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babylonsister

(171,656 posts)
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:47 PM Sep 2017

"IT'S NOT ABOUT BERNIE, IT'S ABOUT US!"

From my friend Bruce XXXXXXX
6 hrs ·


I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent liberal, and have been since the day I first registered to vote. I posited a hypothetical question yesterday on Facebook; Shouldn't we as liberals, at least listen to what's in Bernie Sanders latest iteration of Medicare for all?
.
You'd think I got busted sneaking out of Ann Coulter's boudoir. Right out of the gate, it was about Sanders himself. Then the tide shifted, and the Hillary haters came out of the woodwork. By the time I left for work, the thread looked like a Wes Craven flick of liberals attacking liberals.
.
I get it, some folks hold Bernie Sanders responsible for Hillary's defeat. And some folks insist Hillary's candidacy is why we wound up with Trump. GROW UP! It's been a year. It's over! Neither Hillary nor Bernie were perfect, but either would have been better than the monster we ended up with. I ENTHUSIASTICALLY supported and voted for Hillary Clinton last year, but had Sanders won the nod, I'd have done likewise for him. What pains me, is how so many folks obsess over personality rather than policy, and they blame that person for everything. Like the fifty-five year old guy at a party who pulls out a picture of his wife who left him 25 years ago, and drones on about how she's responsible for his drinking problem.
.
IT'S

NOT

ABOUT

BERNIE,

IT'S

ABOUT

US!
.
Had anybody but Sanders introduced that bill yesterday, it wouldn't have been an issue. In fact, we'd have all welcomed it, if not applauded it. But no, some folks just had to drag the past into it, and the conversation veered into the gutter. It was shameful!
.
Early yesterday morning, 6 Senate Democrats had announced they'd co-sponsor Sanders' bill. Do you know how many had signed on by the end of the day? 16! That's one in three sitting United States Democratic Senators. Probably only one of whom, Jeff Merkley, endorsed Bernie Sanders last year. The rest all endorsed Hillary Clinton.
.
And yet, they were capable of seeing beyond their differences, forgetting for the moment the antipathy of last year for an opportunity to make a symbolic but IMPORTANT statement. That the American healthcare system needs to be revamped.

.
Of course, this new bill is dead on arrival. Nothing of this nature will make it into or out of committee—it's just too progressive for our pals across the aisle. Perish the thought, we'd actually cut corporate interests out of the system. The point of it, which was lost on so many of you, is that with each new attempt, it drives the ball one yard further towards the end zone. Yesterday, 16 Senators co-sponsored it. Next year maybe it'll be 18. And if the Democrats ever get their shit together long enough to retake Congress, they just might have a majority... and then... THEN we'll be able to put the Big Pharma lobby, the insurance industry, and all the other factors that have brought us to where we are today in check. And nobody in America will go bankrupt just because they woke up one day with cancer.
.
Novel concept, huh? What really nauseated me yesterday, was the cult of personality. Bernie this, Hillary that, and how so many of the comments were about these candidates, rather than their policies. I do not GET IT!!
.
There's only one personality that makes me retch at his very sight, and that's Donald Trump. Yet even there, Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer have been making progress. And isn't that the whole point of being a PROGRESSIVE?
.
Bury the hatchet Bernie/Hillary haters. Your hatred benefits only the Republicans. Again, I'm not even a Democrat, though I've ALWAYS voted for the Democratic candidate. But that little display of internecine warfare yesterday makes me worry for our future. You're our best hope. Don't blow it.


