To the people who did not vote for HRC & still bragging about it. You are not an ally!. THREAD:

[Madam45for2923]

Last edited Mon Sep 4, 2017, 11:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Author of thread is talking about voters in general, not about DU specifically.

Link to tweet

Tonight is one of those nights where I have to sit and wonder how there are still people out there bragging about not voting for Hillary. 1/

Let's face the facts: If Hillary were President, the headline tonight wouldn't be that the President is shredding DACA. I can assure you. 2/

Would things be flowers & roses? No. Would we be brunching without a care? No. But so many people would be safer under President Clinton. 3/

We wouldn't have to worry about Obamacare being repealed because President Clinton would veto every horrendous healthcare bill. 4/

Families like Karla Ortiz's wouldn't have to fear deportation on a daily basis. LGBTQ+ people would have an advocate in the Oval. 5/

We'd have a President who isn't afraid to say #BlackLivesMatter. Who recognizes that police brutality and white supremacy are problems. 6/

It wasn't just about voting for Hillary Clinton. It was about ensuring federal protections for marginalized communities. 7/

To the people who had the privilege to sit at home, vote 3rd party, &/or treat the election as a joke: shame on you. You're not an ally. 8/

There were so many people counting on you to elect a President, Governors, Senators, and Reps that would protect them. You let them down. 9/

Own up to the mistake. I hope to see you on the front lines. Because now we really cannot afford to lose more than we have already. 10/10

About DACA:

Link to tweet

[Madam45for2923]

1. Don't worry everyone, Susan Sarandon is doing just fine.

Don't worry everyone, Susan Sarandon is doing just fine.

Link to tweet

[Madam45for2923]

4. If they come for me in the morning, they will come for you in the night

If they come for me in the morning, they will come for you in the night

[RhodeIslandOne]

30. I rec this n/m

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Thank God

This thing wasn't gonna drink itself!

[brush]

2. K&R

[cwydro]

3. Yet another of these type threads.

If there are those such people here on DU, please alert on them...or let the admins know.

I've seen no one here brag about here that since the primaries. I think they've found a new home. Let them rot in it.

[MineralMan]

5. Nobody's bragging about it, because that's a sure path toward

getting booted from the site. However, such people are still here on DU. Their message, however, is far more subtle than a direct statement bragging about voting for a third party or not voting at all.

Reminders of what happened in November of 2016 are still pertinent today, because we have new elections coming up more quickly than we think. There's no reason not to provide those reminders of what happens if we fail to support Democratic candidates in all election races. The world is far bigger than DU, besides, and this thread is about that larger world.

If such threads are personally annoying to someone on DU, they're easily ignored.

[cwydro]

7. Yes, you're right. I'll ignore them from now on.

I just don't get how people keep saying that there are those here who didn't vote for Hillary. Just haven't seen it.

Who are they? Got a link? I've not seen one single post that seems happy for her loss (not that she really lost, but somehow she's not the president.)

And if they are here, these threads just make them happy as hell. They're just pointless.

[Madam45for2923]

11. I don't care if I make them happy as hell & If that's so, then it is a defensive/offens mechanism.

Affectation, much?

We got a sadist for a Prez. Many do not care. Their words/actions/feelings (including happy as hell) speak volumes.

It is in what they do and what they don't do. Say or don't say. Feel or don't feel.

If I make people who are not showing good judgment- happy as hell- why should I care? These are not serious people.

Their happy as hell feelings are callous and a tad sadist, no? It says more about them, than about me/us.

In my book if they dare be happy as hell at this moment in time they lost credibility and are truly not our allies.


cwydro
7. Yes, you're right. I'll ignore them from now on.
View profile
I just don't get how people keep saying that there are those here who didn't vote for Hillary. Just haven't seen it.

Who are they? Got a link? I've not seen one single post that seems happy for her loss (not that she really lost, but somehow she's not the president.)

And if they are here, these threads just make them happy as hell. They're just pointless.

[cwydro]

16. You may have a point.

I just have no patience for shitgibbon supporters. No doubt they'll find out soon enough how they were completely taken for suckers.

It still boggles my mind that there were/are that many stupid (and certainly racist) morons in this country.

[melman]

8. Seeing a lot of this "they're still here" stuff lately

Weird.

[heaven05]

21. nothing is ever

weird about that truth concerning...."they are still here"....period.

[melman]

39. No it's definitely weird

These memes don't pop up by themselves either. There's usually some coordination.

[heaven05]

41. but, but

"they" ARE still here... nothing weird about that.... strange that "they" are still allowed given the outcome of the stolen GE in favor of a fascist. But 'free' country, for some, eh?

