Sure Hillary Made Mistakes But The Election Was Still Fraudulent & Stolen We Damned Well Know It.

[TheMastersNemesis]

The media just cannot really admit the obvious based on all the evidence. This election has to be the most corrupted in our history. We know key states were stolen with voter suppression, uncounted ballots and racist gerrymandering on an atomic scale. . And we know the media delivered the presidency to Trump with its incessant email crap that was totally made up. This election was GOP category 5 storm. And they are working at making the next one really a doozy.

Even now the media seems to be desperate to paint this bastard as the "new norm". For God's sake even a damned pig on the ballot should have beating this racist boigted bastard. And with the Russian interference even God could not have won the election.

THE ELECTION IS FUCKING FAILURE OF THE AMERICAN VOTER. WE HAVE TOO MANY WHITE RACISTS ALL OVER THIS NATION AROUND WHOSE BRAINS ARE IN THEIR LITTLE BIGOTED ASSES. They would let Trump and GOP shoot their children because their hatred is so deep.

[dalton99a]

1. What she wrote about Russian interference is a must read

[stevepal]

67. Why leave out the voting machines??

Voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc. are all bad and it's true they had an effect on the election but the voting machines could be the most powerful agent of election theft of all. The problem is we can never know the role of the machines in stealing the election because NOBODY KNOWS WHETHER OR IF THERE WAS RIGGING OR MALICIOUS PROGRAMMING. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE RESULTS WHEN VOTING MACHINES ARE USED. BECAUSE . . .

THE. PAPER. IS. NEVER. COUNTED.

THE VOTE. IS. NEVER. V E R I F I E D ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Why do we always ignore the biggest danger of all?

Did the Russians hack into voting machines? Who knows? How can anybody know?

The only way to know is by verifying the vote, and this WE WILL NOT DO.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why.

[not fooled]

70. When pukes show they will lie, cheat and steal

to "win" elections because by god they deserve it, and there are trillions at stake, who really thinks they would stick at interfering with the voting process? Of course they would, and no doubt have. There has been "red shift" discrepancy between exit polls and election "results" ever since the machines came into use. That's when exit polling stopped in the U.S. Can't have the populace questioning those installed into office.

Bottom line: Americans don't want the GOPee's sh*tty policies. They can only keep power by cheating.

[Lulu KC]

75. Yes yes yes

States are removing them (as intelligent countries like the Netherlands did) but why is this not a bigger deal? A national thing? Well, pardon that question--I know why.

Someday we will get there. Someday we will be smart. I keep telling myself this.

[StevieM]

2. The FBI was more complicit than the Russians. (eom)

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. No.

[Girard442]

3. The "she made a lot of mistakes" meme is useless.

Everybody in a political campaign makes lots of mistakes. Each campaign is unique: the battles are often fought on unexplored territory. The people involved are invariably a motley crew with widely varying amounts of experience and motives all over the map. An accomplished cat herder would struggle to deal with them.

In close election it's tempting to point out some candidate's error and say, "if she hadn't messed up there, she would have won the election." That may actually be true, but it's not useful.

What we need to focus on is that our democracy has suffered a large-scale meltdown. If our electoral decisions had any degree of rationality, Hillary would have won in a landslide, even if she'd never ventured out of her house through the whole campaign -- but there is no rationality. Blame racism, sexism, vote suppression, Russian interference, whatever, but the system is broken.

[ehrnst]

4. A campaign is a huge project, lots of moving parts, and mistakes will be made

The fact that the statement, "She made mistakes, and therfore means she ran a crappy campaign," isn't based in reality.

Neither is, "If she points fingers at Russia, Comey and and those on the far left, she's not admiting to any mistakes."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. She made mistakes, but Putin, Trump & GOP have agendas to grossly exaggerate the quantity.

Don't fall for the Russian Web Brigades trolling.

[iluvtennis]

26. Exactly. Well said.

[samnsara]

62. ..but because shes a woman her campaign was expected to be perfect

[handmade34]

7. righteous rant...

what you say ...and this must read article by Ta-Nehisi Coates

"... so the most powerful country in the world has handed over all its affairs—the prosperity of its entire economy; the security of its 300 million citizens; the purity of its water, the viability of its air, the safety of its food; the future of its vast system of education; the soundness of its national highways, airways, and railways; the apocalyptic potential of its nuclear arsenal—to a carnival barker who introduced the phrase grab ’em by the pussy into the national lexicon...