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"IT'S NOT ABOUT BERNIE, IT'S ABOUT US!" (Original Post) babylonsister Sep 2017 OP
Recommended. Right on target. eom guillaumeb Sep 2017 #1
Ditto! burrowowl Sep 2017 #68
Thanks for posting this!! BigBearJohn Sep 2017 #2
B.S. brucie, If it wasn't, then why heaven05 Sep 2017 #3
This post helps Russia's position. ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #5
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #13
Yep. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #32
You represent what the post was about.missing the point onit2day Sep 2017 #33
"Bernie Bros" got played? Roy Rolling Sep 2017 #39
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #40
this post helps Russia ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #41
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #45
How? The Wielding Truth Sep 2017 #54
Poor Comrade Melanctha! QC Sep 2017 #58
You think that they didn't exist? ehrnst Sep 2017 #79
Well said. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2017 #44
bam!!!!!!!!!!!!! heaven05 Sep 2017 #53
russia has already heaven05 Sep 2017 #19
The woman protests too much I guess. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #20
Not as much as bashing Democrats for decades. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #26
The O.P isn't a hit piece left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #6
Just tell Bernie DownriverDem Sep 2017 #15
Sarcasm right? tecelote Sep 2017 #16
Apparently the Dem primaries are open to him left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #21
I have contacted the DNC about this. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #27
this post helps Russia ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #42
PERFECT RESPONSE RandomAccess Sep 2017 #55
please do ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #74
Failing to learn from 2016 helps Russia. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #80
Silencing discussion also helps Russia. Ninsianna Sep 2017 #100
Not this kind of discussion ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #107
You'll have to take it up with the DNC Bradical79 Sep 2017 #43
It's what the trolls do, attack Bernie or Hillary and watch onit2day Sep 2017 #35
Yes. So many fall for it every time... LakeArenal Sep 2017 #37
Hear, hear! smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #109
Then go post on IndependentUnderground.com moda253 Sep 2017 #65
ouch-ouch-ouch left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #76
+1000 Trust Buster Sep 2017 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #10
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #11
It is only a "hit piece" in the sense that.... concreteblue Sep 2017 #22
Thank you. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #25
Something is very wrong with your perceptions onit2day Sep 2017 #38
oh really heaven05 Sep 2017 #51
K & R Duppers Sep 2017 #4
One righteous rant. K&R... N_E_1 for Tennis Sep 2017 #7
I do think, however, that we should ramp up exposing and ending all of the voter suppression diva77 Sep 2017 #8
YES +1000 Dem_4_Life Sep 2017 #12
It is about us... DownriverDem Sep 2017 #14
Until then, it's all about Bernie. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #34
Do any of you have any concern for the thousands who are about to lose their health care? Many will Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #103
Dems should introduce bills for everything on our platform. Delmette2.0 Sep 2017 #17
This 100% CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #78
Be sure to inform the folks at your meetings about the new Child Care for Working Families Act DesertRat Sep 2017 #83
Yes, we need to let our Senators know when we like what they do! Delmette2.0 Sep 2017 #85
That was brought up this week CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #88
Great! The new Child Care legislation was introduced yesterday DesertRat Sep 2017 #93
Single payer was introduced last January lapucelle Sep 2017 #98
We were talking about something else, not SP CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #101
"That was brought up this week, but lapucelle Sep 2017 #108
Well... CherokeeFiddle Sep 2017 #113
Our Dems in Congress need to hear from us... Delmette2.0 Sep 2017 #87
Democrats dont do anything? They only react? Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #89
And Medicare for All legislation has FINALLY been introduced! lapucelle Sep 2017 #110
And variations of that by the Dingell family (father, son, and now wife) since 1943 - 74 years!!!! George II Sep 2017 #111
You're going to local DNC meetings lapucelle Sep 2017 #97
+++++++++ sheshe2 Sep 2017 #105
Where are those local meetings? I was at a local meeting just last night.... George II Sep 2017 #104
++++++++++++ sheshe2 Sep 2017 #106
Yuppers! denbot Sep 2017 #18
Nope, I disagree with him completely. Lee Adama Sep 2017 #23
Join the Democratic Party, Bernie, murielm99 Sep 2017 #24
When Sanders stops bashing Democrats and joins the party, I will believe this. ehrnst Sep 2017 #28
If it weren't about Bernie, we would hear about the issue rather than Bernie BainsBane Sep 2017 #29
I wish I could rec this. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #31
Well said!!! nt Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #48
K&R stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #75
yes... Beantighe Sep 2017 #84
"People make it about Bernie because the goal is to advance Bernie." LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #95
Democrat John Conyers has been introducing a Medicare for All bill lapucelle Sep 2017 #99
I think most Democrats know about Conyers efforts and appreciate them LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #114
Conyers introduced the bill in January 2017, for the 8th time. lapucelle Sep 2017 #117
++++ sheshe2 Sep 2017 #112
++plus a million. R B Garr Sep 2017 #116
Methinks the subject line doth protest too much...(nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #30
K&R, excellent OP! dae Sep 2017 #36
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #46
100% agree! PatsFan87 Sep 2017 #47
What do you mean by Hillary haters? Trumpocalypse Sep 2017 #49
IT'S ABOUT CAPITAL LETTERS SCantiGOP Sep 2017 #50
Frankly I'm just glad Bernie's becoming a Do-er. JNelson6563 Sep 2017 #52
Feel Better after Anger Release? delisen Sep 2017 #56
So, you are judging Bernie by the content of posts on DU???? concreteblue Sep 2017 #59
My post references the marketing of Sanders delisen Sep 2017 #61
I apologize if I somehow misread your post concreteblue Sep 2017 #69
About Bernie Progressive2020 Sep 2017 #60
if bruce always votes dem then why is he registered as an independent? Mosby Sep 2017 #62
Really? ProfessorGAC Sep 2017 #70
"Independent" doesn't mean "Undecided." Beartracks Sep 2017 #73
A lot *IS* about Bernie. "I'm not even a Democrat" pretty much sums it up. UTUSN Sep 2017 #63
Amen. San Diego's 3 Democrats have NOT supported Bernie's Medicare for All but should. Liberty Belle Sep 2017 #64
Just vote Democratic and be united. Don't care what type kerry-is-my-prez Sep 2017 #66
We cannot be two Parties. kentuck Sep 2017 #67
Thank you for speaking the truth randr Sep 2017 #71
thank you. Joe941 Sep 2017 #72
looks like the JPR types are back on DU..... stonecutter357 Sep 2017 #77
Yep. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #81
Russian divisive activities in this country are alive and well. Just sayin'. TryLogic Sep 2017 #82
I think bernie has got it right on health care- universal single payer health care for everyone! VaBchTgerLily Sep 2017 #86
"personality rather than policy" Martin Eden Sep 2017 #90
Yep. Bernie isn't running for president again. Neither is Hillary. Orsino Sep 2017 #91
Progressive websites like... mudstump Sep 2017 #92
K&R!!! Dustlawyer Sep 2017 #94
Then stop attributing everything to him. Adrahil Sep 2017 #96
I heard on MSNBC that the GOP now have the votes to repeal the ACA...while Sen. Sanders and others Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #102
Yeah, I even heard Graham on an AMJoy clip today lumping the two together, as in R B Garr Sep 2017 #115
I don't think I will ever get over this...it was so foolish to do this...the ACA should have been Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #118
Yup, and Graham knows it, too, which is why he called out Bernie like he did. R B Garr Sep 2017 #119
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
3. B.S. brucie, If it wasn't, then why
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:03 PM
Sep 2017

