If you voted for Jill Stein.... look closely at this picture

[scheming daemons]

You were played.


She was compromised.




And if you read "The Nation"... cancel your subscription. I did, after subscribing for 20 years. Why?

Katrina vanden Heuvel and her husband, Stephen F. Cohen, are in bed with Putin also.


Putin is playing both sides in this country... the far right *AND* the far left.

[msongs]

1. proves nothing. obama dined with putin as well and probably michelle too.

this does nothing for the case you wish to make

[elleng]

5. Right.

Thanks.

[Angry Dragon]

6. LOL

[pnwmom]

8. Obama and Michelle weren't paid by Russia to give a speech in honor of RT.

Stein and Flynn were well paid guests (she denies it but I don't believe her.)

In any case, she's still Putin's mouthpiece:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/jill-stein-is-starting-to-sound-a-lot-like-donald-trump

Stein also expressed skepticism toward the United States intelligence community’s conclusion that the Kremlin meddled in the 2016 election. “Most people are saying, ‘Oh it’s the Russians,’ but there is not a lot of evidence,” she said.

And in terms of whether she blames herself for Trump’s victory, Stein argues that neither candidate was a good choice. “There are differences between Clinton and Trump, no doubt, but they’re not different enough to save your life, to save your job, to save the planet,” she says. “We deserve more than two lethal choices.”

________________________________

The Senate Judiciary Committee appears to be curious:

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-jr-jill-stein-putin-russia-senate-639422

There are 41 names included in the document requests sent to Donald Trump Jr.’s lawyer, Alan Futerfas, and Paul Manafort’s lawyer, Reginald Brown, by the Senate Judiciary Committee. The requests include communications involving many individuals known to be ensnared in the Russia investigation, from President Donald Trump's former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

But while this roster of characters would have made for a fine John Le Carré novel, one name included therein immediately attracted online speculation: that of former Green Party presidential candidate Dr. Jill Stein.

What, exactly, Stein has to do with Trump Jr.’s meeting last summer with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya is unclear, as the Senate Judiciary Committee provided no context for its demands, which are to be honored by August 2. A request for an explanation to Stein’s former campaign manager remains unanswered at this time. And though she is active on Twitter, Stein has made no acknowledgement on that social media network of her name’s appearance in the Trump Jr. inquest.

SNIP

The questions about Stein’s ties to Russia are not new. They stem from a single photograph of Stein’s trip to Moscow in 2015. The image shows her dining at a table with Putin and Michael Flynn, the disgraced Trump adviser at the heart of the Russia probe.

[Ninsianna]

17. State dinners and official functions are what government officials do.

Jill Stein had no standing to be at an official state function. This is a specious argument.

[Alice11111]

31. Absolutely!

[Lucinda]

32. +1

[NastyRiffraff]

58. You beat me to it!

Note to self: ALWAYS read the thread before posting!

It's true; there's a world of difference.

[Honeycombe8]

88. +1. nt

[BannonsLiver]

46. It does if one understands the difference

Between a state dinner between two world leaders and an RT gala.

[stonecutter357]

52. Seems Legit lol.

[George II]

53. If Obama "dined with putin" it would have been at a state dinner as President, not....

....as a private citizen to celebrate the 10th anniversary of state-owned RT. And I don't believe he dined with Putin anyway.

You can't compare the two.

[PubliusEnigma]

54. It proves that a private citizen had dinner with the Russian Dictator.

She's no Head of State. What is her excuse for being there?

And, oh look, is that Michael Flynn, too?? What a coincidence!

Jill Stein is no progressive. She is a hired character actor who played an immediate role in the theft of our election.
To defend her is to defend the result of her work.

[tenderfoot]

60. You would think world leaders dine with one another...

Jill Stein isn't a leader. She's a right wing troll.

[VOX]

66. False equivalency. And a "whataboutism" variant.

Others have explained it better, but Obama didn't dine/hang out with/send numerous staff to curry PERSONAL favor (and it appears, seek help in tipping an American general election).

There is NO equivalency with Obama here. None. That's is the kind of pro-45 argument one would find at Breitbart, for god's sake.

[Adrahil]

71. This was a dinner for the 10th Anniversary of RT.

Ya know, the Russian propaganda mouthpiece?

She's there with Mike Flynn. 'Nuff said.

[Honeycombe8]

87. In Russia? At a dinner table of Russians? With Flynn, employed by Russia? When he wasn't President?

You have to take a step back and look at NON-Presidents having dinner with hostile foreign leaders. Presidents have a REASON to have meetings and dinners with foreign leaders; they are sanctioned by our govt, concerning U S interests.

