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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHillary Clinton: It was "intervention by Comey"
Hillary Clinton says Comey was 'the determining factor' in 2016 loss
Dylan Stableford
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-says-comey-determining-factor-2016-loss-141046705.html
In the book, Clinton places blame for her loss on many factors, including the Russian intervention, Bernie Sanders, the media, Donald Trumps reality show-like run and her own campaign.
But on Today, Clinton was unequivocal in assessment.
I think the determining factor was the intervention by Comey, she said. Absent that, I believe and I think the evidence shows, I would have won.
Did you make enough mistakes yourself to lose the election without any of the other things you talk about? NBCs Matt Lauer asked. I will say no, Clinton replied.
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I think her analysis is 100% accurate regarding Comey-- she would have won comfortably in the Electoral College, and several Democrats would probably be Senators today who aren't, if it wasn't for Comey's last minute interference. Hillary ran a solid campaign that emphasized her strengths and downplayed her weaknesses, but there was really nothing she or anyone else could do about Comey.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)correct.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)In fact, every election that was close, means almost anything could have made the difference.
In HRC's case, consider something not her fault at all. Had she not gotten pneumonia, there would not have been that essentially negative story (ranging from raising health concerns to images of HRC almost collapsing to taking "too long" to satisfy everyone in explaining what happened) and it likely might have caused her to prudently cut back on her personal appearnces. This was pure bad luck. Also, someone on her staff likely wrote that "basket of deplorable" line - imagine if someone had red flagged it and she did not give Trump that gift, that rallied many to Trump who might have not voted for him. (consider she was targeting women - including those married to many, who even if they were not who she meant by deplorable, saw themselves labeled thusly.)
This is not an attack on HRC. Imagine that someone in Ohio had identified that fewer voting machines allocated to Democratic strongholds a few weeks before the election and challenged it. The number of votes lost by people who had to abandon the effort to vote because they could not stand in 4 hour plus lines because of work or family is unknowable, but likely enough to move Ohio to Kerry's column. Not to mention, if the unusually patient and polite Kerry had simply said - "I just answered that, next question" - rather than saying that he just explained his votes - and that he had "voted for it before he voted against it" -- or if he had answered with his more careful response - maybe appreviated to say he voted for a version of the funding that rolled back future tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% because they were no longer affordable with the costs of the war and then made a protest vote against the Bush approved version that added the cost to the deficit and the debt. That original answer was actually quite good. We all know what happened with the second answer he gave rather than just cutting the questioner off. Not to mention, the media and many important people in the party pushed him to pick Edwards, who had received undeservedly positive press in the primaries. In teh general election, he was a prima donna, promised to do things and then didn't and essentially acted as if he would almost prefer losing 2004 and setting himself up for 2008. Kerry was said to have not been impressed with Edwards, preferring Durbin or Gephardt, both of whom would have been better advocates and had ties in the rust belt. Here, Kerry should have gone with his own gut, though the media had already set up a negative narritive that suggested that if Kerry did not pick him it was because he thought Edwards (who lost to him by far more than Bernie did to HRC) would outshine him.
With Gore, imagine if when a FL county found that the felon list had major problems - when someone found her own husband (not a felon) on the list had not just refused to use the list, but took the problem to the Clinton justice department. Now, the Clinton/Gore administration would have had to deal with this carefully, but remember that claims that it was political were easily countered. The Secretary of State was high in the Bush campaign and the governor was Jebb ... and the company that produced the list was tied to Republicans and was from Texas. I know that Gore really won -- but those lost votes, almost all of AAs were mostly for Gore. Not to mention there are many many reasons this should have been dealt with for reasons of racial justice.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)and served as a rallying cry and motivator to Trump voters - you can denigrate your opponent but
if you attack their supporters you make them more likely to show up to vote.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Had he not interfered she would have blown Trump out. And that is before we even take the July press conference into account.
SunSeeker
(51,508 posts)Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)It's understandable for her personally. But it doesn't help one bit what the reasons were for her loss in terms of rescuing our country from Trump.
All she can do is turn herself into a sympathetic figure. We have a different job and empathy for Hillary, no matter how strong or sincere, won't matter at all.
We should be concentrating on what we can do to get our country back. Hillary is the past. We need the future.
oasis
(49,323 posts)Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)It is interesting, to be sure. But it accomplishes nothing.
oasis
(49,323 posts)by Hillary's "truth crusade". After 40+ years of public service, Hillary has earned the right to speak up and speak out as long as she desires.
ismnotwasm
(41,965 posts)I disagree
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)Nothing
JHan
(10,173 posts)Lessons to be learned:
The impact of voter suppression.
The impact of information war tactics rendering traditional politics obsolete.
The cultural signifiers that had people rationalizing voting for a piece of shit President ( which would include all the ugly isms).
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)We know he said he was "mildly nauseous" for helping Trump get elected - and Trump fired him in return - but James Comey is a modern day Benedict Arnold, a name that should make all of us severely nauseous.
He used his authority and position to change the outcome of our presidential election!
How is this not considered one of the most astounding and outrageous acts in political history?
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)Preventing a repeat of what Comey did would be important. To that extent I agree that what Hillary has to say about it is something that should be considered. But otherwise, having another postmortem of the election 10 months after the fact is something that is not likely to help us with future elections.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)"Oh, well, we need to pick a better candidate" when each and every scenario Hillary endured is still in place?
Innuendo and unequal treatment benefitting one candidate on the part of the chief law-enforcement officer of the nation?
Malignant interference from a foreign adversarial government to influence the outcome of our election for a more "favorable" candidate, not to mention aspects of cyber warfare?
Corporate media driven by ratings and political narrative - for profit - demonstrably attacking a single candidate?
A second election delivered by a manipulated Constitutional fluke that overturns the will of the people?
The "normalcy" of rejecting women in leadership roles that is a core outcome of American institutions at every level?
To paraphrase: If we don't realize what happened, we are doomed to repeat it.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)"Benedict Arnold" is synonymous with the word "traitor."
Any idea what he did or what happened to him? Not without google, of course.
James Comey needs to be held accountable in this fashion.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"But it doesn't help one bit what the reasons were for her loss..."
Many people believe that analysis and discussion of recent history is no real help; yet they never give a cogent or valid reason why they support that premise.
I'm guessing it's just a placeholder until they find something more substantive to rationalize their biases with.
delisen
(6,042 posts)Sympathy and empathy for an individual have little to do with it.
We won't get our country back until we know how we lost it, to whom we lost it, and why.
Actually we are never going to get that particular country back.
Clinton is going to be one of the people shaping our future.
Justice
(7,185 posts)It's vital to look at the reasons for her loss in terms of rescuing our country from Trump. Particularly now, when the evidence re Russia is coming out - Hillary said many of these things during the campaign but people/media didn't listen.
"All she can do is turn herself into a sympathetic figure."
Hillary is not interested in being a sympathetic figure - she is interested in the truth of what happened.
I for one agree with her. We are getting to the future without understanding the past. We can't just look forward, as that sweeps everything under the rug.
FarPoint
(12,287 posts)Media and Reporters Never truly held tRump accountable for his abuse...They chose to use the abuse acts as a ratings source.... normalize the candidate ...attack and hold the woman to a greater standard....
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The lame attempt to correct it just wasn't enough. It shouldn't have been that close and there were other factors, but Comey was the immediate cause of Clinton's loss.
FarPoint
(12,287 posts)No Special Breaking News ....it's how he presented the issue to American voters .... awful...Made it as important as some terrorist attack....
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)had not been released the Friday before the election.
It brought enough voters back to the irrational fear that Democrats supposedly weren't tough enough to handle some imagined terrorists threat.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)And she would have been blowing him out completely had it not been for his July press conference.
sprinkleeninow
(20,212 posts)were fearful that it was pretty clear at one point nearing the election that HRC would win the presidency.
Enough were VOCAL on this.
Then, kaboom. Comey.
To our household, it seemed a sick joke and dirty trick that she did not become '45'!
leftstreet
(36,097 posts)Hard to believe she and the DNC went into this not knowing that
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)...I believe the underlying, always present, years of manufactured Hillary hate set the tone and stage for all the other factors. There are literally industries and careers built on the bedrock of manufactured Hillary hate. The Hillary hate allowed all the other factors to foment and be congealed into a toxic electoral soup.
That said, I believe the Russian interventions in its various fashions and forms --some of which we don't even know of today-- would be the first and most important factor. And even though most would discount and deny, there is always the possibility that in certain precincts and jurisdictions, the actual vote tallies may have been tampered with. We just don't know. And unfortunately, it appears that the Republicans in Congress have no desire to ascertain just how damaging the Russian interference may have been.
The second factor, I believe, was Comey's undue interference in the election, which may have moved the needle just enough for certain undecideds to change the course of the election. Comey's comment that he is "mildly nauseous" to think he may have affected the election is understated indeed. Comey should still be hunched over a toilet puking his guts out.
And I STRONGLY AGREE that Hillary Clinton should be talking about this and most definitely deserves to be heard, and EVERYONE should be listening. This will happen again. I believe with all of my heart that the actual, real and bonafide first female President of the United States was out-and-out robbed. I believe that many in the Republican party are complicit and know they had their nefarious part to play.
And finally, Hillary Clinton should be allowed to work through and come to terms with probably what was the greatest disappointment of her life. I hope Hillary Clinton rises from the ashes and becomes a dynamic, outspoken leader in the resistance.
Johonny
(20,818 posts)as the central topic of her campaign. They beat that dead horse waiting for the big reveal to make it live, if only for 3 days or so, before dying again. That all worked because of the constant negative tone of the press. They treated this as a real story while simply ignoring the many, many Trump negatives.
Cosmocat
(14,558 posts)that is now I describe it.
Not that she was personally brittle.
But, the public opinion of her, because of decades of right wing hate framing, took very quick and deep dives when she was running when Rs managed to find mud that somehow would stick to her.
I have a LOT of liberal friends who don't like or hate her. They really can't say why when I ask them, nothing real substantive.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)There was a dramatic change in the polling after his announcement. And post-election polling confirms that he had an enormous impact.
tavernier
(12,368 posts)After he French kissed trump in his interview, pre-election???
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Comey turned a narrow victory into a narrow defeat.
This is ridiculous. Comey completely turned the race upside down. His actions dramatically reshaped where the candidates stood. Before he did that HRC was getting ready to crush Trump. And that was even after Comey's July press conference.
sprinkleeninow
(20,212 posts)Cosmocat
(14,558 posts)The July press conference took a LOT of air out of her when 45 was flailing and she was doing pretty well. It reset the race to almost neck and neck.
She managed to get a little air through September, enough to probably win, but the letter cut her knees out.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)by a decisive margin. The Comey letter completely reshaped the race.
But I agree, the July press conference was devastating in its own right.
It is so ridiculous that the media is relentless in declaring that the race was won by Trump because he ran a better campaign and he was preferred on economic issues. This is total nonsense. Trump ran the worst campaign in history--hands down--but he won anyway. And the blame for that lies with Comey and his illegitimate tactics at the FBI.
andym
(5,443 posts)Hillary was on track for a big victory until Comey sent his letter. Afterwards, it was literally a toss-up in the electoral college. Nate Silver had a good analysis a few months ago of the impact of the letter, which I will try to add to the discussion.