[Madam45for2923]

6. I used the thread writer's words. Not about DU specifically.

[cwydro]

10. I know; there's just so many of these threads.

Usually they're of the type that curses everyone out who didn't vote for Hillary. Yours isn't doing that, I simply don't see who these serve.

Trolls will just laugh and the rest of us don't need the lecture.

No offense meant. I'll take Mineral Man's suggestion from hereon.

[Madam45for2923]

12. Trolls laughing. Woah what a great life they have.

Being sarcastic.

IMO It suks to be them.

cwydro
10. I know; there's just so many of these threads.

Usually they're of the type that curses everyone out who didn't vote for Hillary. Yours isn't doing that, I simply don't see who these serve.

Trolls will just laugh and the rest of us don't need the lecture.

No offense meant. I'll take Mineral Man's suggestion from hereon.

Thanks cwydro for your comments.

[cwydro]

13. Agree.

It would totally suck to have been a person who helped elect this shitstain on our country.

[karynnj]

27. Same here - I have seen no one brag about it, but hundreds of OPs just like this one

I have not even seen many posts saying that they did not vote, voted for a third party or for Trump.

I suspect what some of the posters are mistaking for that are the very normal posts that say that had HRC not been the nominee - we would have won. This is no different than the committed Deaniacs or even the Kuchinich people and some arguing that that could have been HRC's year who claimed that the Democrats would have won had Kerry not been the nominee - note there were many such comments in 2005 and 2006 before the focus was 2008. (The comments that it could have been HRC's year were very recent.)

Those posts, no matter how painful for people who strongly supported the nominee, may be unfortunate and unhelpful, but they are NOT the same as arguing for NOT voting for the nominee in the upcoming election. They are also NOT saying that they were not among the people who voted for the nominee - even if they did not like her/him.

One danger this time is that there has been a fairly large number of posts that actually fault Sanders for having run against her and extend the critism to all who supported him or anyone who critized HRC in any way. I get the sensitivity. I hated the negative comments on Kerry, who I still think ran a strong race at a difficult time with less than full support from many Democrats. I get that many HRC supporters are implicitly saying that Clinton was not given as much support from left leaning Democrats as she deserved.

Post motems are always painful for the loser. Because the media and pundits want to make the results conform to the story, every highlight that still rings true to you is eliminated, while any faux pas - no matter how minor it really was - becomes part of the reason for the loss. On the other hand, whether GWB, Bill Clinton, Obama etc the winning team showed great strategy and brilliance in winning. Fortunately, Trump is so aberrant that we have at least been spared this. In reality, life is messier than what makes a good coherent story.

[heaven05]

44. some here,

Last edited Tue Sep 5, 2017, 12:02 PM - Edit history (1)

posting these type of obfuscating and distraction responses lambasting those who didn't vote in the real battle, the GE are right on the mark. Some did "brag" about not going to vote HRC or were going to post a vote for third party or write in one....no "they" do/did a great disservice to the Democratic Party and us democrats. Period

[karynnj]

47. If they actually did that

I saw the number of such posts diminish from the time of the primaries, to the convention and through the general election. I really did not see that in the last weeks. I DID see people posting that they were voting for HRC reluctantly "holding their nose" and just against Trump. I also did not see people posting that they did not vote for Clinton after DU was restored.

Yes, I know that DU historically also had many people not really identifying as Democrats. Back in DU 2, they were the ones who were mostly in GD; while most of us more mainstream people found GDP. I knew if I wanted to start a thread on anything Senator Kerry was doing to put it in GD P. If I put something about the SFRC in GD, it would sink to the bottom of the page without a single comment and sometimes with few reads. At that time, Kuchinich was easily more respected in GD than Kerry, Clinton, Gore etc.

I think many of those left of Kuchinich people, who I avoided for years, were the ones who fled elsewhere in 2016. Their support of Russia was pretty strange. I suspect that we learned in 2016, that many of these "purists" were NOT Democrats and were never really with us ... just as some PUMA irritants in 2008 were not really for HRC -- just trolls.

[DFW]

9. This thread doesn't bother me because I do know such people

And so do most of us.

Is there a doubt in anyone's mind that at this point in her presidency, Hillary would already have been accused--on this board--of being, for example, "a POS used car saleswoman?"

Trump is, quite correctly, catching at least as much derision as he deserves for exceeding our worst expectations. Hillary would be the object of similar derision for not living up to the impossible ideals of some people's best expectations.

