Was This Smackdown A Little Too Early?

[ChoppinBroccoli]

These past few days have been some of the most fun that I can remember in a presidential election year. I always knew that Rmoney never stood a chance, but little did I expect that he might not even make it to the convention.

My question is the timing of all of this. Was it too early? I mean, the election isn't for 4 months and the voting public has a painfully short memory. If this is the biggest bombshell we have against Rmoney, then it was a tactical mistake to bring it out in July. So I guess what I'm wondering is if his REALLY IS the biggest thing we have against him, and if so, why not sit on it for another few months? And if this thing is a threat to knock Rmoney out of the race entirely (probably not likely, but a possibility that has been discussed), wouldn't it have been smart to wait until after he was officially the nominee? The Republicans could still scramble together behind someone else at this point. And that someone else might be a stronger candidate than Rmoney (personally, I don't see anyone on the right even presenting a challenge to Obama, but you never know).

I have to think that the Obama campaign KNEW that McCain rejected Rmoney within nanoseconds of seeing his tax returns. I also have to think that they consider their strategies much more carefully than any of us could ever really know. And to borrow a chess term, I can't imagine they would "bring out their Queen" this early in the game. So my instinct is that the REAL dirt on Romney is still being preserved in a bunker somewhere in anticipation of October. But I'm also willing to consider the possibility that they were all caught off guard by just how stupid the Rmoney campaign has been.

So what do you guys think is really going on right now? A happy accident they couldn't believe they stumbled onto? A tactical error? Or is this really just the tip of the iceberg and will pale in comparison to the REAL bombshell we've got waiting for October?

[pnwmom]

1. He hasn't put forth the tax returns yet. They will be the gift that keeps on giving.

That's why he's so afraid to release them.

[rufus dog]

12. Even better

He was called out to release them and didn't.

Mitt, did you invest in a company that grinds up puppies and kittens to a powder that you and your Wall Street friends snort for amusement.

[pnwmom]

34. Not puppies and kittens.

Fetuses.

[meow2u3]

42. Fetal puppies and kittens

And fetal humans.

[movonne]

2. I'm pretty sure there will be lot more stuff on the way...

[Arctic Dave]

3. Simple define your opponent first electioneering.

MR is a weak candidate and why not crush from the start, don't give him anytime to gain traction on anything. This will free you up to play the game you want to play.

[mattclearing]

28. Bingo.

The real game being played here (if in fact Obama knows what he's doing) is to destroy Romney so thoroughly that congressional Dem candidates get major coattails and he can actually get things done in his second term.

[orwell]

4. Not too early...

...to define a plutocrat.

The swiftboaters did enormous damage in summer.

Perfect timing...

[nobodyspecial]

5. Nope, Obama's team has excellent timing

They know just when to peak. My guess is they got a bunch more crap. There is a reason he was passed over for Palin.

[coalition_unwilling]

6. Good questions and good OP. I have no answers, just that I hope they've got

more in store, because sociopaths like Romney and the Repigs speak and undestsand only the language of dominance and submission.

[klook]

7. The Boston Globe came out with it,

as has been pointed out in other threads on DU. Once the story is out there, there's no profit in ignoring it.

And, personally, I think the timing (accidental though it is) is excellent. The S.S. Romney is taking on water. Before long it will be listing and half sunk. The rats are already getting restless.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. If you think the Obama team didn't feed the BG the story

You need to catch up on how these things work.

[klook]

36. Thanks ever so for that constructive critcism....

Turns out I was wrong, though -- the Globe didn't get the scoop -- which has also been noted on DU. David Corn's July 2nd piece in Mother Jones beat the Globe by 10 days. And TPM covered this on July 10th as well.

Now, if you want to argue Obama campaign feed vs. investigative journalists researching public documents (the source, after all, is publicly available Securities and Exchange Commission filings -- here's one referenced in Corn's MJ piece, and TPM cited a couple, here and here), sure, it's possible that Corn and Josh Marshall (and Christopher Rowland and his colleagues at the BG) are not smart and diligent enough to dig up these public filings on their own -- that this whole thing started with a hot tip from the Obama campaign. Sure, that is possible. I am aware that political campaigns leak information to journalists -- it's been a few days since I fell off the turnip truck.

But the question this thread poses is this: Is this the right time for this information to come out? My contention, expressed in the post you responded to, is yes, it is an excellent time for this information to come out. And the Obama campaign is smart to hammer Romney on his Bain departure date because (and I'm not the first to come up with this analysis either ), not only is lying in filings to the SEC a crime, remaining at Bain past 1999 places him at the helm when the firm profited from the fetus-disposal company Stericycle, and may also reveal ethical and/or legal conflicts with his management of the Olympics.

