Is Trump worse than Bush?

[oberliner]

The approval rating for Bush among Democrats at the end of his term was 6 percent.

The approval rating for Trump among Democrats right now is 8 percent.

I know that the horrors of the Trump administration are fresher and more immediate, but let us not forget those of the Bush administration.

The Iraq War - and all the lying that went with it - is still one of the greatest foreign policy debacles in modern history, one for which we are still paying a high price.

[FM123]

1. Yes!

[MineralMan]

2. Yes, and in spades.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. Which 8% of Dems approve of him?

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. It's clear that some people pretending to be Dems approve of him

[oberliner]

26. That is a great point

I've seen several interviews on tv of people who claim the be Democrats speaking positively about Trump. It is bizarre.

[oberliner]

19. Great question

Here's the poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

Scroll down and you can see the approval rating from Democrats has been steady at 7-8 for the past few weeks.

[defacto7]

86. Margin of error? I don't see one off hand.

I'd imagine it's more than + or - 2 %. I don't know. When it gets that low it's statistically volatile.

[oberliner]

141. Margin of error is 3 percentage points

For what that is worth.

[defacto7]

142. That's a pretty large margin.

It means anywhere from 3 to 11% support. May as well say 0 to 99%. What it really means is that we don't know how many Dems support him especially when the total is so low. If the numbers were above 30% the margin means less. In the single digits the margin needs to be way down like 1% to make statistical sense. That's one way rw polls can make some vague point when the numbers are pretty meaningless.

[stevenleser]

88. Probably the JPR "Democrats" who voted for him. nt

[radius777]

146. Bingo, the alt-left. Also Dixiecrat types. /nt

[madokie]

167. Those reagan dems of course

remember those?

I do and I about barf every time I do

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. What was Bush's approval rating among Democrats in August 2001?

Let's not forget that we're still equal to the *pre-9/11* Bush presidency.

Trump's been in office for a bit more than seven months.

[femmocrat]

6. He's so awful, he (almost) makes me pine for the bush years!

I'm sure Dubya is grateful! LOL

[LovingA2andMI]

7. Yes!

Next...

[NotASurfer]

8. Worse

Combine W, Coolidge, Harding, Andrew Johnson, an alternate universe where Nixon had a heart attack & left us with Agnew, and throw in King George for good measure. Still bottom of the list

[Bettie]

9. W was bad, terrible, awful

and yet, I did believe that he did not want to destroy the foundation of our country.

I do not believe he's a racist.

He's kind of dimwitted and surrounded himself with horrible people. He was a terrible president, but this Orange guy? He's eager to destroy it all just to stoke his own pathetic ego.

So, yeah, Bush was better.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Bush was a classic old money, muscular foreign policy Republican. Trump is fascist trash

Trump's racism is off the scales in contemporary politics. He's a white supremacist and a fascist.

It will take the full strength of American institutions for the Constitution and much of the population to survive Trumpism.

[oberliner]

28. Bush forced a war that led to the killing over a million brown skinned people

Mostly civilians.

[Bradshaw3]

100. Do you have a link for that claim?

[stopwastingmymoney]

106. See post 22, nt

[Adrahil]

64. I endorse this.

Bush was an idiot frat boy easily manipulated. Trump is fucking evil.

[Zambero]

71. Bad intelligence and gross miscalculation

Adding in the post 9-11 mindset, these things aided and abetted Bush's decisions to launch two interminable wars in the Middle East. Still, I don't see him as evil to the core and reprehensible as Trump, who not only exceeds 43's incompetence but is mentally deranged as well.

[oberliner]

73. There were DU posts calling Bush mentally deranged

For what that is worth.

[JimGinPA]

10. Is Lung Cancer Better Than Liver Cancer?

While W was a different sort of terrible, he was certainly terrible. His administration's lies were responsible for 1000's of deaths & nearly bankrupted the country. No nostalgia here...

[dembotoz]

74. sums it up nicely

[MrsCoffee]

156. Trump is like stage IV pancreatic cancer.

Some cancers are manageable with possible remissions.

Some are pretty much a death sentence.

[milestogo]

11. Every now and then I hear people from the Bush administration being interviewed

and some of them are decent, thoughtful people. Trump basically surrounds himself with spineless sycophants. So as awful as Bush was, he still respected the constitution. He was pretty stupid and easily controlled by the forces around him, but I don't think he was as evil and hateful as Trump.

