Sanders will argue that the ACA should stay in place for now

[Quixote1818]

Not sure why so many think him arguing for single payer is going to hurt the ACA when he has already said protecting the ACA for now is his top priority. Take a breath everyone, Sanders is sharp as a tack and he knows exactly what angles to work to protect the ACA until they are in a position to pass single payer.

[leftstreet]

1. DURec

[Warpy]

2. Exactly, that's what people who are hyperventilating over his Medicare bill don't get

That bill is a shot across the GOP's bow and a threat of what they will face if the screw the pooch on this one because the ACA is the best deal big insurance could have gotten and it won't come again. Next time, the bastards will find themselves locked out of everything but Medigap plans.

Sanders is not stupid. He knows the bill won't pass now. It's a warning of what will come sooner rather than later if the morons repeal the ACA.

[LiberalLovinLug]

3. Exactly

All the chicken littles need to stop their wild eyed clucking and get back in the coup.

Sanders is like the chicken that walks like the others, talks like the others, and even is one of the lead chickens in planning how to defeat the evil fox. But he's also like the one chicken that doesn't quite look like the others and so is pecked and picked on by a gang of the others, to their own detriment.

[Old Vet]

29. Your chicken little analogy, Its offensive.

[LiberalLovinLug]

33. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers

[Old Vet]

36. See, I believe BOTH Sanders and HRC are decent people, That would be a good starting point.

[LiberalLovinLug]

37. I do as well

Cheers

[StrictlyRockers]

4. Bernie is not the most popular politician in America right now because he's dumb

He's very smart. He's playing the long game.
People will find a reason to criticize him & call him a meddler anyway.
What a terrible thing it is for him to support universal healthcare!!!

[pnwmom]

6. You're right. He's not the most popular politician in America. That's a myth.

There isn't a single poll that says he is, though some headline writers have falsely summarized poll results that way. It's all hyperbole.

[virtualobserver]

8. Show me a poll where he isn't the most popular active politician

[pnwmom]

12. Logically that's impossible. You can't prove a negative. Show me a single poll

that proves he is the most popular politician in America.

That was the claim and it cannot be backed up.

The most touted poll only compared him to 4 Democrats and a handful of Republicans, and yet people use it to claim he's the most popular politician in America.

Nonsense.

[virtualobserver]

14. of course you can prove a negative

in order to prove that, you simply have to show that someone else is more popular than he is.

Every poll that I've seen shows that he is the most popular active politician except for one. Biden was slightly ahead on one poll.

Obama is the most popular of all politicians, active or not.

Based on multiple polls that I've seen, Bernie is the most popular active politician.
I don't care if that "proves" it to you or not.


Bernie is very popular.....live with it.

[pnwmom]

15. You are employing a logical fallacy. The burden of proof for an assertion is on the person

making the claim, not someone who disputes it. The claim is that Bernie is the most popular politician in the US, and that there is a poll to prove it.

Then cite it. Even one.

You can't prove that there is such a poll, so you are asking me to prove that there isn't. That's the logical fallacy.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving-Non-Existence

Logical Fallacies

Proving Non-Existence
Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Logical Form:

I cannot prove that X exists, so you prove that it doesn’t.
If you can’t, X exists.

[virtualobserver]

30. I have cited a poll and mention others that lead me to believe that Bernie is the most popular.....

active politician. Most of the polls that convinced me are links in this article.


http://observer.com/2017/07/bernie-sanders-most-popular-politician/

It is just my opinion based on multiple polls.
I saw one poll that gave a slight edge to Biden but that was within the margin of error.
Based on that, no poll has indicated to me that someone else is more popular than Bernie.

Your belief that I am wrong is also just a belief.

You don't agree with my belief. Fine. I don't care if you believe it or not.
I don't need to prove it to you.

[vi5]

28. Isn't it amazing...

That the polls taken years ago that showed Hillary Clinton as being popular are apparently irrefutable evidence that the entire country loved her, wanted her to be President, and that she would have won the election until that meddling Bernie put all those bad ideas into people's heads?

