"My Student Loan Made My Boyfriend Leave Me": Debt Ruining Relationships, Delaying Marriages

[marmar]

from AlterNet:



"My Student Loan Made My Boyfriend Leave Me": Debt Ruining Relationships, Delaying Marriages


We already know that student debt is weighing young (and not-so-young) people down, delaying economic recovery as it keeps consumer spending low and the housing market slow. But today, NPR's All Things Considered took a look at the impact of big student loan bills on another important part of life: love, relationships, and marriage.

Rachel Bingham, an art teacher in Portland, Maine, learned this a few years back, when a guy broke it off after four months of a budding relationship. Among other reasons, he cited her $80,000 in student loan debt.

"He said it scared him," she recalls, "that it really made him anxious. And he just did not want to take on my responsibility."

That made Bingham angry because she had never asked for his help. She says she has been very responsible, diligently making her loan payments.

"I was really floored at the time, because I just didn't consider that as a reason for someone to not be with someone else," she says. "I felt it was very shallow."

Bingham, NPR said, is far from the only person suffering this particular problem because of her debt. When they asked informally on Facebook, couples reported avoiding legal marriage to keep one partner from becoming responsible for the other's loan bill. And Bill Driscoll, a financial planner, tells NPR, "It's causing uncertainty and tension because it's an impediment to them moving forward on a lot of fronts." .................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/1033537/%22my_student_loan_made_my_boyfriend_leave_me%22%3A_debt_ruining_relationships%2C_delaying_marriages/

[Drale]

1. Honestly you really have to look at what the debt is from

if they have 80,000 in debt from being a shop-a-holic then yes you might have to think about it but if its because of college, your going to leave them because they were bettering themselves? Thats a dick move, although 4 months is not really that long of a relationship.

[xchrom]

2. Du rec. Nt

[handmade34]

3. all too true...

student debt is SERIOUS problem for many... my life has been altered significantly because of them...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

4. Lame.

If you don't marry someone because of debt, you never really loved them to begin with and you were just looking for an out. Ridiculous.

[Yavin4]

11. Cannot Agree With You There

You have to be real careful if your future spouse is in heavy debt.

[loli phabay]

24. Maybe the guy didnt want to spend years paying off that debt as a couple

80,000 is quite a chunk of change to be starting married life off with.

[Xithras]

61. Not always true. Debt can really be a problem if you want to live outside the "9-5" lifestyle.

One of my friends sons keeps running into this same problem. He'll date girls, but he won't get serious with anyone carrying a lot of debt or other limiting connections. He's only 25, but he's already a sought-after up and coming photographer and cameraman and regularly travels the world (in two months he's leaving on a 4 month stint in the highlands of Vietnam to work with a Discovery Channel film crew, and he just got back from spending the spring on on Alaska's North Slope where we was working as the photographer on an environmental survey project). The guy is ruggedly good looking, wickedly smart, and a dedicated environmentalist, so he's had a lot of women who were more than willing to get serious, but he won't even consider any women who are burdened by debt. Why not? Because having debt means that you need to have a job to pay it, which is a problem when you work in a field where you don't know where you'll be living in a year, or whether you'll even have any income. It's tough to spend a year touring the Congo with your wife by your side when Wells Fargo is demanding a check every month. Dating or marrying a woman with a lot of debt limits his lifestyle and career options. While Hollywood and romance novels would like us to believe that love conquers all, the real world doesn't work that way. Not many men are willing to give up all their dreams and aspirations to marry a woman. Quite frankly, if the woman really loved him, she wouldn't ask him to anyway. Any woman who would isn't worth having anyway.

Finding a mate isn't simply about finding love. It's also about finding someone who complements you and will be by your side as you journey through life. If a potential mate has negatives that will derail that journey, they're not the right person for you. Debt is a deal killer for a LOT of people.

[Edweird]

73. Anyone that turns away true love over money will get the 'happiness' they deserve.

[Xithras]

77. And anyone who sacrifices 'happiness' for marriage will end up in divorce court.

Dating a person with a lot of debt is like dating a person with herpes. Often annoying, sometimes painful, and occasionally an impediment. It may still be a worthwhile proposition if the partner is "The One", but most people simply choose to avoid it.


