"This site only welcomes people who voted for HRC in the GE." (EDIT: Skinner clarifies his comments)

[NurseJackie]

Last edited Fri Aug 25, 2017, 10:11 AM - Edit history (2)

That's a direct quote and it makes me very happy! Thank you, Skinner!



https://www.democraticunderground.com/125912898#post1

Star Member Skinner (63,187 posts)
1. This site only welcomes people who voted for HRC in the GE.

Trump-enabling morons can find some other website.

EDIT: Skinner has now clarified his original comments.

Star Member Skinner (63,220 posts)
3. There was nothing obtuse about my response. I was absolutely clear:

"This site only welcomes people who voted for HRC in the GE."

[get the red out]

1. I am happy to say that I qualify!

Voted for Hillary.

[Alice11111]

60. There are 2 threads on this same subject

[NurseJackie]

143. GMTA

[lapucelle]

264. ...

[Hortensis]

373. Thanks for a second thread, then, NurseJackie. And THANK YOU, Admin!

[ProudLib72]

2. Moi aussi!

Should have been obvious to everyone with half a brain that they needed to vote for Hillary.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

261. Yes, while I was a strong Bernie supporter in the primary, voting for Hillary was a no-brainer...

Wouldn't want being responsible for putting the Fuhrer-in-Chief in office on my conscience.

[onit2day]

358. We also welcome those who wished they had voted for Hillary

even if they didn't vote for Trump

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

363. That would be wise, but that's not the feeling I get from reading the comments of some here...

heck, just read the OP.

[Hortensis]

374. It's the way I feel and the way of the Democratic Party.

After all, we are the party of America. But DU also needs to live up to its name and purpose.

[Demsrule86]

381. That is not what Skinner said...someone posted it yesterday and Nurse did above.

[Maven]

3. K/R!

[HenryWallace]

4. Well....

I voted for HRC, but

I am certainly not comfortable with your statement.

Goodbye

[NurseJackie]

5. Well, then... okay. Goodbye!

[DownriverDem]

43. Were you fooled?

Any one who wasn't politically naïve knew that Hillary was our way forward. Many of Bernie's ideas were in the Dem Platform We warned them and now look at the mess we are suffering through. I hope you have learned a very important lesson. We have a 2 party system. Not understanding is why we have trump.

[NurseJackie]

52. Well... seeing that I started this thread, it's a safe bet that I wasn't fooled. :-D

(I was just saying goodbye to the previous poster, who seemed to be unhappy about something.)

[zipplewrath]

30. Guess we do like litmus tests

For all the complaints about "purity" and "litmus tests" around here, apparently we have one of our own. The unpure are not welcome.

[murielm99]

44. This is a website for Democrats.

What is so fucking hard about that?

[zipplewrath]

46. Nothing

Apparently only certain democrats.

[ExciteBike66]

49. Well, there was only one Democrat running in the GE in 2016... nt

[zipplewrath]

67. Actually there were hundreds

All up and down the ticket. But apparently the purity test is around HRC.

[ehrnst]

85. You mean voting for the Democratic presidential candidate?

Yeah, that's sort of the point.

[zipplewrath]

113. I get it

It's just kinda funny after all the complaints about purity tests. You can be prolife and still be a democrat, but one vote, for one candidate, in one election, THAT'S a bridge too far.

[ismnotwasm]

132. I think the fact that Trump is the president is the point

You know It's ok not to be a Democrat. It's just not ok here. I have a couple of friends who not only didn't vote for Hillary, they left the Democratic party. They are trying something new. They consider themselves pure, but I no longer talk politics with them. I don't want to discuss Hillary with them. Or Jill Stein or even Bernie. They didn't vote for the Democratic candidate when it counted. They are culpable in this situation--it doesn't matter how blue our state is, or what their opinion on Trump is. They are part of what allowed him to be.

[zipplewrath]

299. Not sure it is

I think the point is that it is time for everyone to "get over" the last election. If someone is willing to support democratic candidates, going forward, it would seem that is the litmus test. New elections are happening all the time and we need to win alot of races, not just the presidential ones. The party is in the worst shape it's been since reconstruction and it doesn't seem that this is a great time for such stringent, and useless, purity tests.

[Control-Z]

349. The thing is, if you are supporting Democratic candidates

little of this conversation applies. It is only the people who stomp their feet and insist that people outside the party should get to dictate to the party - and people who keep defending their very wrong vote in 2016.

Stop it and you'll be fine. Who would know how you voted otherwise?

[ehrnst]

221. The "purity tests" that refer to Democratic candidates sticking with the Democratic Platform?

You think that's funny.

I think what you don't "get" is that that "purity tests" are for Democratic candidates. I don't think that what people who vote Democrat believe was ever an issue - let alone a test.

But I sorta think that it's not a stretch to expect our reps to vote with the platform, let alone a "purity test."

And if you don't support the presidential candidate that is running on the Democratic platform, I'm not getting how that makes them a supporter of the Democratic party, and therefore sorta might maybe not really belong on an entire board named for the Party.

Ya think?

[Weekend Warrior]

273. Purity would be not willing to vote for the Democrat in the GE.

I had some issues with Clinton but they were nothing compared to others. I happily voted for Clinton. Nothing pure about it. Not voting for her out of some form of misguided principle is purity.

[mcar]

298. Exactly!

Democrats vote for the Democratic nominee. It's really that simple.

[Hortensis]

451. Personally, I question that principle entered into it at all for most.

What KIND of people chose to claim our platform was conservative and to believe those ridiculous, viciously malicious lies about our party and our candidates? Principal had absolutely nothing to do with any of that.

[MineralMan]

58. I'm pretty sure that anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is not

a Democrat, really. That's pretty simple. We had just one job to do last November. Everyone I know did that job. Anyone who didn't is not much of a Democrat, as far as I'm concerned, and will never regain my trust.

[zipplewrath]

66. I actually know

I know folks that voted straight democratic except HRC. But here that means they're not democrats.

That is a purity test if there ever was one.

[MineralMan]

71. Then you know some very foolish people.

In the General Election, Democrats vote for a Democrat for President. If they don't vote for the Democrat, then they are not Democrats. It's pretty freaking simple. We nominated a candidate for President. That candidate would either win or lose. The victor would be either the Democrat or the Republican.

It is a binary choice. No third party candidate has ever even come close to winning the presidency.

Any Democrat who voted for anyone other than Hillary Clinton last November is no Democrat at all. Good riddance to the lot of them.

[zipplewrath]

76. And we have our purity test

I guess they're all the rage now.

[MineralMan]

86. OK. I have no problem with that, frankly.

I'm here to help get Democrats elected to office. That's why I'm on DU. I fool around with some other things, as well, but my primary focus here is on GOTV, voter registration and the like. That's what the site is all about - electing Democrats.

So, it seems to me that anyone who doesn't vote for a Democrat for President in the general election isn't really here for any good purpose. I don't mind if such people go somewhere else. They get in the way of what this site is all about.

Following the election, we're not seeing some names who used to post here quite a bit. They told us that they didn't vote for Hillary. They worked against Hillary's election on a daily basis. Now, they're not here any longer. Good riddance, I say.

I don't ask people whether they voted for HRC in November. However, if someone tells me they didn't and voted for some third party or wrote someone in, then I'm done with that person. Period.

If they're not here in the future, I won't even notice, really. Some of the prolific posters who opposed the Democratic nominee, I do know of, and they're no longer here. There are, no doubt, some still here who did the same. I'd advise them not to mention that if they want to continue participating, now that Skinner has made it clear they are not wanted.

But I'm not going to ask anyone. None of my business, really. We have a secret ballot. I voted for Hillary Rodham Clinton in November. I don't mind one bit saying so.

[Mountain Mule]

107. I'm with you!

I voted for Bernie in the primaries and you can bet I voted for Hillary last November. Especially with such a horrible alternative (we all know that a third party candidate or just sitting it out won't cut it). Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is not exactly unwelcomed by me - maybe they're folks who came to their senses at last. But I'm tired of all the divisive attacks from all sides. We need to pull together and get some big wins in the upcoming mid-terms! Are you with me on this one, guys?

[Red Oak]

153. GOTV vote - really?

So in the upcoming elections are you planning on leading with "did you vote for HRC in the last election?" and, if they say "no", then you tell them to go to hell and have a nice day?

Is an HRC vote, or not, something to be damned forever? No redemption?

Sounds like an odd position to me. Writes off way too may people that I would like to get vote Democratic again.

[MineralMan]

170. I'm not really concerned with non-Democrats. I get out the vote of Democrats who

need some encouragement to get to the polling place. I never ask who they voted for in the past. I help them understand why voting for Democrats in the upcoming election is important. Hillary Clinton got over 60% of the vote in my precinct and surrounding district. How did it go where you live?

The choice in 2016 could not have been clearer. Either Hillary or Trump was going to the White House. Anyone who couldn't see the need to vote for Clinton is someone I can't convince of anything at all. As it turned out, not enough people voted for Clinton in three crucial states and now we have Donald Trump to deal with. How does that seem to be working out?

I've been doing GOTV work since 1960. I will continue to do it, as long as I am able. How about you?

[sprinkleeninow]

370. GOTV since 1960? Ya caint be THAT chronological! 😉

[MineralMan]

405. I can. In 1960, I was a sophomore in high school.

JFK was running. I contacted the local Democratic Party organization and asked what I could do. I ended up walking a couple of precincts in my home town, handing out literature and encouraging people to vote for JFK.

I've been doing GOTV ever since. I'm 72 years old now.

[sprinkleeninow]

450. Was being complimentary. 🤗 Praise on being committed to our cause. 👍

We went to different schools together. 😄
I gradiated from h.s. edumacation in 1965!

JFK. My mom and I mourned in front of our television several days. In 1960, my dad dropped/reposed in front of us, aneurysm, 45 yrs. old. JFK opened up wounds that were attempting to heal.

💗?🗽

[Red Oak]

404. If you are not really concerned about non-Democrats...

and Democrats are losing ground all over the country and have been for decades, then maybe you should re-think your ideas and include a "big tent".

I thought the responsibility of a political party was to grow it in size so as to enact legislation, not just make it more pure and make sure to give the pure a ride to the polls on election day and then lose the election in the process.

P.S. what does the relative win of HRC in the election in our two districts have to do with this discussion? Are you suggesting that my district, if HRC didn't win by as much, is in some form lesser than yours? Less pure?

[CTyankee]

218. We're in a solidly blue state and we have a dear friend who simply did not vote in

the election. Since it didn't really matter, Hillary was gonna take CT, I forgave him for not voting. He was depressed at the time and having lots of issues with his life. I gave him a break but it was really none of my business why he didn't vote.

[Hortensis]

389. Poor guy. That's not what the statement meant of course.

Last edited Fri Aug 25, 2017, 09:33 AM - Edit history (1)

This is after all a political forum, and people who come here are politically involved.

Hugely on point, it's not just Hillary's election that was subverted.

People may not have noticed, but issues discussion here has devolved into petty intra-party brangling about how much healthcare reform we should have right now.

What happened to the giant issue of economic equality -- the huge issue that threatened to unite left and right against those wannabe kleptocrats? We all agree 100% on the need to fix this existential threat to democracy and our own well-being. But we didn't decide to abandon this issue, the national conversation, and DU's, were subverted. And we were carefully and deliberately turned on ourselves, some requiring almost no effort at all.

[LakeArenal]

446. Exactly.

DU is a forum.. If you didn't vote for Hillary it's a huge problem. But we aren't against you wanting to voting Democratic. We don't mind you joining the Huffington Post. Have at it. More power too you. Personally, I am not that interested in your regrets, conversion, your future.

Join DU when you can say, I voted for the Democratic Presidential Candidate.