But any poll showing Bernie as being popular is obviously complete bunk.

Funny how that works.

[virtualobserver]

32. Nothing he does or says can ever be right.

It makes me feel sad.

[JCanete]

20. there was at least one poll that showed his favorabilities over other well known public figures.

You are right, it was hardly comprehensive, but his own numbers were pretty damn high.

[pnwmom]

25. Yes, you are absolutely right. I was objecting to the hyperbole.

It's pretty silly to cite polls that don't even include Joe Biden, for example, and pretend that they PROVE that Bernie is the most popular politician of the thousands in America.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. Lol. You've been proven demonstrably wrong on this time and time again. Give it up.

[Me.]

31. He's Most Popular In His Home State

Compared to some senators popularity in their states. The most popular in the country myth was based on a rigged poll as I believe you know.

[pnwmom]

5. Because he's not the only one who gets to talk. They will throw his own words back at him,

his own words denigrating the ACA during the campaign.

And they will cite his recent support of single-payer and accuse him of wanting to bankrupt the country. They will be lying, but they'll be scoring points against him with millions of ignorant voters.

We'd be better off if neither of our debaters had a written record of opposing the ACA in the past. Bernie voted for it only grudgingly, and he has a long record of criticizing it in the past. The Republicans will throw that in his face.

[virtualobserver]

7. lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

[JCanete]

21. That actually gives him a more credible position from which to defend the ACA. He won't come across

as simply a partisan hack, since he'll say the bill isn't perfect, but he'll also say its better than what we had and far far far better than what the republicans are trying to roll out. So I disagree with you that this is a liability.

[pnwmom]

22. Dream on. n/t

[JCanete]

23. Solid refutation. thanks. nt

[haveahart]

9. It's not what Sanders says so much as what the brain dead "think they hear."

If you understand anything about the US voters 2016 should have made it clearer. Most voters hear what they want to hear so care must given to carefully explain the political situations. And most voters can handle only one issue at a time without conflating multiple messages. That is the danger in exposing single-payer right now when he ACA is on the line. It's already happening. Haven't you heard it said that we no longer need Obamacare if the government is going to give us all Medicare?

[safeinOhio]

11. Nope, never heard that.

[LexVegas]

10. Sanders will take Klobuchars lead. nt

[pnwmom]

13. Because he said a lot of other things, too, denigrating the ACA, and his debate opponents

will be able to throw them back at him.

We would be better off with 2 debaters who had always been consistent supporters of the ACA, than someone who is vulnerable because of past opposition. The fact that he finally voted for it won't erase all the slams he made against it.

[Demsrule86]

17. Yes...they have tons of yummy hateful quotes for him which is why they are so happy he is coming...

it is a trap...he should have refused and sent someone else.

[Demsrule86]

16. Great... should stay for now...not really good maybe not fixable but for now until we win

back a super majority and the presidency which has happened twice in 30 years...so you are going to tell Americans who like the ACA that it can stay around for a while...quit the debate Sen.Sanders. Do not do this.

[LWolf]

18. Because.

If it's Sanders, there are going to be objections from the neo-liberal establishment. It doesn't matter WHAT the issue or position is.

[pnwmom]

19. If it's Sanders, the other side can use his own past attacks on the ACA against him.

It won't matter that he finally voted for the ACA in the end. The past attacks will be used in the debate. They probably are already memorizing them.

[LWolf]

26. If what's Sanders?

I'm not really understanding your response.

The public prefers the ACA to the Republican plan; they also embrace Medicare for all.