But seriously, anyone who would ask a potential spouse to give up their hopes, goals, and ambitions simply to be with them is a greedy jerk who isn't worth having. I've known many people who did it, and nearly all are divorced today. True love means that you care about the happiness of the other person MORE than you care about your own well being.

If you really love somebody, you do everything you can to support them. You don't shoot them down because their plans conflict with yours, or your reality.

Life is a journey, and it's important to find a mate who will not only share your goals and aspirations, but who will help you to reach them. A person who doesn't do that (or worse, brings baggage that works against them) simply isn't the right mate.

The real problem isn't the money, but what it represents. It means that your life, like the partners, will be limited by your indebtedness. It means that your freedom to determine your life's course will be restricted. It means that YOUR life's goals will be shelved to accommodate your partners past financial mistakes. THAT is the real problem that a lot of people have with it. Money is just money, but the sacrifices you're forced to make because of it can really suck.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

78. Money is nothing.

It is stupid. It is more ridiculous that we are the only creatures on earth who have to pay to live on this planet. Screw money. It's a necessary evil we have to have. I just got a job helping people. I'm getting paid to make sure kids are safe. I love it. I'll work my ass off, but for a higher purpose. I won't make much, but I'll be comfortable and I'll be happy.
I'm not giving up my best friend, my husband, my soulmate because he might have credit card debt. Fuck that. I'd rather live with him on the street than in a mansion with some asshole.

[Edweird]

80. You sound like my kind of woman.

You get 'it'.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

82. You sound like a good dude.

I like to believe that if you're happy and love someone, the rest is all just numbers and cereal.

[Edweird]

79. YellowRubberDuckie in post #78 says it better than I could.

You believe that people who married for love, without regard for money get divorced more than those that base their 'romantic' decisions on finances? That's just dumb.

[Zanzoobar]

5. i wish i could laff out lou d on the web

[BOG PERSON]

6. Canto XLV By Ezra Pound

With Usura

With usura hath no man a house of good stone
each block cut smooth and well fitting
that design might cover their face,
with usura
hath no man a painted paradise on his church wall
harpes et luz
or where virgin receiveth message
and halo projects from incision,
with usura
seeth no man Gonzaga his heirs and his concubines
no picture is made to endure nor to live with
but it is made to sell and sell quickly
with usura, sin against nature,
is thy bread ever more of stale rags
is thy bread dry as paper,
with no mountain wheat, no strong flour
with usura the line grows thick
with usura is no clear demarcation
and no man can find site for his dwelling.
Stonecutter is kept from his tone
weaver is kept from his loom
WITH USURA
wool comes not to market
sheep bringeth no gain with usura
Usura is a murrain, usura
blunteth the needle in the maid’s hand
and stoppeth the spinner’s cunning. Pietro Lombardo
came not by usura
Duccio came not by usura
nor Pier della Francesca; Zuan Bellin’ not by usura
nor was ‘La Calunnia’ painted.
Came not by usura Angelico; came not Ambrogio Praedis,
Came no church of cut stone signed: Adamo me fecit.
Not by usura St. Trophime
Not by usura Saint Hilaire,
Usura rusteth the chisel
It rusteth the craft and the craftsman
It gnaweth the thread in the loom
None learneth to weave gold in her pattern;
Azure hath a canker by usura; cramoisi is unbroidered
Emerald findeth no Memling
Usura slayeth the child in the womb
It stayeth the young man’s courting
It hath brought palsey to bed, lyeth
between the young bride and her bridegroom
[font color="white"]_____________________[/font]CONTRA NATURAM
They have brought whores for Eleusis
Corpses are set to banquet
at behest of usura.

[coalition_unwilling]

32. Somehow, I don't think quoting an anti-semitic

Nazi-sympathizing literary figure who was institutionalized in an insane asylum achieves quite the effect you're after.

Not worth alerting on for anti-semitism, but please do be aware.