We need to focus on midterms. I think our motto should be " Make Issues Great Again"..

[Hortensis]

382. +1000. Plus, people NEED a site that is free of malicious disinformation,

the kind that blanketed the nation about Hillary. Anti-Democratic lies are being brought and argued here not only by professional agents, but cluelessly by people who choose to believe them -- people who don't understand and don't appreciate what is right about what is still the party of Jefferson and Madison.

Today the Democratic Party is under continual attack by giant forces that intend to destroy us. We need to deal with that threat by not allowing those pulling from their end of the rope to do so from inside DU.

[emulatorloo]

99. Rather disingenuous framing. Democrats vote for Democrats. You act as if this is some foreign

concept.

Additionally DU is a site for Dems, Allied Independents, Green Party members, Socialists etc who vote Democratic in order to advance the progressives goals we share.

You knew this when you signed up here.

[zipplewrath]

108. The very definition of purity

The point is that you have people with years of democratic voting, and nearly straight tickets. But we are going to measure them by one vote in one election. That's the very definition of purity.

[emulatorloo]

114. No that's your dishonest framing.

I added more to my post about our allies in reaching progressive goals but I'm sure you will twist that as well.

[zipplewrath]

118. My reply was prior to your updates

And there is nothing twisted here. There is really no other way to describe this metric other than purity. All of the democratic voting people do or don't do is meaningless EXCEPT for one race in one election. We're all supposed to be "coming together" and "not fighting the last primary". But we WILL continue to fight the last election apparently.

[emulatorloo]

137. The 2016 election will never die. Nonetheless pretending that criticism of the minority of Sanders

primary voters who did not vote for Dem nominee in the general is criticizing Sanders voters is incorrect.

DU Sanders supporters are with the majority of Sanders supporters who voted for the Democratic nominee.

Elliding the differences between the minority and the vast MAJORITY of Sanders supporters is incorrect.

Framing this as some sort of horrible "purity test" is cute. That's the best I can say about it

[Squinch]

146. One vote in one election in which their vote gave us Trump(R). I have NO problem with

excluding those imbeciles from a Democratic site.

Call it a purity test, call it whatever you like. White supremacists enabled Trump(R) just like your very nice friends. I don't want to talk to them either.

[brush]

165. If you want to call it purity to be expected to vote Dem WHEN IT FU_KING COUNTED...

for the Democratic Party candidate for the 2016 election to keep trump out, yeah, purity it is then.

After that hard-fought, tough campaign and knowing what a homophobic, anti-woman, anti-Mexican American, anti-black, anti-Muslim, anti-handicapped disaster trump was, how stupid can anyone be to vote Democratic all up and down the ballot except at the top for our presidential candidate.

Pure, stubborn, selfish, egotistical stupidity.

[FakeNoose]

211. +1000

I totally support that statement.

Any Dems who didn't vote for Hillary in November - do not belong here. That's when it counted!

Any independents who didn't vote for Hillary in November, GTFO because we don't want to hear about it.

I can be friends with Bernie supporters who voted for Hills. In 2008 I was all for Hillary in the primary, but I went for Obama in the general election. I never regretted that decision either, but I was sorry that Hillary didn't win the nomination.

It's all water under the bridge now.

[Raine1967]

227. Thank you.

I cannot believe that any member of DU would argue against the statement made.

It's not a purity test at all.

It was our candidate against 'a homophobic, anti-woman, anti-Mexican American, anti-black, anti-Muslim, anti-handicapped disaster'

That not purity, that is f*cking common sense,

[brush]

155. Stop with the purity test crap. If they didn't have enough sense to vote for Hillary...

in the GE when being a Democrat counted to keep trump out, they are idiots — pure and simple. There's your purity for you.

And I'm betting after the 7-month debacle that is the trump administration they are feeling pretty idiotic themselves by now.

Why not ask them how they feel about not voting for the Dem presidential candidate in the GE now that orange bozo is fucking everything up.

[Eliot Rosewater]

229. Even after watching first hand what happened by not voting for HRC, you sit here

and make these arguments.

Amazing.

[PoliticAverse]

84. Did those people vote for Trump, Jill Stein or skip the President selection? n/t

[zipplewrath]

103. Don't know any Trump votin' dems

I know a couple of Stein voters who otherwise voted a straight democratic ticket.
I know alot of GOPers who voted for HRC.

[NastyRiffraff]

308. You know what? Nobody is interested

in who you know/don't know and who they did/didn't vote for. Anecdotal examples are useless and meaningless. Here on DU, you can support anyone you want (except a Republican) in the primary. But come the GE, you support and vote for the Democratic nominee, period. If you stomp your tiny feet and declare that you'll do a protest vote or some other idiotic thing, you don't belong here.

Yes, we're talking about the presidential election here, which you seem to have some kind of weird issue with. That's what the OP said.

[chwaliszewski]

364. I'm interested.

I'm not being dismissive of zipplewrath's points as it is always helpful to listen to other opinions, whether you agree with them or not. In '08, people voted Hillary in the primary, then Obama in the GE which makes complete sense. Unless you're trying to sabotage the Dem nom process, why vote for the Dem candidate if you're not going to vote for the Dem nom in the GE? The same applies here. Why vote for Bernie or anybody else for that matter in the '16 Dem primary if you're not going to vote for the Dem nom in the GE? Spitefulness? Boo-hoo.

I voted Bernie and then Hillary because if I cared enough about the country as an Independent voter (sorry, I've voted Dem every election since 1990 but I'm not a registered Democrat) to determine which party I wanted to influence so their potential candidate would win the GE, then it would be stupid of me to not finish what I set out to do and that is, see to it that the party I chose to back would have their candidate win the GE.

I tend to not be too harsh on anyone who voted Bernie or other non-Hillary candidate in the primary but did not vote in the GE at all or just didn't vote for the presidency, if that ever happens. I don't agree that if you didn't vote for Hillary then you voted for Trump. That's BS. A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump just as a vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary. Both sides could make the same exact argument; if someone didn't vote at all then essentially they voted for both candidates, hmm?

If I could play devil's advocate for just a second...

What is your opinion of anyone who voted in the Dem primary for someone other than Hillary that then voted for Trump in the GE? Is your opinion equally harsh to all guilty of this atrocity? Or is it not as bad for someone who did this in a state that she won? Just something to think about. I'm beyond pissed that we have the moronic baby-man as POTUS but I find myself more angry with the turncoats in the battleground states that Dorito Mussolini won than with the turncoats in the states that she won or had no chance in hell of winning for some reason. Your thoughts?

[Demsrule86]

385. Anyone who voted for Trump is a POS...but they would not want to come here anyway except to disrupt.

Those who voted for Trump, Stein, Sanders (write in for general not primary voters) or stayed home really should go elsewhere.

[NastyRiffraff]

429. It's not "other opinions" I have an issue with

Last edited Fri Aug 25, 2017, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

It's inane anecdotal examples like "I know people who..." etc etc used as prima facie evidence that whatever the poster is saying is revealed truth.

Again, a vote for anyone other than Hillary Clinton in the general presidential election is absolutely inexcusable, as is the sniveling, cowardly option of not voting at all. Because of these idiots we now have President Trump, a phrase I have trouble even typing.

[chwaliszewski]

447. I get your point about

"I know people who...". It's no different than "Some people say that..." and to me it's the same as someone creating imaginary friends to make it sound like they are right about whatever they're talking about.

Again, if someone chooses not to vote, that is their prerogative but they have no room to complain. Trump voters, though.....morons.

[ehrnst]

87. Voting Democrat is sort of the defintion of Democrat. Especially for President.

Is that something distasteful to you?

[brush]

181. Good question. Voting for the Dem presidential candidate is the no-brainer of no-brainers.

I mean it's nice to vote for Dem city councilmen, state assembly people, Reps, county commissioners and all, but to skip the presidential candidate and chance that a disaster like trump would get in because of some selfish, stubborn, ego-driven foolishness is about the stupidest thing ever.

[moonscape]

184. Those are the people I am most angry at, actually. They

allowed this cluster to happen. How could any Democrat think it was better to have this 45 than her? I don't get it. This isn't a purity test on policy, it's a purity test on rational vs bat crazy destructive.

[Chemisse]

196. They helped put Trump in office.

So no, they should not be welcome here. I'm sure there are forums just right for them elsewhere.

[RhodeIslandOne]

281. How are they enjoying Donald Trump?

Did they make a lot of justifications about how "He won't be that bad" and he's a "New York Republican, not a hard line Republican"?

Do they feel good about how they essentially laid down for a complete incompetent?

Do they understand now?

[zipplewrath]

284. A river in Eygpt

Denial is a powerful thing.

Two best I've heard are, "She didn't earn our vote" and "it wouldn't have made a difference".

Not sure they've noticed that they've gotten fewer invitations lately.

[D23MIURG23]

285. Putting aside whether the folks you know should be allowed here, I can't understand that decision.

They went to all the trouble to go to the polling place and vote for other Democrats, but not Hillary Clinton? Why?

I know there were and are things to dislike about Hillary Clinton, but IMO that's just Hillary derangement syndrome. She was by far the best choice if you have values that are in line with other Democratic candidates. Even if you imagine Jill Stein could have been elected she was inexperienced and had plenty of baggage of her own.

[zipplewrath]

292. Understanding comes from communication

I will say, and not just during this election, there is a belief out there that being president is something that any reasonable person can do. I've never believed that and I wish experience was valued more in our primaries and such.

[sprinkleeninow]

369. That can't be. What-uh? 😯 n/t

[Demsrule86]

384. If you didn't vote for the Democratic candidate for president...you are not a Democrat.

Also, a person who did that literally has blood on their hands.

[zipplewrath]

459. So, say, in the past, you voted for Goldwater?

How long are we going to hang on to this purity test?

[betsuni]

461. Hillary Clinton didn't vote for Goldwater.

She was a teenager then. But of course you know that.

[Demsrule86]

463. 16 was a different sort of year...and I have not seen any of the so called progressive (Greens)

feel guilt or sorrow...in fact they threaten us here daily that if the 'Democratic party' doesn't do XYZ well...you won't get 'the' voters back (really them) They take every opportunity to bash Democratic elected and it is quite easy to tell who they are. And then there are their
old posts here and elsewhere raving that they will vote for anyone but the Democratic nominee in 16.

[Mr.Bill]

342. If Donald Trump had been the Democratic candidate

(he was a Democrat at one time) would you have voted for him?

I certainly wouldn't have. Since I first became aware of him in the early 70s, I have thought he was a despicable excuse for a human being.

[Control-Z]

352. Democrats would have never voted him in

to be our nominee. Period.

[Mr.Bill]

355. Yeah, but these are strange times

and nobody thought the republicans would either.

[Control-Z]

371. You are reaching a bit too far.

I can't help but wonder why.

[Hortensis]

410. Very far.

[MineralMan]

406. If? He wasn't, was he?

The Democratic party would never have made Donald Trump its nominee. Not a chance. Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee in 2016. This thread is about people voting for that nominee.

Playing hypothetical questions isn't going to cut it in this thread.

[Phentex]

413. Do you think Skinner is a fool?

There are reasons why Donald Trump WAS NEVER the Democratic nominee. Your question is ridiculous.

If Bernie Sanders had been the nominee, this site would have been supportive.

If David Duke had been the nominee, this site would not have been.

[Mr.Bill]

460. Did I say Skinner is a fool?

Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I didn't even mention Skinner.

And so far no one will answer my question. Interesting.

[Hekate]

379. I know 2 people who did that, and we don't really speak any more. One's always been an arrogant pill

...so no great loss there. The other, however, is a woman I've known for a couple of decades through our mutual work in Affirmative Action and anti-Bush anti-war efforts. I do feel a sense of loss for that friendship.

