General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLook At These Three Photos And You'll Never See Amtrak The Same Way
Why isnt developing a world-class rail system a national priority? Oh, right . . .Found on imgur/MoveOn.org
MadHound
(34,179 posts)This is the second post of yours where you haven't linked to anything.
Lars39
(26,106 posts)I see them just fine, and the OPs don't have any edits.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Please don't be snide.
Everyone else can see them. IT'S YOUR COMPUTER.
brooklynite
(94,302 posts)Acela isn't by any stretch as fast as ICE or other high-speed trains, but it's an imporvement over the regular ones.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)The message wouldn't work quite so well with that pic.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Typical Chinese commuter train.
You cannot compare their high-speed rail lines with our local commuter lines, it is being disingenuous.
Compare apples to apples instead.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)The typical commuter trains you linked to aren't par to Amtrak either, they're par to the assorted regional local US rails like MTA, Metro-North, MARC, BART, VRE, Path, NJ-Transit and SEPTA...some of which are exponentially-worse than that competition and some of which as nearly as nice as Amtrak.
To make a comparison, one must actually analyze not only the equipment being run, but also the routes between the comparison trains as well as schedule and cost. While Acela is nice, it's price-competitive to airflight where the German and Chinese high-speed rail are both less per ticket than regular Amtrak service on average and often running longer distances. There is nearly price parity between US local rail and German local rail. It's hard to make a comparison regarding Chinese rail though because of how it is operated and their habit of blending passenger and freight service on the same lines and trains.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)The Chinese high speed rail system is riddled with corruption and safety hazards.
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http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/07/chinas-high-speed-train-crash
China's high-speed train crash
Interrogating the Party
Jul 25th 2011, 15:20 by J.M. | BEIJING
CHINA'S high-speed railway network, once a source of great pride for the Communist Party, has turned into an embarrassment. A collision between two trains on July 23rd near the coastal city of Wenzhou not only killed at least 35 people but also unleashed a torrent of online criticism of the network and the railway bureaucracy.
The prompt dismissal of three senior railway officials is unlikely to diminish public outrage at the accident, which came hard on the heels of several malfunctions in a new high-speed rail link between Beijing and Shanghai. The 1,318km (820-mile) line was launched with much fanfare at the end of June to coincide with official celebrations of the partys 90th birthday. Even the rare sight of a Chinese official bowing in apology at a press conference about the crash appears to have done little to placate critics. Online demands abound that the railway minister, Sheng Guangzu, lose his job too. Mr Sheng was appointed only in February following allegations that his predecessor Liu Zhijun (a high-speed rail fanatic) was involved in corruption.
~ snip ~
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/world/asia/design-flaws-cited-in-china-train-crash.html
Design Flaws Cited in Deadly Train Crash in China
By SHARON LaFRANIERE
Published: December 28, 2011
BEIJING Chinese investigators delivered a long-awaited report on Wednesday on the deadly July 23 high-speed train crash in the eastern coastal city of Wenzhou, citing a string of blunders, including serious design flaws in crucial signaling equipment.
Two former top officials of the Railway Ministry who had been removed from their posts months before the crash over alleged corruption were singled out for blame.
~ snip ~
The disaster threw a spotlight on skulduggery in the Railway Ministry, a fief of two million workers that owns the railways it regulates, a stark conflict of interest that experts have repeatedly criticized. Caixin, a Chinese magazine known for aggressive reporting, disclosed last week that Mr. Zhang, the ministrys former chief engineer, had purchased a luxurious home in a Los Angeles suburb in 2002, when his government salary amounted to about 2,200 renminbi, or $264, a month.
~ snip ~
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I'm not trying to trash high speed rail here. I AM trying to point out that it is going to be expensive and arduous and take a long time and a lot of supervision if we want to build a SAFE system.
And even if we do build the fastest, safest system in the world, sometime something will go wrong, and people will die. That sucks, but that is the eventual reality.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)You can pick any pictures you choose. Here's one of the Acela, pulling into New Haven, and one of a regular Amtrak engine pulling into LA's Union Station. They both look newer than that ancient engine (though I can attest that those are still in use: I live near some busy train tracks in the heart of a large city).
bettydavis
(93 posts)SPEED TRAINS SPEED TRAINS SPEED TRAINS! I have been screaming it since 2008! It would change the whole way we live. If I could keep my NYC salary but live in like Philadelphia or something where I pay half the rent and get to midtown manhattan in 45 mins, it would change EVERYTHING! People would be free to roam.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)Washington's dismal Metro system could be running Amtrak.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I didn't think it was bad at all. I was there on business and could have taken cabs, but it was just easier to use the Metro.
I live in the South, so it was highly refreshing to be able to actually use public transit. If I lived in DC I wouldn't own a car.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)due to some computer problem. They still don't know what happened.
Last week a rail car derailed on the Green Line and there was mass confusion about whether the passengers should get out of the car. Nobody at Metro seemed to know what to do. The rail overheated.
Older cars are constantly breaking down. Many cars have no air conditioning.
Some train car doors malfunction if you just touch them, and the train gets taken out of service.
They have no safety procedures, and the Metro staff, especially the train operators, are hostile and nasty.
My husband has been riding Metro to work for 22 years, and says it has deteriorated a great deal in the past decade. He grew up in New York City and says they never have the number of breakdowns and problems he sees on Metro.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Because when I rode it, it seemed like a top knotch way to travel.