the continued attacks on democrats with 'hit' pieces like this? The 'past' is still ongoing...perpetuated by many....I agree it is about us, but many whiners from the primaries and their lost cause are still not about "us". When we all truly are about defeating thee RW racists and white supremacists ruling our land, I'm on board, until then ....no, just looking forward to democratic Party victories in 2018-20. Independents have tried to make themselves more than they are, a MINORITY WING under the umbrella of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, NOT AN INDEPENDENT-DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #5)

 

onit2day

(1,201 posts)
33. You represent what the post was about.missing the point
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:25 PM
Sep 2017

Stop with the labels and remember principles before personalities. Focus on policy not attacking the messenger. Health care is a right no matter who introduces the policy. You're comment is not justified and detrimental to the conversation all due to your prejudice. Bernie is great, Hillary is great. Get over it and go read the details of Bernie's 'introductory' bill, especially the tax on employers to replace them having to pay for employees health care ins.. 6.5% but that's just a starting figure, not theater.

Roy Rolling

(7,189 posts)
39. "Bernie Bros" got played?
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:44 PM
Sep 2017

Bernie Bros were a propaganda invention. By attacking a group infiltrated and trolled by Russian operatives it splits liberals/Democrats/progressives/Hillary supporters. Please consider. Thanks.

Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #39)

Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #41)

QC

(26,371 posts)
58. Poor Comrade Melanctha!
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 08:07 PM
Sep 2017

I hope her poor performance here does not result in trip to re-education facility.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
79. You think that they didn't exist?
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:46 AM
Sep 2017

My experience on social media was far different than yours, apparently.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
19. russia has already
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:52 PM
Sep 2017

been helped by many, many non votes for HRC and easily hackable voting machines...look at what we got/have as a potus .No my post has nothing to do with helping someone or some who are an enemy of the state.

Eliot Rosewater

(32,537 posts)
20. The woman protests too much I guess.
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:56 PM
Sep 2017

Or is it persists, either way, why doesnt she just shut up, right?

I mean, yeah...



no, GOD DAMMIT to anybody else reading this I am NOT suggesting she shut up, I hope she NEVER shuts up

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
6. The O.P isn't a hit piece
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:12 PM
Sep 2017

It's "get over it and move on".

A lot of us are tired of the daily attacks on Bernie when time is getting short to 2018 and 2020.
We need to stop looking back and look to the upcoming elections.

I'm beginning to wonder if the GOP/Russians are behind the dissension?

DownriverDem

(6,667 posts)
15. Just tell Bernie
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:40 PM
Sep 2017

to join the Dem Party if he intends to run in the Dem Party primaries. I am tired of folks not getting this point.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
55. PERFECT RESPONSE
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:41 PM
Sep 2017

And I'm going to borrow it for all kinds of future use -- but especially these pointless, infantile, beating-a-dead-horse Bernie v Hillary arguments.

Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #42)

LakeArenal

(29,840 posts)
37. Yes. So many fall for it every time...
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:35 PM
Sep 2017

Someone above said it best for me: Hillary is great. Sanders is great.

Let's move on and win the 2018 votes with the help from Both of them...

If Bernie is the theater, then look past him for the substance. 16 other important Dems can...

Response to heaven05 (Reply #3)

Response to Name removed (Reply #10)

concreteblue

(626 posts)
22. It is only a "hit piece" in the sense that....
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:07 PM
Sep 2017

"Throw a rock over a fence, the dog that holler's the one you hit".

The OP is exactly right. A couple of points: to whoever thinks Bernie is not "doing the work" for the Democratic Party, you are entitled to absolutely zero of the registered dems who registered because of Bernie.
AND, this absolutely plays into Republican and Russian hands. Don't be a tool....
That being said, I am sure the ACA will cover some sort of medication from that rock bruise.....

 

onit2day

(1,201 posts)
38. Something is very wrong with your perceptions
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:36 PM
Sep 2017

You don't have to be a democrat to vote democratic. You don't need to be a democrat to influence the democratic party. Label yourself as you please but our progressive democratic principles really are unaffected by such labels.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
51. oh really
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:35 PM
Sep 2017

I know what so-called "progressive democratic principles"...did affect and that is without a doubt...."labels" has nothing to do with unassailable truth.

diva77

(7,880 posts)
8. I do think, however, that we should ramp up exposing and ending all of the voter suppression
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:19 PM
Sep 2017

tactics that the rethugs have been getting away with, and which resulted in the theft of the 2016 election: end use of computerized voting and tabulating; end gerrymandering; end Crosscheck and Kobach-check, voter ID laws, etc.

DownriverDem

(6,667 posts)
14. It is about us...
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:38 PM
Sep 2017

However, if Bernie intends to run as a Dem again, I sure as hell hopes he joins the Dem Party sooner rather than later. He tried to get his voters to support her after he & they blasted her for months. That was the problem then and it will be the problem again if he doesn't join the Dem Party way ahead of time.

Demsrule86

(71,033 posts)
103. Do any of you have any concern for the thousands who are about to lose their health care? Many will
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 08:21 PM
Sep 2017

die. Yep, while the Senators played single payer...it appears the GOP got the votes for repeal...McCain is on board and money stolen from blue states will pay off the others...good job.

Delmette2.0

(4,264 posts)
17. Dems should introduce bills for everything on our platform.
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:51 PM
Sep 2017

Granted they will be shot down by the R's, but we will have the upper hand in 2018. We can point to each and every issue and truthfully say we tried to help you and the R's said NO.

 

CherokeeFiddle

(297 posts)
78. This 100%
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:45 AM
Sep 2017

You are 100% correct on this. One of the issues I hear at local meetings from people is exactly this;

"Why aren't Dems doing anything? Where is the platform? Where are the things that help me? They are only reactionary!"


What you say above speaks the truth. It doesn't matter if something is passed or not, what matters is that people see it happening. That shows the public that our reps are fighting and is used as a motivational tool to get people out for midterms, when voting is usually low. We can't afford that to happen at all right now. What you said is a lightning rod of a motivator.

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
83. Be sure to inform the folks at your meetings about the new Child Care for Working Families Act
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 10:15 AM
Sep 2017
Senator Patty Murray, ranking member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) and Representative Bobby Scott (D-VA), ranking member of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, introduce comprehensive child care and early learning legislation that will ensure that every child has access to high-quality early learning and care that will not break the bank for their parents. The Child Care for Working Families Act is a part of Democrats commitment to giving working families a better deal by building an economy that works for all, not just those at the top.

This proposed legislation is an economic issue, it's a feminist issue, it's a family issue, it's an issue of social justice. It's a bill that we should all get behind.
 

CherokeeFiddle

(297 posts)
88. That was brought up this week
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 10:56 AM
Sep 2017

but didn't get a lot of notice due to single payer being introduced. I'll make sure it gets some sweet ear music again next week. Thank you!

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
93. Great! The new Child Care legislation was introduced yesterday
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 01:25 PM
Sep 2017

Here are available tools to help spread the word:

America’s future depends on quality child care. It not only fuels our country’s economic engine by helping parents work, but also builds the workforce of the future. Of the 12 million infants and toddlers in the United States, more than half spend some or all of their day being cared for by someone other than their parents.

https://www.zerotothree.org/resources/series/child-care-advocacy-toolkit

lapucelle

(19,540 posts)
108. "That was brought up this week, but
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 08:33 AM
Sep 2017
it didn't get a lot of notice due to single payer being introduced."

When you inform your fellow local Democrats at your weekly local DNC meeting about the details of the Democratic platform, you might also want to remind them that a Democratic congressman has introduced his Medicare for All bill in every session of Congress since 2003.

Perhaps John Conyers should court more publicity about HR 676, but he's not the type of leader who grandstands.

http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/HR676

Remind your local DNC captains to tell volunteers training to canvass and phone bank for Democratic candidates that uninformed and misinformed voters pose as grave a threat to our rights as those who do not bother to vote. They helped put Trump in office and Gorsuch on the Supreme Court for a generation. The damage they have done is immeasurable.



 

CherokeeFiddle

(297 posts)
113. Well...
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 12:45 PM
Sep 2017

See we don't have DNC captains, as we are a Our Revolution group So we are a bit different. We consist of Democrats and progressive indie voters who concentrate on getting the progressive voice out; going door to door and talking with people about what concerns them the most when it comes to issues. What it is that they consider the most serious issues. We've gotten a lot of people to come out to our meetings and it's certainly been a very interesting ride. I am amazed at how many people feel like they simply aren't represented. It is rather sad to be honest....

Perhaps John Conyers should court more publicity about HR 676, but he's not the type of leader who grandstands.


Either is Bernie who first introduced single payer in 1992.

Delmette2.0

(4,264 posts)
87. Our Dems in Congress need to hear from us...
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 10:45 AM
Sep 2017

When they submit bills that support our platform. This is important especially when we agree with them on bills they submit and when they vote.

lapucelle

(19,540 posts)
110. And Medicare for All legislation has FINALLY been introduced!
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 08:49 AM
Sep 2017

lapucelle

(19,540 posts)
97. You're going to local DNC meetings
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:17 PM
Sep 2017

and people are unaware of the platform?

Share it with them at the next meeting. It's probably a good idea to share it at all the meetings you attend.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

George II

(67,782 posts)
104. Where are those local meetings? I was at a local meeting just last night....
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 08:56 PM
Sep 2017

Last edited Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)

....(our town Democratic Party) and I didn't hear anything like that. We all work hard in all elections - local and state and federal - to make sure "Dems" get elected. And we're nothing close to reactionary.

murielm99

(31,475 posts)
24. Join the Democratic Party, Bernie,
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:08 PM
Sep 2017

and support the ACA, with improvements. Then it will be about us. Until then, it is all about you.