[Different Drummer]

13. Bush may have been bad, but I don't believe for one moment that he was evil incarnate.

I can't say the same about Trump.

[Pope George Ringo II]

14. I truly don't think Bush is the right comparison.

Buchanan is the yardstick for a President as bad as Trump. And while I'm not yet ready to say that Trump is worse than Buchanan, I'm afraid there's a good chance that if you check back with me in 2021 I'll say he was.

[obamanut2012]

15. yes, completely

[leftstreet]

16. We knew what motivated the Bush War for Oil Cabal

Trump's impulsiveness and seemingly pathological need to provoke is new territory

Worse, I suspect he hasn't even gotten started

[dalton99a]

17. Cheney was behind Bush's crimes. As a person, Bush was a lazy dolt and ranked low on the crazy scale

Trump is orders of magnitude worse

[oberliner]

27. Bush believed that God wanted him to invade Iraq

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

[dalton99a]

42. Well, there was also that Project for a New American Century

founded by the Halliburton CEO and his neocon friends. They had been trying to get rid of Saddam even before Bush announced his candidacy. And then, who did he pick for VP ....

[RhodeIslandOne]

138. Trump thinks he IS God. n/m

[LSparkle]

78. Agree ...

W "outsourced" his presidency to Darth Cheney because he had no interest in governing. He just wanted to show his Daddy (and certainly Mommy!) that he could win. That doesn't entirely absolve him of the evil done by Cheney but I truly believe he was just a willing vehicle for his family (especially that Womb Of Mass Destruction Barbara Bush) and not necessarily evil in his own right.

If only Jebbie had won the Florida governor's election as The Family had expected, U.S. would have been much better off. I don't like Jeb but I don't think he would have been so reliant on an evil bastard like ChChChChChCheeney ...

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

18. "Is Trump worse than Bush?"

Yes. By unimaginable magnitudes.

[oberliner]

22. How many hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq?

So we have, at present, between 800,000 and 1.3 million “excess deaths” in this war as we approach its six-year anniversary.

This gruesome figure tracks closely to what we know from other wars, in which the number of deaths compared with the number of displaced typically hovered around 1-to-5 or less. It also makes sense when reading of claims by current Iraqi officials that there are between one and two million war widows in Iraq (reaching back to previous conflicts), and 5 million orphans.

This constitutes direct empirical evidence of total excess mortality and indirect, though confirming evidence of the displaced, the bereaved, and general insecurity in the country. These are the results of the war that we know. And the overall figures are stunning: 4.5 million displaced, 1-2 million widows, 5 million orphans, about one million dead—in one way or another, affecting nearly one in every two people in Iraq with tragically life-altering (or ending) impacts.

http://web.mit.edu/humancostiraq/HOW%20MANY%20DIED,%20BUSH.html

[Snackshack]

47. / this.

Trump is a despicable person and may become the worst president we have had to date but (for now) he is not responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of humans.

Bush still holds the title.

[radius777]

148. Trump is a fascist, a racialist ideology responsible for genocide

and over 60 million dead (WWII), and the alt-right would love nothign more than to duplicate such results.

Bush and the neocons led us into war under false pretenses, which bled (and continues to bleed) the country dry, and led to the death of many.

however, it wasn't done for sadistic or racialist reasons (even if many non-whites died as a result) but for the desire of the neocons to create another western nation (in addition to Israel) in the middle east, which would then be useful for diplomatic and economic reasons.

Bush himself was a decent guy (but easily led, i.e. by Cheney/Rumsfeld), and even passed the Medicare prescription drug benefit - that even Dems applauded.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

50. No argument there, however

I'm looking at what I see as a bigger picture. The damage drumpfs already done to us both domestically and globally. The potential of the collapse of society, if not an outright civil war is, I believe inevitable and relatively soon. The Russia thing, the pardon, the money laundering. The nuclear threats over North Korea and Iran. Shamelessly and blatantly enabling and encouraging white supremacy, just to list a few.

We weren't the worldwide laughing stock under boy george that we seem to be now. The chimp was lazy and doltish and an obvious puppet. drumpf is evil incarnate in addition to being a lunatic and an idiot.

By those measures I have to still say drumpf is or can and probably will be magnitudes worse than bush.

I respect your opinion. This is mine.

[oberliner]

54. Understood

I respect your argument and certainly take your points.