A dinner like this...this is very different.

[Tiggeroshii]

89. The picture doesn't mean so much as the fact she is now implicated in the Russian probe

[Grassy Knoll]

2. They Didn't Care Then, And Don't Now...

...Keeping Hillary Out Of Power Was The Goal, With
A Lot Of Help From The KGOP.

[BannonsLiver]

48. You see that in this thread

Desperate whataboutism trying to defend Putin and Stein.

[sheshe2]

3. ...."and the far left"

[Docreed2003]

9. Clearly...the far left

Enjoyed the filet, or, perhaps the fish entrée that evening....regargless there's nothing to see here...🌧Move along you sad hippies!

[TheDebbieDee]

4. Marking this post to read later...

[dalton99a]

7. Kick

[NNadir]

10. If "you" voted for Jill Stein you're an ass and you don't give a shit about the world.

That's clear. Why beat the dead horse. She's the exact and perfect equivalent of Trump and never has been anything else.

[shanny]

11. Haven't we got bigger

kettles of fish to fry than to fret over green boogie men?

[progressoid]

15. No, we need to keep flogging this dead horse.

[BainsBane]

28. The investigation is ongoing

And we have elections in 2018. You may not care if Russia interferes in them, but I sure as hell do.

[progressoid]

33. I care about Russian interference. I don't care about Jill Stein.

I know she's a popular target for blame around here, but her influence was pretty minor in comparison.

If you had to pick one thing that made the most difference in the election, what would it be? Jill Stein? The Russians? Comey? Crosscheck? Bernie?

I'd probably go with an enabling and complicit media.

Donald Trump succeeded in shaping the election agenda. Coverage of Trump overwhelmingly outperformed coverage of Clinton. Clinton’s coverage was focused on scandals, while Trump’s coverage focused on his core issues.



Attempts by the Clinton campaign to define her campaign on competence, experience, and policy positions were drowned out by coverage of alleged improprieties associated with the Clinton Foundation and emails. Coverage of Trump associated with immigration, jobs, and trade was greater than that on his personal scandals.



...https://cyber.harvard.edu/publications/2017/08/mediacloud

[KY_EnviroGuy]

38. Agreed.

Condensing it all down, one might say hundreds of lies and xenophobia won the election. The average American brain is super-saturated with bullshit, and therefore only wants to be entertained. Our media systems (social and public) satisfy that need and they are huge money making machines. International capitalists and rogue intelligence agencies feed and oil the machines with bullshit and advertising pays for it.

Too much of what I see in media is over-sensationalized trivia or items tied to some head-spinning conspiracy theory. That's the way it was in most media outlets all over the world I watched for weeks on end during our election, mostly with Trump's picture front and center. Clinton was lucky to get a footnote on most days because most of what she put out to media was old-fashioned boring real human policy.

We can only hope our general public finally tires of a hyper-entertainment mode of life and becomes more immune to bullshit. Is there a vaccine for that?

[beam me up scottie]

70. Carl Sagan saw this coming a long time ago.

"I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."

- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

[progressoid]

75. Sagan for the win!

[beam me up scottie]

76. As are you!

[KY_EnviroGuy]

78. Nailed it! - Carl's the man.

Thanks for posting those great lines. Sagan had a way in his eloquent dialog of summarizing things perfectly with the least words, yet powerful and easy to understand.

Those lines should be read as an invocation at the start of every session of Congress. Too bad few would understand. "When the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority" sums it up well today, with "ability" being the key word.

I intend to print that and pass it along to my daughter, an elementary school teacher. I must get a copy of that book and thank you for the reference.

[beam me up scottie]

79. Yes they should!

Here it is in meme form if you want to print it out:




I have a well worn copy of that book, it's more relevant now than ever.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

82. Thanks again.

My daughter will love that. She teaches reading in the 8th grade. Along with better parenting, our teachers can be the key to fighting that "celebration of ignorance" that's far too common in adults today. The current administration is pushing that problem in the wrong direction and they do it on purpose. Motto: "Keep 'em dumb, desperate and divided". Good topic for another thread!

[shanny]

47. +1

[VOX]

65. A-fucking-men!

Pardon my language, but it makes me hopping mad when those on the left turn a blind eye to the *whole* Russian affair. It couldn't be more serious!

[beam me up scottie]

67. Outstanding rebuttal! Nicely done!

[BainsBane]

29. 788,000 dreamers are awaiting their fate this weekend

The election is not a dead horse to them. If you are safe from the consequences of the election, you are very fortunate.

[BainsBane]

27. I happen to think electoral integrity is a very big issue

She's no more a boogeyman that Flynn.

