it.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2011/12/dale.php

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
45. It was done to the woman I was married to...repeatedly...
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 08:17 PM
Jul 2012

You are damn well entitled to be hard on Paterno...he betrayed hundreds of powerless, helpless children, and he acted like he had divine sanction to do so. Even worse, people all over Western Pennsylvania and the nation disgraced themselves by rising in Paterno's defense...as though a winning college football team was more important than protecting the most vulnerable among us all from abuse and misery.

Paterno can rot in somewhere WORSE than Hell, as far as I'm concerned...so may everyone else who was like him, everyone who ever knew of something like this and deliberately LOOKED THE OTHER FUCKING WAY!!!!!!!

Bastards...all of them...all of the powerful enablers of abuse...

No amount of hugs and sympathy can make up for what the victims of those they protected went through.

I only hope that, in time, you can find SOME healing...because that's the only possible victory those who went through what you went through can ever have over those who inflicted your pain.

I'm so sorry and so very very very angry for the experiences you all had. You lost your childhoods and parts of your souls. Please, in whatever way you can, be well.

tpsbmam

(3,927 posts)
47. My reading time is precious these days.....reading exhausts me
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 08:29 PM
Jul 2012

thanks to MS that has robbed me of the ability to do a lot of one of the things I love best.

So, when I get to long posts, I often will skim, frequently don't read through the whole post, will often go to the link and send that on to others and maybe post it on FB or Twitter.....

I read through your post slowly, taking in everything you said and every emotion you conveyed.

I felt it at my very core and sent it on to share with others as I think it needs to be read more widely.

Yours is a courageous, eloquent and needed response to all who continue to minimize & excuse these horrific crimes, including the crime of covering it all up and letting it go on and on.

Thank you.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
49. The most corrupting force
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 10:47 PM
Jul 2012

in college football is television revenue and the money television brings to the football programs that fund the the rest of the athletic programs at major universities. Compared to television, the alumni, hoodlum players and perverse coaches come in a distant second and would not be Teflon coated but for television revenue. Although there are exceptions, most coaches are only fired for lost television revenue due to losing seasons, not aiding and abetting criminal activity.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
50. You don't have to explain a thing to me.
Sat Jul 14, 2012, 11:36 PM
Jul 2012

I lived a charmed life, never got molested, always travelled in a pack, took the warnings of my parents to never take candy or rides from strangers to heart, knew when to run away....but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there are people who are evil and who wish to harm children.

And those people deserve the fullest measure of justice that can be meted out to them. Little kids should be left alone, they deserve to have an expectation of safety and security while they grow. I think that's one of the worst possible crimes, frankly.

So, sure--fuck football, fuck Paterno, fuck Sandusky, fuck 'em all. Give that football program the triple death penalty. If a football culture can conceal perverts who brutalize kids, then that's a culture that needs to GO.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
52. I applaud your courage to speak out.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:06 AM
Jul 2012

Child abuse is rampant in our species, in large part because so many of us are in deep denial about both the actual occurrence of child abuse AND about how pervasive is this horrific crime. Think how much more denial occurs when the perpetrator is a trusted friend or family member.

For those of us who are SURVIVORS of childhood sexual abuse, the pain of these experiences remains with us for the duration of our tenure on this earth. Survivors must find their own measure of recovery, often without the support of family or friends. In fact, here are a few of the messages I got after my baby sister outed our abuser (and, I had no idea he had also abused my two younger sisters):

"I cannot BELIEVE that Homer (name changed to protect his adult children) would do such a thing!"

"Did you like it?"

"Why did you let him do that to you?"

"He says you seduced him."

"I never let Homer get to me!" (this from my baby sister, because our abuser never raped her vaginally)

To this day, many members of our family--and some of our family's friends--blame me, my two sisters, and virtually ANYONE else other than the abuser.

For those of you who continue to pontificate about "who's to blame," or what you might have done if you had witnessed the rape of a ten-year-old boy: you can channel all of your anger and disgust to a positive end: be an advocate for ALL children. Learn to recognize the signs of abuse. Be a Big Brother or a Big Sister. Most importantly, ALWAYS BELIEVE a child who tells you that Uncle Homer "makes me do yucky stuff."

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
57. hugs to you
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:47 AM
Jul 2012


I entirely understand what you are talking about regarding abuse and being emotionally put back into a time and space - even when the abuse isn't sexual.

It is a form of PTSD.

People associate PTSD with the military because it's easiest to see and understand the manifestation of it there - but there are other circumstances that also bring about the cluster of symptoms that people know as PTSD.