[tomp]

90. is this ranking necessary or helpful?

trump may be the one who leads us over the edge, but that does not excuse those who got us where we are.

the focus on trump as the source of all evil diverts us from the true and fundamental source of our problems...capitalism/corporatism/imperialism.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

93. "is this ranking necessary or helpful?"

Who knows? I don't. It was a simple question asked by the OP to which I offered my opinion. From scanning the other replies, I seem to be in a majority, in that opinion. Maybe some of those others can address your concerns more aptly.

[tomp]

165. sorry for the late response.

I accidentally responded to your post when I meant to respond to the OP. Sorry for the confusion.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

166. I've done that too many

Times to count... No worries.

[Bradshaw3]

102. No

[tymorial]

20. Please.

The comparison is ridiculous. Trump has been in office for 7 months and has offended all of our allies, makes no apologies for his racist ideology, spends all day on Twitter making juvenile remarks, a gross majority of the country hates him and is embarrassed that he is president. Bush on his worst day is superior to Trump.

Edit:. I mean no offense. Trump is just so horrible that no comparison to any previous president is possible.

[oberliner]

24. Were you alive during the Iraq War?

Do you remember the lies and the carnage?

[tymorial]

25. I am 40. I stand by my statement nt

[Zambero]

58. Trump will have ample time to outdo Bush 43

Hopefully he falls short. at any rate, in the span of 8 months, He has saber rattled with North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and beyond with Syria. In terms of dangerous and divisive rhetoric, Trump has no equal. In terms of racial, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, and religious motivated policies, the evil he has perpetrated surpasses that of any who preceded him.

[oberliner]

61. Bush was a lot more religiously motivated

He was a born again Christian who believed that God literally spoke to him and he made policy decisions accordingly.

[Zambero]

72. Very true and scary as well

Unlike Trump, he did not initiate an unconstitutional blanket travel ban based on one's religious affiliation. Bush was badly misguided, while Trump's "guidance" has malevolent and evil intent as its primary basis. That's about as highly as I will ever speak of 43, but with Trump in the White House it is not as difficult as I would have thought.

[bellmartin]

125. But he at least didn't believe he himself was God

[pnwmom]

118. I was a mature adult during the Iraq war and I came of age in the Vietnam war.

Trump brings a whole new kind of evil to the stage. Evil like we haven't seen since Hitler. It isn't hyperbole to make that connection.

[Bradshaw3]

104. You are correct sir.

The comparison is ridiculous.

[Bradical79]

21. Sort of

I think he is a much less capable president, more corrupt, and less capable of empathy. At this point I think he is worse. Hopefully he can be removed before he does something to eclipse Bush's body count. We'll see what happens with this hurricane.

[smirkymonkey]

23. Absolutely yes!

No question.

[Lotusflower70]

29. Hell to the yes

Saying that doesn't make less of the things Bush did. But Trump is on pace to destroy Democracy as we know it. He is being aided by his party. The Arpaio pardon is a prime example of him flouting the law and the investigation process. His ethics violations and conflicts of interests are at a whole other level. The corruption and greed is rampant. His response to the election hacking shows his lack of regard for our voting process. He is stomping on the press, the intelligence community and the majority of Americans. The fact that border patrol is open during the hurricane and people are scared to leave because of Trump. People are going to die because of fear. His response to the people in the hurricane. His response to Charlottesville. The insane rallies for next election. The excessive spending depleting Secret Service. I would say he is worse than Bush. I would say he is the worst in my lifetime.

[oberliner]

32. There is no doubt that Trump is staggeringly awful

But Bush lying us into a war that led to massive numbers of casualties and created instability and exacerbated terrorism is off the charts.

[Lotusflower70]

39. Bush sucked

Trump has and will have blood on his hands. He has emboldened hate groups. He is continuing and threatening war to boost ratings. There is no strategy or plan for the country, he is all about himself. Trump is leading to instability, division and death.

[NRaleighLiberal]

30. Yes. N/T

[50 Shades Of Blue]

31. Didn't think anyone could be - but IMO, yes!

Both lying, incompetent, hypocritical, shitty, criminal presidents using the office of the president to pander to their vile supporters for the most venal, cynical reasons. I don't think Trump is all there mentally, and I don't think Bush was either.

But I give Trump the "worse" edge when I look at his vile children. From what I've read about them the Bush twins turned out pretty decent.