How ironic--Hillary would have caught flak quite unfairly for being human, whereas Trump is catching flak quite fairly because he's not.

[Madam45for2923]

14. Three weeks ago, I had a guy tell me that he was glad HRC did not win. IRL

We were with a small group guarding a Planned Parenthood in my county- so he was not a RWger. Yey he had it in him to tell me that!

It was disgusting to see in person.

[Madam45for2923]

29. Oh my! As you were!

vkkv
24. There you go. Closing one's mind so easily, so quickly, simply because an idea offends

you is not so far off from the way most Trump voters think.

His comment about HRC not winning "disgusted" you? Really??

I mean, REALLY ???

Yikes.. what have some lefties come to?

Why isn't it all HRC's FAULT for not dropping out and letting Bernie win? He had FAR BETTER numbers in the chances of winning over Trump.

[Hekate]

38. Thanks for the full quote

[yardwork]

49. Thank you for recording the proof of your point.

[BainsBane]

66. Contempt for democracy

and the voting rights of American citizens. I wish I could say I was surprised, but it's not like that contempt for equal rights hasn't been evident all along.

The cognitive dissonance is off the chart: someone who couldn't win unless the other candidates dropped out and left him with no competition, according to that poster's own analysis, was going to suddenly be able to win in a GE? Or were the Republicans supposed to drop out as well?

That is precisely why I don't for a second believe one word of the rhetoric about equality or economic justice.

[Pachamama]

15. +1000

Completely agree....

[Hekate]

37. There is no doubt in my mind at all of what you said. The Mad King is gonna get us killed...

...in one of his temper tantrums. Before the election there were people who told me to my face, in all seriousness, "Hillary is a warmonger. She will get us into a war. She wants it."

We're off the cliff. Have we hit bottom yet?

[aeromanKC]

17. Those who enabled Trump to win are worse than those who enabled Hitler to gain power.

They had the hindsight of History.

(as for me, I sleep well at night now knowing what I would have done if I lived in Germany in the 30's.)

[DK504]

18. Excellent post.

HRC had a detailed platform on her website. I have always wondered if any of the Stein / Johnson voters ever bothered to look at it. Every thing mentioned would be relevant. Children and hard workers wouldn't be ripped off their playgrounds or while Mom is picking them up for school.

She would have struggles like ALL presidents and we wouldn't agree with every thing she did, but look at what has become of us since November. We are at each others throats and families aren't speaking to one another. I hope all those voters are happy over what they did.

Was Sarandon for Obama or did she go for the libertarian/independent/whatever party when he ran?

[Chakaconcarne]

19. is du getting botted today or what?

[Madam45for2923]

20. ??? Say more...

[sharedvalues]

23. Fallacy: begging the question.

Why does the op make such a fallacious argument?
Assuming the first part of the headline is true - when there is no evidence anyone is bragging.

Show the bragging evidence first and then we can discuss the rest of the argument. Otherwise what's the point?

[vkkv]

25. Exactly, I talk a lot of politics with people and never have I heard someone "bragging" about not

voting for HRC or being glad that she lost.

This entire premise is not based on shared experience and seems kind of MADE UP!

[Lucky Luciano]

34. I know a couple in real life.

My primary contact with them is FB, but I knew them well when I lived in Los Angeles. Even pushing the idea that Russian investigations are pure hysteria.

[sharedvalues]

35. If one was trying to divide Democrats, one might want to make up a story like this.

Not that I'm saying that's what the OP is doing, they're probably not, and maybe they heard this line from another source.

[Ninsianna]

40. Anyone trying to divide democrats would be denying reality and

accusing people pointing out simple facts of "making up stories".

They're not making anything up, they just read the boards, read twitter and FB and see people still parroting the RW nonsense to attack HRC, defend Stein and ignore the damage done to Dems from the RT platform, propaganda lies, fake FB pages and the bot army that was and continues to stoke division.

Let's stop with the divisive crap. And you're very much saying what you're "not saying".

[sharedvalues]

48. No. An effort to divide Democrats could include

... accusations of boasting about votes withheld from Hillary. Which is assumed by the headline of this post.

The OP could well just have been echoing other sources, of course.

[Ninsianna]

68. Sure it could include lots of things. By accusing people of lying with no basis is very much

a divisive effort. There are reports of such boasting, prominent people have done it, accusing someone of lying for pointing out the painfully obvious and very public accounts is divisive.

The OP was referencing reality, the false accusations are made out of ignorance and a desire to divide.