The stories of vets who act out in ways that relate to their trauma are not the only way such traumas are revisited.

Most people are not violent and would never be - but they can be and are justifiably angry and deeply sad at the same time.

You don't have be have been a victim of child sexual abuse to know and understand exactly what's going on with you - and know that what went on at Penn State is an example of how American society has serious problems with priorities - and those priorities are based upon money and power.

Money and power matter more than people in American society. We see this over and over.

Until laws protect people - we will see this dynamic acted out in various ways over and over.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
58. I remember the 1960s when people would not want to
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 02:31 AM
Jul 2012

openly discuss child or spouse abuse, and would excuse it away.

Nothing changes until people are FORCED to face, admit, talk about the truth of matters.

The icing on the top of the cake was that an abused woman who divorced her husband
was then doubly scorned. All divorced women were generally perceived as being
sluts, devious, and the like.

Thank goodness it isn't that way today...........but it could be again.............vigilance.

Gabby Hayes

(289 posts)
60. The danger of sports press monopolies and blacklisting
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 03:02 AM
Jul 2012

Somewhere out there are some sportswriters who knew and kept quiet, or they spoke up and lost their job and/or career.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
62. Another lesson--becoming a survivor is far easier if you have supportive adults who
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 04:22 AM
Jul 2012

--BELIEVE you. Everyone needs to realize that and act on it. Blowing off kids' experiences is often as bad as, or worse, than the abuse itself.

BeliQueen

(504 posts)
63. I'm so sorry for what happened to you.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 07:33 AM
Jul 2012

I agree with you completely. It's not just a slap in the face of the Sandusky victims and survivors, but all victims and survivors.

For the sake of their own souls, I pray that the apologist will stop trying to minimize this tragedy because there's a malignancy that takes hold of you when you start down that path.

efilon

(167 posts)
65. I understand and agree totally
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 09:14 AM
Jul 2012

with where you are coming from. I too am a survivor of sexual abuse. The first time it happened I didn't know what was going on. I was 9 at the time. This person continued to molest and tried to rape me many times. Many pedophiles don't quit as their prey grow up, the last time this happened to me I was 23 years old and had a child. Also, I was not the only victim, there were many more but I guess I was his favorite because he knew no one would ever do anything about it no matter how much I cried and pleaded.

I know about not being able to tell. My problem was that everyone in the family knew, including my father and mother. He was my oldest sister's husband. I could never get over the fact that she was more important than me. I also agree with you that it NEVER goes away. I have been through years of therapy and still a sound or a smell can take me back to that time.

I know how those kids felt when they "knew" that other people knew what was happening to them and didn't help them. I have always felt like the throw-away kid in the family. If Paterno knew and did nothing in order to protect Penn State and their football program anything idolizing him, statues, building names and anything else glorifying him should be removed from that campus.

Denial and minimization is the pattern that happens with nearly every child which serves to make their self esteem even lower. I too hope that no one ever has to go through with this but know that many are suffering right now. Think of your 9 year old daughter, son or niece, nephew being raped over and over again and then tell me about how wonderful Joe Paterno was. One of the sad things is that I still see all my family members and we act as if nothing ever happened. Many times at family functions I want to scream at them all but know it would only serve to make me look like the fool they think I am.

I am rambling and whining here but just want people to know how horrible this is to the children. When no one helps, they feel like losers the rest of their lives. Not always, but often enough to make them feel less of a person.

I'm sorry for what happened to you Are_grits_groceries. It's a damned shame that the adult in the situation doesn't feel the pain they have caused their victims. Most of us survive but some are lost forever to a life that they would never have chosen for themselves.

barbtries

(28,769 posts)
67. hard ass is the only reasonable response
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 10:46 AM
Jul 2012

to what went on at Penn State. i'm up to page 96 of the Freeh Report. it is utterly shocking to note that the victims in this episode were NEVER on the radars of the people in charge at penn state. they SHOULD pay. their name SHOULD be sullied. and as far as i'm concerned prospective students should look for a healthier place to attend school.

KeepItReal

(7,769 posts)
68. Thank you
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:36 AM
Jul 2012

For surviving and educating others.

There should be prosecutions for everyone that minimized or turned a blind eye.

They_Live

(3,224 posts)
70. You are right.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:06 PM
Jul 2012

I hope that Sandusky's wife is prosecuted also. Another enabler who must have known what was happening...for YEARS.

rocktivity

(44,572 posts)
71. Then you'll be very happy about these responses
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:08 PM
Jul 2012

Last edited Wed May 18, 2016, 12:43 AM - Edit history (3)

to the editorial that Paterno's son Jay wrote in USA Today:

  • This is nothing but blind devotion to a parent. I think deep down (he) knows his dad was (a) football-at-all-costs hypocrite.

  • Dude is in DENIAL! Your daddy was a scumbag who helped another RAPE KIDS! Penn State needs to take his statue down and melt it down for SCRAP!

  • He might not have covered up for Jerry Sandusky, but his indifference to the situation made him just as complicit to these horrible crimes against humanity.

  • Paterno's son Jay, makes no mention of the fact that the 2001 incident was at least the second time the issue had come up -- in 1998, Sandusky was accused in a case that went before District Attorney, Ray Gricar who reviewed then decided to drop it. Joe Paterno knew about this incident, and that makes his failure to look toward the welfare of a child, the second time around even more grievous. Fool me once... shame on Sandusky, fool me twice... well, you know.

  • Oh Jay, I know that this is a nightmare. Young children raped, bullied and tossed away, and your father being part of the cover-up. The sins of the Father weigh so heavily on their children. Jay, accept the weight, and do better. If you continue to deny your father's part in this nightmare you will never be able to do better. Good luck!


rocktivity

Freedomofspeech

(4,221 posts)
72. Thank you...
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:10 PM
Jul 2012

Thank you for your courage to share this. Living in SW PA, I see everyday how crazy these PSU fans are. Most of them have no regard for the victims, only for JoePa...what a disgrace. Such cult worship of him is a disgusting. Happy Valley is a white, right-wing culture and JoePa was their god.

RVN VET

(492 posts)
73. Great post. Thanks
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:14 PM
Jul 2012

I don't doubt that Penn St is going to pay dearly for the unbelievably callous and calculating misfeasance of its top officers -- and the erstwhile sainted "Joe Pa."

There are enough victims coming forward, that the settlements that will have to made from myriad lawsuits will undo the creepy place financially. I feel a little sorry for the alumni whose bubble has been violently burst by the sordid revelations of serial child rape and its subsequent cover up by the university. It may be that PSU will have to shrink its offerings back to academics and athletics (with a small "a&quot -- or maybe it will be allowed to die as an institution.

Child rape is a heinous crime. Walking away from it, knowing it has happened and will doubtless continue to happen, shit, abetting it, is a worse crime.

If Sandusky does multiple life sentences -- as he should -- the rest of the craven, heartless, calculating crew that allowed him to continue his activities; that worried about the "image" of the school and, worse yet, about Sandusky's feelings in the matter, should at least do life.

(Of course they won't. They will do time, hard time I hope. But they'll be out in a few years (maybe a few months) and get busy writing their memoirs of the affair. And those memoirs, sadly, will be bought up by thousands of PSU alumni who think that the school's inaction was -- god, it's hard even to think it -- understandable and proper.)) No, I don't mean that ALL PSU alumni are sympathetic to the bastards. Not even a majority, I'm sure, feel in the least supportive. But there are enough of them -- the real hard core -- who will support Joe Pa's record and think of him and the other degenerates who covered up for Sandusky nothing but find thoughts and gratitude.

sad sally

(2,627 posts)
75. Said it before and will say it again and again...
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:15 PM
Jul 2012

All the bastards - no matter how "important" they are to Penn State and football - who knew about
this evil man raping little boys and did nothing to stop it should stand before all these victims and explain why their power and wealth was more important than stopping this pedophile - the President of Penn State knew. The athletic director knew. Assistant coaches knew. The head of police knew. May the rest of the days of their lives be filled with shame, may their finances be reduced to zero, including the Paterno family who must have known something about the coverup.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
76. I am so sorry. Parents today are more alert to the problems of
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:40 PM
Jul 2012

sexual child abuse. It is a very serious matter.

All child abuse is horrible. We need even more parenting education so that parents will be aware of the signs in the behavior of adults as well of children when abuse, especially sexual abuse, occurs.

I have not expressed my opinion about the Penn State scandal very much because I don't follow sports at all. But it amazes me that the parents of the boys were not aware of the changes in behavior that they likely observed in their children.

A child or teenager's behavior gives tip-offs about child abuse as I understand it. The traits of an abused child need to be studied by parents so that they can recognize abuse when it occurs and not find out about it years later when their child suffers from the abuse.