[oberliner]

34. There are a lot of similarities between the two

I agree with your general assessment, but, to me, the Iraq War sets Bush apart.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

44. The Iraq war is a very high hurdle for sure

[democratisphere]

33. Let's put this in perspective.

drumpf and drumpf alone is the Sixth Mass Extinction of this planet.

[SonofDonald]

35. It's obvious 45 is the worst

When even darth cheney said 45 is a pos you know he's worse than the shrub.

[oberliner]

37. Cheney was behind the lies that led us into the Iraq War

A war that Bush claimed was sanctioned by God.

[SonofDonald]

49. Yes I remember.

I'm not saying Cheney was anything better than a dog turd, just that even that evil bastard put. 45 down.

I keep waiting for cheneys next heart attack, I will celebrate.

[Hoyt]

36. We made it past bush somehow, not so sure about trump. And Obama cleaned up a lot

of bush's mess.

[oberliner]

40. There are a million dead Iraqis who didn't make it past Bush

Not to mention several thousand Americans.

[Hoyt]

46. Yeah, I started to mention Iraq. But Trump is a bigger problem today than bush is today.

In fact I usually call him "george war bush," and I have not capitalized his name -- even in formal documents -- since he invaded Iraq.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Worse and here's why

As bad as squatter Bush was, as evil as President Cheney was, that administration still followed norms and traditions of government and the nation.

Trump has no appreciation for any of that and ignores history. He has disdain for the citizens. Hey s, in my view, anti American.

[oberliner]

56. Fair points

I would argue, however, that the Iraq War gives the Bush administration the edge in awfulness (though there is certainly plenty of time for Trump to top it).

[dalton99a]

57. Bush never tried to kill millions of Americans by taking away their healthcare

In fact Bush signed Medicare Part D

And Bush never pardoned Libby - he only commuted his sentence and made him pay a $250,000 fine.

Trump doesn't even try to act like an American president.

[steve2470]

62. good points

It's a sad day when we have to point out the decent things about Bush.

[dalton99a]

69. No kidding.

[oberliner]

68. Have you seen Sicko?

Health care under Bush was a nightmare.

[dalton99a]

79. Yes

And our healthcare system is still a disgrace compared to other advanced countries. But what Trump tried/is trying to do is sheer brutality and sadism - against fellow Americans, many of whom voted for him.

[greatauntoftriplets]

41. Yes.

[peggysue2]

43. Yes!

Without hesitation, yes.

[steve2470]

45. Bush was really bad but Trump is worse

Bush at least was minimally competent in staffing the government and doing things by usual procedure (mostly). The Iraq War was the exception to that rule, with Cheney harassing the CIA for any scrap of information that could be twisted in favor of the decision to invade.

I never worried for a nanosecond about Bush hitting the nuke button. I vehemently disagreed with Iraq, but Bush was sane if not devious. Trump's sanity I have doubts about. It's not just me who has worries about nukes and Trump. Even Clapper does.

[oberliner]

53. George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

That kind of thing doesn't seem all that sane to me.

[steve2470]

60. I think he lied about that, frankly

Highly religious people (which Bush seems to be) will say this kind of shit, when they really mean THEY...want something and their own thoughts are "God". So Bush either lied or did the standard super-religious thing and just interpreted his own thoughts and impulses to be "God".

Besides that one anecdote, Bush was sane. I get it, the Iraq War trumps everything for you. We disagree. Give Trump enough time and he will equal or exceed that body count. Have a great day, sincerely.

[oberliner]

65. You may be right

I definitely do see your points. Let's hope Trump is not permitted to take any action that will exceed the body count from Bush's war in Iraq.

[workinclasszero]

48. Who the hell are the 8% 'democrats' that approve of Orange Hitler????

I mean what.the.actual.*uck!?

Trump is hands down the worst president in the history of this country by a long shot.

Not only that he is a criminal, a Russian spy and a nazi racist kkk pig!

[Motley13]

51. there is NO ONE worse than LOSER 45

Bush was not treasonous or racist or a lecher

[bluepen]

52. Yes, Trump is worse. Not even a close call.

There's zero evidence Bush was owned and controlled by a hostile foreign power, so there was no chance our foundational institutions were at risk.

Can't say the same for Trump.

Trump is vastly worse, a clear and present threat to the existence of the republic.

