It's worth talking to people with whom we disagree.

[TomSlick]

I have been arguing for some time in replies to other posts that it is worthwhile to discuss issues with people with whom we disagree - to change the world one person at a time. Today, I had a small victory - very small - but a victory.

At Sunday lunch today, my mother-in-law started asking questions about the movement to remove confederate memorials in the south. She is a product of public education in Arkansas and was taught that the Civil War was the result of Yankee manufacturers riding rough-shod over southern farmers - with slavery as only a pretext.

Over the course of several conversations, she has come to accept that the south seceded because of slavery - that slavery was the cause of the Civil War. In today's conversation, she accepted that the confederate memorials (like the one on the local courthouse grounds) were erected during the height of Jim Crow for the purpose of making the local African-Americans know who was in charge.

Her basic good nature made her realize that the confederate memorials are a reminder to her African-American neighbors of all of this hateful history. At that point, the Golden Rule took over and she agreed the memorials must come down.

I appreciate that all of these conversations started from a good starting point. (She wouldn't have dreamed of voting for Trump.) She is also a soundly moral and intelligent person. Nevertheless, she has come a long way on her understanding of the Civil War and what society should do concerning the history of the south. I am confirmed in my opinion that those of us who can stand to do so, should continue to talk to our family and friends and bring them to the right side of history.

My Trumpster friends are next. I understand that not everyone can stand the conversations - but hell - I'm a lawyer. I live to argue.

[elleng]

1. NO DOUBT it is worth talking with people with whom we disagree.

Thanks for doing it.

[BigmanPigman]

2. This is what we are supposed to do as part of resisting...educate others

through conversation in our local communities. MoveOn had a nationwide call tonight about what we can do to resist the hate in the country right now. This is the most important thing we can all do...engage others. I do not know anyone who thinks in racist terms since I have chosen to avoid people like that throughout my life. If I come across someone new and find out this is how they think I may try to discuss it with them but it will be difficult for me to keep calm and cool since I am very impassioned in my beliefs.

[TomSlick]

5. You are correct.

The trick is to remain calm and logical. It can be difficult but worth the effort.

Then again, part of my legal training is to argue and remain calm.

[Solly Mack]

3. It can be, but not always.

K&R

I used to try with everyone but now only with very few, depending on how entrenched they've become.

Once certain beliefs are spouted and words are used, I have no desire to carry on a conversation of any nature.

[Warpy]

4. My own rule is "good people get to be wrong."

Sometimes, you can get through to good people. Sometimes you can't and then the best policy is to go Emily Post and refuse to discuss religion, sex or politics with them as needed. However, it's always beneficial to try to keep good people in your life even if they're wrong about many things.

[TomSlick]

6. Agreed

It's important to remain respectful and appeal to peoples' better angels. Very few people (Trump comes to mind) do not have a better angel in there somewhere. The trick is to find it and wake up the poor thing.

[Warpy]

8. Well, he triggers my First Rule

Never argue with a crazy person.

Trust me, this rule will make your life easier than any religious commandment or secular law.

[TomSlick]

12. Again, I'm a lawyer.

Arguing with crazy people is kinda my job.

[tavalon]

7. Sorry, I prefer to talk to people on or past the bell curve for intelligence

Too many of them are too stupid to understand basic human decency.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. It's also good to understand how people think -- and no snotty remarks like "Rs can't think". . nt

[elleng]

10. Yes indeed.

Too many don't consider such 'niceties,' and would rather curse them and their 'stupidity.' THAT is stupid.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. A lot tougher with those without basic good nature; I feel like crazies are trying to gaslight me

on another forum that is open to all viewpoints.

For pointing out Lee was a traitor to the USA, they started arguing whether I was pure emotion (and thus not to be listened to), or autistic for actually pointing out the definition of treason is in the US constitution, and leading an army against the USA plainly fits the bill. Then someone called me a Soviet commissar for saying that a good response to someone who celebrates fighting a war for slavery is "fuck you". I've been literally called worse than ISIS, because ISIS are really offended by buildings and statues they tear down, but because I said that a city has the right to decide to sell a statue, it's clear that I want to tear down all statues that true patriot Americans love, just to demoralise them, which is worse than ISIS. And this is all by British people.

I have seen the counterprotesters called "the real fascists"; I've seen Heather Heyer called a "commie" and a "terrorist". I've seen people say the murderer was harassed by the counterprotesters to the point of breaking, and we ought to feel sorry for him. I've seen people accuse the organiser of the Unite the Right march of being a leftist plant. I've seen the protest and counterprotest blamed on the Charlottesville mayor, because he's Jewish, and the vice mayor, because he's black. I've seen it blamed on white counterprotesters wanting to start a race war by stirring up bad feeling against Lee, who was apparently beloved by blacks until now. I've seen it blamed on the DNC. And the media. And George Soros (all by the same person, in the same post). All to get Bannon fired. Or to make Trump look bad.

I've seen a Brit, without irony, in the same post proudly invoke the time when Britain stood up to Nazis and fascists and also denounce the counterprotesters for hating Nazis and fascists (the same poster earlier accused rich people, like James Murdoch, who come out with a pro forma "hate is wrong" message of having been fooled by the insidious Jewish Cultural Marxism lie which is also somehow a plot by the Catholic church). I've seen the same person, in the same post, call the counterprotesters violent fascists for protesting, and 'pansies' for thinking there's something to protest about. I've seen BLM called the moral equivalent of the KKK. I've seen people saying that calling protesters with swastikas and pro-Hitler T shirts 'Nazis' is as bad as using the N word for black people.

All in all, the right wing has completely lost its shit, to defend a fascist who drove a car into a crowd, and Nazis who held a torch march chanting "Jews will not replace us". The one good thing has been that a coalition of liberals and genuine communists has formed on the forum to point and laugh at the spittle-flecked white supremacists. Rather like WW2 in a way.

[Blue_true]

13. Good job Barrister. nt