Here are the symptoms according to one website:

The Child:

Shows sudden changes in behavior or school performance
Has not received help for physical or medical problems brought to the parents' attention
Has learning problems (or difficulty concentrating) that cannot be attributed to specific physical or psychological causes
Is always watchful, as though preparing for something bad to happen
Lacks adult supervision
Is overly compliant, passive, or withdrawn
Comes to school or other activities early, stays late, and does not want to go home

The Parent:

Shows little concern for the child
Denies the existence of—or blames the child for—the child's problems in school or at home
Asks teachers or other caregivers to use harsh physical discipline if the child misbehaves
Sees the child as entirely bad, worthless, or burdensome
Demands a level of physical or academic performance the child cannot achieve
Looks primarily to the child for care, attention, and satisfaction of emotional needs

The Parent and Child:

Rarely touch or look at each other
Consider their relationship entirely negative
State that they do not like each other

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/signs.cfm/

Child abuse should be reported -- to the police or to the government social workers in your area. Child abusers may face stiff penalties and the reason is that they inflict terrible harm on children.

For those who are interested, here is a small part of the California Code regarding child abuse.

(d) The child has been sexually abused, or there is a substantial
risk that the child will be sexually abused, as defined in Section
11165.1 of the Penal Code, by his or her parent or guardian or a
member of his or her household, or the parent or guardian has failed to adequately protect the child from sexual abuse when the parent or guardian knew or reasonably should have known that the child was in danger of sexual abuse.
(e) The child is under the age of five years and has suffered
severe physical abuse by a parent, or by any person known by the
parent, if the parent knew or reasonably should have known that the person was physically abusing the child. For the purposes of this subdivision, "severe physical abuse" means any of the following: any single act of abuse which causes physical trauma of sufficient severity that, if left untreated, would cause permanent physical disfigurement, permanent physical disability, or death; any single act of sexual abuse which causes significant bleeding, deep bruising, or significant external or internal swelling; or more than one act of physical abuse, each of which causes bleeding, deep bruising, significant external or internal swelling, bone fracture, or unconsciousness; or the willful, prolonged failure to provide adequate food. A child may not be removed from the physical custody of his or her parent or guardian on the basis of a finding of severe physical abuse unless the social worker has made an allegation of severe physical abuse pursuant to Section 332.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=37426113339+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

The code on this for your state is probably available on line. Read it and know what behavior does or does not qualify as child abuse in your state. Report child abuse if you see it or strongly suspect it is happening.

Better safe than sorry.

calimary

(81,110 posts)
77. Hey, grits - you don't have to explain or apologize about this to anyone.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:47 PM
Jul 2012

You have every right to be hard-ass about this. We all do, but you ESPECIALLY, considering what you endured.

I, for one, believe paterno should be dug up out of his grave and his carcass stood up in court and put on trial for this. He knew. And he kept silent for the greater good of money and football, and to hell with the young victims involved. Something else was far more important than the innocent, trusting youngsters under his and his staff's supervision. He KNEW, and he covered up. He's every bit as guilty as are all the administrators and athletics department people and other apologists at that damn school, AND the alumni with their hard-ons for football trophies. PLUS the civilians who turned a blind eye, like Pennsylvania's THEN-attorney general and now governor tom corbett.

http://www.alternet.org/news/156318/the_shocking_truth_about_joe_paterno,_penn_state_and_governor_tom_corbett?page=2

I wasn't abused. But I'm a Catholic and it disgusts me how my church has done the same thing to altar servers for YEARS and nothing's been done, everything's been covered up, and the vast majority of these fiends have gotten away with it - perpetrators, deniers, and excusors alike. And I strongly disapprove of football because I see it as organized brutality where bullies can go for cover and to get rich. Football to me is little more than a cathedral built for the worship of physical barbarism and ill-gotten gain (mainly because I think you shouldn't be able to get rich through a practice that chiefly involves physical violence and injury). I've never liked football because, to me, it glorifies all the wrong things. I'm glad my son was never interested in playing.

You have our total support and sympathy, grits. And you're completely correct about how you feel. They should all burn in Hell for this. Including paterno. STARTING with paterno.

rurallib

(62,379 posts)
80. I was a victim also, Grits
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 09:51 PM
Jul 2012

and you really hit the nail on the head.
Got so many things I want to say right now, but just can't.
I was one of those priest victims.
had all sorts of problems with any authority since then. Especially those that seem to have cult like followings.

Thanks for saying what you did. Wish I could express it so sanely, but mostly I get real mad.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
82. excellent post. it was a lesson for youngest son. he went thru all the rationalizations. and we
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:15 AM
Jul 2012

were able to address and speak out loud how a man, that can be considered great, hits bottom with one action. ignoring the suffering of these children. that one act was enough to take him down. no apologists. no excuses. because of the children.

it is very clear in this house.

and i think it is in many homes. lessons learned.

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