[oberliner]

59. What about the Iraq War?

And the lies we were told by the Bush administration that led to so many deaths?

[bluepen]

63. I saw the other 30 times you posted this.

Still doesn't come close to threatening the existence of the United States. Trump does. Trump "wins" this contest.

[oberliner]

66. OK

Not always sure if folks read upthread to see other comments so that was why I wanted to ask you about it directly.

I appreciate your response

[SharonClark]

77. Only "30"? Seemed like more.

[oberliner]

81. Well, if you want to be literal - it was only 6

But who's counting!

[liquid diamond]

109. Give it a rest will you.

Iraq! Iraq! Iraq! We get your point. Trump is still worse than bush.

[oberliner]

113. He is a war criminal

He backed torture. Established Guantanamo bay.

[liquid diamond]

123. Let it go.

Bush is comfortably sitting on a couch at his ranch and enjoying a bottle of bourbon.

But by all means stress out and give yourself a heart attack over something you can't change.

[oberliner]

132. It's just a discussion forum

I think it's an interesting discussion. Not a source of stress.

[potone]

128. The problem is that you are comparing the two...

based on Bush's entire presidency, not just the first seven months. At this point in his presidency, he hadn't done anything remotely as bad as Trump has already done. Everything went to hell after the attacks on 9/11/01. So in terms of loss of life, Bush wins hands down, but there is no telling what Trump will do; he seems to think that we can use our nuclear weapons without catastrophic results to our country. That alone makes him the most dangerous president we have ever had.

I am increasingly afraid–no, terrified–of what will happen before the 2018 elections. Even if we win back the House, unlikely as that is, I don't see how we can continue going on this way until January 2019, do you?

[oberliner]

131. That's a fair point

Hopefully we won't have 7 more years of Trump to make the full comparison.

I agree that something has got to give - just don't know what.

[RhodeIslandOne]

140. And Trump when all is said and done may be a traitor

One who sold his soul to a foreign nation to help him win high office and sell us down the river.

[Initech]

55. He's the worst president of all time!

Unless the republicans nominate someone scarier - and it would be impossible to top Trump at the moment.

[dalton99a]

67. At this point there is not much difference between Charles Manson and Donald Trump

except for prior work experience

[louis-t]

70. Yes. He's dumber than bush and lazier than bush.

Ultimately more dangerous.

[walkingman]

75. Trump is a nasty, ignorant, dumbass but

so far he is just a disgusting human being. Bush changed the world and not in a good way during his administration. Trump definitely has the potential to be much worse but so far just a moron in the WH. with like minded Congress varmints running the country.

If I were a young person I would seriously consider immigrating out of the US.

[reflection]

76. By an order of magnitude already, in my opinion. n/t

[Voltaire2]

80. technically not yet, but give him time.

Better yet, don't give time.

[JDC]

82. Waaaay worse

[LyndaG]

83. Hmmm

After 9.11, when GWB became hugely popular, that was tough to take. He and Cheney took advantage of that and did a lot of harm. If Trump ever became that popular, no telling what might occur. Hate to imagine.

[GoCubsGo]

84. Six of one, a half dozen of the other.

One is an unintelligent, dishonest puppet of the Saudis and a war criminal, who put his billionaire buddies' needs over those of his country. The other is an unintelligent, lying puppet of the Russians, and an all-around criminal, who put his and his billionaire buddies' needs over those of his country.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

85. The difference between shit and dog shit, a choice that no civilized person would even ponder.

[jcmaine72]

87. Dumbya was the clown shoes prince of presidents.

But Trump is the evil glint one often sees in the clown's eyes when he's handing out balloons to kids. The glint that says "if your mommy and daddy wasn't watching me right now, I'd grab your little pee-pee and squeeze hard".

[jrthin]

89. Yes!!!!! nt

[Generic Other]

91. We are judging two different qualities of their presidencies

1. Bush caused more death ultimately (but Trump is only one year in).

2. Trump seems the more reprehensible human being.

We probably can't make a full comparison until Trump is out of the WH. This day can't come too soon. Impeach the lowlife.

[oberliner]

114. Good points

I agree that it is hard to make a comparison since one is only in the first year and one had two full terms.

Hopefully Trump will be stopped before he can do more damage.

Sadly, Bush wasn't.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. Trump is exponentially worse because he is trying to foment a civil war.