The public supports Obamacare over the proposed Graham-Cassidy bill by 56-33 percent in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll. Intensity of sentiment also is on the current law’s side: Forty-two percent strongly prefer it, nearly twice as many as strongly prefer the GOP plan.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/public-prefers-obamacare-graham-cassidy-56-33-poll/story?id=50031499

This most recent poll also found:

Only 22 percent of Democrats want to keep Obamacare as it is, and 64 favor changes to the law.
80 percent of Democrats believe it is the federal government's responsibility to ensure coverage for all.
80 percent of Americans believe Republicans should work with Democrats to improve Obamacare.
13 percent of Americans support the Republican plan to repeal Obamacare without a replacement, a proposal the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates would leave 32 million more Americans uninsured.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/07/20/new-poll-shows-nation-moving-left-healthcare-embracing-medicare-all

But polls show that support for single-payer health care is growing in the U.S. According to a recent poll by Kaiser Health News, 53 percent of adults, and one-third of respondents who identified as Republicans, support a single-payer government health-care system.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/bernie-sanders-unveils-medicare-for-all-plan-with-16-co-sponsors.html

[pnwmom]

27. If Sanders goes through with the debate. It doesn't matter that the majority of the public

likes the ACA.

(The majority of voters chose Hillary, too.)

What matters is how uncertain voters decide on this issue -- not the ones who've already made up their minds. The persuadables.

[LWolf]

34. It's a health care debate.

He knows the subject. It's not the ACA vs Single-Payer, but about the Graham-Cassidy bill; either is better, and it's not difficult to establish that, which is why the majority would prefer either.

As Sanders' spokesperson said, “If it’s a debate between guaranteeing health care to every single person as a right, or taking it away from 30 million Americans, Democrats will always win. How could you not take that opportunity?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/09/21/sanders-and-klobuchar-book-cnn-debate-with-cassidy-and-graham/?utm_term=.da7c4b969ffa

I know that there are some Democrats "concerned" that the "socialism" smear will garner support for the opposition, but the facts don't bear that out. There is growing support even among Republicans for single-payer health care.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/opinion/republicans-for-single-payer-health-care.html

[pnwmom]

38. The facts don't bear anything out. The only thing that will prove this one way or another

is Bernie's performance in the debate.

I hope you're not disappointed and I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Arazi]

39. Bernie's "performance" will be trashed here no matter what he says

There's now been several days prepping the Bernie Haters Club to latch onto anything to "prove" his effort was/is a failure. That's a fact

[kstewart33]

41. Oh, come on.

If Bernie debates effectively for ACA, he will be praised. I've not been a fan of Bernie's since his actions in 2016 and his continued efforts to lead a party that he refuses to join. But I wish him the best in his preparation for the debate and will tip my hat to him if he does a good job advocating for the ACA.

[Arazi]

42. Nah, that won't happen. Way too much malicious poisoning of that well here

Not born yesterday

[kstewart33]

43. If the well has been poisoned, both sides share responsibility for it.

It's time to move on.

[LWolf]

44. I hope you were pleasantly surprised.

from Mother Jones, who has typically been very critical of Sanders:

For the Republicans, it was a contrast of the free-market vs. crippling Canadian bureaucracy. If America only knew Bernie Sanders is a socialist.

But Sanders needed all of 10 seconds to make clear that his purpose at the debate was different. “These gentlemen have on five occasions tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act, throw tens and tens of millions of Americans off of the health insurance they currently have, and make it impossible or very difficult for people with pre-existing conditions to get the health care that they can afford,” he said.

No one in the Senate has as much riding on Obamacare’s survival as he does.
Then he went for the kill-shot. “Every major health-care organization in this country, whether it’s the American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Cancer Society, the Alzheimers Society, every single major health organization in this country thinks that their proposal is a disaster.” For good measure, he tossed in the AARP and Planned Parenthood.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/09/bernie-sanders-health-care-debate-was-a-good-idea-for-a-very-simple-reason/

[Are_grits_groceries]

35. They will be more than likely to accept G-C if he keeps messing about.

I don't think that having a position on any issue is bad. However, you better make damn sure people understand you.
First, Bernie does not represent Democrats. He has said he is not one. Nobody has agreed on any other bill. He better not pretend he is the head of anything but his own group.

If they more GOPeas think that there's a chance that a Bernie bill would pass or even another Dem one, a lot will figure that they might as well pass some version of what they want rather than let that happen.

If there is anything that should be hammered, it is Trump and everything he represents. You will never change his base group of crazies. They are with him in another world. You just might keep them out of office or throw them out.

[kstewart33]

40. Truly hope you are right.

We'll know Monday night.