You never responded to my post in the other thread where I provided links refuting your claim that no progressive had backed Tim Ryan. It's easy to say you've never seen anything when you refuse to look. It doesn't make it truthful though.

[shanny]

44. Straw man.

Election integrity is imperative and has fuck all to do with Jill Stein. Unless you think the act of running for office in a democracy is as egregiously antidemocratic as supressing the vote, gerrymandering or altering vote totals.

If you do think those things are equivalent, we have nothing more to say to one another.

Btw in my previous post I said no progressive I knew had fallen for Ryan. I'm pretty sure I don't know them all and no doubt some are as fallible as anyone else. Ymmv. What is true is that Tim Ryan is no progressive.

[BainsBane]

74. The fact is Stein is part of the investigation by the Senate Judiciary Committee

Last edited Sat Sep 2, 2017, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)

and has refused to turn over documents. http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/343292-jill-stein-looped-into-widening-investigation-of-russia-and-trump-jr
Mueller may well be investigating her too. Whether she is refusing to turn over documents to protect herself or Don Jr., I don't know. Neither scenario is good.

There isn't anything wrong with Stein running for office, anymore than there is for Trump to run as a Republican. What's wrong is colluding in an effort to subvert American democracy.

Your defense of your previous claim doesn't hold water. I didn't say Ryan was progressive. At the time I said he was a right-winger, but his record opposing reproductive rights wasn't a concern for those who insist "progressive" excludes any concern for the majority of the population. He is white, male and had a "fresh face," which was enough for them. I dealt explicitly with your "I don't know any" point. You didn't provide a list of your associates for me to check against. I can only go based on what i read and how those people describe themselves, and I provided links to back up what I said.

This is the interchange in question:

You:

No progressive I know

bought his schtick then nor are they surprised now. I get that you don't care for progressives--as is your right--but at least go after them for things they actually do. It makes you more credible. Just a suggestion of course.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9540895

And the links I provided in response:

Here are just a few of the links for what you claim doesn't exist. You will need to read responses to the threads to appreciate the full magnitude of support for him. .
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028287680
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028313678
https://election.democraticunderground.com/10028286751
https://sync.democraticunderground.com/10028323214
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029234353

You insisted that progressives did not support Ryan. I provided evidence they did.

You don't seem to want to engage with evidence, and I provide it often, so I can understand why you wouldn't want to engage with me.

[shanny]

77. you have faith in the senate judiciary committee?

this senate judiciary committee? really. your credulity is...never mind.

"You insisted that progressives did not support Ryan." Uh, no. You quoted me accurately: No progressive I know bought his schtick then nor are they surprised now. and then disregarded what I said. You read all your own prejudices into it (I "insisted"?--hardly), and then refuted what you wish to think I said with quotes.

And now you wonder why I don't "engage". Asked and answered.

Bye.

[BainsBane]

80. I don't know any Nazis

That doesn't mean they don't exist. You conveniently ommited the second part of you comment when you lectured me about commenting on something you insisted doesn't exist. Clearly you were wrong and don't care that you were.

You clearly are only interested on conversations that validate your emotions, which explains your hostility to evidence.

Keep making excuses for holding multi-millionaires above the law. It highlights your values.

[R B Garr]

12. She's a liar and a fraud.

She doesn't mind those global oligarchs at all. $$$

[FairWinds]

13. Insert below photos of Obama with . .

a Castro . .

FDR with a Stalin . .

Kennedy with a Khrushchev . .

and etc.

Lets can the circular firing squad.

[R B Garr]

14. oh, please. It can't be a circular firing squad. She campaigns against

Democrats. None of the people you mentioned campaigned against Democrats.

[BainsBane]

23. Exactly. How absurd

She's firmly on the side of the GOP.

The same people who insist attack Stein is divisive insult Democrats constantly. They dont worry about circular firing squads against Democratic voters, against Pelosi or Feinstein. And they sure as hell didn't worry about it against Clinton. But criticize anybody carrying Trump's water, and that's divisive. I'm not interested in unifying around Trump's reelection.

[R B Garr]

59. +1000

Yes to everything you said.

She is certainly not out to help Democrats in any way, so let's quit propping people like this up. She's a liar.

[lapucelle]

85. I wonder if presidential candidate Alf Landon

was seated at the same table as Herr Hitler at the Der Sturmer anniversary banquet in 1936.

And all of the people mentioned were heads of state at official or diplomatic functions when the meetings took place.

[BainsBane]

20. Why would anyone defend Jill Stein?

WhY? She conned the public and pocketed $10 millions Dollars for herself. Is that the Kind of "progressivism" you admire? Then why not Joel Osteen?