"Purity" my foot. Look at Trump. Look at the GOP. How deluded to you have to be to call yourself a Democrat (or any version of left) and let that happen?

Do I want to waste time debating any of that ilk about whether the Dem Party/Platform/GE POTUS candidate is or is not worthy of our attention? Life is too short. I'm at DU because we agree on certain ground rules. There are plenty of other sites for those who do not agree with those ground rules.

[Hortensis]

411. Spot-on. Very well said.

[Demsrule86]

263. Those who did not vote for the Democratic candidate in the general are not Democrats.

[RandiFan1290]

55. It sure wasn't for the Florida Senate seat in 2010. nt

[murielm99]

65. I don't know what in the hell that means

and I am not sure I care.

You know perfectly well that most of us, especially long-term members and star members, are getting very tired of trolls, supporters of third party candidates and independents. There are plenty of other places for you to post. The owner of this website says so as well. Around here, his word carries more weight than mine.

[Hekate]

377. +1000

[LanternWaste]

80. There has been a litmus test for quite some time... it's called the Democratic Platform

There has been a litmus test for quite some time... it's called the Democratic Platform, regardless of your complaints about it.

[zipplewrath]

122. Actually, it's not

As has been discussed here at length lately, you can oppose portions of the platform and still be welcome here.

[emulatorloo]

160. Correct, every one who is on the left is welcome here. With just a couple of caveats

"Members are not expected to hold across-the-board progressive opinions on every single issue, but we do expect members to be generally progressive and to support Democrats at election time"

[Eliot Rosewater]

232. Sigh...not voting for HIllary is not opposing some portions of the platform,

it is opposing the party completely.

[Demsrule86]

266. But you still have to vote for the Democratic candidate.

[ehrnst]

82. Are you sure you're on the correct board for your political views? You are on DEMOCRATIC underground

That's the PARTY, not just the system of governance.

[zipplewrath]

125. Well I thought I was

I'm starting to wonder what other purity tests there are.

[brush]

183. Question: Are you the one who voted for every Dem on the ballot save Hillary?

It sure seems that way from your multiple posts on this thread.

[zipplewrath]

296. No

I pass the purity test. I've now voted for a Clinton for President 3 times. I'm actually one of the people that has wondered over the years whether we made a mistake when we nominated Obama over Hillary. I remember Andy Young was a big Hillary supporter back then and he said "Obama will make a great candidate, in 2016".

[ehrnst]

246. Here's a quick way to predict your dreaded "purity tests:"

Does it contradict the Democratic platform?

If yes, it's not welcome here.

Is that clearer?

[Raine1967]

230. IT was our candidate against

a homophobic, anti-woman, anti-Mexican American, anti-black, anti-Muslim, anti-handicapped disaster'



That's not purity, that's f*cking common sense. I'm having a hard time you don't see this.

[ehrnst]

248. +1000 (nt)

[XRubicon]

253. Welcome to DU!

Please check the website name closely.

[D23MIURG23]

289. One counterpoint would be that no one is obliged to share who they voted for.

I don't love loyalty tests either, but all you have to do to pass this one is to not come here and brag about voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or whoever. I'd think that people who would do that either haven't bothered to get to know the community and purpose of this place, or they are just here to troll.

[obamanut2012]

38. Bye!

[bettyellen]

45. See ya

[Hortensis]

376. Henry Wallace, it is merely an affirmation of our purpose,

stated in the terms of service you agree to when you joined. I hope you stay, but only if you truly support what the Democratic party has and is trying to accomplish for America, which absolutely would mean you voted for our candidate for president against what the various factions on the right are trying to do. Or lie awake nights bitterly regretting your failure to do so. This was, after all, a very seminal election.

You know, this forum has too many people who are ignorant of, do not understand, and as a result cannot appreciate the greatness of the Democratic party. They should be very proud. At a time when America has only one properly functioning political party, that it is ours is a tremendous break for the continuation of government of by and for the people and the principles of equality and justice for all. We're those people.

[Tarc]

398. I'm sure those were 162 quality posts

[IronLionZion]

6. So children under 18 and non-US citizens can go to hell

[cwydro]

9. Pretty sure that's was not what is meant by that statement. nt

[NurseJackie]

11. LOL!

[IronLionZion]

14. This was a joke, don't ban me yet.

[unblock]

15. no, no, no -- hell *dot com*. he just said they can go to another website, that's all.

[mwooldri]

23. I'll get me coat....

.... Nope, didn't vote Conservative either. Nor for Brexit.

[IronLionZion]

59. You won't need a coat where we're sending you

it's much warmer than jolly old England

[Maven]

29. LOL!

[hunter]

35. In general, are they "Trump enabling?" No.

Those who *could have* voted for Clinton in the GE but chose not to are Trump enabling.

Non-US citizens sowing discord about Clinton, well they too were Trump enabling.

I'd add to the go-to-hell list those who fell for the right wing noise about Clinton and chose to propagate it, even here on DU.

[wasupaloopa]

258. I don't get why you are pushing this thing so hard.

If you helped Trump get elected go somewhere else. If you voted for Hillary welcome.

You helped Trump by:

Not voting
Voting third party
Voting for Trump

So that is easy to figure out

[IronLionZion]

346. So hard!

[sprinkleeninow]

372. There ya go! eom

[IronLionZion]

383. Some DUers can't vote

so they have to go!

[sprinkleeninow]

397. Huh? 🤔

[IronLionZion]

399. If a DUer didn't vote

because they are under 18, not a US citizen, incarcerated, hospitalized, lost their voting rights through GOP voter restriction laws or other shenanigans, would you want them to leave our site?

[sprinkleeninow]

444. Ai Chihuahua! 🙄 I was replying to post number 258.

Addressing Wasup.

I said "there ya go!" IOW, Right on! 👍

Not, there's the door. Now git! 🤕

💗?🗽

[wasupaloopa]

452. You know that is not what we are talking about

[IronLionZion]

453. I know

Just putting it out there to make a point of inclusion for people who are with us in spirit.

[Ms. Toad]

362. My thought as well -

I was just scrolling down to see if someone else had made that point yet.

[wryter2000]

7. Woot!

Well done!!!

[HAB911]

8. +++++++++++

[TygrBright]

10. Cue the ultra combatant "Whatabouts" in 3... 2... Already here! n/t

[cwydro]

12. Is this new?

I'm all for it!

[obamanut2012]

41. YUp, today!

[cwydro]

17. You didn't vote for Hillary?

For whom did you vote? Enquiring minds want to know.

[Orrex]

26. Then let me personally thank you for helping to elect the idiot racist fuckhead

Ask Jill to say hi to Putin for me.

[krkaufman]

94. Remember the Electoral College

Probably need to know where someone's polling place is before judging how their vote affected the outcome.

[Orrex]

201. Not if that vote legitimizes a bullshit spoiler candidate

[cwydro]

28. Wow.

All righty then.

How's Trump workin' out for ya?

[disillusioned73]

33. Let me say..

as a Hillary voter.. you have the right to vote for whomever you wish

[lunamagica]

81. Absolutely! She has the right to vote for whomever she wishes. But that is not what this thread is

about. It's about who posts here. And people who didn't vote for the Democratic candidate for president are not welcomed on this Democratic forum. There are plenty of places where they can post.

[louis c]

21. Do you mean that you helped elect Trump?

Because if you didn't vote for HRC in the GE, you did exactly that.

It was a binary choice, in the end.

by the way, I've been here since 2004 and I never voted for anyone except the Dem in the finals.

[LovesPNW]

36. Let's extend that idea ...

Tell us, did you speak to every human being at every possible opportunity to convince them to NOT vote for Trump?

Did it work?

Do you mean that you helped elect Trump?

[louis c]

54. I am only responsible for me.

I live in Massachusetts and I knocked on 500 doors in New Hampshire. I made over 1,000 calls into New Hampshire from my union hall.

If every Bernie supporter did what I did in helping out in their home state, if it was a swing state, or went to the closest swing state, there would be no President* Trump.

But if you couldn't even convince yourself in understanding what was at stake and the only way to prevent it, you have only yourself to blame,

In 2008, I worked my ass off for Hilary in the Primaries. But when it was over, I did the same thing for Obama. You see, I know how this system works. In the end, there are only two choices.

Tell me something, if you refuse to make the choice of voting for the Democrat in the GE, what's the difference between that and the Repukes suppressing the vote? By you not pulling the right lever or checking the right box, you are playing into their hands.

That's your choice, but don't pretend that you and others like you aren't responsible for the fucking mess we're in.

[LovesPNW]

63. No, I just dislike the attempted marginalization of Bernie supporters

Being accused of aiding Trump is about as insulting as anything I can think of.

These are good, liberal citizens you are tearing down.

I guess I forgot to take my crazy pill.

[BlueMTexpat]

75. No one is "marginalizing" Bernie

supporters - UNLESS they did not vote for HRC in the GE.

The overwhelming majority did. And we ALL thank them! After all, many of us who supported HRC in 2008, supported BHO in the GEs in 2008 and 2012 ... and enthusiastically so. No matter how disappointed we were with 2008 primary results, we did NOT fail to support the Democratic candidate for President in the GE in those elections. And we were proud to do so.

Those who did not support the Democratic candidate, i.e., HRC, in the 2016 GE were NOT truly Bernie supporters, and certainly not Democrats.

Why should they be welcome on a website that specifically supports Democratic candidates? There are so many other sites that will welcome them with open arms.

[louis c]

77. If you didn't vote for Hilary in the General

that doesn't make you a bad person. After all, you didn't vote for Trump.

But is does mean that you cost us the election. For example, everyone who voted in Florida for Ralph Nader in 2000 helped elect George W. Bush. I know that was not their intention, but that's the definition of "unintended" consequences.

If everyone who voted 3rd party, left a blank or wrote in a vote for president in the General had it to do over again, knowing what you know now, would they do the same thing?

if somebody says to me "I wrote in Bernie in the November election, but now I know that was a big mistake. If I had it to do over again, I would have voted for HRC." I would not be upset with them. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way.

think of the Supreme Court, all the right wing judges. Think of all the harm that's being done that Hilary, even if you didn't like her, would never have done to people who think like us.

That's Skinner's point.

If you didn't vote for the Democrat in the General Election, knowing the harm that that has had on the country, would you do the same thing again?

If you would, then maybe this site is not for you.

[LovesPNW]

123. Yes, I DID vote for Hillary in the GE ..

Yet, given the rhetoric surrounding this subject area, in DU. I believe the regulars here are very anti-progressive, and certainly anti-Bernie

And if anyone is inclined to speak fondly of him, they are relentlessly hammered. Who is going to subject themselves to this constant gauntlet of negativity?

I guess sometimes love is a slap in the face by strangers - but it's not the kind of love I prefer.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

366. Well, you have my respect, as a fellow Bernie supporter who also voted for Hillary in the primary...

I'm used to taking the hits, but sometimes you just have to stand on principle... like Bernie.

[Hortensis]

454. You guys are getting splashed with a lot of blame meant for those who didn't vote for our candidate.

It's wrong and terribly unfair, at least for those who don't leap in to support the others. The deep anger against those people isn't going away any time soon, but hopefully the fewer of those who come here to express their hostility and phony rationalizations -- and especially to post anti-Democratic propaganda while pretending to be good Democrats -- the better it will be for all of us.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

462. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[emulatorloo]

89. The majority of Bernie supporters voted for the Democratic nominee.

A minority did not.

Please stop pretending that the minority who did not vote for the Democratic nominee are the Majority who did. That is totally false.

When people talk about Bernie or Busters they are talking about Bernie or Busters. Not Bernie, Not the the majority of Sanders supporters, not DU Sanders supporters as we all voted for the Democratic nominee in the GE.