[noamnety]

65. I don't really like this post.

It's very black and white in a world of gray.

Nazi-sympathizer, totally unacceptable. The reason he turned against the US though: because he saw so much danger in capitalism and blamed US involvement in the war on capitalism.
Eventually in an insane asylum, yes. The reason for his breakdown? Being held by the US army in isolation in a guantanamo-like cage.

In addition to reducing complicated issues to an "either with us or against us" mentality in an effort to discredit all of his writing, I have an issue with stigmatizing mental illness in the way you did.

[coalition_unwilling]

69. OK. I think it is rather unseemly to quote a poet with known pro-fascist

sympathies on the subject of 'usury,' especially given how that tag and anti-semitism marched hand-in-glove for over 500 years. But then I'm an e.e. cummings kind of guy, so there you have it.

[hobbit709]

71. From wiki about your guy.

Political views
According to his testimony in EIMI, Cummings had little interest in politics until his trip to the Soviet Union in 1931[14], after which he shifted rightward on many political and social issues.[15] Despite his radical and bohemian public image, he was a Republican and, later, an ardent supporter of Joseph McCarthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings

So don't be so quick with your condemnations.

[coalition_unwilling]

75. I do seem to have a talent for picking poets who, while revolutionary

in their youth, turn into curmudgeonly right-wing fuckwads as they get older (Wordsworth is another classic example in my case.) I do think, though, that Pound's complaint about usury needs to be placed in the context of his support for fascism.

I knew that cummings had moved away from a revolutionary stance as he got older but was not aware he had become an ardent supporter of Joseph McCarthy. I hope when I reach that age, that senescence does not produce such douchebaggery in me. (My wife might say it's already too late

[Aviation Pro]

7. Or it could be the guy...

...was a total douche and just wanted out of the relationship.

[msanthrope]

8. Bingo. nt

[MADem]

9. Entirely possible, that.

They were possibly at the "What's the next step?" phase, and they had different ideas of what the next step might be.

Hers may have been marriage, and his was to put the running shoes on--a commit-o-phobe.

[loli phabay]

25. that too, we only have one side of the story here so its hard to decide.

[coalition_unwilling]

33. Either a douche or a business major (they're pretty

much one and the same

[DavidDvorkin]

10. She's better off without him.

[Logical]

12. Wow, so now we need to pay off student loans? Can you pay me back the money I paid....

to pay mine off also?

[liberalhistorian]

14. Way to totally miss the point of the post.

She wasn't saying she didn't think they should be repaid, nor was she in default; she was faithfully making payments. The point was what having such student loan debt can and often does do to relationships and the impediments to moving forward, getting married, starting a family or a business, getting a house or even renting, etc., etc. It even affects what kind of job you will be able to take; if you want to work in public service jobs, you often can't if you have student loans as you won't make enough to both make the payments and put a roof over your head and food on your table, especially not if you have a family.

The point is why are we putting such a heavy burden on people who are trying to better themselves and improve society; we need all the educated people we can get. The other industrialized nations recognize the value of higher education and heavily subsidize it, to their great advantage.

[Fembot]

13. Being an Art Teacher may be a noble cause.

But if you run up 80k in student debt, I hope your degree will pay more than 30k per year if your lucky.
So many colleges today offer degrees in studies that will never result in a job in that field.
In China if a certain amount of graduates do not find employment in their field. The school will no longer offer that degree.

[liberalhistorian]

15. Yes, because the ONLY point to education

is to get a job and be a good worker. Period. Not increasing knowledge and critical thinking abilities, not developing yourself and helping others to do the same, not gaining ideas and philosophies from other disciplines that help society function. Just getting a job and punching the clock every day like a good little bee.

[gollygee]

17. There's other value to an education for sure, but if your education causes you to rack up

$80k in debt, hopefully it'll also help you pay back that $80k.