The American tragedy now being wrought is larger than most imagine and will not end with Trump. In recent times, whiteness as an overt political tactic has been restrained by a kind of cordiality that held that its overt invocation would scare off “moderate” whites. This has proved to be only half true at best. Trump’s legacy will be exposing the patina of decency for what it is and revealing just how much a demagogue can get away with. It does not take much to imagine another politician, wiser in the ways of Washington and better schooled in the methodology of governance—and now liberated from the pretense of antiracist civility—doing a much more effective job than Trump.

It has long been an axiom among certain black writers and thinkers that while whiteness endangers the bodies of black people in the immediate sense, the larger threat is to white people themselves, the shared country, and even the whole world. There is an impulse to blanch at this sort of grandiosity. When W. E. B. Du Bois claims that slavery was “singularly disastrous for modern civilization” or James Baldwin claims that whites “have brought humanity to the edge of oblivion: because they think they are white,” the instinct is to cry exaggeration. But there really is no other way to read the presidency of Donald Trump. The first white president in American history is also the most dangerous president—and he is made more dangerous still by the fact that those charged with analyzing him cannot name his essential nature, because they too are implicated in it."

[MontanaMama]

8. I can't understand why

it seems to be so goddamn important to some people that HRC publicly wallow in her "mistakes". WTF is this about? When have we as citizens ever expected this from the candidate from either party after a national election? She didn't let us down. We let ourselves down by not rallying behind her. We decided to behave like frogs loaded in a wheelbarrow and not fall in line. The hacking, cheating and voter suppression were unprecidented...and she still got more votes for Pete's sake! This effort to shame HRC in her "mistakes" is sick and warped. Stop it.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. It's easy to understand.

SHE was the best qualified candidate of all. EVER.

[NastyRiffraff]

29. As to why, here's a hint:

Al Gore*, John Kerry, Mitt Romney, John McCain all lost a presidential race. None of them were asked to apologize for "mistakes." See the difference?

*Well, not Gore. The Supremes took care of him.

[treestar]

58. and except for Al Gore, they did not even win the popular vote

so their "mistakes" were more definitely the cause of their losing.

[sacto95834]

30. Response to your question

Loosing candidates don't write books about why they lost an election. Usually after the concession speech they get off the platform and return to their former jobs and keep a low profile or they find a new way to channel their energy - ie, Habitat for Humanity; climate change, or just being a rich private citizen.

If HRC had just left the platform, nobody would expect her to offer any explanation about her loss. However, for whatever reason, she has chosen to write a book. If it's helpful to her as closure, fine. Have at it. However don't be surprised if you get push back for what you write about, especially if you name names.

[nolabear]

36. No other candidate has been excoriated the way she has been.

They're STILL chanting "Lock her up!" for Christ's sake. They're selling T-shirts with her face and a gun sight. The Orange Menace tweets insults about her, Bernie followers constantly snipe at her on social media, she's accused daily of things she apparently should be ashamed of, like staying married, having a philanthropic foundation, wearing pantsuits, existing...

So yes, she not only has the right not to sit back and take the unceasing, disgusting abuse that no other former candidate has been subjected to, her refusal to do so gives courage and strength to generations of people, male and female, who are being treated as less in spite of being so, so much more.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. "Bernie followers constantly snipe at her on social media"...

Riiight.... it's 10 times the sniping by Hillary followers at Bernie. Let's be real.

[murielm99]

37. Is Obama keeping a low profile?

I don't think so: http://thehill.com/homenews/news/350419-obama-gathering-civic-leaders-for-obama-foundation-summit

He also made a statement about 45's DACA actions.

Should he keep a low profile? Should he shut up and go away? No and no.

Is Bernie Sanders keeping a low profile? He was a losing candidate. (Not "loosing," BTW). He wrote two books. What happens on DU is you tell BS to go away? Your post is removed or you are banned.

People wouldn't expect an explanation if she was silent? Of course they would. They would expect abasement, sackcloth and ashes. After all, she is a woman.

[MontanaMama]

39. First of all

I think you meant losing candidate not "loosing". And, if I understand you correctly, after taking more shit than any other candidate in history, after she sustained Russian hacking and theft of her emails, after the MSM attacked her for being careless with emails that were stolen from her, after record breaking voter suppression from the right and after she won the popular vote but not the electoral college YOU think that she should go back to her former job, keep a low profile and shut up? Right, whatever. I'm glad she's naming names. She has every right to name names. BTW, her former jobs as Secretary of State, Senator, FLOTUS aren't exactly jobs she can go back to. Don't even think you can say that if she were a man she'd be taking this load of crap from you and others - she wouldn't. Many of us appreciate that she is still part of the conversation. We need her voice in the face of the evil that has taken power in this coup.

[pnwmom]

40. Bernie was a losing candidate and you didn't complain about his writing a book. How come?

[Expecting Rain]

71. Yeah, but that's different

[lunamagica]

46. She was asked to apologize LONG before the book came out

Let's not pretend this is happening just now

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Not just the voters, but the media too.

The Russians and Mercers and Trumps saw an opening: The profit motive of the media to turn everything into a horse-race by always attacking the frontrunner and boosting underdogs.

[Roy Rolling]

10. That's the bottom line

The election was a perfect storm of too much money in politics, free media coverage to stoke the masses, and one side willing to collide with Russia to win at all costs.

The cost is Robert Mueller, and those who are guilty will soon pay the price with indictments.

Yeah, it's fucked up. But sheep will be sheep, and government's job is to be enough of a referee to keep them from being eaten by the wolves.

[BlueMTexpat]

11. I cannot K&R this enough.

etc.

[mountain grammy]

13. K & R for the truth!

[L. Coyote]

14. How much cash was slipped to the media to create the Trump storm?

I bet the corruption of the media runs into millions and millions in payoffs.

[UCmeNdc]

15. K&R

[PDittie]

16. So what do Democrats do about it now?

Keep litigating the 2016 primary (despite this site's clear objection to doing so)?

Keep blaming the Russians/James Comey/the media/third-party voters/non-voters/electronic voting machines?

Buy Hillary's book? Donate more money to Democrats who haven't come out in support of single-payer just yet, or those who might be willing to compromise on a woman's right to choose?

Frankly, none of these things seem to be the key to winning in 2018 or even 2020. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

[Hekate]

20. Yes, you are missing something

[TheMastersNemesis]

27. Everything Including The Media Put Hillary On Her One 5 Yd Line/Tromp On Her 5 Yd Line.

Everything was stacked against Hillary and the Democrats if you examine closely what the GOP was doing. They have voter suppressed and gerrymandered aggressively since 2009. And they have the Russian government behind them, the media.

[ananda]

17. 45 made FAR worse "mistakes."

nt

[treestar]

59. +1

It hardly seems even like "mistakes" matter. 45 violated every common understanding of campaigning. He was just lucky. In fact, it is so strange how he got just enough in the swing states and in every one. It was pure luck in terms of who voted in swing states.

[Perseus]

18. Please tell us how you feel :)

You are 100% correct, the media knows it but for some unknown reason (money???) they continue on their crooked path. The sad thing is that your last comment is so true, and Trump knows it, that is why he made the 5th ave comment.

"When the Last Tree Is Cut Down, the Last Fish Eaten, and the Last Stream Poisoned, You Will Realize That You Cannot Eat Money."
~~ Alanis Obomsawin

[AHardRainsAGonnaFall]

19. K&R It's only getting worse every day.

Idiocracy has been building for a long time. Now it's here and the oligarchy intends to keep it that way.

[Hekate]

21. KnR

[judesedit]

22. Third world countries know how to void a fraudulent election but America cannot??????

Something way way wrong with this picture
We apparently didn't learn after Bush implementation we suffered through.

[Voltaire2]

24. we have a process: certification of the results of the electoral college.

We failed to exercise the option to discard the election as fraudulent.

[Voltaire2]

23. We do not know that it was stolen.

We have a lot of evidence that Russia promoted Trump. That does not equate to a "stolen election" and unless there is evidence of actual collusion this isn't a crime, and until the investigation is complete we just don't know,

We also do not "know" that "key states were stolen with voter suppression, uncounted ballots and racist gerrymandering ".
Even if suppression and gerrymandering and uncounted ballots were the tipping point, the first two simply aren't illegal, unfortunately, and thus do not constitute theft or fraud. That leaves "uncounted ballots". I don't think you can make the case that uncounted ballots were the decisive factor.

You do actually see the forest for the trees here: "THE ELECTION IS FUCKING FAILURE OF THE AMERICAN VOTER." that is the problem we have to fix. Russian trolling on twitter and facebook is not. There is no way we are going to have a first amendment and free political speech and stop foreign governments from pushing their views. We have to fix our broken voters. If we do that the Republican Party is toast.

[broadcaster90210]

34. Could not disagree more.

We have certajnly enough preponderance of the evidence and that is all that is required. Beyond a reasonable doubt is debateable, but I am now at the stage where I need evidence it wasn't rigged and stolen.