Don't pretend you are a "victim" either, you are saying things that aren't true.

[Hortensis]

449. Exactly. Some 90%, at least of Bernie's GENUINE primary supporters voted Hill in the general.

Unfortunately, the great anger against that fringe spills over onto the many, mostly mainstream Democrats who initially supported Bernie, and that's been very hard and unfair on them. Hopefully this will help make DU right again for them too.

[mcar]

134. Who's marginalizing Bernie supporters?

Lots of people on this board supported Sanders in the primary, then supported and voted for HRC in the general.

That's not marginalizing.

Let's not mix up the primaries and general, hmmm?

[brush]

192. Are you missing the point of this thread on purpose?

It's about voting for the Democratic Party's candidate in the GENERAL ELECTION.

Not if you are/were a Sanders supporter in the primary and then voted for Hillary in the general/

OTOH, if you were/are a Sanders voter in the primary and then didn't vote for our nominee, Hillary Clinton, in the general election, then you deserve to be marginalized by being told that you are not welcome here.

That should be clear enough.

[Skittles]

378. if you didn't vote for Hillary

you enabled Trump

OWN IT

[krkaufman]

110. Many sides

First, your argument neglects to address the Electoral College. Kinda tough to say a vote for Jill Stein in California is responsible for Trump in the White House.

And the post focusing on Bernie supporters as the sole block responsible for Trump getting into the White House ignores the reality of the vote turnout, however satisfying the crusade might be.

Just one data point to review...

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/12/black-voter-turnout-fell-in-2016-even-as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/

Or is this drop also laid at Bernie's feet?

[louis c]

131. I think I made the EC argument clear

that Bernie voters should have done what I did after Hilary lost in 2008 and what I did in 2016.

that's help in the nearest "swing state". In my case, New Hampshire. You didn't have to travel their, but there were phone banks set up in Blue states that called into swing states.

We are only addressing Bernie voters here because only Bernie voters are complaining. If you voted for Bernie in the Primary but HRC in the General, as 80% of Bernie supporters did, than you're OK with me. If you wrote in Bernie or blanked the GE, but regret that action, hey, we learn the hard way and work together for a better day.

But if you still think blanking, writing in or voting third party was just fine and that you'd do it again, then you are not a reliable ally in this war of ideas, and you can't be trusted.

[Demsrule86]

386. That is correct. If you are a Democrat...once the general is over you fall in behind the candidate

and I am sure these pure type so called progressives (Greens) will whine about how the Democratic Party can't do this or that...when they helped tie the Democrats hands by voting for Trump one way or the other. They gave us Gorsuch...so I am with you and not in a forgiving mood.

[sprinkleeninow]

441. I yam of one mind and accord with what you say.

After the primary, cast your ballot for the CHOSEN candidate of the DEMOCRATIC party for Commander-in-Chief. Dammmittt.

[Demsrule86]

465. That is it...as I have said before I voted for anti-choice Tim Ryan in Ohio

(he recently changed his mind) because he was the Democrat.

[Squinch]

148. I lulzed.

[Blue_Tires]

32. Yeah, we're gonna miss your yearly 100-post input...

[narnian60]

247. Hahaha.

[obamanut2012]

40. Bye, Steiner!

[lunamagica]

68. Are you happy now? Serious question, are you happy now?

[louis c]

16. That's exactly how I feel.

[Blue_true]

18. Yep. I should be here. nt

[disillusioned73]

27. Good point..

vote privilege on full display?? you will vote for who we say!!.. is this the voting equivalent of "white privilege"??

& I voted for Clinton, but this is sillyness..

[iamateacher]

62. I agree,

and I voted for her.

[flibbitygiblets]

20. God, I hate this shit. Hey, let's pick a fight with each other, that will be so useful.

I hate R's and everything they stand for, except they don't infight (at least historically they didn't). Trump doesn't count because he's not really an R, he's just in it for himself.

[leftstreet]

24. It's kinda pointless because Hillary is history

I'm assuming from the quoted text it was a response to not catering to the ramblings of rabid Trump supporters.

Come primary season(s) none of this will matter

[Maven]

34. They do in-fight. Plenty. But they don't give a platform to spoilers and saboteurs. nt

[liquid diamond]

169. Ouch. Lol.

[LAS14]

25. What about people who changed their minds???? This seems like a stupid policy.

[TomSlick]

317. This is the post for which I was looking.

I'm all about people learning from their mistakes.

[Hortensis]

455. They are welcome, and you know it. This policy is for those whose hostility

and dishonesty endure, who come here to express dissension and resentment. Some on the left are anti-Democrat, and that doesn't just change with the mood. It's who they are. Others enjoyed soaking up the malicious anti-hillary Kool-Aid, and the chance that any of those somehow turned into people who would vote for her now is extremely poor.

[Demsrule86]

388. If you openly announce you voted for someone other than a Democrat...you are

encouraging others to do so. Read TOS. These are the same folks who left in a huff and now want back in order criticize Democrats and cause trouble.

[Steven Maurer]

31. If Sanders had won the nomination, I would have been happy to vote for him

Because any Democrat is better than any Republican. Period.

As it was, of course I voted for Hillary. A wonderful candidate. Incredibly qualified and of the temperament to be an excellent President.

[Demsrule86]

390. I would vote for any Democrat who was the candidate. Some say Hillary was this or that.

I say it doesn't matter what your opinion of Hillary was. She was the nominee period. The only one who could stop Trump. I do not care for Sen. Sanders. I just don't, but I would have voted for him and worked my heart out for him. Trump is a disaster. Just like with Bush, we will live with the consequences of his presidency for decades. Support Democrats. This is a Democratic site.

[obamanut2012]

37. YAYAYAYAYYAYAYAY

[Dr. Strange]

39. Fuck Colin Kaepernick and Kid Rock!

Neither one is welcome here.

[Steven Maurer]

48. Too stupid to vote in your own self interest? You're part of the problem.

And you certainly shouldn't be welcome to use the resources of people who are not that stupid, so as to further enable Trump and the GOP.

Screaming "everyone else isn't good enough" doesn't mean you're better than everyone else. It means you're indulging your sanctimonious petulance.

[LanternWaste]

83. Either your straw-man is burning, or your Freudian slip is showing

Do tell us of their warranted concern in regards to their not posting here, yes?

Either your straw-man is burning, or your Freudian slip is showing (or quite possibly, both).

[Dr. Strange]

104. I know they both read DU.

I just want to make it clear that neither one is welcome.

[Demsrule86]

391. So they voted for Trump?

[Dr. Strange]

394. Kid Rock did.

Kaepernick didn't vote because he thought they were both crooks.

Damn you Mr. Kaepernick! Damn you Mr. Rock!

[Demsrule86]

400. Then they don't belong here...They are not Democrats.

As for both being crooks...that makes my blood boil...it is untrue.

[cwydro]

412. Kid Rock reads DU???

Seriously?

[Dr. Strange]

414. Mainly the Cooking & Baking Forum.

But yes, it is well-known. I think he talks about it in one of his songs. Bawitdaba, maybe?

[cwydro]

417. Lol!

Thank you because I needed a giggle today.

[Dr. Strange]

418. :)

[sheshe2]

42. Happy Dance!

[R B Garr]

47. NICE! And very appropriate!

Smearing good Democrats is just inexcusable and self-defeating.

Great find there, NurseJackie, and a great quote, of course.

[CakeGrrl]

50. I'm good with that!

I did all I could do with my vote to keep Trump out - voted for the Democrat.

[lunamagica]

51. YAY!!! Thank you Skinner. and thank you Nurse Jackie for this thread!

[jrthin]

53. Thank you!!!nt

[nolabear]

56. Thank you DEMOCRATIC Underground.

DEMOCRATIC. As in, helping elect Democrats.

[Cryptoad]

57. yes, yes yes

[videohead5]

61. No Hillary and the DNC

Did not cheat Bernie out of the nomination.Hillary got almost 4 million more votes than Bernie.the DNC was broke and could not influence voters.they had no money.Bernie had more money and spent more than Hillary in the primaries.a few e-mails did not cost Bernie the nomination.

[Beartracks]

64. There's no penance option?

Doesn't DU have sacraments for truly repentant Democrats and converted Republicans?

================

[Vinca]

69. I voted for HRC, but I think this view is short sighted.

Surely there are voters who will awaken to the horror that is Trump and want to join Democrats. I don't think we should be encouraging them to go away.

[liquid diamond]

172. Bullshit!

[Vinca]

206. So Hillary lost some precincts in the upper Midwest by only a couple of votes.

If those people now regret their vote and turn up here intending to support the next Democratic candidate you don't want them? No wonder we lose elections.

[liquid diamond]

272. They knew what they were

doing in voting for a racist psychopath. Many will die as a result. You're damn right I don't want their votes. I'll focus on those who didn't vote at all. Fuck trump and ANYBODY who voted for him.

[Vinca]

293. Suit yourself, but it will guarantee a Democratic loss in 2020.

[xmas74]

316. No it won't.

Most groups will focus on those who didn't vote instead. It's easier to convert them.

I've worked campaigns. I've gone door-to-door. If a person states they're a Republican we've learned not to push, waste our time and instead to move on. It's rare to convert from one party to another and much easier to get someone who never voted to vote,if you figure out what they want.

[brush]

198. Simple solution: Keep your horrendous mistake to yourself.

[Vinca]

209. Say I made that horrendous mistake and came here after deciding to vote for Democrats.

If I saw this thread I'd pretty much say "fuck them" and leave. We want all the voters we can get. Failure to do so may mean an 8 year Trump term.

[brush]

214. Well, it is what it is. IMO someone who voted for trump can't be that fucking sensitive...

to get upset enough to walk away.

I mean if someone was stupid enough to vote for trump their senses have to have been dulled.

[Vinca]

222. I saw the freaking Duck Dynasty wife on CNN earlier today and it sounds like

even she is bailing on Don! Unless you like losing elections, we need to suck it up and accept people who realize they made a huuuuge mistake.

[brush]

223. Just tell 'em to keep their mouth shut about it then. What's that old saying...

better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

[Locrian]

380. agree - and yes I voted for HRC

At the very time that trumps support is wavering and people are looking for information - we tell them to go to hell?
It may "feel good" but it's not a very bright strategy.

[roamer65]

435. I agree with you 100 percent, Vinca.

We should be recruiting right now, not excluding.

[Hekate]

445. If you mean "DU voters," I don't think so. Persuasion outside DU is what MinMan does & all should do

... But frankly, if there is anybody left at DU who helped create the horror that is Trump -- they really should go away from here and not inflict their pathetic pov on the rest of us.

[OBenario4]

70. Divide and rule

"Divide and rule (or divide and conquer, from Latin dīvide et īmpera) in politics and sociology is gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into pieces that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. The concept refers to a strategy that breaks up existing power structures, and especially prevents smaller power groups from linking up, causing rivalries and fomenting discord among the people."

[LanternWaste]

88. No doubt, many naive people will pretend the Democratic party platform is illustrative of your point

No doubt, many naive people will pretend the Democratic party platform is illustrative of your point...

[Warpy]

72. Morons who enabled Dump

are going to have to slug it out on Discussionist, instead, and some of them might evolve enough to start voting Democratic in 2018. Probably not.

Most of them have heads full of lies and funny equations and would be bounced as trolls no matter how much buyer's remorse they're having these days.

[MineralMan]

73. And despite that, there will be people in this thread

who will say they did not vote for her. How weird. We'll see whether what Skinner said means anything by what juries do, I guess.

[mcar]

145. When you joined, you agreed to abide by the Terms of Service

that clearly state (bold mine):

Members are not expected to hold across-the-board progressive opinions on every single issue, but we do expect members to be generally progressive and to support Democrats at election time -- remember that and respect it when posting.