[Gothmog]

37. The Globe Story moved the story into MSM

This story has been out there for a while. Many of the basic facts were known in 2002 and used in the MA Governors race. The Globe story helped moved this into the mainstream media and gave the story some credibility. I like Mother Jones but the Globe has more credibility with independent voters.

[klook]

47. Good point

and it's nice to see this story grow some legs.

[Gothmog]

55. I do not think that this story is going to go away

The whole retroactive retirement line is going to be discussed for some time.

[progressivebydesign]

8. sometimes you just run with what you got, when it comes...

I think it's a great time for it because it's chipping away at him. If he was already the official RNC Candidate, it would be worse. they would think that they were stuck with him. Now, they are holding out hope that he will be driven out somehow in a coup before the convention or during, so they are NOT unified.

had this happened after the convention, they'd all be holding hands and singing Kumbaya around him. No.. this is a good thing..

[oldhippydude]

9. yeah but Bain was Romney's queen

we are threatening his queen with a knight just opening the game..

my thinking of the real bombshell, is that i have noticed a lot of references lately to the old 06 us attorney scandal.. I'm thinking the big move later maybe on the voter suppression issue.. I'm still hoping for DOJ---> ALEC---> RICO.. in the meantime the narrative of the campaign is one of information, teaching rather than sound bites..

rest assured its no tactical error, Obama and company are beating Rove and their ilk at their own game.. if nobody's noticed slick willard got defined as a crook last week.. ask Kerry how hard it was to get rid of the swift boat stink..

I'm sure we haven't shot our silver bullet yet... theres plenty of ammo i'm sure..

[HooptieWagon]

10. No. Define him before he starts spending his mega dollars.

Weaken him before going into a contentious convention. Kick him while hes down. Keep him on the defensive, always trying to explain.
Bullies arent used to being punched back. Its bound to fluster him and cause a meltdown.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Romney is Dazed and Confused right now

Lets see if he can pull out of the current psychological trauma he has just experienced and get back on the campaign trail.

I am not so sure he can. I am not so sure anyone could recover from the beating he has been taking for the past two weeks. Been some pretty rough stuff.

I can just about bet he is going to be nervous about talking shit about the President in his stump speeches from now on. He now knows if he hits the President the President is going to hit him back twice as hard. Tough position to be in.

Lets see how Romney pulls out of this.

Don

[robinlynne]

21. thing is it is not Romney. It is Romny and Karl ROve and Bush Cheney and the koch borthers, etc.

[NNN0LHI]

39. What is not Romney?

Not sure what you are trying to say here?

Can you provide a little more detail?

Don

[robinlynne]

49. replying to the post just above mine, which says Romney is nervous, afraid, etc.

that he cant pull out of this. I'm saying I'm not worried about Romney specfically, I'm worried about the what the GOP masterminds will do, because they are not the giving up type.

[Scootaloo]

57. Yes, they are the quitting type, when it comes to individual campaigns

They abandoned McCain almost right out the gate.

The rats don't stay on sinking ships.

What the obama campaign is doing is driving the rats off Romney's boat. They will swim towards the legislature, instead. Guaranteed. And since the Romney Campaign will be floating dead in the water, the Democrats can take aim at the congressional seats in play, where the real fight matters.

[robinlynne]

58. point taken.

[Ruby the Liberal]

13. It depends.

1. On one hand, if OFA knew and pulled the trigger, they may have MUCH more in the wings, because this is very early with plenty of time for damage control.

2. If OFA knew but didn't pull the trigger, the machine knew what was coming and reacted to the MSM in lightening speed.

3. No way OFA didn't know (see 1 and 2 - preparation/execution was flawless and timely) so either they were on top of this timing, or eminently prepared for it.

4. Either way - you don't ask a question you don't know the answer to, and with Cutter dropping the "F-bomb" (felony) and Reid suggesting that Willard wouldn't pass confirmation for dog catcher due to taxes "not due" because of loopholes,

5. McCain's team of people reviewed 23 years of returns (at 200+ pages each). You can't keep that many people quiet. Especially not those who are looking to make a vetting career and don't care which side of the aisle it is on. How many people did it take to review JUST taxes while others focused on the other vet topics?

6. I trust that they have this one. And yeah - this has been a really great week.

Love to see the Dems on the offensive for a change, and Harry Reid? Your new spine looks mahvelous, dahling.