BainsBane

(54,825 posts)
29. If it weren't about Bernie, we would hear about the issue rather than Bernie
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 04:20 PM
Sep 2017

There were dozens of co-sponsors of that bill, but the singular focus--as always--is Bernie. If people were genuinely interested in building coalitions necessary to pass legislation, they wouldn't insist on using the issue to divide the party and advance one man's career. That author would have simply talked about the legislation. The many threads this year would have been about the issue. Instead, the singular focus has been to promote Bernie, whereas Bernie himself announced his tour to promote the bill with a letter declaring the Democratic Party as the opposition, the "establishment" standing in the way of single payer. This despite the fact the author of the House bill is a Democratic, the very sort of Democrat Bernie has dismissed as "establishment." When people want to pass legislation, they don't begin by attacking the very people who vote for the bill.

For all the lectures we hear about being nice to Trump voters, not insulting them, etc., NONE of that is extended to Democratic politicians or Democratic voters.

None of that is consistent with the goal of passing legislation. Nor is the fact the bill contains no numbers regarding costs and how much taxes would need to be raised to pay for single payer. That shows that the bill wasn't written with the purpose of becoming law. Then there is fact there is zero attention to how to get GOP congressional leadership to bring a single payer and instead used as an opportunity to attack Democratic lawmakers.

If people ever decide they do care about universal healthcare, they will discuss it as an issue rather than using it to justify factional division. Someone will also write legislation capable of becoming law. We would see people discuss what a single payer system would look like rather than insisting anyone who dared to ask questions was the enemy. Refusal to take legislation or discussion of the issue seriously is not consistent with actually enacting single payer healthcare.

People make it about Bernie because the goal is to advance Bernie. As long as they do so, they undermine support.

Oh, and if Bernie is serious about healthcare becoming a right, he needs to organize a constitutional amendment campaign because rights in our system are protected by the Constitution, not legislation.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,381 posts)
95. "People make it about Bernie because the goal is to advance Bernie."
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 02:26 PM
Sep 2017

You can't see that its more you that makes it all about Bernie?

That you seem to have convinced yourself that whatever Bernie does is disingenuous, despite all evidence of a man dedicating most of his life to furthering progressive issues, and so anything he tries to advance should be dismissed as some kind of big ego trip. Do you know how ludicrous that sounds?

I'm just glad that most Democrats in the Senate are more sensible and are happy to work with Sanders and consider him an important ally, unlike yourself and others in here. I think many of those would be surprised upon reading all the blind hatred towards the man on a Democratic friendly website.


"using the issue to divide the party and advance one man's career"

Sanders is nearing the end of his career as it is. What kind of cynical bitterness does it take to accuse him of doing everything he is doing only to advance his career? That is one loooooooooong game he has been playing. Again ludicrous.


"If people ever decide they do care about universal healthcare, they will discuss it as an issue rather than using it to justify factional division. Someone will also write legislation capable of becoming law."

So we wait until this undefined large group of "people" stop what they are doing and one day decide that hmmmmm you know, we really DO care about universal health care. And THEN we can discuss it. Basically the lazy attitude that has kept America from affordable universal health care throughout their history. The iron is hot. After the failed GOP repeal of the ACA. Why not start to "discuss" now? What better time?

Another point:
Like it or not, Bernie is one of, if not the, most popular politicians in the country. So even if you detest the man, although I can't see how anyone could, why not ride the Bernie train for the time being? Instead of using his Independent status as a beacon to attack, why not shift your thinking into seeing it as a unique weapon that only the Democrats have. That when he promotes Democratic supported bills, they will get more traction with a population tired of the political elite of both parties, BECAUSE he is registered as an Independent. EVEN THOUGH HE IS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES A DEMOCRAT?

You don't have to be a 'follower' or a 'supporter' of Bernie to understand his importance as a national and respected symbol on this issue. Due to his hard pugnacious work in the last decades, and also the exposure he got running in the primaries. OF COURSE he will get exposure and the spotlight! That helps put the spotlight on the issue! You could accuse ANY politician of making speeches and running for office simply to "advance their career" or sell books, or be famous, without any real principles behind it. Hillary, Obama, Bill....? Maybe MLK only wanted the fame as well? Mahatma Gandhi? You know sometimes its the actual work, words, and ideas that come out of the person that creates the buzz and popularity around an historical figure. That their fame and stature is not under their own control.

"If it weren't about Bernie, we would hear about the issue rather than Bernie"

Now THIS is absolutely true. In the sense that for yourself and a few others still dwelling in the primary front lines, ie...If Bernie was not front and center and leading the charge on this issue, we would actually allow ourselves to hear about the issue rather than getting stuck on only seeing that $#@# Bernie!

lapucelle

(19,540 posts)
99. Democrat John Conyers has been introducing a Medicare for All bill
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:22 PM
Sep 2017

in every session of Congress since 2003. I really admire Conyers for championing this issue.

Funny how so many people think this idea is something new.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,381 posts)
114. I think most Democrats know about Conyers efforts and appreciate them
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 01:13 PM
Sep 2017

As I understand it, his is a House bill, and Sanders is a Senate bill. So its not like one is trouncing over the other.

Why does it have to be a pissing contest anyways? Who cares if Sanders is getting more attention. Or why. Of course one reason is that Sanders is a very popular politician as politicians go. So why not use that popularity to our advantage? Instead of moaning about Conyers being the first. That just sounds like children would do in a playground. Maybe it just wasn't the right time when Conyers introduced it first. Now the political climate has changed with health care being in the news for better or worse. And Sanders is taking advantage of that climate to push for what Conyers wants as well. Its a team effort.

lapucelle

(19,540 posts)
117. Conyers introduced the bill in January 2017, for the 8th time.
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 02:46 PM
Sep 2017

I'm glad that many agree that it's finally the time to adopt Conyers' bold vision.

We've been waiting for a Senate version of HR 676 for more than a decade. Once the text of the senate bill introduced this week is published on the government website, we'll know whether we finally have one.

http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/HR676#toc

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1804

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

PatsFan87

(368 posts)
47. 100% agree!
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 06:43 PM
Sep 2017

This isn't about Bernie/Hillary, it's about everyone who struggles and has to worry about how they will pay for basic health care. We're all human beings! No one should have to make a GoFundMe page so they don't die in this country. That is SHAMEFUL!

delisen

(6,534 posts)
56. Feel Better after Anger Release?
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:46 PM
Sep 2017

I think it actually is about Bernie Sanders because so many pro-posts invoke his name but few list anything about the bill.

It's Bernie, Bernie, Bernie!.

It seem like a corporate commercial product introduction in the marketplace.

New Coke!

Apple Watch!

Google Glasses!

Beanie Babies!

Lucky Charms!

Bernie Sanders!











concreteblue

(626 posts)
59. So, you are judging Bernie by the content of posts on DU????
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:01 PM
Sep 2017

Sorry, not a lot of points awarded for awareness or intelligence there.....

delisen

(6,534 posts)
61. My post references the marketing of Sanders
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:14 PM
Sep 2017

on this site and makes no judgment about Senator Sanders at all.

I will make no judgment regarding you despite your own apparent assessment or judgment of my "awareness or intelligence" and denial of Judge's Points for me in those categories.








concreteblue

(626 posts)
69. I apologize if I somehow misread your post
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 05:34 AM
Sep 2017

The OP does not reference "the marketing of Senator Sanders" on this site or in any way.

Progressive2020

(713 posts)
60. About Bernie
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:10 PM
Sep 2017

Bernie certainly did not invent the idea of Universal Health Care, but he has popularized it in a way that no other politician has been able to thus far.

I think one reason why Bernie has not joined the Democratic Party is because he is loyal to his own Progressive views rather than any Party line. I can understand why that might irk some Democrats.

I think Bernie's goal is to move the Democratic Party in a more Progressive direction, and so also the country. I think that he has had some success in this, and that is part of why he gets the attention that he does. He did not invent the wheel, but he is good at selling it.

Again, I can see how this might aggravate some Democrats. Bernie has come into the Party as an outsider and remains an Independent. I think Hillary was right that he wants to disrupt the Party. I think that he wants to change the Party into a more Progressive Party. In trying to do this, he has ruffled some feathers amongst Democrats, which I understand can be aggravating.

Given all this, I think that pro-Bernie people and pro-Hillary people should try to bury the hatchet and work together for 2018 and 2020. Sanders should work closer with other Dems and share more credit. Non-Bernie Dems should maybe acknowledge that Bernie has mobilized a Progressive Movement that they (the Dems) might be able to harness and ride to victory on in 2018 and 2020.

Just my two cents.

Mosby

(17,547 posts)
62. if bruce always votes dem then why is he registered as an independent?
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:18 PM
Sep 2017

Seems odd, and I'm not suggesting he's lying, but why can't he commit?