[jayschool2013]

220. Grammar

It was meant as a post that corrected grammar. The placement of the modifier "only" changes the meaning of the sentence.

I don't understand your warning about the terms of service. Am I violating them somehow?

Grammar fiends like me are annoying, I know, but if it earns me a timeout, so be it.

Sorry to upset you.

[Cary]

78. Is there any discussion to be had with a #fakepresident cultist?

#fakepresident is over the top, batshit crazy and both in theory and in practice I find that anyone who supports that man is a babbling moron, not worth talking to.

It has come to that.

[John1956PA]

79. I don't care for this "only welcomes" phrasiology.

For grammatical precision, it should read "welcomes only."

[rzemanfl]

93. There, their, they're. Calm yourself. n/t

[angrychair]

90. I agree

While I proudly campaigned and voted for Sanders in the primaries...

I just as proudly campaigned and voted for HRC in the general

Fuck trump

[Wibly]

91. Self defeating

You need to win over voters in order to take back the Houses and the Presidency, not further alienate them.
You also at some point need to address that Trump did not win so much as the Dems lost the last election, and the way you lost was by deliberately alienating your base.
What the party did to push Sanders down and to avoid a floor fight at the Convention had more to do with Trump's win than Trump's campaign.
Your base stayed home because you alienated them, not because Trump was a winner.
If you stick to the approach you are taking here, you will lose again.
Please think!

[OBenario4]

92. This. n/t

[FSogol]

98. "Your base"? Shouldn't that be "Our base?"

Obvious!

[SunSeeker]

115. Yep. nt

[NurseJackie]

119. Good catch!

[sheshe2]

341. LOL!

You copped my gif!

[NurseJackie]

415. I love it so much! I could watch it for hours...

... I only wish there was sound to go with it.

[sheshe2]

423. It's a keeper! :)

BTW...Great OP!

Thank, NJ~

[emulatorloo]

179. Good catch thanks n/t

[skylucy]

241. FSogol....You nailed that one! Excellent observation!

[lapucelle]

311. Where are the grammar police when you need them? N/T

[FSogol]

330. Whooosssshh!

[Wibly]

492. No, it is your

I'm a Canadian. The proper term is "your" because yours is not mine.
As an outsider looking in, I'm simply telling you, as with any conflict, you need to be able to view your own role in it, or it will never be resolved.

[NurseJackie]

101. I think there's some confusion about what "the base" actually means.

In reality: the party's "base" are actually the most loyal, dedicated, supportive, enthusiastic and reliable voters.

Did you mean to say something else other than "base"?

[Maven]

112. We're not accommodating political blackmailers, spoilers, and saboteurs any longer.

There are plenty of other untapped voters to energize and activate. We don't need to bow down to dead-enders and holdouts who don't vote or vote third party in the end, no matter how hard we try to please them. And we are not about to alienate loyal constituencies (our actual base) by trying to please people who define themselves as the counterculture to the Democratic Party. The dead-enders and holdouts are not the 'base'.

This is a site for people who support and vote for Democrats. Period.

[FSogol]

129. Exactly, a new group turns 18 every year and only half the country votes anyway.

Plenty of people to reach out to without bending over backwards to accommodate malcontents, delusional purists, and outright rat fuckers.

[obamanut2012]

135. perfectly on point, maven

[brer cat]

407. Well said, Maven.

I don't know why some people are shocked (!) or upset at skinner's comment. What part of "Democratic" don't they understand? This site is not group therapy for deplorables nor is it a grassroots organization to plot the overthrow of the Party.

[Squinch]

157. Uhhh... speaking to us from somewhere outside the party, are you?

Also, lots o' bullshit in there.

[Wibly]

493. I'm Canadian

So yes, I'm speaking from the outside.
I'm also simply stating the obvious. If you want to resolve a conflict, you need to be able to accurately understand your own role in it.

Also, it is way too easy to simply write me off as being a Trumpette, which I am not. I am an outside, looking in, with some objectivity. My objectivity however does not include supporting Trump. Trump is scum.

[brush]

204. BS! Stop ignoring the elephant in the election room. The election was stolen by...

Comey, Putin, and voter suppression.

[sheshe2]

228. Shouldn't that "You" be We"?

You need to win over voters in order to take back the Houses and the Presidency, not further alienate them.
You also at some point need to address that Trump did not win so much as the Dems lost the last election, and the way you lost was by deliberately alienating your base.

And the "Your" shouldn't that be "Our"?

Your base stayed home because you alienated them, not because Trump was a winner.
If you stick to the approach you are taking here, you will lose again.
Please think!

[leftofcool]

259. This is a board for Democrats and those who promote Democrats

This is not a board for winning over Trump voters.

[Phentex]

401. It seems very simple...

a basic concept that should be easy to understand. I don't think any progressive should be offended by Skinner's statement.

[obamanut2012]

265. YOU NEVER REALLY LOVED SKINNER

[treestar]

467. The definition of the base is that

they are the diehards. They never stay home.

[Hulk]

95. Divide and conquer....we all know the rules on this website, or should.

I was a Bernie supporter, but was also a HRC supporter and cast my vote accordingly. I just feel this finite definition of who is welcome here is self destructive. We all know the rules of the website. It's to promote Democratic ideology and political representation.

I understand pretty well what folks are saying here, but I think we are doing a disservice by analyzing this right down to what soap you used when you shower.

Don't need a lecture....just an observation of what this sort of thread does to support for the Democratic Party in the future elections. Is this who we are?

[brush]

212. Let's break it down. The site is to help elect Democrats, not just...

"to promote Democratic ideology and political representation."

That's a little too broad.

It's to get DEMOCRATS ELECTED.

[Hulk]

262. We're on the same page...

I thought "....promote (Democratic) representation..." implied getting Democrats elected.

[Lunabell]

96. This Bernie sister voted for her.

While I disagree with Hillary in many ways, voting for anyone but a Democrat in the GE was unacceptable.

[dogandturtlemom]

97. I would not push this exclusionary position

Even Hillary evolved with the influence of Bernie's campaign. The great thing about the Democratic Party and those with progressive positions is that we can see grey. Not all is black or white. In reality, the majority are more progressive in their political positions. Many were deluded by influence of the media and social media. As Harvard studies showed, there was more attention focused on spurious scandals of HRC than Trump, and little focus was paid on policy issues. The Democratic Party needs to repeat its support for all Americans, particularly the most vulnerable. Keep it simple and repeat it over and over. Listen and interact to bring more in. OPEN YOURSELF TO MORE THAN JUST A HILLARY VOTER.
A Bernie supporter, but HRC for BE.

[HAB911]

100. Just remember: we could have avoided all of this

AND had taco trucks on every corner.

Link to tweet

[GaryCnf]

102. Hasn't this been the policy more or less forever?

I am sure the same goes for the 25% of Clinton 2008 primary voters who refused to vote for Obama.

Since 1968, when I cast my first vote, I have put my mark next to the (D) even when our nominee threw me/us under the bus and even when I didn't like most of what our nominee was saying because I CAN COUNT TO TWO (It's a binary system, even if it technically isn't.) and I know the (R) will put a gun to my/our head.

This isn't about "who supported who in the primary" or "who is the future of the Democratic Party and who is the past" or refighting the primary or even how we lost us the last election - even though many/most of those cheering now appear to think it is.

It's about voting for the Democratic nominee.

I'm with that.

[Phentex]

416. I think so

and it seems simple enough. I'm not sure why there is such a wringing of hands over this.

[OregonBlue]

105. Maybe Skinner should just say: This site is for those who voted for the Democratic candidate for

president in 2016.

[pat_k]

303. Why just 2016?

If "This site only welcomes people who voted for HRC in the GE," means that a person who, at the time they join or post, is committed to doing everything in their power to make sure Democrats prevail in future General Elections, and who has no intention to advocate voting against Democrats, should nevertheless be banned if they voted for Stein, or didn't vote, then the terms of service need to be revised to reflect that. They do not currently have any such principle or restriction.

And if this restriction is made explicit in the Terms of Service, it must necessarily be a blanket restriction, because the belief that underlies it is that people are incapable of evolving politically, and anyone who ever identified as a member of another party, or who voted against (or failed to vote for) the Democratic candidate is forever suspect and stained, and therefore barred from participating on this Democrats Only site.

To apply the restriction to some, but not all elections, would be capricious and arbitrary. By what objective criteria would you draw the line? Who decides which elections of the past many decades it was ok to vote "Not Democrat" and which it was not? What if the person was in a state that was safely HRC, and just cast a vote to say Yes to issues raised by a "not Dem." candidate. Do we bar all Nader voters? Do we bar all Perot voters? Do we bar all Anderson voters? McKinney voters? Is the restriction based on results? Is the problem that Hillary lost? Would you bar all "not Hillary" voters if she had won? If the objective criteria boils down to results, it would be a rule meant to punish in a way that strikes me "nasty" and therefore inconsistent with DU principles.


Is the principle that "people cannot evolve politically" really one we want to endorse as a community?

[OBenario4]

106. I'm not American.

I'm Brazilian, but I lived in the US for some months, while studying in Chicago. I like Democratic Underground for different reasons: 1 - Meeting people with progressive mindset; 2 - practicing my English; 3 - keeping in contact with different outlooks about international politics.

I know a lot of people in the United States that hate Trump. But they didn't vote for Hillary. That's basically because they felt it wouldn't make much of a difference.

It's not the voters who need the Democrats. The Democrats are the one who need the voters. If they didn't care to leave their houses to vote for Hillary it's time to question: "why?". Why are they so distant from the party?

Some self-criticism is as much or even more important than criticism toward Bernie Sanders' voters.

[emulatorloo]

120. No one is criticizing the majority of Bernie voters, as we voted for HRC in the general

There is criticism of the minority of Bernie voters who did not. Please do not elide the two. It is dishonest.

[OBenario4]

128. But simply saying "hey, we don't want you here" is pointless.

If these people voted for Bernie, they probably have more in common with the Democrats than with the Republicans.

It's the kind of people the Democrats should be trying to attract. Not pushing away.

[FreepFryer]

144. I'm sorry did you just 'Brazil-splain' American Democratic Party politics to us? No thanks. (n/t)

[OBenario4]

147. Well, I don't buy into this...

... "You're either with us, or against us" rhetoric, much less the patriotic bullshit, or the postmodern "putthenameofanythinghereSPLAINNING" thing.

But, hey, whatever.

I wouldn't be surprised seeing a thread "foreigners go home" next. Maybe that explains why the Democratic Party is failing to attract voters' support.

[FreepFryer]

152. Stay or go, I don't care what you think and I care less for your presumption that it matters. (n/t)

[OBenario4]

154. Ok, then.

Next time a Republican wins an election, remember this.

[FreepFryer]

159. I'll think, "if only that Brazilian person had voted in our election illegally?" GIVE ME A BREAK.

At a web site for American Democratic Party supporters, your entitlement to express your arrogance is as unwelcome as your opinion.

[OBenario4]

164. You sound exactly like the xenophobic jerks of FreeRepublic.

That's probably what my American friends tried to explain when they said "some Hillary voters are really not that different from Trump's supporters".

[FreepFryer]

167. It's not xenophobia at all - it's not your place to presume to advise US on Democratic politics. Nt

[OBenario4]

173. Oh, give me a break. You spent hours talking about other countries...

... and discussing international politics.

But "it's not in my place" to talk about it?

Why?
Are you too "exceptional" to listen to foreigners opinions?

Yep, pal. It is xenophobic.

[FreepFryer]

175. When we are talking about Brazilian politics I will listen gladly to your unsolicited opinion...

...this is American politics and frankly few people give a crap what advice you have for us.

We've got this, keep your political teachings to yourself until you get that green card.