Stein has refused to turn over financial documents to the Senate intelligence Committee. Her determination to conceal her financial dealings is another thing she has in common with Trump, that and the fact they are both con artists. They are also both pathological liars who hate Democrats. Like Trump, Stein blames Democrats for legislation that is entirely the doing of the GOP. She does it to provide cover for the GOP.

And Yalta and Potsdam are not the same as hacking the American electiral system and stripping the poor and marginalized of the right to vote. That is a goal that Putin and Trump share with the Vichy collaboration, people like Nokimi Konst who is leading disenfranchisement efforts by trying to replace primaries with caucuses to ensure the Democratic electorate is limited to the white and properted, targeting the exact same voters as the Kobash commission for the exact same reasons.

A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump, and those who cast them shared the same goals as the Tiki torch Nazis: the same White Nationalism, resentment of the same groups, and the same self-entitled demands for wealth and power at the cost of increased poverty and oppression for the subaltern.

Russia hasn't been communist for 30 years. Pretending that looking into a multi-millionaire's relationship to the Kremlin is red baiting is ridiculous. Mueller will get to the bottom of it, and the truth will eventually come out. Not that either Stein or Trimp voters will care. The self-entitled are never encumbered by truth.

[VOX]

63. OH COME ON!!! Serving false equivalency on the half-shell.

Really now. Who said Hillary was going to plunge us into a war? Who campaigned AGAINST her? Who's are Putin's lap dog from last year's election?

[Adrahil]

72. Circular, my ass. Jill Stein is NOT one of us. NT

[JHan]

90. what? LMAO

[mjvpi]

16. If Democrats can successfully present our ideas to the American people

We should win by a much bigger margin than is represented by the Greens. Let's not spend our time and energy blaming others. It wasn't votes that went to the Greens in rust belt states that lost us the election. Heck, if Jill Steins recount could have got all the way to some really crazy results from Detroit, we might have actually seen the results of some Russian hacking. 70 thousand people wait for an hour and a half to vote and then don't cast a vote for President? That doesn't pass the smell test. I can't imagine what a recount would have looked like.

[BainsBane]

26. Stein's vote total in those states was larger than

Trump's margin of victory, so of course those votes had an impact.

Jill Stein pocketed $10millon from that recount. She wildly over inflated her ask in order to do just that. She's a con artist. She's also refused to turn over her financial records relating to Russia and the campaign to the Senate Intelligence committee. She is obviously hiding something.

[Hekate]

35. We did win. Hillary got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. All the way thru, Trump bellowed that...

...the election was "rigged." well, like everything else negative that he claims is hurting him, it turned out to be pure projection on his part. Increasingly, it looks like the election was rigged in a way that favored Trump. Stein just did her little bit to make it so.

[questionseverything]

62. stein was the only candidate to try and get true voting results for us

these people that constantly put her down make me wonder...why don't they want accurate results?

results that clearly would of shown hc to be the winner

the clerk in racine screamed at activists that there would be no hand counts NO MATTER WHAT

you would think that would be a huge red flag

[melman]

24. lol

Back so soon?

[chwaliszewski]

19. I still think the #1 problem this past election was...

the amount of people who actually, honest and for true, voted for Trump. Not disgruntled Bernie Bros, not the fake and dishonest manipulated Trump votes, but the actual ones who were voting for Trump no matter what. That is a sick, misguided lot right there.

[BainsBane]

25. Who knows now

I would have agreed with you last November. But with the recent revelations about disruptions on Election day, it's impossible to know what really brought about the result.

Still. The margins in key states were so narrow--2 votes per precinct in MI--every vote or non-vote mattered.

[VOX]

68. It appears now that 45 had some "help" in tilting the table...

The Russian mess needs to be cleaned up, because the stakes couldn't be higher.

In the end, you may be correct, it could be that some Americans just got suckered. But if it shakes out that Russia gave Cult45 a hand (or laundered money), then that's conspiracy, at the very least.

Interesting times indeed.

[C Moon]

22. It looks like Putin is wondering where HIS dinner is.

[BainsBane]

30. Feinstein must be put out of office

But Stein must not be criticized. Think about that.

No, I will not be "unifying" around the reflection of Donald Trump.

[NurseJackie]

43. Where is all this love and affection for Jill Stein coming from? And why now?

I don't get it. Can this be easily explained? Is there something going on that I should be aware of?

[BannonsLiver]

49. Look at the first reply

Aggressive whataboutism. Why?

[NurseJackie]

51. Yes, I saw. It's maddening. The back-slapping replies are also...

... but not at all surprising.

Aggressive whataboutism. Why?