[Solomon]

14. No. The smackdown is right on time. There will never

be enough of it. Romney can not avoid it because what a lot of people are missing here, is that Romney's lifestyle and the justification of it during a time of misery for most, has been put on trial by Obama. Are we going to help the regular joe, or toady to the likes of Romney, and if so, why? Why should the richer keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer? There ought to be a damn good reason for that but Romney can't defend it. He's a leech on society. It's what this whole election is about.

Romney is gonna to be hammered day in and day out mercilessly on how he makes his money and what he does with it.

Most brilliant campaign I've ever witnessed.

[speedoo]

24. Agree, totally.

Plus, besides his career at Bain, what is Romney's experience? A few years running the Olympics? A mediocre job as. Governor (during which time he put into place ObamaCare in Mass)? Not enough, going up against a sitting President. With his Bain experience turned into a negative now, by virtue of the way they destroyed jobs, I don't see where Romney goes when he has to sell himself to the American people.

[Drunken Irishman]

15. No. Romney is still an unknown. The summer months go along way toward defining the challenger...

If you wait until October, you run the risk of Romney defining himself and getting out in front of a story that breaks and has little impact because Americans have already made up their opinions about him. It's why, in '00, the Bush DUI story didn't do that much damage. It broke RIGHT before the election, but by that point, Americans had already decided if they liked him or not - they knew he made mistakes and those who were willing to forgive him weren't going to change on that DUI story and those who were already against him just had their views reinforced.

You spend the summer months defining your challenger so that when October rolls around, he can't get away from the image you've created.

In '04, the Bush campaign spent the entire summer tearing down Kerry's service and presenting him as a flip-flopper. By the time fall rolled around, that image had cemented.

In '96, the Clinton campaign spent the entire summer defining Dole as an out-of-touch insider whose ideas were just too old for the presidency. By the time October rolled around, Dole's age, and his ties to Gingrich, were what he was most known for - not his record as senator.

In '88, the Bush campaign spent the entire summer throwing Willie Horton around and by October, Dukakis was seen as a typical soft on crime liberal.

Don't give your challenger time to shape his own image. If he does that, then your attacks later in the game won't mean a lick. Romney started this race with his business record being an asset. Spend these next couple months making it a liability. In October, after months of hearing Bain stories and tax return stories, he will be known as a corporate raider who outsourced jobs and ruined towns.

But that won't happen if you hold off until October.

[nc4bo]

19. +1.

I think this is a really good explanation.

[Zalatix]

35. But then there's the risk that people will say, "Okay, he's a douche, but I'll vote for him anyway."

I'm not sure if independents will support him after this, but Republicans will probably get de-sensitized.

Remember, he's running against a "black man".

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Let's Come Up With Some Reason to Beat Up On Obama!

Jesus, don't you ever stop?

[Amonester]

17. One thing for sure is, he will be asked to release his tax returns at least once a week

every week, and from both sides, until he does (and we suspect he will not release them).

So every time he will 'change subject' it's going to show right there to everyone watching.

His numbers need to sink to the point they won't even try to steal it for him because it will be too apparent.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. No. First off, the Obama camp needs to define Romney in their terms

Second, they know that Romney won't release all of his info, so they can keep this going for months.

Third, they have a lot more stuff to dribble out that's even worse.

[DrewFlorida]

22. This kind of story tends to snowball and gather momentum as it goes!

No I don't think it's too early, this story is going to snowball and grow as time goes on.
If Mitt doesn't release his tax documents there will be ever growing public outcry for them, if he does release his tax documents he will be exposed and run out of the race for his hypocrisy. Either way there is ample time for this story to grow and evolve.

I think it's a benefit that the story came out now rather than September.

[bpj62]

23. Stand on his neck.

The republicans are tne "walking dead" you have to kill the brain in order to stop them and this is just the first step. Obama and his staff have played rope a dope for 4 years and now they ate counter punching. I dont think Romney has a answer and I think the debates will expose him. Obama plays chess the telpublicans play checkers.

[NYC Liberal]

25. No. First, I believe this is only the start and this will be slowly dripping out.

And second, it's about defining Romney and that has to happen early.

Also, there is obviously something in those tax returns or he wouldn't be so adamant about not releasing them. And add the fact that the McCain camp looked at them and then chose Palin over him.

[MADem]

26. This is just the opening gambit. There's MORE.

Hell, much of this was already known to Massachusetts voters--RMoney thought that since no one brought it up in the primary (and they didn't because some of them were bucking for VP or a cabinet post) that he'd gotten away with it.