[Fembot]

19. Its not the only point.

But if you run up huge debt to get to get a worthless degree are you really any smarter.
If your education is paid for then knock yourself out. Get a degree in advanced AA Basket Weaving

[liberalhistorian]

20. So, what, exactly is a "worthless" degree?

Is it really "worthless" to be an art or music teacher, or any teacher (most teachers frankly don't make much (I grew up with them, so I know)? What about social work? Etc. Are only business and science degrees and the punch-a-clock-and-be-happy jobs "worthy"?
I think not.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. "Worth" is a financial concept.

A degree which doesn't pay for itself may be a rewarding lifestyle purchase, but it's a shitty investment.

It is eminently practical to hesitate to marry someone with huge debts without corresponding assets.

[We are Devo]

40. Happy artists here!

Both boyfriend and I have art degrees. I have a BA he has an MFA. Some of us have to be artists, we are born this way. We scrape by, don't invest in the stock market, don't have 401Ks...don't care about these things. We live simple lives, rent a nice apt., childfree. He teaches drawing and art history to film students, I work in a library. Was it worth it? Hell yes. I get so sick of hearing about certain degrees as being not worthwhile. If you're into making the big bucks, stay out of the arts. I would rather have died than tried to pursue a business or engineering degree. I think success needs to be defined in other ways than the obvious monetary notion.

[surrealAmerican]

49. Thank you for posting this.

When I see these discussions about debt and college degrees, there always seems to be subtext that any student can study any subject, so they might as well study only the most potentially remunerative subjects. We are not only not all capable of being engineers or investment bankers, but it would be an undesirable outcome for our society if those were the only careers open to middle-class students.

[Hoyt]

53. My parents criticized my brother for "pursuing art." Just shook my head and said, "He's happier

than the rest of us poor pitiful souls."

Plus, I have some great sculptures to enjoy.

My brother still lives very simply and because of that enjoys aspects of life that the rest of us running on this treadmill never have time to behold. I'm getting closer, though.

There's a song lyric sung to a new potential lover, "Don't have much money, but I've always got plenty of time." I get it.

[sendero]

85. It's not the same thing..

.. I totally agree that money is not a requirement for happiness and real love is always worth more. However, what if her partner wanted to live a life not beholden to earning a certain amount of money? With her debt, he would not have the option.

I find it somewhat humorous that people would get all pissy about a guy deciding against a gal over money. Gals decide against guys for that reason alone DAY IN AND DAY OUT and any honest person would admit it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Welcome to DU. n/t

[MainlyLurking]

37. Education and a degree are two different things

You can get an education without a degree at almost zero cost.

If you are going to put that much money toward a degree, I recommend you ensure that it is worth the investment.

[AngryAmish]

43. You are asking a person to buy a degree that costs the same as a Porsche

At least with a Porsche you get to drive a fancy car for a while.

Getting a degree without hope of finding a job in a field is a luxury good. If someone pays 80k for a degree in art history or philosophy et al they damn well better be warned that they could earn the same without the degree and not own a nondischargeable debt. In fact it is better to buy a Porsche because you won't owe payment on it after you go bankrupt.

A bit of math: $80,000 / 10 year repayment / 12 months in a year = $666.66 a month in principle alone. Assume a $12 hour wage. That means every month one has to work 55.56 hours to pay off student loans. Over the life of the loan that means 6,667.2 hours worked for a luxury good.

Imagine what you could do with 6,667 hours. It is well over three years of working.

This is way underestimating the time and money. It assumes no interest and no late fees. It assume you do not need to eat or live somewhere for the three years. It assume 100% take home pay without taxes.

It is a cruel hoax that every degree is equal and that a education in an interesting but ultimately dead field. But hey, those English professors got tenure, so fuck the kids.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

50. If the people taking these loans out could understood the basic application of that math...

They probably would not have had to pursue art degrees in the first place.

[alittlelark]

16. An Art teacher SHOULD be able to find a job.

Art teachers are able to open up the minds of (especially at risk) students. The fact that they are devalued shows a loss of intellectual opportunity and cultural expansion.

It makes a society that devalues then small, mean and stupid.

[We are Devo]

41. Hear hear! n/t

[Starry Messenger]

48. This art teacher thanks you.

[Politicalboi]

29. I agree

And welcome to DU.