We probably both know the answer to that question.

[Eliot Rosewater]

61. I expect that stuff elsewhere, not here

[still_one]

34. For those unaware of vanden Heuvel and her husband acting as Putin apologists

"A few months ago, at the height of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict over Crimea, Stephen F. Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton, acquired a certain notoriety as the Kremlin’s No. 1 American apologist. As Cohen made Russia’s case and lamented the American media’s meanness to Vladimir Putin in print and on the airwaves, he was mocked as a “patsy” and a “dupe” everywhere from the conservative Free Beacon to the liberal New York and New Republic. Now, as the hostilities in eastern Ukraine have turned to the tragedy of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, Cohen is at it again—this time, with a long article in the current issue of The Nation indicting “Kiev’s atrocities” in eastern Ukraine and America’s collusion therein. The timing is rather unfortunate for Cohen and The Nation, since the piece is also unabashedly sympathetic to the Russian-backed militants who appear responsible for the murder of 298 innocent civilians."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/07/stephen_cohen_vladimir_putin_s_apologist_the_nation_just_published_the_most.html


http://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-stephen-f-cohen-vladimir-putins-best-friend-in-the-american-media

[Mike Nelson]

36. Jill Stein...

...even without that photo, she was obvious.

[DetlefK]

37. Of course. It's well-known that Putin allies with anybody critical of the US-government. ANYBODY.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029495477

[Demsrule86]

42. No, She is Putin's girl.

A traitor to liberalism and to this country.

[m-lekktor]

39. This photo was posted about twice or three times a day for months during the primary.

It's not as if everybody hasn't seen it a bazillion times already.

[Demsrule86]

41. It is a good reminder about who Jill Stein really is...as much the enemy as any GOP type.

[BannonsLiver]

50. It's ok, I don't mind seeing it again

One can always avert their eyes if its a problem for them.

[Demsrule86]

40. I cancelled the Nation also.

[Lil Missy]

45. If anyone here voted for stein - they don't belong here.

[PubliusEnigma]

55. They have their reasons for coming here. You can be sure.

[Trumpocalypse]

56. If they are willing to take responsibility for their action

and admit their mistake, I have no problem with a Stein voter being here. One thing that drives me crazy is Nader voters who still refuse to take any responsibility for their vote in 2000 despite all the evidence that has mounted over the years that Nader cost Al Gore the election in 2000.

[WinkyDink]

57. OMG. THIS IS OLD STUFF. Time to MOVE ALONG and stop fomenting!!!

[VOX]

64. It is old, but apparently the lesson has fallen on some deaf ears.

And until this turd gets properly covered with kitty litter, it's going to continue stinking up DU.

But I hear you.

[BainsBane]

69. If you think it's "old stuff"

Last edited Sat Sep 2, 2017, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Then you are very fortunate not to feel the consequences of Kremlin interference in the election.
788,000 dreamers are spending this weekend worried about what Trump will do to them. It's not "old stuff" to them.

Nor is it old stuff to Robert Mueller, who is investigating the Kremlin intervention and any role Americans played in it. Toward that end, the Senate Judiciary committee has asked Stein to provide financial information related to her campaign and relationship to RT. She has refused. Like Trump, Flynn, and Kushner, and Don Jr, she has something to hide.


Edit: correction of the above statement about Stein's role in the investigation.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/343292-jill-stein-looped-into-widening-investigation-of-russia-and-trump-jr

[WinkyDink]

83. O, FGS. The photo has been shown here MANY TIMES. The rest of your reply is just bizarre, re: ME.

[BainsBane]

84. I'm sure Flynn thinks the same thing regarding that photo

and Trump certainty thinks the investigation is old news. Mueller and the Senate do not. http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/343292-jill-stein-looped-into-widening-investigation-of-russia-and-trump-jr

Yes. It's terribly bizarre to think about what election interference means in the lives of immigrants. What's more important is defending multi-millionaires. We all have our priorities.

[Adrahil]

73. Fomenting what? Stein is not our ally. NT

[Arazi]

81. Nobody here voted for Stein. Fuck this shit

What are you doing to help us win in 2018? Preaching to the choir on DU? Well that's not going to get the Dems in office in the next local and state elections, or 2018.

I attended a workshop on registering voters today. Tomorrow I'm going to a meet and greet with a potential Dem candidate.

It's way past time to get moving on 2018

[Gore1FL]

86. +1

At DU, Green party members are Schrödinger's voters. They are simultaneously shunned from being part of the left's coalition and blamed for not voting with the left's coalition.

I chalk it up to the stages grief; I'd like to see us get past this and into acceptance long before 2018 rolls around.