[OBenario4]

178. Ok, pal!

Put your white hoods on, light your torches and make a protest demanding DU to forbid foreigners of discussing American politics, then.

[FreepFryer]

180. Wow, really? Comparing me to the KKK for pointing out that Americans don't need your opinions ?

You are really showing your true colors.

Ever study Russian?

[OBenario4]

182. Honey, I don't who do you think you are...

... but I recognize no authority on you to speak in the name of "Americans" or to say what foreigners are or not allowed to talk.

Yes. Your mindset is not quite far from KKK. Really.

[FreepFryer]

186. In ad hominem, you have now called me xenophobic, kkk, 'pal' and 'honey'.

You seem confused.

[OBenario4]

190. Yep, and I'll call you more things if you insist in your xenophobic remarks. n/t

[FreepFryer]

191. It's not xenophobic to ask non-citizens to avoid explaining Democratic politics to Americans.

Your name calling and gender baiting is the only interesting thing you've contributed to this conversation.

[Beringia]

193. Speak for yourself

"advice you have for us", like you speak for everyone in America

[FreepFryer]

194. LOL! (n/t)

[Judi Lynn]

195. You should not speak for other citizens in telling this poster not to post here.

Do you attack British posters here, or Canadians? Who gave you the authority to speak for other posters?

Looks very much as if "xenophobic" is the word to use.

[FreepFryer]

200. I didn't, if you actually read my post. (n/t)

"This site only welcomes people who voted for HRC in the GE."

[dogandturtlemom]

274. How is that for closed minded

We learn from others. They learn from us.

[FreepFryer]

276. Great point, thanks! And, if you voted for HRC in the GE, welcome to DU! (n/t)

[Sparkly]

322. Find better "American friends."

[wryter2000]

213. A Republican DID win

With the help of the people who are complaining now. That's the point.

[FreepFryer]

219. +1. (n/t)

[leftstreet]

161. Yes, go home!

To your beautiful beaches!





(Lived for a time in São Paulo)

[Judi Lynn]

202. Why would you mock this excellent, intelligent poster by saying 'Brazil-splain'? Hate-speak.

If that isn't xenophobic, what is?

[FreepFryer]

205. '"Mansplaining" is not mocking manhood, it's mocking presumptiveness & privilege.

That's how it was meant.

Specifically, such advice from a non-citizen to Democrats on DU, which go against Skinner's comment in that very thread is about as welcome here as a typical mansplain is welcome to any woman anywhere.

That's to say nothing of comparing them to kkk members for expressing such a sentiment. Gross.

Think for a moment - and read what they actually say - before you leap to defend someone at another's expense.

[obamanut2012]

269. It is apparent you know nothing about this poster

The criticism is warranted.

I will be glad to answer PMs if you are interested. This is one a good progressive shouldn't defend, for real.

[OBenario4]

318. Judy is a friend of mine. She has known me much longer than you.

But feel free to engage in smear campaigns. She knows better.

[Judi Lynn]

440. You don't know that poster at all, or you wouldn't want to do this.

It's probably not sensible to be telling a poster "good progressives" agree only with you or your cohort.

I know "from" good progressives, through a lifetime's experience.

You might want to pull back on your attacking others.

[obamanut2012]

267. Don't even engage with this dude

PM for deets.

[emulatorloo]

151. Sadly you've shifted the goalposts. . Of course we will try to convince them.

However the topic of the thread is Democratic Underground.

This is what you agreed to when you signed up with DU:

"Democratic Underground is an online community for friendly, politically liberal people who understand the importance of working together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government."

"Members are not expected to hold across-the-board progressive opinions on every single issue, but we do expect members to be generally progressive and to support Democrats at election time"

[Lil Missy]

282. A vote for Bernie was a vote for trump. Period.

They have more in common with repukes - they both voted against the Democratic nominee.

[moonscape]

216. Off-topic comment:

Your English is excellent. Practicing it? You should be teaching it! You write far better than a large % of Americans

[elehhhhna]

109. I voted for HRC you but I can't prove it do I still get to stay

[SunSeeker]

111. K & R

[WinkyDink]

116. No brass band, cake, and ice-cream? Oh, it means "This site welcomes ONLY those who...."

Adverb Nazi. :-P

[stonecutter357]

117. K&R

[mcar]

121. Thank you Skinner

And NurseJackie!

[NurseJackie]

126. :-D

[ucrdem]

124. K'n'R

There's only one DU and that's DU!



to Skinner and the lads

[RandiFan1290]

127. Nice to see Sen. Bernie Sanders is still welcome at DU!! nt

[SleeplessinSoCal]

130. there should be an addendum re: Putin targeting Bernie supporters

They got roped in with the "Obama voters".

[Bradshaw3]

133. I voted for HRC but want to win elections for Dems

Is telling voters who gave the WH and Congress to the repubs to go to hell the way to win them back? Seems to me if that is the attitude toward people who could change their minds then the repubs will win their votes and the election again.

[Demsrule86]

392. I have no interest in winning them back ...this is not intervention underground but Democratic

Underground.

[Bradshaw3]

431. There were Obama voters who voted for drumpf

So if you don't want them back you're ok with permanent repub control of government? It doesn't take an intervention to get those people to vote their interests again. Like I said I want Democrats to win elections, which I thought was a common goal here.

[Demsrule86]

464. I don't believe that...never have.

[Bradshaw3]

466. Fake news huh?

There's no arguing with that (non)-logic.

[Demsrule86]

470. Anyone could claim to be an Obama voter. People often lie. The people here in Ohio

who voted for Trump were mostly first time voters from what I see on the ground. Of course there were progressives who wouldn't vote for Hillary...but most stayed home or voted for Stein ...the ones I know. The GOP and others like Turner and Saradon...did their best to destroy Hillary she was attacked on the right and the left. No, I don't believe most who helped elect Trump were Obama voters and we have to 'get them back'. and no matter what groups like our revolution will only hurt any electoral effort.

[Bradshaw3]

473. You have a right to an opinion but not to your own facts

The anecdotal evidence and rationalization of people "lying" you gave goes against the facts. A non-partisan study said nine percent of Obama voters voted for drumpf:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/06/voter_study_group_and_why_obama_voters_defected_to_trump.html
Nine percent in an election that close is very important. Your statement that "most who helped elect Trump were Obama voters" is a claim that has never been made by anybody. So you've got false claims and opinion to back your "feelings" on the subject. I'll rely on facts and the belief that to win elections for Dems you have to appeal to those in the middle who have shown in the past their votes are winnable. I want Dems to win elections, not keep on losing.

[Demsrule86]

475. You have no provable facts I can rip holes in the slate article as big as Texas...let's

just agree to disagree.

[Bradshaw3]

478. Can't agree to give up on facts you find inconvenient to your beliefs

Here's another article in the NYT (using several different surveys) for you:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/upshot/the-obama-trump-voters-are-real-heres-what-they-think.html?mcubz=0

The quote from it: But postelection surveys, pre-election surveys, voter file data and the actual results all support the main story: The voters who switched from President Obama to Mr. Trump were decisive.


You have a belief that the facts aren't facts because they don't fit with your preconceived ideas. There is a group that fits that description and it's just as wrong for them to follow that path as it is for a Democrat. Saying you can rip holes in these studies doesn't make it so. You are just trying to defend a belief which is totally contradicted by facts. Unless you think the NYT is fake news. I will not accepth that or that it is ok for someone to ignore facts and reasoning.

[Demsrule86]

484. Right, the word 'survey' means the poll is completely meaningless.

I fail to see why it matters who likes Sen. Sanders. He won't be running in 20 so who cares? Time to put the bitter 2016 election behind us.

[Bradshaw3]

485. This doesn't even make sense

The issue was about Obama voters voting for trump. And no survey does not make it meaningless. Were you replying to another thread, trying to defelct, or having a senior moment? Again, you have a right to your opinion but not your own facts. Enough Obama voters switched to trump to sway the election. Fact.

[Demsrule86]

486. I find survey polls unreliable.

Just my opinion. If you look at the numbers...those who claim they voted for Obama in 12 over shoot the total Obama voters by 7% in 12...unreliable.

[Bradshaw3]

487. I'll believe the people who know how to interpret scientific data

Rather than people who don't like scientific data that doesn't fit into their worldview. Science over opinion any day, whether it's climate data or vaccien data or this.

[Demsrule86]

488. If you look at the numbers, they don't work. About 7% more votes for Pres. Obama

than their actually were. People lie. This is why exit polls are often wrong.

[Bradshaw3]

489. Actually exit polls are usually right

And once again you make claims based on nothing more than your opinions. Science over opinion.

[erronis]

136. I can't read through all the pros and cons. But if this site becomes an absolutist either/or

Then I can't accept it.

I'm a liberal first. A small d democrat second. A large D democrat perhaps next.

This type of stereotyping is exactly what the evangelicals/RW folks do.

Maybe I missed the <sarcasm> flag or something but this is totally undermining an inclusive viewpoint.

[NurseJackie]

138. You understand that this is just an online forum and not the actual Democratic Party, right?

[erronis]

149. Thanks - Like many, I think there's a lot of equating going on.

[JCanete]

348. Sure, what makes it a good philosophy here? nt

[mcar]

150. You agreed to the Terms of Service when you joined

It clearly states:

Members are not expected to hold across-the-board progressive opinions on every single issue, but we do expect members to be generally progressive and to support Democrats at election time -- remember that and respect it when posting.

Support Democrats at election time.

[erronis]

158. Yup - and I voted for HRC. What's your point?

If DU can't accept other discussions outside of the lock-step approach that this all seems to imply then it has become another "your with me or your against me." Hard to have any intelligent discussions with people that only accept Their Way.

[emulatorloo]

171. Everybody who is progressive is welcome here. You see a post that insists on lockstep, alert on it

There are just a couple caveats in TOS, nothing that seems onerous. As you remember:

"Democratic Underground is an online community for friendly, politically liberal people who understand the importance of working together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government."

"Members are not expected to hold across-the-board progressive opinions on every single issue, but we do expect members to be generally progressive and to support Democrats at election time "

My way or the highway stuff definitely needs heavy duty pushback.

[mcar]

185. Skinner is talking about General Election voting

Not discussions. Sweet baby Jesus, all we do is discuss here and many of them are quite critical of the Democratic Party.

[Squinch]

163. The actual choices were as follows: Vote for Hillary, Vote for Trump(R), enable Trump(R).

Only one of those did not saddle the world with a madman with his finger on a nuclear trigger.

You can't accept that those imbeciles who did that are not welcomed here?

Well. They aren't. Now what?

[Demsrule86]

393. Have you noticed those folks have Congress and the presidency?

Maybe they are on to something. Unless we exhibit more Democratic loyalty...we will lose. No candidate is perfect. Vote for the candidate with the 'D' next to his or her name as Carey is fond of saying.

[California_Republic]

139. What if I just came eligible to vote?

[Big_K]

140. I shall not appologize for my Paulson vote

(in 1968)* **

*Not really

** Kids, ask your parents!

[emulatorloo]

166. Brings back so many fun memories, thanks!

[Gore1FL]

141. It's self-defeating, but whatever. It's his site. nt

[GeorgeGist]

142. How binary.

My granddaughter wasn't old enough to vote.

[alfredo]

156. It's his site, he can do as he damn well pleases. This is probably a hoax.

[emulatorloo]

207. ...

Not a hoax https://www.democraticunderground.com/125912898#post1

Yr right Skinner's site, Skinner's rules. Site has always said support Democrats at election time

[alfredo]

304. I have a hard time getting upset over things that happen on the internet.

[shanny]

162. Seems short-sighted.

48.2% of 58%

[Daxter]

168. *facepalms

You assume because I am a sanders supporter that I didn't vote for Hillary in the general election. You couldn't be more wrong, when it was time for the GE I voted for Hillary. It was an easy choice, she's not insane, she was WAAAAY more qualified than Trump. She understands how government works, she gives a shit about the middle class (I could go on). Is she perfect? No, no politician is. But I am a team player, unlike you. You ASSuming all sanders supporters voted for Trump is dishonest, divisive, and ignorant. Instead of asking Sanders supporters why they preferred him over Hillary, you instead bash them and continue to exclude them because they supported Sabders and didn't support Hillary from day one of her candidacy. The Democratic Party needs to come together and stop fighting each other or we will keep losing to the republicans.

[NurseJackie]

174. Actually, I've made no such assumptions about you.

[drmeow]

176. I voted for HRC

What about people who genuinely regret their decision and won't do it again? Seems to me if they are willing to commit to vote for Democratic candidates moving forward they should be part of the site. On the other hand, if they defiantly would do it again then their values do not match the site's values.

[GentryDixon]

177. Agree.

This is Skinner's site. He sets the rules.

I proudly voted for Hillary & even tweeted about it when I sent my ballot off in the mail. It was the first tweet I had sent since the 2012 election when I was trolling Romney.

[Eliot Rosewater]

187. Wow, that is AMAZING AMAZING and AWESOME

And is now my signature.

[NurseJackie]

225. Brilliant!

(I'm really surprised at the responses here. I must admit I'm a bit puzzled by all the consternation and emotional hand-wringing. Go figure.)

[RandomAccess]

256. Exlcusiveness, divisiveness and cliques will

sometimes do that for ya. Goes with the territory.

[NurseJackie]

257. Apparently so...

... thanks for the reminder.

[Still In Wisconsin]

188. What a stupid policy!

So, if someone didn't vote in the GE and becomes engaged in Democratic politics, we don't want them? How about my misguided brother who voted for TRUMP, sincerely regrets it, and now says he's going to vote for any Democrat who runs against him next time around... fuck him, we don't want him?

Would we have done this to people who voted once (or twice) for W and then came around to vote for Kerry, or Obama? Fuck them too?

This is just petty, lame, and self-defeating.

[SharonClark]

357. You are confusing DU and Democratic Party outreach.

Is your brother interested in participating in DU?

[melman]

189. There's another post in there the OP probably won't like as much

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125912901#post1

[NurseJackie]

197. Why wouldn't I like it? Besides, this thread isn't about Bernie at all...

... and it's not about me either. Where, exactly, did you want to go with this?

[L. Coyote]

199. AND, don't f***king say you're a Dem on your way out if you didn't.

Now say one Our Father, three Hail Mary's and hope the Good Lord doesn't send you to hell anyway.

[Bleacher Creature]

203. A-freakin-men! NT

[Greybnk48]

208. As it should be! n/t

[sanduca]

210. No Right Wingers

It only makes sense...why should they be here? They have plenty websites for their taste, no need to allow them here. Thank you!

[mudstump]

215. Core principles of this site states the following:

"Democratic Underground is an online community for friendly, politically liberal people who understand the importance of working together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government."

How does this post meet the Terms set forth by this website?

[XRubicon]

239. Are you welcome here?

[BainsBane]

242. Why don't you run tell Skinner

That he is violating the terms of his own website by suggesting the term Democratic in the title actually means something.

[NurseJackie]

245. :-D That's a most excellent idea.

[stopbush]

217. Agreed. I don't care if you voted for every D up and down the ballot.

If you didn't vote for Hillary in the GE, fuck you. You're an asshole. Get the hell off DU.

[Raine1967]

224. If a DU Member is not a 'Trump-enabling moron' and voted for our candidate in the election:

Candidate. I am fine with that.

I cannot believe there are people here who don;t get that. It's not purity (as I have seen on sme of the posts here) "" It's about being a part of DEMOCRATIC underground.

[tonyt53]

226. And I do feel welcome!

[AllyCat]

231. While i fit the bill, it seems ridiculous to make that

A condition of membership. I can understand not allowing Trump trolls but jeez.

[BainsBane]

233. Did you miss the the title of the website?

The part that says DEMOCRATIC? This should come as news to exactly no one.

[AllyCat]

237. Good grief

[BainsBane]

243. What's the difference between a Trump troll and a Stein troll?

I can think of only one. Many Trump voters thought they were making a decision that was best for America. Stein trolls knew they were allying with a fascist but chose to do so out of hatred and bigotry toward the Democratic base whose rights they continue to target to this day. In any comparison between them and the average Trump voter, they come up worse. They can fuck themselves with the Tiki torches they share with their Nazi soulmates. They had an opportunity to stand up to fascism, and they chose Hitler. That is who they are. It is who they will always be.

[XRubicon]

234. I am Spartacus

[Eliot Rosewater]

235. Some of the responses here remind me that we need a forum here called

"how the 2 party system works"

[NurseJackie]

238. You're correct.

[mcar]

251. Really

An entire chapter on the difference between primaries and general elections would be welcome.

[Eliot Rosewater]

252. And in the section on primaries explain how trying to dESTRoY

a candidate who ends up in the general is a bad idea as well.

[mreilly]

236. I am in total and complete enthusiastic agreement

I voted for Bernie in the primary then when Hillary got the nomination I proudly voted for her in the GE.

When your house is about to be set on fire by orange-haired lunatics and your buddy Bernie your favorite firefighter ain't around but Hillary is ready for duty, you ask Hillary to put that fire out.

You don't scout around looking for another firefighter because you're pissed that Bernie isn't around and you just can't have it any other way.

I loudly and clearly said: "Please help us, Hillary, and put the fucking fire out."

Those who couldn't get over it and decided to go recruit another firefighter are why my house is on fire today.

Period.

[lunatica]

240. I voted for Hillary

Although I started off by supporting Bernie Sanders because I'm a Progressive Democratic Socialist.

[Linc13]

244. If you stayed home during the election...

or voted for Trump to teach Democrats a lesson for the sake of purity than this thread or website is not for you.

[brokephibroke]

249. Agree 100%!

[radical noodle]

250. Let's face it

Real Democrats voted for HRC. Period.

[NurseJackie]

255. It's really just that simple, isn't it? All this hemming and hawing, whining, complaining...

... truly puzzles me.

[radical noodle]

286. It sure is...

and I'll be happy to see any remaining faux progressives gone from here. How will we know unless they show themselves for what they are? It's not like there's a quiz.

[betsuni]

345. Maybe there are some guilty consciences.

Can't think of another reason why anyone would take this personally.

And I think it's odd that people still say "Hillary supporters" to mean Democrats, as in those who voted for the Democratic nominee for president in the last election, as if it's all about a personality and not the party (which for them I guess it is and they're projecting).

[NurseJackie]

468. You are correct.

Thank you.

[RandomAccess]

254. I voted for Hillary, no contest

BUT I might not have, had I not been nearly as tuned in to all the political happenings. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until the Republican convention that i realized voting for her was an absolute necessity because Trump represented an existential threat to the US.

But she wasn't my first choice and wouldn't have been A choice at all had I not become fully aware of the horror and danger that Trump presented to the nation. Not everyone can spend the time with the political news that I do and any who weren't able or not quite that interested, OR who unwittingly came under the influence of the Russian bots who exploited Sanders supporters shouldn't be ostracized, IMO.

[marlakay]

260. And please do remember most of us Bernie folks

Did vote for her so don't keep beating us up about him. He is a very nice old guy who has been a great help on the left for many years.

[NurseJackie]

270. This OP does nothing of the sort.

...so don't keep beating us up about him...

I'm puzzled. Why do you think the OP has anything to do with Bernie, or has anything to do with his supporters who voted for our party's nominee?

Please explain, if you can, exactly how you feel that the OP is "beating up" anyone other than Trump, Stein and Johnson voters*? (*And any other assorted abstainers or write-in protest voters, of course.)

[DesertRat]

268. "Trump-enabling morons can find some other website"

[NurseJackie]

275. I know, right? That was a great line!

[DesertRat]

287. It's perfectly succinct

[pecosbob]

271. Vladimir must be laughing his ass off at this one

[NurseJackie]

279. How so? What's so amusing?

[mcar]

301. Umm, what?

[Demsrule86]

277. Very clear if you ask me....and true!

Hi nurse...thanks for this post.

[NurseJackie]

280. :-D

[nightwing1240]

278. Pleased to say I qualify too!

I ALWAYS vote a straight Dem ticket up and down the ballot, always have and always will!

[RhodeIslandOne]

283. If you didn't vote for Hillary, you stood by and let a madman assume control

My vote didn't count in the metrics.....I live in a heavily blue state.

I still took pride in standing up to the lunatic. Now we suffer every day because other people failed to stand up.

[JCanete]

288. Personally, I think its a dumb statement. I understand drawing lines so that you can narrow or focus

the subject matter that the site will handle, but this statement is about what people did in the past, not what they might do on the board? So people can't change? They aren't welcome here if they do have a change of heart, philosophy, world-view? This kind of shit is self-defeating. Can anybody actually ascribe a value to this approach? The only thing I can see it doing is getting people to either leave if they are offended or discouraged by that kind of message, or alternatively, to lie about whether or not they voted for Clinton in the GE if they prefer to stay and continue to engage in the discussions people have here.

[defacto7]

290. I support this site and it's premise. I also support

Skinner and his position. It's his site and he should do whatever he wants with it.
I don't think we're talking forgiveness. Hell, I could care less about that. But politically speaking or even considering the math, there is a point where we have to think in terms of unity. If we don't come together for the vote AND we don't come together under the Democrat party line... we will fail. There are no numbers under any third party that will work. It's futile.
I would think, let the arguments take place, let the information accumulate, reasonably "moderate" ourselves... but when the votes count we have to choose whatever will bring people to a point where they will choose the candidate that will bring back sanity. The winning candidate will be from the Democratic party.
Just for perspective, I know Republicans who voted for Hillary. Chew on that one.

[Mr.Bill]

291. Can someone tell me

how we can prove who someone voted for?

[radical noodle]

305. We don't have to

they will show themselves eventually.

[Mr.Bill]

309. In who's opinion?

Who makes the decision?

[radical noodle]

334. I would imagine the same people

who decide about banning anyone. It certainly won't be the occasional person who might dislike a post.

[XRubicon]

297. Looks like you have it all correct. Goodbye.

[DarthDem]

300. Bye

Bye.

[johnp3907]

307. Oh, how we'll miss you!

[R B Garr]

314. Wow, people casually excusing voting for Bernie

because it was a "safe" "blue" state are coming out of the woodwork. Interesting.

That's why have Trump.

[torius]

365. How is that?

How would voting for Bernie in Cal elect Trump? I don't get it. Same people who elected Kamala Harris.

[Demsrule86]

387. If they failed to vote for the Democratic candidate, they don't belong here.

I don't care where they live.

[R B Garr]

434. Exactly. There was a destructive strategy promoted

nationally, so no excuses. Obviously many people in crucial states bought into it and tipped the election. Now look what we have.

[Demsrule86]

471. And some and we know pretty well who they are ...still at it...with snide comments about Democrats.

[Sparkly]

323. If you aren't part of the solution...

... you're part of the problem.

(Do we need a constant military draft for you to know what that means?)

[samplegirl]

295. Agree!

[OBenario4]

302. Oh, sorry then.

I thought I had logged in the Democratic Underground, not the Hillary Clinton's Fan Club website.

[Sparkly]

325. I'm sorry, too.

I didn't imagine that anyone at Democratic Underground wouldn't have supported the Democratic nominee for president.

My bad, I guess.

[alittlelark]

306. Not sure if that is wise....People have been known tochange their minds....

I would hate to see the 3 people I know who voted for tRump and are seriously regretting it be turned away. They are young and impressionable. They voted R because their families ALWAYS vote R.