[coalition_unwilling]

34. Being an art teacher IS a noble cause. Jeesh, most developed

industrial economies do not subject their youth to indentured servitude to get an education.

[treestar]

18. Why do they at least take the trouble to find out if they would really be liable

Debt incurred before the marriage would be separate debt in many states, I would think for the most part that the spouse would not be liable nor would the marriage.

The idea of incurring the debt was to get an education that leads to a higher paying job.

That guy should marry a waitress or salesclerk - no debt, but will never make a large salary either.

[liberalhistorian]

21. While it's true that a spouse may not be personally

liable unless they're a co-signer (which usually isn't the case), it may still affect them as much of the marital money may have to be used to pay the loan each month, and any joint accounts or assets they have may be seized in the event of a default.

[loli phabay]

26. also mayby her whole salary will have to go to the loan meaning he will have to cover every other ex

expense, the guy might have dome the math and figured that the relationship was a bad investment, who knows without having his side of the story.

[treestar]

44. For a time

but if that's the way he looks at things, I wouldn't envy the girl he ends up with, who would be abandoned if something went wrong, though her present prospects are good.

This guy puts money ahead of love, we know that. One can only wonder what his income and earning potential are, and let's not hear him whine about any woman who does not want him because he doesn't make enough.

[AngryAmish]

57. Thankfully, no woman in history has ever rejected a man because he did not earn enough

Or couldn't be bothered to work very hard. The historical record is clear.

[treestar]

64. Well the guy in this article has no business complaining about that

[We are Devo]

42. Also, in the event of a divorce.... n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

52. I understand his choice. We keep ALL my wife's debts and accounts separate for the same reason.

She has/had a crazy amount of student loan debt in a field that doesn't offer high salaries. This was before we were married. Even after we got married, we keep our accounts, credit cards, paychecks and debts 100% separate. She pays for her bills and I pay mine - there is no crossover. I made it clear that we should structure our finances so that enither one of us can drag the other down in a financial crisis.

Of course, the easier option would be to simply to not legally marry such a person like th eguy in the OP

[bluestateguy]

27. Can you become legally responsible for your new spouse's student loan debt?

I could see where that would give someone pause.

Can something like that be hashed out in a pre-nup?

[liberalhistorian]

74. No, you cannot be responsible for

their student loan debt unless you are a co-signer for one or more of the loans, which most spouses are not. It is in their name, they are responsible. The loans I'm taking out now for graduate school are in my name only, hubby is not and will not be legally responsible.

[flamingdem]

28. It's the new "my wife doesn't understand me"

now it goes "my wife put us into debt by going back to school and it's changed things between us" ... when a married person wants to hit on you in this day 'n age.

[limpyhobbler]

30. kickarooni. nt.

Don't take out student loans kids. If things don't go as planned there's no way out.

[JHB]

31. Considering how money problems are a factor in many separations and divorces...

...this is not surprising at all.

[JVS]

35. The prospect of settling down with a house and mortgage together is frightening when a couple...

starts off one house in the hole already.

[cecilfirefox]

36. Im starting law school in August, and this really worries me.

Especially as a gay man- having a family takes a lot more hoops and leaps then straight people. If I want to adopt a child its expensive, if I want to adopt a baby so I can feel that I can bond with him/her from day one, expensive. Surrogacy, expensive, etc. etc. You all get the idea.

It kinda tempts me to take the highest paying job I can find, and live meagerly, and pay ridiculously more than I need to.

Maybe I'd be good at heartless corporate law?

Gah.

[AngryAmish]

45. I'm a lawyer. Don't go to law school.

Unless you are going to a top 20 program.

The jobs in "heartless corporate law" are being automated. Wanna be a trial lawyer? Well with self driving cars the accident rate is going way down in about ten years making my job redundant.

If you are going to a top 20 program then hop onto a biglaw job, suck it dry while you don't get to see your friends for five years and save every penny. But it is a lifetime of drudgery, argument and working on Sunday.