[Ninsianna]

42. So do I and I've heard this.

I saw a lot of it DURING the GE where people were proudly bragging about not voting, cause they didn't get their way. During voter registration where they would just flap their hands and say, why vote anyway, it's all rigged!

The purity brigade was very much about this bragging. Where hand recounts were done, we SAW this in the people who wrote in invalid candidates and left the rest of the ballot blank.

The entire premise is factual. The denial of it is either "MADE UP" or done so out of ignorance, either willful or otherwise.

[yardwork]

51. I know a self-described left wing progressive who is still happy that Hillary lost.

He lives in a swing state and brags that he wrote in Bernie. He's become so racist and all-around bigoted he agrees with most of what Trump has done. He brags about his beliefs and his vote against Hillary.

[sharedvalues]

60. Racists are not left wing progressives

No matter how self proclaimed they are.

If someone voted against Hillary, enabling Trump, brags about it, and is a racist ---- that person is not a Democrat.

[yardwork]

65. I agree.

[xmas74]

63. I know someone irl

Who is ecstatic that she lost. He wants this country to burn to the ground.

Btw -he posts here sometimes. I'm disgusted with myself for telling him about the site.

[mcar]

56. Look on Twitter

specifically the latest posts from Peter Daou about his new website. You'll see them.

[sharedvalues]

61. But be careful: Russian bots are tweeting about single payer

Check this:

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org

Note that one of the trending hashtags in Russian influence networks is "single payer Sunday".

I.e.: the Russians are trying to weaken the US by dividing Democrats. So be careful when you see tweets bragging about voting against HRC -- those kind of tweets are natural for the Russians, or for that matter American RW media, to amplify.

[lapucelle]

64. The OP headline is not an argument.

As an "if then" statement in isolation, it is a proposition.

While the truth values of propositions can be plotted out, propositions themselves neither assert truth nor function as arguments.

[stonecutter357]

26. K&R

[Cryptoad]

28. Are those who have this

overwhelming urge to stir the Ole ShitPot, just a trolling?

[louis c]

31. I couldn't agree more

K&R

[RhodeIslandOne]

32. You would think that certain "progressive alternatives" to DU.....

....would be furious this morning. They remain *mostly* quiet, as if they really just can't say anything.......I would expect 200 post threads by now......but.....well one can't say anything when they knew their false equivalence was bullshit.

[Zen Democrat]

33. I don't see the point in these negative posts. I voted for HRC and I assume everyone at DU did.

Except the trolls - and you can't reach them. They have to have the realization that their worldview is limited and generally they don't have the emotional depth to go there. I vote to be happy here at DU where we are united and working positively against the fascism raging in our country.

[beachbum bob]

36. really is time to put all this behind us and prepare and take action for 2018

discussing events that can't be change is a waste of time.....those who did not support HRC bear the responsibility for what they see trump and conservatives doing now....time to move on

[pressbox69]

43. Never again

but this time there may not be any again.

[left-of-center2012]

45. How much longer will people look for villains in 2016?

Time is being wasted looking backward,
when we need to work on 2018, 2020.

[Madam45for2923]

46. Til we make sure it is not ongoing and therefore cannot be repeated.

[left-of-center2012]

50. If we keep looking backward ...

... we won't see what's in front of us.

[Madam45for2923]

58. If there is a train behind us, well am glad to take the time look back-ward.

No worries! Go ahead look front-ward!

We will let you know if we see a train headed our way.

[yardwork]

52. I am looking forward and the same people are doing the same thing again.

On a daily basis we hear this Democrat or that is not pure enough to "deserve" Democrats' votes.

We're headed for another loss in 2018 until people wake the fuck up.

If reminding them how bad their previous decision has turned out is the only way to get through to them, so be it.

[Warpy]

53. Get another hobby.

These threads are annoying and repetitive, not to mention on the wrong site.

Enough.

[left-of-center2012]

59. Amen

Some folks (who shall remain nameless) keep wanting to stir the pot,
but that will weaken us going forward.

Aren't we supposed to get over 2016 and work at beating the GOP in 2018 and 2020?

I fear these 'naysayers' (who shall remain nameless) will hurt us.

[lunamagica]

54. K&R.

[Thinkingabout]

55. I supported Hillary from the start, was not happy to see she did not win. I do believe as Democrats

and Liberals we would have faired much better with Hillary, the legacy of President Obama would have been preserved and the things he worked on would have been improved plus a better SC justice. I did not think it would be good under a Trump administration but I never thought it would be as bad as it is. Makes me miss President Obama more and wish Hillary was president more.

[jrthin]

57. AMEN! eom

[R B Garr]

67. K&R