[Sparkly]

332. They can still lurk and learn.

Heh. Just made that up.

[GetRidOfThem]

310. I voted for HTC both in the primaries and in the general

I got to like "burning sandals", but just did not think he could pull it off. I thought Hillary was the right candidate, with the right experience, and the right politics. I thought, and still insist, she would have made a great president. And just imagine: the first African American, highly educated, followed by the first female, highly educated! Wow! What would that say about the U.S.?

But having said that, I think we need to be inclusive. I don't like the thoughts of excluding like-minded liberals who voted green or stuck with Sanders. Instead of rejecting them, we meet to bring them into the fold.

[Sparkly]

327. I think the country is WAY too far gone for the ideal of coddling "like-minded liberals."

That is how we got George W. Bush, TWICE, which I thought would be the lowest point in U.S. History.

But now THIS!!

Sorry, it's not about your precious conscience, your grand ideals, or your perfect standards. I bet many of us here -- myself included -- are so far to the left of you, you wouldn't believe it. (No seriously. You probably wouldn't.)

But this is live-or-die time. This is with-us-or-against-us time. This is you vote with Democrats, or you're in the wilderness on your own, talking to squirrels.

We have TWO PARTIES in this country, so it's a very simple, binary choice.

Didn't vote for Clinton? Then you helped Trump. So much for your "like-minded liberalism."

[Progressive dog]

312. K&R

[liberal N proud]

313. I resemble that remark

And hold the BoB's responsible for the Butternut Bigot.

[LAS14]

315. This is NUTS!!! How can you expand the vote the next time???????????????????????????????????????????

[NurseJackie]

321. There's more to the real world than this forum.

Don't worry.

[Phentex]

395. They won't be reading DU for sure

in the same way that I don't watch Fox News

[Cadfael]

319. Kickety kick

And R!!!

Totally agree!

[Sparkly]

320. Whoa -- you mean this is DEMOCRATIC Underground?

I thought so a long time ago, but then must have lost my way...

Whew! Maybe that was all a bad dream!!!!

[plimsoll]

324. The question isn't "HRC GE voters" the question is ideologically blinded people.

OK, my post counts here are small. I don’t post very many places since 2005. I don’t like the troll culture, and it has used the “free speech” argument to pollute and degrade the society since at least 2003 (from a personal ethnology perspective can we stake them out in a field and wait for sunrise?) That said I’ve been reading here since 2002, it’s the first place I visit in the morning. If the people here are incensed I visit TPM and Crooks and Liars to see if they’re bent too. DU is my bellwether

I may not entirely like HRC, and actually I supported BS (unfortunate initials) in the primary, but in the general election you had a choice, and I’m sorry no matter how you sugarcoat it the choice was this. Do you vote for the status quo, flawed as it may be, or do you opt to let the apparent fascist win?

Not voting for the status quo with all its flaws was a tacit vote for the apparent fascist. I say apparent because at the time he was limiting himself to “fascist curious” behaviors. He never really came out against the fascists, but he didn’t say anything negative either. I’m seldom adopt Manichean positions on things, but this was a case that you either voted for HRC or you accepted a proto-fascist leader. There really isn’t much room to wiggle out here.

At our caucus, there was another Bernie supporter who said that she wouldn’t vote for HRC. I told here that in our state that might be a safe decision, but in general, for an essentially binary system like ours a non-HRC vote would be a vote for the opposition. She gave me a disgusted look and walked off. My 25-year-old son said, “That’s why we’ll lose.”

So, I don’t want to say you can’t come here, but I am going to ask “was it worth it?”

[johnp3907]

329. This isn't the protocol.

If you believe a post should be removed you're supposed to report it, not reply to it. All that does is kick it.

[Sparkly]

331. OMG!! Report Skinner to Skinner!!

Right fucking now!

[NurseJackie]

335. LOL! (Welcome to DU!)

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

328. Am I correct in assuming this does not apply to non-US citizens, or ex-cons, or others

who couldn't vote? As long as they do generally support Democrats ideologically, they are welcome here?

[Alice11111]

333. Well, I voted for her all of the way, even in 2008. However,

I think we should welcome converts. We NEED more votes on our side.

[philly_bob]

336. I am disappointed with this. /nt

[NurseJackie]

338. Why?

[philly_bob]

443. Because it limits the spread of DU ideas to only one group.

Elections are a game of numbers.

[shenmue]

337. Yes!!

[democratisphere]

339. HRC is the only legitimate candidate that won the Presidential election.

The current occupier is illegitimate.

[Grassy Knoll]

340. Thank You NurseJackie..

[NurseJackie]

350. I'm just the "messenger"... I didn't say it, I just spotted it and brought it here.

I suppose anyone could have done it, I just happened to be the first one.



PS: You're welcome!

[SteelSmasher]

343. My first vote

Hillary Clinton was the first presidential candidate I ever voted for

[Phentex]

421. It was exciting

in spite of the crappy outcome. She did bring people together.

[Starry Messenger]

344. Good. If you were too much of a holy roller to stop the Klan-endorsed candidate, what use are you?

Voting for the greatest good for the greatest number is a collective social responsibility.

[romanic]

347. I was wondering where all this in-fighting came from.

God it's like some of you live for e-drama and puritanism. Smh

[NurseJackie]

351. Infighting? I'm not seeing it. How do you mean?

[orleans]

353. best line ever:

Trump-enabling morons can find some other website.



and i'm glad to hear it!

[Phentex]

396. He shoud have put the link to Discussionist

[NurseJackie]

403. OMG! Yes! Perfect!

[southerncrone]

354. Voting for HRC in the general was a no brainer for most of us.

I can't imagine EVER voting for Drumph for anything!
Well, except maybe voting him out of our Universe...

[chwaliszewski]

368. I don't see how your callow sarcasm is helpful here.

I voted Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the GE and I'm not even a registered Democrat and yet I'm welcomed here with no problems. Of course, it helps to not be a disrespectful troublemaker which some people have been here.

[Butterflies]

359. sounds good to me!

I was more excited to support Hillary Clinton than any other candidate I have voted for in my life. I so admire her strength.

[NurseJackie]

361. You and me both!

[fescuerescue]

360. This is exactly what we need

This country & forum needs to come together like this.

makes me proud to be an American.

[sprinkleeninow]

367. Is this from 'Skinner' Skinner? Thee Skinner?

Okay then. I'm all in, and so is the mister!
👍🆗🆒💯%✔🇺🇸🗽

[TommyCelt]

402. As a seen-the-light progressive who was until 2012 registered Libertarian...

I wound up voting for Jill Stein in the general. I was a newly minted purity-only lefty, an attitude left over for supporting the Libertarians in the general since 2000. Always wanted to see 3rd parties make more of a splash.

Even though I reside in NY which HRC carried handily, voting for JS was a monumental mistake. It's not possible in our electoral system for minor parties to do anything more than disrupt presidential elections.

Did my vote make a difference in NY? No. But many people with that protest vote mindset in swing states DID.

MY previous mindset is why this dangerously unhinged individual is occupying the Oval Office.

I have since registered Democrat. And will support the Democratic Party - with my time, treasure, and my vote. I understand if I'm not welcome here any longer. But I'd like to be.

[electron_blue]

408. Hallelujah! I voted for HRC.

[Orsino]

409. Sorry, teens. Find another site. n/t

[Phentex]

419. ...

This made me laugh!

[obamanut2012]

420. He didn't correct his spelling of morans!

hahahhahahaha

[NurseJackie]

422. Ha!! :-D

[TrogL]

424. Errr I'm Canadian. I voted NDP.

Can't I stay?

[ucrdem]

426. A wise man once told me not to deconstruct the letter.

In other words, what it says is what it says. In the event, there were two letters, with conflicting news, first good and then bad, but I took the point.

[Heartstrings]

425. Midterms, midterms, midterms!

I will be pushing this hard throughout the next year and a half....I know I'm preaching to the choir.....the choir, however, is assembled and trying to figure out what song to sing. They've already sung all the songs they knew, time to move on to some new lyrics....

If we learned just one thing in 2016 it was that voter turnout was dismal at best! That needs to be addressed.

We need to focus, and leave the primaries and GE behind.

[mcar]

427. Couldn't be more clear

[vi5]

428. Don't the folks that run DU also run Discussionist?

Interesting the spectrum of thought and opinion and voting patterns that they are willing to provide forums for.

If they have nothing to do with Discussionist and I was mistaken then I apologize.

[crim son]

430. Benie supporter here, voted for Hillary of course

because I'm not a fool. However I think this pronouncement is shit. People make mistakes, people can be misled and be fools and not be conservative in any way.

My opinion. If it gets me booted, what the hell ever.

[drmeow]

432. Is there a time limit on this

Is someone voted for a third party candidate last year but is committed to voting for the Democrat no matter what in 2020, when will they be welcome again (if ever)?

[leftstreet]

433. I voted for Ross Perot. Can I still post here?

[sprinkleeninow]

438. Do you have compunction?

[leftstreet]

442. Well, technically my vote gave the US Clinton

[sprinkleeninow]

448. Perot was an aberration.

These 'contenders' have a so-called right to run for office if criteria is met.
But, persons that are registered as Democrats I feel are obliged and expected to vote accordingly. Of which I have been one since 1965.

[roamer65]

437. United we stand, divided we fall.

It's as simple as that, folks.

[Flaleftist]

439. While I don't give a shit about anyone who voted against Hillary,

there may be some people who have never voted before and weren't paying attention who are definitely awake now. Yes, they also share blame for this mess, but I don't think they should be dismissed like Trump supporters.

[Hortensis]

456. People who would vote for her today are welcome, of course.

You needn't worry about them anyway. Probably almost all have already learned to avoid letting people know who they voted for.

[Demsrule86]

482. They were Trump supporters anyway you look at it.

[ellie]

457. Love!

[NurseJackie]

458. Thank you!

[BootinUp]

469. I guess it's a little controversial?

Go figure.

[NurseJackie]

472. "Go figure" indeed! I know exactly what you mean...

... but I've definitely figured it out. Many of the Stein, Trump, Johnson voters (and the non-voting "protest" voters) are looking for a "back door" or some other hair-splitting technicality that will permit them to continue to post messages that smear and denigrate the Democratic Party and our Democratic leaders and candidates.

[Jamaal510]

474. K&R

[Demsrule86]

476. Thank you again Skinner.

[Ms. Toad]

477. Why not update your OP to include the full statement?

For those people who can't figure it out, the bottom line with regard to the 2016 General Election is this: If you were able to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 but you chose not to -- and you don't regret your terrible decision -- then we don't want you here.

[Gothmog]

479. Great thread

[NurseJackie]

480. It's interesting to see the reactions. I'll never fully understand...

... why it is that anyone would come to the defense of Sarandon types.

[Demsrule86]

483. I will never forgive the Greens, Saradon,Jill Stein (personally)...and Nina Turner for the role they

played in electing Trump...and I see no remorse from any of them.

[NurseJackie]

490. Neither will I. And you're correct, there is no remorse, because...

... it's exactly what they wanted to happen.

[Demsrule86]

491. They are smug and please with the outcome and continue to attack Democrats and the Party.

Fuck all of them. I don't usually hope for abject miserable failure on anyone... but it is what both Stein and Turner deserve.

[Wibly]

494. That's it

Alienate everyone who challenges you or questioned the choice of Clinton for Candidate.
See if that helps win the next election.

You need to win over votes, not alienate them.

Now call me a Trumpette and drum me out of here, but the fact is, I despise Trump, and I despise this whole US vs Them, either For Us or Against Us, Bushism that so many Dems seem to have adopted.

You either learn from your mistakes, or you don't. And clearly by the tone of the comment I'm responding to, some folks are missing the learn part.