[ucrdem]

94. If he hands us a 9/11, yes. Until then, it's not even close. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. Trump has done more damage to the social fabric than 9-11. 9-11 brought us together.

I wouldn't piss down a Deplorable's throat if his or heart was on fire and I hate them and Trump for making me feel that way.

[ucrdem]

96. Yes it worked out rather well for shrub, I'll give you that. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. Trump is pushing us toward a small c civil war.

[oberliner]

115. Boy do I hope you are wrong about this

Scary thought.

[ucrdem]

161. Trumps culture war is obnoxious but the statues are coming down.

They're being pulled down by mayors and city councils, not federal authorities, and towns that want to keep them or obtain them do. There's no real casus belli beyond the symbolic wedge issues the GOP maintains for campaign purposes. And a shooting war would be bad for the hospitality business. I don't see any possibility whatsoevery.

[DanTex]

97. Fair question, but Trump has only been there for 7 months.

If we're doing a time-for-time comparison, I would say it's pretty clear that Trump is a lot worse so far, compared to W's first 7 months. For all the obvious reasons.

However, the Iraq War, like you said, was truly horrible. In so many ways, and yes we are still paying a high price. In fact, Trump could arguably be included as part of the price. So if Trump "only" keeps up his current pace of horribleness, and doesn't get any worse, then I think the logical answer to your question is that Bush was worse, because of the Iraq War.

I say this even though I think Trump is a much more vile human than Bush was. But Bush really did a lot of damage.

[liquid diamond]

98. No shit trump is worse.

[redstatebluegirl]

101. A thousand times yes.

[Miles Archer]

105. Hell yes...

...and if he remains in office, I predict he'll top Bush & Cheney at their worst, including Iraq.

[D_Master81]

107. Personally yes

For me looking back, I disagreed with much of what Bush did, but now I dont hate him and seems like a likeable enough guy outside of politics. I cant picture me viewing Trump again and saying "he's not so bad". I think there's a part of Trump that gets off on pissing off Dems. Bush was following an ideology that we all disagree with, but I believe he acted out of a personal belief system. Trump I have no idea what he believes, it kinda depends on what day of the week it is and what direction the wind is blowing. Plus I think he acts in ways to feed an ego, not to govern a country.

[xor]

108. The only thing Trump has over Bush is that Trump hasn't invaded a country like Iraq yet.

There is also the view that Trump's failures may be keeping the GOP from doing the same amount of harm they would if they had a more traditional person in office.

But that being said, I think Bush is a better person than Trump by a million miles. Bush may have been dumb in some ways, but nothing compared to the complete ignorance, lack of self-awareness, and evilness that Trump has displayed. The fact Trump has liberals thinking Bush isn't all that bad in comparison goes to show just how awful of a "human" Trump is. At least Bush had some qualities that people could appreciate even if they disagreed with him politically.

[kacekwl]

110. Is shit worse than diarrhoea ?

I don't want to deal with either one.

[ElementaryPenguin]

111. Incredibly...YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which I had not thought possible!!

[oppressedproletarian]

112. Need you ask? Surely not!

The joke on election night was that George Bush was now the happiest man in America because he was no longer the worst prez we have ever had!

[ProfessorGAC]

116. A Simple Case of Bad And Worse

Silverspoon and his thugs were bad. No doubt, no questions, no debate
This is worse

[pnwmom]

117. Bush was an ordinary bad President. Trump is on another planet.

Bush didn't align himself with our chief political adversary and he wasn't aiming to collapse our whole democratic system.

[JI7]

119. Yes Trump is far worse than Bush. The iraq war was a policy faiilure

And afghanistan has been also which most supported.

But he didn't go in with intent to steal their resources as trump wants to do. And he didn't demonize and prevent brown people from coming to the US.

[oberliner]

121. America invaded Iraq because the Bush administration wanted a war

To quote Paul Krugman:

The Iraq war wasn’t an innocent mistake, a venture undertaken on the basis of intelligence that turned out to be wrong. America invaded Iraq because the Bush administration wanted a war. The public justifications for the invasion were nothing but pretexts, and falsified pretexts at that.

[JI7]

122. Yeah they believed all the crap about freedom and welcoming with flowers

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

120. Absolutely

[LAS14]

124. Bush espoused bad policies. Trump betrays human decency. nt

[oberliner]

130. Bush did a lot more than just espouse bad policies

I really feel he was a spectacularly awful president.