[TheFrenchRazor]

45. we don't know that it WASN'T, given invisible ballots, proprietary software, and no public access to

access to the evidence that it would be necessary to examine in order to prove that it either was or was not stolen. some of us consider that to be a problem, in and of itself.

[Voltaire2]

65. Yes sure we don't know it wasn't either.

But that was not the claim I responded to.

[treestar]

61. I agree with this

People are not forced to listen to right wing radio and FAUX. They could take it seriously rather than treating it as entertainment. They could respond to campaigns that don't cost so much money. They could participate rather than declaring themselves above it all. (you know the type that does not vote because it's all not good enough for them and they hate all politics/politicians).

[certainot]

25. there is also a complete lack of acknowledgement that

rw radio has been a dominant force in media and politics

here's some simple math:

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 5 = $75,000/wk x 1200 stations rw talk radio is worth $18MIL/day or 390MIL$ /month or 4.68 BIL$/ year FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican free market deregulation and wall st think tank propaganda, swiftboating, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.

even though most of the russian trolling piggybacked years of talk radio and trump's guy admitted they studied talk radio in 2014 dems continue to study fish without water - we don't even poll for it

[Ligyron]

44. Once again you're right.

Yet little is done about it other than the Flush Rush campaign.

[Gothmog]

28. K&R

[LuckyLib]

31. True. Combined with endemic women-hating in this country, and millions who would rather sit on

their asses watching "The Bachelorette" than exercise their right to vote.

[Raastan]

32. K + R

[broadcaster90210]

33. No argument here.

Which means, among other things, every 5-4 SCOTUS decision in which Gorsuch is in the majority is an illigitimate decision and should be without the force of law or precedent.

[Dot L]

35. 2016 Election F***ing Failure

It sure would have been nice if Hilary would have picked up Jill Stein's recount efforts on key states, after the judge ruled Jill didn't have standing in this case for a recount. A recount could have brought needed attention to Kansas' Kris Kobach's Interstate Crosscheck that have disenfranchising millions. Although, the media seems to be silent on how Interstate Crosscheck is the New Jim Crow! We don't have a Liberal Media, we have a Corporate Media that's only concern is the almighty dollar, that only keep the public informed about what they can make money off of.

Too bad the Fairness Doctrine or something similar wasn't reinstated when the Dems controlled the House & Senate. Guess having a President not in favor of re-stating this might be why.

One has to wonder if the Democrats wanted to lose???

[murielm99]

38. Stein helped 45 win the election.

What happened to all the money Stein raised for that recount? Have you seen the picture of Stein sitting with Flynn and Putin at the RT dinner?

Stein is not a Democrat. She has not been elected to anything. She is persona non grata as far as I am concerned, and any mention of her name in a positive light is ridiculous. She is not even doing anything to build a green party. She could do that, if she was sincere. I still would not vote for her, but she shows up to be elected every few years, just to be a spoiler. That is all she does.

[Hekate]

50. Wow, two whole posts and this is what you choose to vent on?

You managed to get a lotta Dem-bashing into a short space. Catch up with the TOS fast -- or enjoy your stay, Dot L.

[Mike Nelson]

41. Every compaign...

...makes mistakes, even the successful ones. With a small difference in the Electoral College tally, people would be talking about how a woman overcame huge odds in a "change" year, beat Bernie and Trump, and made a woman the most powerful leader on the planet.

[calimary]

42. THIS, dammit!

That and the well-planned and coordinated character assassination, spreading all those lies and stupid-ass conspiracy theories, and the bots and very willing followers of other opponents who were happy to spread the dirty work. 😡

[barbtries]

49. decades,

DECADES of propaganda. eventually propaganda becomes common wisdom when it's catapulted enough by enough people and consistently. Hillary as it turns out is so much better than that. and yes she made mistakes. who hasn't?!

[drmeow]

43. She won the f**king popular vote!

Even with the Russian meddling and Comey and everything else, if it wasn't for a system which entrenches white power, she would be our President today. The only reason the fraud and theft worked is because the Founding Fathers deliberately gave small states more power than they deserve.

I am SO SICK AND TIRED of the failure to acknowledge that the used diaper currently in the White House didn't really win the vote - he won the states.

[barbtries]

48. keep putting it forth nonetheless,

especially the next time some asswipe wanker says, you lost, get over it.

