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Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:14 PM

Wondering why Anarchists are

Wondering why Anarchists such as the Black Bloc are associated with the Left? Anarchists don't want any government or regulations. Right Wingers don't want government or regulations. Why do they march with Peace Protesters instead of with White Nationalists?

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:17 PM

1. Some of them are paid.

Some are undercover.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 06:06 PM

13. They do seem strangely more organized than

would be expected from people who don't want regulations, routines or order placed upon themselves. They seem almost militaristic. How do Anarchists plan where to be and what actions to take? Has any one Black Bloc member ever been arrested and been outed in the press? If they are not agents provocateur, they are extremely adroit at escaping public exposure.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:17 PM

2. An excellent point.

They are far closer to Libertarians.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:18 PM

3. Probably to cause trouble to discredit the left ?

Just taking a guess.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:21 PM

4. They're generally Libertarian Left.

Think of a leftist ideology, but with an extremist Libertarian philosophy included. Their views of the government's job in civilian life align more with Ron Paul than progressives. However, they're even more extreme than Ron Paul and are not conservative.

They're not really progressives or Liberals. They're more like left-leaning tribalists.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:31 PM

5. I think they're socially extreme left, everything goes

every person for themself, no personal laws.
But politically/economically extream right.. no government control on business, no tax, no social programs, no government control of property, no military.

Ultimately every person for themself with no collective resposibility.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:33 PM

6. It's their style, not so much any sort of coherent message

They tend to trash property more than attack people, which is what violent people on the left generally do.

You always know it's a right wing gang, no matter how Orwellian the name is, because they attack people.

The anarchists you're referring to aren't a political movement as much as a bunch of nihilists who have recognized that modern culture is over complex, over specialized, intrusive, and nerve jangling. They want to tear it down. That seems to be it.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:35 PM

7. Anarchists don't really march. They show up to cause trouble.

Anarchists show up and cause trouble wherever there is trouble to be caused. Some lefty groups tolerate them, which is a mistake, I believe. Any group that insists on non-violence doesn't welcome anarchists.

You will not see anarchists welcomed at a march sponsored by NAACP, for instance.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:40 PM

8. Extremists on the left and right are far more like each other than not but do also have

a couple significant differences. But those similarities mean they sometimes change sides as they choose.

BUT, it's helpful to realize that a lot of supposedly left-wing black extremists are actually very strong conservatives by personality, only acting as leftists to oppose fellow conservatives they're battling on the right, whether white, hispanic, whatever. There are few real anarchists -- but a lot of hostile, spiteful jerks who want to grab torches and burn everything in sight.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:43 PM

9. They aren't Rightists b/c they believe in democratic control of capital.

Think employee-owned businesses, like Publix and W.W. Norton, or cooperatives like REI. They also support more collective decision-making and such.

The basic idea behind anarchism is that, as Chomsky puts it, power bears the burden of proof. In other words, if someone wants to use force on me, he bears the burden of showing a compelling reason why he should be able to.

The idea that anarchists are just Randroids under a different name is, simply put, bullshit.

As for the Black Bloc and others, I have long believed that they are agents provocateurs.

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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 04:49 PM

10. Here is an interesting article about them from the June 21 New Yorker:

The Ongoing Legal Battle Over the “Black Bloc” Inauguration Day Protest

The protest—which used tactics long associated with anarchists and anticapitalists, including dressing in black to create a sense of solidarity and to make it difficult to distinguish individuals—was the most confrontational to take place in Washington in more than a decade, and it provoked an unusual response from local prosecutors: they obtained indictments charging more than two hundred people with conspiracy and with instances of property damage that appear to have been carried out by only a few individuals.


Much more at link:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-ongoing-legal-battle-over-the-black-bloc-inauguration-day-protest



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Response to sagesnow (Original post)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 05:29 PM

11. left anarchists are generally fine with participatory democracy

left libertarians are quite different ideologically from individualist anarchists and anarcho-capitalists. Reducing anarchism to "they don't want any government" might make it easy to attack them but it is a mistake.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 3, 2017, 05:34 PM

12. +1

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