[LAS14]

162. Yeah, but Trump is a spectacularly awful human being as well. So he wins.

[ucrdem]

126. CIA torture sites? Abu Ghraib? Falujah? Extraordinary renditions? Guantanamo? Jose Padilla?

Doesn't anyone remember any of that? Trump is a racist jerk but Bush was a psychopathic racist jerk who indulged in unspeakable crimes against US citizens and "terrists" alike.

Not even close. Not by miles and miles.

[oberliner]

129. Some folks seem to have amnesia with respect to Bush

Or so it seems.

[ucrdem]

135. Kerry and Clinton were ripped to shreds over their Iraq war VOTES.

But the guy who foisted the whole damn lie on us gets a pass???? What am I missing?

[bellmartin]

127. BIGLY worse... I didn't think it would be possible, but it's already not even close

...and if he's not removed, I think it's very likely the Iraq War issue will be swamped by a much more catastrophic and unnecessary war.

[PragmaticLiberal]

133. Yes, he is.

This probably won't be popular on DU but I always thought Bush, rather than being "evil", just wasn't very bright.

He seemed like a dude you'd probably love as your neighbor but didn't have the intellect to be president.

Easily manipulated imo.

Trump otoh.......yikes

[shenmue]

134. Yes

[oberliner]

136. Do you remember the Bush Scorecard of Evil?

It was pretty extensive:

http://jesseberney.com/scorecard_print.html

And that was only up to 2003.

[RhodeIslandOne]

137. Yes

[Turbineguy]

139. I really miss Dubya

He seemed like such a dangerous president at the time but has dissolved into a relatively harmless buffoon.

All things are relative.

[CanonRay]

143. Yes. Exponentially.

Bush was dumb as dog shit but has a heart. Trump is pure evil.

[cemaphonic]

144. Trump is a much worse person, and alarmingly corrosive to the social fabric and our institutions.

Bush at least paid lip service to the idea that he was the President of every American, and didn't stoke racial resentments, or make "What will make liberals mad?" a major factor in his decisions.

However, Bush, and the people around him were fairly politically adept, and skilled at working the lever of power, and as a result, were able to get a lot of terrible stuff accomplished. Trump is dumb, lazy (which despite his reputation, Bush was neither) and surrounded by
a constantly churning cloud of sycophants. He has been amazingly ineffectual so far, and increasingly sidelined and disrespected by the other power centers in our government. and I see no signs of that changing anytime soon. If we can survive the nuclear sabre rattling and increased racial tensions, Trump will leave very little of lasting impact, or that cannot be corrected by a later POTUS.

That being said, I'm pretty concerned about how completely Trump was unprepared to make executive appointments (you know, his actual job), and the terrible quality of those he has appointed. The federal bureaucracy is a huge beast filled with intelligent and dedicated professionals, and can carry itself of its own inertia for some time. But a leadership vacuum like this that lasts an entire term will cause us no end of problems down the road.

[Liberty Belle]

145. Bush was inept and maybe corrupt. Trump is evil, inept, racist and corrupt.

Bush was terrible but Trump is far darker and dangerous not only during the term of his presidency, but threatening our very democracy and future generations' lives.

Bush's worst actions and inactions:

He ignored security briefings warning that Bin Ladin was determined to strike buildings in U.S. with planes -- just before the 911 terror attacks. Ineptitude, most likely.

He ignored warnings about the need to shore up levees in New Orleans -- just before Katrina, and then his administration showed more ineptitude so many drowned who could have been saved after the hurricane. Ineptitude again.

He started the Iraq War based on lies, claiming there were weapons of mass destruction when documents later proved that there weren't and he knew this. Here, he wanted to prove he was more macho than his father, who won the first Gulf War in 3 days by driving Iraqi troops away from the Kuwaiti border but had enough sense not to send our troops into Iraq. Bush was also an oilman with Cheney, the evil VP, egging him on so profit was also a likely motive.

That said, he never appeared to be racist, at least tried to be a "uniter not a divider" even after 911, actually sounding presidential at times. He was not misogynistic toward women. He was a C- student at Yale, not bright, and a party boy. He did not however try to dismantle the government, roll back civil rights or overtly destroy public education.

He has at times shown flashes of humanity, such as after his presidency, when his passion has become taking up painting portraits of soldiers injured in the Iraq War, a sort of penance it appears. He managed to show some dignity in meetings with world leaders, and wasn't a total disgrace on the international stage compared to Trump.