[Orangepeel]

27. No. If it were 12 years ago it would have been too early

With 24 hour media and infinite money, waiting is a bad idea. Just ask John Kerry. Build the narrative early and pound it relentlessly until election day.

Personally, I don't think there is a bombshell in the tax returns -- just the standard rich-guy loopholes and shell games. But they will reinforce that narrative, which is a good thing for the Obama campaign.

[CTyankee]

50. I'm not so sure. Why is he resisting this for so long? His campaign must know that the steady

drumbeat is a bad thing. Better to get the tax returns out there and have the cover story all ready so it can be "old news" by October. Unless there is another reason for him to keep on withholding them and I'm not sure I know why except that he can only spend the SuperPac money in the campaign right now and he's not yet the official candidate...then that could be a good reason. I have heard that the Obama campaign is worried about the load of ads that Romney will drop after the REpub. convention...

[Schema Thing]

29. I'm not sure the good polling data in swing states didn't predicate these punches

from team Obama.


Perhaps the good data in swing states meant it was time to consolidate the public attitude against Mitt in the areas (swing states) where it really matters.

[Kahuna]

41. Good points. nt

[Tx4obama]

30. The Republican Convention is coming up soon and ...

I think it's going to be hard for Mitt to be bragging at the convention that he was a great business man.

In 1999, 2000, 2001 he was the CEO and sole owner/stockholder of Bain. And for those three years he has said publicly that he made NO decisions. Doesn't sound like a good businessman to me


And if he can't brag about his business record... then there's nothing else left for him to brag about.

[wolfsister77]

31. I don't think it was too early

Because...........the sooner they define him, the better.

He is not well known with most Americans so if this stuff comes out now, they can see him for who he really is.

Besides, I'm willing to bet they have more dirt on him.

He is scared to death to release his tax returns.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

32. Welcome to DU, wolfsister77!

It's great to have you aboard!

[wolfsister77]

61. Hi

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Thanks for the welcome!!

[Skittles]

33. NO

it is NEVER to early to smack down repuke bastards and smack them HARD

[msanthrope]

38. It bolsters the Tea Party rebellion at the convention. nt

[tallahasseedem]

40. It's just the beginning...

read McCain's 200 page oppo report, etc. Chicago's got this!

[zonkers]

43. Awesome points in this thread. Let me add the notion that quality VP candidates might think

twice about joining Mitt and risking their political future now that Mitt has been so effectively exposed as "damaged goods". Bravo.

[DCBob]

44. Never too early to do a smackdown..

as long as they have more ammunition down the road.. and I suspect they do.

[hatrack]

45. No, provided that it continues through election day

nt

[morningfog]

46. Romney had somewhat closed the gap in polling.

This knocked him down and created a frame based on what he was touting as his great strength. Romney can't undo this. It is devastating to his image and campaign. No doubt there will be much more to come. Mitt is reeling and is a gaff machine.

[arthritisR_US]

48. I applaud the timing of these things because

human nature being what it is, first impressions are more often than not, lasting impressions. He has been now defined by the narrative, in the same way John Kerry was, the difference being that they did it with lies and we are doing so with the truth, IMHO.

[orpupilofnature57]

51. Kkkarl ,MSM , our diametrically opposed brains

stay aware.

[Enrique]

52. it isn't a bombshell

there's no smoking gun. Romney didn't do anything wrong, except be the person he is, whom a lot of people won't like when they know him, and whom he is denying he is. How is Mitt going to get people to un-know him? Sing "God Bless America" a few more times?

[aaaaaa5a]

53. For some reason, I think the Obama campaign has a lot more.

Lets not forget, if Romney was at Bain after 1999, he profited from dead fetuses. What kind of commercial do you think that would make?

And for the first time in my lifetime, we have a Democratic President who might be able to actually throw a punch for a change.

[FarLeftFist]

54. Early?! There's only 3 months left. Keep them on defense.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

56. Oh, this is just the tip of the iceberg!

[Motown_Johnny]

59. Not at all. Rmoney is being defined to the low attention voters.

If you wait to long you miss out on the chance to define your opponent.

12 days until the Olympics and then that rules the news cycles for two weeks. We can ride this for a month and keep him off his message completely.


I don't think they have brought out their queen yet. This feels more like two rooks. One being that he may have filed false statements to the SEC and the other that he may have perjured himself in 2002 when challenged on his eligibility to become MA Governor.

[MineralMan]

60. Only if you assume that this is all the Obama campaign has.

I think not. There will be more to come, if Romney doesn't withdraw. Much more.