[cecilfirefox]

55. Ehhh... Okay. What state are you in?? nt

[AngryAmish]

56. Illinois

[cecilfirefox]

67. I'm in Kansas, hoping the job market here might be different. :/ But this is kinda my dream, so its

balls to the wall- I'm going for the jugular!

O7! Wish me luck!

[AngryAmish]

68. Good luck, but ask around before jumping into this

ABout half of all recent law grads don't have work. Three years of your time is worth how much? What sort of work could you do and how much would you earn? Add that to the cost of law school. That is the real cost of law school, plus if you have to take loans it will multiply over the years (look up the future value of the loans).

Law school is an incredible investment in time and money. Think about yourself in three years. You would feel pretty rotten if you made this investment and got the degree, passed the bar and what? Working as a temp or delivering yellow pages? I know lawyers who do that.

I don't mean to be a downer but one must look at these things realistically. I have good friends who after twenty years of just scraping by as a lawyer have nothing and curse the day they thought of being a lawyer. It happens. It is a tough nut to crack.

Finally, the loans never go away. You cannot get rid of them in bankruptcy. Do not have a parent co-sign. That puts them on the hook.

Have you worked in a aw office? Do you know what they do day to day?

[cecilfirefox]

83. I'm a gamer, and a hardcore one. This is the sort of work I'm made for. I'm a firm believer in hands

to work, hearts to the gods- it'll work itself out if I bust my ass. Thanks though.

[zellie]

38. Sounds like a sensitive guy.

weird world

[Marrah_G]

39. I can understand the guys point of view

I am doing everything I can to keep my boys from leaving college with debt. It's difficult to start off a life together when you have all that debt. You can't live on love. There has to be some reality in there.

What's happening to this generation is a crime.

[Zalatix]

81. Yes, let's see how many men with $80,000 in debt get turned down for marriage.

I'm betting it happens a lot.

It goes both ways.

[woo me with science]

46. DU Rec. nt

[cbdo2007]

47. I'm on the guy's side - she is irresponsible with money.

Who in their right mind gets an $80,000 loan with an art degree??

People need to do the math and if they can't pay off their student loans in 5-8 years don't do it. Find another school or another career path or something.

[Zalatix]

59. I'm on the guy's side, too, but I don't think she's necessarily irresponsible with her money.

You can go even deeper into debt for a law degree that you THINK there's a job market for, only to find out there's no job market.

We have people out there with PhD's who cannot get a job.

The problem is, employers want degrees. No degree, no job. But if you get a degree you only get a CHANCE at a job. And degrees cost money - moreso than ever. Life is becoming pretty much as simple as that.

[dembotoz]

51. Love me, love my debt

saying from an old friend i used to work with.

doubt it was original but seemed sage to me

[Not Me]

54. It was probably not the sole factor

but one of perhaps many. I'd like to hear the guy's side of the story.

[Zalatix]

58. It goes both ways.

She got dumped for her high debts, some guys get dumped for being out of a job. It goes both ways.

DISCLAIMER: far as I know, business news daily isn't a right wing rag.

http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2753-dating-unemployed-men-women.html

75 Percent of Women Say They Won't Date Unemployed Men

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

60. The guy is an asshole

It's also sad if after four months, someone is concerning themselves with marriage so much, they take this into account. There is too much of a rush nowadays for people to get married instead of living their life.

[noamnety]

62. I understand where he's coming from.

I have one relative who's been with a guy for close to two decades, they live together but they haven't legally gotten married because of debt. They're both very low income. If one of them has to declare bankruptcy and they are married, it will wipe out both their credit and neither will be able to keep the family afloat, get credit cards, get a mortgage or lease, etc.

And then on the flip side, if they have to stay unmarried so that a bankruptcy doesn't wipe them both out, that often means one or the other won't be eligible for health insurance. And then what? If I live with someone in massive debt and stay technically single to protect our assets, then they get sick, what am I going to do? I can wipe out my savings to get them the best treatment I can for as long as I can, then end up single if they die or divorce me, miserable, broke and unable to retire. Or I can be a total ass and not go bankrupt paying for medical care that they need. I don't like either option.