Personally I don't care what independents have to say.

ProfessorGAC

(70,255 posts)
70. Really?
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:22 AM
Sep 2017

I'm registered I! Voted for one R ever and it was a county position and I personally knew the man for years! Not a rightie nutjob! Voted for him both terms
Every other vote since 1974 has been D!
Why can't I commit? I am committed. I'm a liberal who wants dems to win!
Sure you don't need people like me on board?
If you're answer to that question is yes, it explains a lot towards why we've lost ground to the evil empire in the last 18 years

Beartracks

(13,606 posts)
73. "Independent" doesn't mean "Undecided."
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 08:16 AM
Sep 2017

I think Bruce has committed: he's a committed Independent.

And as an Independent, he votes for Democrats because Democrats are closer to his positions, priorities, and values than Republicans.

And that's what any and all of us should do: vote for the candidate closest to our positions, priorities, and values, even if they're not a 100% match. Anything less is abdicating our responsibility as Citizens.

============

Liberty Belle

(9,616 posts)
64. Amen. San Diego's 3 Democrats have NOT supported Bernie's Medicare for All but should.
Thu Sep 14, 2017, 10:21 PM
Sep 2017

I've had 3 plans in 3 years. 2 private and one Obamacare. All 3 were way more than we can afford. For 2 people it's more than our mortgage payment. Obamacare had better coverage, by far, but was the most expensive. Sorry but no way should it cost $1300 for two 60-year-old folks to have healthcare.

I'm now stuck back on a horrible HMO. Even that is $550 a share for just me I've been waiting to see specialists for months, and not the kind of specialists I should be seeing because they are too cheap to do what's right. We make just enough to not qualify for any subsidies, but we are in California and costs of living are the highest anywhere. We're too young for Medicare, but our rates are jacked up because of our age.

We need single-payer healthcare for all and I wouldn't care who introduced it. We should all be for this.

VaBchTgerLily

(231 posts)
86. I think bernie has got it right on health care- universal single payer health care for everyone!
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 10:45 AM
Sep 2017

the silly truth is that between the taxes we now pay and the higher premiums those of us pay already would probably be close to the tax amounts some of these other countries whom have universal health care charge.

Martin Eden

(13,537 posts)
90. "personality rather than policy"
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 12:58 PM
Sep 2017

Exactly.

One of the biggest problems with electoral politics in the USA is the overriding focus on persona and the horse race.

The discussion going forward should not be WHO will be our next candidate but WHAT does the Democratic Party stand for in terms of the crucially important policies that affect all of our lives.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
91. Yep. Bernie isn't running for president again. Neither is Hillary.
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 12:59 PM
Sep 2017

What we have is the beginning of an opportunity to remake American health care. Get on board--if not with the bill as so far written, then with what you would like it to be.

mudstump

(348 posts)
92. Progressive websites like...
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 01:20 PM
Sep 2017

RawStory, CrooksNLiars, ThinkProgress and all others should quit posting these divisive articles that blame this one or that one. It does nothing but keep us all riled up and at each others throats.

Demsrule86

(71,033 posts)
102. I heard on MSNBC that the GOP now have the votes to repeal the ACA...while Sen. Sanders and others
Fri Sep 15, 2017, 08:18 PM
Sep 2017

put out a bill that had no chance of passing the GOP figured out a way to repeal the ACA...great job Senators...thousands will die. You should have fought as hard for the ACA as you did for a single payer bill that has no shot...maybe harder.

R B Garr

(17,385 posts)
115. Yeah, I even heard Graham on an AMJoy clip today lumping the two together, as in
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 02:22 PM
Sep 2017

Bernie will never get his single payer since ACA is going down. The ACA was the existing framework going forward, and that was the priority. Building a coalition is more important than grandstanding.

Demsrule86

(71,033 posts)
118. I don't think I will ever get over this...it was so foolish to do this...the ACA should have been
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 03:28 PM
Sep 2017

the priority.

R B Garr

(17,385 posts)
119. Yup, and Graham knows it, too, which is why he called out Bernie like he did.
Sat Sep 16, 2017, 03:36 PM
Sep 2017

AMJoy had a good panel discussion about this today. You are right about the ACA being a priority.

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