[barbtries]

47. yep, it's a damn shame.

i get hope, then i lose hope, then 2 republicans swing big to the democrat, then trump gives a press conference or bannon for fuck's sake is interviewed on 60 minutes (excuse me the man's a fucking nazi! aargh)....

i am still thankful for DU. been here since the gw days and looking back it's like, what was i bitching about? NOW i feel as if our democracy is truly at risk. and knowing that less than a century ago, it got even worse after starting kinda like this...well i can't give up to despair and hopelessness. i have grandchildren and someday they will have grandchildren of their own. need to save this place for them and all the generations after

[2naSalit]

51. F'in' A right, Ralph!

K&R

[bucolic_frolic]

52. The Supreme Court Seat was STOLEN too!

This is what elites do when they fear too much democracy is breaking out. They suppress the influence of the masses at "choke points". It's been consistent throughout US History.

[riderinthestorm]

53. Agreed 100% nt

[tonyt53]

54. Yes she did. No, it wasn't. What exactly do we really know?

Hillary lost because people stayed home ad didn't vote AND some voters voted for a third party candidate knowing that their vote would amount to a vote for trump. My contention is that there are too many truly uninformed voters that have no clue as tot he real value of a vote.

[Squinch]

56. I like this OP, but I'd like it better if it didn't open with "sure she made mistakes."

Every candidate who ever ran made mistakes. She is the only one where people feel the need to point out that she made mistakes out every time they mention the election.

[tomp]

57. I believe Hillary won.

When exit polls don't match final reported tallies there is a problem. Then there are all the other things you mentioned.

Edit: p.s.: she has this in common with gore and kerry. Why the democrats are not more concerned with election security is so mysterious as to be suspicious.

[Achilleaze]

60. Republican traitors and Russian trolls stole American democracy

From the American people. And the Republican Party let them do it

[heaven05]

63. ++

with putin vote tampering/hacking being a real possibilty thrown in for good measure.

[Chasstev365]

64. Agreed! Then why is she still blaming Bernie?

[Voltaire2]

66. That's different.

[Still In Wisconsin]

68. Show me a candidate- from any party- who has ever run a perfect campaign...

there has never been one. Hillary did great, and I say this as a Bernie Sanders primary voter.

[Sparkly]

69. "TOO MANY WHITE RACISTS"

Don't overlook the sexists.

SERIOUSLY.

It's the root of a whole lot of problems, historically through now.

[Kentonio]

72. This thread (the replies not the op) sum up what I hate about this place.

You know why we want to discuss her mistakes in the campaign? Because those are the areas that we can practically learn from, and ensure that for future elections we avoid making the same mistakes again. It's what we do after every lost election (and should do after every winning one), and it doesn't have one single fucking thing to do with Hillary being a woman, or right wing talking points, or whatever ridiculous shit people want to throw out there.

We want to win elections, and to win elections you have to constantly learn, improve and ensure that you do every damn thing you can to pull in every voter possible. We lost a presidential election in 2000 by 537 goddamn votes, we just lost another election by getting 3 million more but in the wrong places, yet some of you would rather sit there and spend 12 months talking about how amazing about our losing candidate is rather than accept it was a badly run campaign and make sure we never run another one like it.

Yet some of you have the barefaced fucking cheek to post endless threads about how the greens or the progressive left are to blame for our problems. Grow the hell up, stop acting like politicians are angelic heroes who need you to defend them and lets try and actually start winning elections again instead of throwing them away to a bunch of fucking fascists on the right who have become a ridiculous parody of themselves yet still managed to kick our asses in November.

You know what Comey and Russian collusion have in common? You can't do a single goddamn thing about either of them, or indeed about voter suppression and the rest of it. The only power you have is to organize and try and help Democrats get elected, and if you waste that energy focusing on what you can't change, then you're part of the problem not the solution. Especially if you're spending that energy on stupid divisive bullshit that only serves to stroke your particular cliques egos.

[onetexan]

73. You're absolutely right

this is why we cannot let this banana republic be the new norm.

[TheMastersNemesis]

74. You Can Organize All You Want. But If The System Is Gamed You Have To Attack -------

the perpetrators and push back any way you can. HOW MANY GOD DAMNED VOTERS DO YOU HAVE TO WIN BY. Hillary wont by almost 3 million votes. Trump only won key states by just 10's of thousands. The Democrats in Congress had more than half a million votes.

If you gerrymander the maps and isolate voters and you deny voting to millions you could have a 10% margin and lose. Yes you must organize and get people to vote. But if you look at how many voters were purged over all the amount is staggering. The " fake fraud" commission plans to make the situation much much worse.

The god damned election was a complete fraud. And we must deal with that issue as well. In the end just organizing voters may not really be enough.