Bush at least showed respect for separation of powers, while Trump has insulted judges who rule against him and pardoned Sheriff Arpaio who abused his authority with racial profiling and was also found guilty of contempt of court.

Trump has no conscience, no decency, is a racist and closet Nazi, who has boasted of groping women and who is purposefully destroying our treasured American institutions and our standing in the world with actions such as pulling out of the climate accord and insulting world leaders. Even Bush has denounced Trump.

[oberliner]

150. Bush declared "Marriage Protection Week"

Defining marriage as "a union between a man and a woman".

He disclosed an undercover CIA agent's identity in retribution against her husband (Remember Valerie Plame?)

He tried to cover up global warming and refused to implement the Kyoto protocol.

He tried to expand the Patriot Act, further restricting basic civil liberties.

He cut funding to organizations that provided abortions (global gag rule).

He awarded no-bid contracts to Halliburton.

And this was all in his first term (and excludes the lying about weapons of mass destruction/faking evidence to justify war and blowing the surplus on tax cuts for the rich).

[JI7]

151. and Trump is still worse

[Kaleva]

147. Trump is on track to be the worst president in our nation's history.

According to FiveThirtyEight's approval tracker, after 216 days in office, Bush's approval rating was 53%. Trump's is at 37%.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/7-rules-for-reading-trumps-approval-rating/

[tonedevil]

149. For 8 years...

VP Cheney through his Lap Dog of Evil, President Bus, did his worst and could ultimately only be two point more disapproved than donald has been able to achieve in 8 months. Stuby fingered vulgarian, donald, is just getting started you are measuring them at different points not really legitimate.

[MFM008]

152. Bush was a dummy

A dry drunk and a goof but
Maggot is just souless black hole of festering evil.
You know...like Cheney. ..

[pansypoo53219]

153. isis & destruction of ancient stuff. w still wins.

[DeminPennswoods]

154. Worse than Bush 43, yes. Worse than Cheney?

No, at least not yet. Cheney was a superb bureaucratic. He knew how things worked and used this to produce most, if not all, of the awful, evil things done during Bush's administration. A true war criminal.

[Spider Jerusalem]

155. Yes, Trump is worse. Worse than Bush. Worse than Nixon. Worse than Grant, and maybe Harding.

Possibly not quite as bad as James Buchanan.

Trump's remarks about "fine people on both sides", equivocation, and refusal to call out neo-Nazi white supremacy after what happened in Charlottesville? That drew condemnation, rebuke, and comment from the Joint Chiefs of Staff (who went on Twitter to say 'no place for bigotry, racism and hatred'); from the governments of the USA's closest allies (the prime minister of the UK, the chancellor of Germany, government ministers in Israel), and from the UN. That's something unprecedented. I can't remember the generals and admirals in charge of the USA's armed services, the USA's closest allies, and the UN jointly condemning anything an American president has said, like that. Trump's actions represent a complete abdication of the moral authority of the office of the President, and by extension of the United States. Bush, for all his faults (which were many), never came close to that.

[MyNameGoesHere]

157. Why do we do this?

Every republican has been a blight on America since Nixon. There is no degree of worse. If we do that we normalize the bastard before them. All of them deserve nothing, no praise no degree of being better. They are evil and they should be included in conversation as we would Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, any leader of North Korea, the devil, cancer, or any dark evil thing one can imagine.

[oberliner]

159. That is a bit extreme

You really think every Republican POTUS is comparable to Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and any leader of North Korea?

[MyNameGoesHere]

160. Yes

They all had the same goals. Consolidate power by any means. No difference at all. Making them anything less is extreme as it enables the next one to go even further.

[Vinca]

158. Absolutely. Dubya, for all his dimwittedness, had a smidgeon of compassion.

Sure, he is responsible for an obscene number of deaths in Iraq, but Trump has the potential to end life on earth. It seems he's trying to outdo 43 by his lack of FEMA response in Texas. I haven't heard a thing about FEMA down there, have any of you? I expect to see Trump tweet "Nice to see families together" as they wade through chest high water.

[louis c]

163. Are you fucking kidding me with that question?

Donald Trump is the worst human being ever elected to any public office in my lifetime (born 1952), at any level.

Elected is the key word here.

[Gothmog]

164. Yes

Bush was an okay governor