I can understand people not wanting to risk getting sucked into that kind of life-changing decision, especially over a "budding" 4 month relationship. Even moreso when financial stress is a major cause of divorce. If you're plan is to eventually get married, there's a 50-50 chance you'll end up divorced and with ruined credit for the rest of your life. It's reasonable for a person to decide that's not a risk they want to take - and to make that decision before things get too serious.

Eh, actually I support people getting out of relationships for ANY reason - "I don't want to be in a relationship with you" is always acceptable, whether or not other people like the justification. It's sort of the no-means-no thing, people have no obligation to stay in a relationship they don't want to be in, to sleep with a person they no longer want to sleep with, and they're allowed to say no for any reason without feeling bullied or guilted about it.

[NCTraveler]

63. "Among other reasons, he cited her $80,000 in student loan debt. "

What are those other reasons. Her 40,000 in credit card debt? Her personality?

Left out a major part of their break up. Maybe he was just looking for a way out and that was it, "among other reasons".

[taught_me_patience]

66. "Among other reasons..."

ie... it wasn't going to work and he came up with an excuse. No real harm in that.

[JoePhilly]

70. "Its just as easy to love a rich man as it is to love a poor man".

That's what my grandmother told my mother.

My dad worked in construction and was poor. My mom was dating him. She was also dating a college guy. My grandmother wanted my mother to marry the college guy.

Instead, my mother and my father got pregnant, sort of on purpose. My grandmother could not deny them after that.

And so I was born.

Funny thing ... years later, I dated a girl who's parents said the same about me. I was a poor guy, and she was from a well to do family. They pressured her to drop me, and date wealthy guys.

And she did. She married a well to do guy, who was also a dope. He mistreated her, and can't hold a job. She's now divorced.

I've been married to my wife for 22+ years now. Doing very well. I've had old friends tell me she'd like to reconnect with me ... not going to happen.

Your potential spouse comes with all kinds of baggage, debt, job, their FAMILY, so on. And either you love them enough to deal with their reality, or you don't.

[Edweird]

72. Money comes and goes. Too many people are WAY too materialistic (and selfishly greedy).

So, I'm always way too honest. I'd rather run off the money and status seeking scumbags before I know their name. I have no use for any woman that defines me by the number of zeros in my bank account.

[enki23]

76. I propose that all business debt, from this day forward, be forever attached to the debtors.

Why should trying to invest in your education be any different than trying to start a business? We understand that businesses sometimes (often) fail. We understand that things in business don't always go the way they're planned. We understand that sometimes a business plan may not work in the long term, or that what seemed like favorable circumstances at the beginning changed for reasons beyond the business owners', or investors' control.

But when you're investing in your education, in the business of your own skills and your own life, you should be punished for your entire life if you fail. Punished forever if things go wrong. Punished forever if you change your mind. Punished forever if the world changes under your motherfucking feet. You should be punished for your entire fucking life. Your children should be punished. Your spouse should be punished. Your fucking dogs should be punished. Because what's just fine when Donald motherfucking Trump does it is not okay when you do it. Fuck you, you puny fucking worm who thought you'd try to learn something worth learning, or try to do something worth doing. Fuck you, fool. Suffer your entire lifetime for it.

May all the pontificating moralizers, here and elsewhere, choke to death on their own mouthfuls of shit.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

84. One of my friends married a guy six figures in debt

with drastically limited earning potential. Five years into the mission she has to cough up cash every month to cover his debts that he can't afford and his credit is so bad that she can't effectively shelter herself since among other things she is carrying his car loan and his credit cards are companion cards of hers. It isn't going to end well.

[meaculpa2011]

86. If that's the primary reason...

she's well rid of him. When my wife and I got married she had a student loan that took us ten years to pay off while we were paying out of pocket for her M.A. and Ph.d. It has been a glorious journey.

My friend was diagnosed with breast cancer a few years ago and it didn't take her boyfriend more than two days to bail out.

His reason: "I'm just not strong enough to deal with it."

Good riddance.

[crazyjoe]

87. captain obvious.....Don't borrow $80,000 then complain you have to pay it back. state school.