I liked it, but it was, indeed, ten years ago.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'd be on it every day without a single regret. You folks in DC are *LUCKY*.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)I kind of enjoyed riding on the Metro as a tourist going by all the attractions, for one that was unfamiliar with the city. It was kind of awesome to go around and see the Potomac, and you didn't have to be stressed driving in a new place.
I could have taken a cab, but I made it a point to take the Metro all over the place while I was there in my off time. That makes me sad that it has gone downhill.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)I don't use it everyday, but a several times a month for work, until last year. I don't know what the problems were this last weekend.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I kind of dig the Metro, though, and if it had issues, sorry to hear it. We have nothing whatsoever like it in the South and wish we did for the most part. Except for those of us that rode authentic street cars in New Orleans. They aren't nearly as cool as the metro because it is pretty modern.
onethatcares
(16,161 posts)and you'll see what the 1700s look like.
We don't need no steeeenking trains or mass transit, we got cars and miles of highways
that get clogged everyday.
You have no idea what you're missing.
(I liked the Blue Route from Rockville MD into the capital when I visited, thought it was better than
sliced rye bread)
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)There were cars and miles of highway in Tampa in the 1700s?
Day-um. I must have missed that day in history class. I was always taught that in the rest of the world, people were walking, riding in a cart, or riding on the back of an animal. Meanwhile, unknown to the rest of the world, in Tampa, Florida, there were cars and miles of highways!
onethatcares
(16,161 posts)those people were riding in carts and on the backs of animals on? sheesh, our education system is the almost bestest in the country and we have the unfunded polytechnic institute to prove it.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Upgrading the tracks won't make a damn difference in those. The rates are set for safety for the same reason that even a Mustang GT has to do 25 in most residential districts. Besides, the comparison is between two passenger engines and a freight engine. I'd like to see one of those "bullet train" engines haul two miles of loaded coal cars.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)fancy fighter jets.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)I hereby declare you the winner!
slampoet
(5,032 posts)China is NOT Japan even though the person who started this meme on Facebook seems to think so.
Here is the kind of trains they use in China and this video is only one year old! They use coal powered steam engines the kind Amtrak hasn't used since the 60's.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)That doesn't mean they don't also have older trains as well. Same in japan (or was 20 years ago).
The US has the Acela express, top speed 150 mph, average speed 75 mph, 450 miles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China
High-speed rail in China refers to any commercial train service in China with an average speed of 200 km/h (124 mph) or higher.
By that measure, China has the world's longest high-speed rail (HSR) network with about 9,676 km (6,012 mi) of routes in service as of June 2011 including 3,515 km (2,184 mi) of rail lines with top speeds of 300 km/h (186 mph).
In 2010, the BBC reported that by 2012, China was expected to have more high-speed railway track than the rest of the world combined.
JVS
(61,935 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... percentage wise, so few Americans use trains. Outside of urban metro areas, and some commuters between selected metro areas, the vast majority of Americans never ride a train. I'm 64 years old, and other than a couple of trips between National Airport and Alexandria, VA on the D.C. Metro, I have never been on a train in the United States. I haven't really ever needed to. Never missed it.
My Grandmother once took Amtrak from NY to California to visit us 20 some years ago. And my Mom used Amtrak from Albany, NY to Texas to visit about 10 years ago. Both said that the Amtrak train adventures were the Trips from Hell. There were constant delays, no food, stopped up restrooms and the help didn't care. As much as they hated flying, they both vowed to fly the next time.
So, outside of major urban areas, and other than some special interests in the transportation and construction fields, it's pretty hard to gin up much support.
Yeah Its Spin
(236 posts)madrchsod
(58,162 posts)throw in the eminent domain problems, and then develop transportation at the destination of the passengers....ya it`s not going to be done anytime soon.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)if routes were well-chosen.
The Acela service is generally considered a success; by 2005, Amtrak's share of the transport market between New York and Boston had reached 40% from 18% pre-Acela.
Between New York and Boston the Acela Express has up to a 37% share of the combined train and air market.
Due to the level of popularity experienced, more Acela Express services were added in September 2005 and more trains may be purchased in order to run additional simultaneous services.
By August 2008 crowding had become noticeable onboard. In 2011, Amtrak announced that forty new Acela coaches are to be ordered in 2012 to increase capacity on existing trains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express
BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)It's still got a LONG LONG way to go. Amtrak is still trying to recover from Raygun's defunding and/or minimal funding that lasted through to the stimulus in 2009, when it finally got some $$$.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,046 posts)But yes, railroad passenger service, especially long distance trains, in the U.S. compares poorly.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)their rail infrastructure, I can't help but wonder how much of it was built by child labor, slave labor, or prison labor, and what fraction of it would bear a Prop-65 warning. I also can't help but wonder how long the engine shown in that photo will last before it's either destroyed in some accident or falls apart. The F40PH has been in service since the early 70s and provided unionized jobs to American workers. Good luck matching that with a made-in-China locomotive.
Here's what China was using at the same time:
Here's China's awesome high-speed rail now:
Here's what else China spends its money on:
I guess when you're Germany, with a land area 1/27th the size of the US, a rebuilt infrastructure courtesy of the Marshall Plan, and having caused a war that obliterated the landscape (thus obviating the need for costly and disruptive eminent domain), high speed rail would be pretty easy.
An apples to apples comparison might be nice next time.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)November 18, 2012:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2262443&mesg_id=2262443
June 18, 2012:
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=822316
See you on August 18th...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and juxtapose it with a picture of the coolest, most modern foreign trains, and pretend that you have posted something profound.
MineralMan
(146,248 posts)On a modern German Highway - the A20
And in the USA in 2012: