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Sat Sep 30, 2017, 11:55 AM

 

JOY doing segment on Hefner and civil rights...and YES he was an activist

He was a true progressive and an icon.....bailed Dick Gregory out, among other things.....

83 replies, 4557 views

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Reply JOY doing segment on Hefner and civil rights...and YES he was an activist (Original post)
jodymarie aimee Sep 2017 OP
malaise Sep 2017 #1
Hortensis Sep 2017 #33
malaise Sep 2017 #37
TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #44
Lotusflower70 Sep 2017 #55
Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #75
Whiskeytide Oct 2017 #82
JonLP24 Sep 2017 #2
jodymarie aimee Sep 2017 #4
JonLP24 Sep 2017 #6
Hortensis Sep 2017 #10
JonLP24 Sep 2017 #13
Hortensis Sep 2017 #16
JonLP24 Sep 2017 #19
Hortensis Sep 2017 #21
JonLP24 Sep 2017 #28
True_Blue Sep 2017 #31
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #3
jodymarie aimee Sep 2017 #5
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #7
jodymarie aimee Sep 2017 #8
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #9
50 Shades Of Blue Sep 2017 #12
Hortensis Sep 2017 #14
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #15
Hortensis Sep 2017 #18
SharonClark Oct 2017 #68
Jim Beard Sep 2017 #22
oberliner Sep 2017 #23
Squinch Sep 2017 #27
oberliner Sep 2017 #46
Squinch Sep 2017 #50
oberliner Sep 2017 #53
Squinch Sep 2017 #62
oberliner Sep 2017 #65
Squinch Sep 2017 #66
wryter2000 Sep 2017 #35
oberliner Sep 2017 #45
LanternWaste Oct 2017 #77
Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #83
True_Blue Sep 2017 #32
leftstreet Sep 2017 #34
TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #43
SharonClark Oct 2017 #70
LanternWaste Oct 2017 #76
Squinch Sep 2017 #30
50 Shades Of Blue Sep 2017 #11
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2017 #17
Jim Beard Sep 2017 #20
jodymarie aimee Sep 2017 #24
Jim Beard Sep 2017 #36
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #38
TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #41
Post removed Sep 2017 #47
DLevine Sep 2017 #48
smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #54
TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #42
Adrahil Oct 2017 #71
SharonClark Oct 2017 #72
no_hypocrisy Sep 2017 #25
LineReply .
Squinch Sep 2017 #26
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #29
Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #59
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #60
delisen Sep 2017 #64
Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #74
TheFrenchRazor Sep 2017 #39
Blue_Adept Sep 2017 #49
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #51
pnwmom Sep 2017 #63
SharonClark Oct 2017 #67
TheFrenchRazor Oct 2017 #73
liberalhistorian Sep 2017 #40
Laffy Kat Sep 2017 #52
Coventina Sep 2017 #56
Watchfoxheadexplodes Sep 2017 #57
Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #58
pnwmom Sep 2017 #61
Adrahil Oct 2017 #69
HopeAgain Oct 2017 #78
alarimer Oct 2017 #79
Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #80
obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #81

Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 11:56 AM

1. He was a serious civil rights activist

Human beings are complex

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:50 PM

33. Yes, and reality is complex, even before considering changing societal attitudes.

I'm wondering if some of these one-dimensional attitudes toward Hefner might be ascribed, not to just one-dimensional thinking, but at least in part to the priggish Reagan-era, 1978ish-2008, attitudes. Probably a bunch of people here grew up in that era.

Although all this narrow-minded mud is supposedly being slung only at Hefner, the women he's famous for displaying actually flew across the country and applied and competed for those "honors." For sure, if he personifies all these disgusting sexist whatevers, respect for equality means these women should also be considered guilty and disgusting. If he can't also be a civil rights activist, surely none of them can either.



Sorry, Darine, don't care how many death threats you got for this, to some you're just a "pimpee."

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 03:15 PM

37. Life is black and white for some

No grey allowed.

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:38 PM

44. right, so maybe he did some bad along with the good? why only allow talk of one? nt

 

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:52 PM

55. There is that

He contributed to NARAL and Planned Parenthood.

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:18 PM

75. No he wasn't ...Hef was a God damned woman hating bigot...

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 03:33 PM

82. That's a great observation. And not just...

...Hefner. The magazine's run spanned more than 60 years. Our complex and often flawed society changed a lot in that time, and from my experience with the magazine - it did too. What was outrageous in 1955 was only a little controversial in 1976, and was downright quaint by 2001.

Playboy WAS different from other similar publications. It was pretty serious about politics (and leaned way left), contained interesting and often controversial interviews, reviewed books, movies and music, and much more. Sex/sexual fantasies was certainly the theme, but the magazine had a "take" on life that was more than just sex and naked women.

Was it damaging for women? Good question. I understand and agree with the arguments that, in some ways, it was (sexual objectification, anti-feminism, self image/body shaming, etc...), and I understand and agree with the arguments that it sometimes was not (pro-choice, anti-sexual assault, etc...).

On the other hand, was it a beneficial advocate for left-leaning politics, race relations, and LGBT rights? I think clearly yes.

Complex certainly fits.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 11:59 AM

4. know him personally then?

 

talk to the folks who did.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #4)


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:43 PM

10. And admitting to it also. People aren't paper cutouts, and even if they were

deciding an elephant cutout was shaped just like a tree trunk or snake might be an opinion, but that wouldn't make it a very accurate one.

I overall had a great distaste for Hefner, and his daughter, I even read Steinem's unflattering book, but I would never get so carried away as to villify him as a pimp, "high class" (can there be such a thing?) or any other.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #10)


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #13)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:58 PM

16. You should have meant expensive, but you'd have still been wrong.

Pimping is a real thing, the selling of other people's sexual services. Pornography is also real.

You do no good for the victims of both when you misuse these words to mean far less than the tragedies they typically involve in the real world.

And, by the way, I really don't think Steinem would appreciate your characterization of her as being pimped.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #16)


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:10 PM

21. Oh, sorry. His doings were "pimpings" of all the OTHER employees he put in scanty

or no clothes and displayed to men. Got it.

You should read her magazine article (not book, in this case). It was really heavy on just de-glamming the bunny clubs and describing how hard the waitresses worked and in what uncomfortable costumes. I don't think she'd approve of your characterizing the women she worked with as letting themselves be pimped either.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #21)


Response to Hortensis (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:31 PM

31. He made a fortune from exploiting women's bodies

'I called Hugh Hefner a pimp, he threatened to sue. But that’s what he was'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/28/hugh-hefner-pimp-sue-playboy-mansion

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 11:59 AM

3. His civil rights efforts, while admirable, did not seem to extend

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:03 PM

5. elaborate

 

and by that I mean direct quotes. Not easy- to- slide- into stereotyping...You guys didn't know him.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:13 PM

7. How about "These chicks are our natural enemy"

(referring to feminists in the '70s)? “These chicks are our natural enemy,” he wrote in 1970, ordering a hit piece in his magazine on feminists. “What I want is a devastating piece that takes the militant feminists apart. They are unalterably opposed to the romantic boy-girl society that Playboy promotes.” https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/sep/28/hugh-hefner-playboy-founder-91-dark-side

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:17 PM

8. We are Democrats

 

so was he...put your purity pony out to pasture. It is 2017.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:24 PM

9. So everybody who calls himself a Democrat

is entitled to objectify women and regard them as useful only if beautiful and willing to fuck him, as long as he doesn't vote Republican?

I don't think so. Sorry, Democrats should have some standards too, and one of them is to not be a sexist pig like Hefner.

And, by the way, Donald the Pussy-Grabber has intermittently called himself a Democrat, too.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:45 PM

12. Thank you!

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:51 PM

14. Usually agree with you, TVO, but Hefner was a product of his times, just as,

in a very different way, Steinem was.

Imo, suggesting that people who point out that huge reality might support Hefner's very antiquated 1950s-1960s sexual attitudes is very inappropriate.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:57 PM

15. Except for the fact that he never shed his antiquated attitudes,

and neither did a lot of other men who still indulge in the Playboy fantasy of having unfettered access to beautiful, compliant women to have unlimited sex with. See also Donald "Pussy Grabber" Trump.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:01 PM

18. I refuse the deflection: we're talking about YOUR statement to another here.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 12:29 AM

68. Did you mean to respond to post 8? That was a real deflection.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:14 PM

22. Only if they want to be....

 

beautiful, compliant women to have unlimited sex with. Just as a woman has a right to choose to abortion or birth control.

The Hefiner hate is shared by some on the right as well as some on the left. And please, don't group all men with Trump.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:15 PM

23. Are you saying that men should not fantasize about having sex with beautiful women?

 

Good luck with that.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #23)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:24 PM

27. This nonsense reply is beneath you. You know that's not what the poster is saying,

and this is the specious argument of someone who has no better position than to put words in others' mouths.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:50 PM

46. I think it's a legitimate debate

 

People have different perspectives on this sort of thing. Some people think magazines like Playboy are inherently problematic and others don't. I didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth - that's why I worded my reply as a question.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:31 PM

50. Uh huh.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #50)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:44 PM

53. Fair enough

 

I understand the eye-roll. It was a bit of a loaded question. Maybe it would've been better to pose it this way: Would you think less of a person if you found out that they privately watched pornography? That is to say, assuming they treated you with respect at all times - would the fact of viewing pornography on its own be a negative?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #53)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:45 PM

62. How about you go back to post 15 and read it like Velveteen Ocelot might

have a point, and an important one, and not get sidetracked by the, "Oh shit, the feminists want my porn!" knee jerk nonsense.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #62)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 08:15 PM

65. OK

 

Having re-read that post, I do think there is a valid point made; however I am trying to provide a counterpoint that may be worth at least some consideration. Namely that engaging in such fantasies is not necessarily antiquated and can usually co-exist with men treating women with respect in real life.

Is there an inherent problem with a person having a sexual fantasy about another person that they don't know, based solely on their appearance? I ask that question in earnest - I think it's at least worthy of a discussion. I would also assert that this is fairly common, even today, and even among good people.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #65)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 08:20 PM

66. Still not letting go of your bogus side issue. I'm done.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #23)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 02:17 PM

35. I'm saying

Men should treat beautiful women, and all women, as human beings, not as sex toys created for men's gratification. Most of the men on this board don't have any problem with that concept.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:45 PM

45. The fantasy is separate from reality, though

 

That is what makes it a fantasy.

I think that most men are perfectly capable of treating all women as human beings but also indulging in sexual fantasies (same for women, of course).

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Response to oberliner (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:24 PM

77. Another inaccurate inference to have something... anything to argue against.

Another petulant, biased and inaccurate inference to have something... anything to argue against.

Good luck with that, indeed.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 06:48 PM

83. This isn't fantasy...these women were drugged, some raped ...Cosby went to the mansion.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:32 PM

32. +1000

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:53 PM

34. +1

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:34 PM

43. wow. so "our" pigs are ok? sorry, i'm a dem; not a brain-dead cult member. speak for yourself. nt

 

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 12:32 AM

70. LOL! On the deflection scale of 1 to 10, you get a 2 for effort.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:23 PM

76. You're certainly moving your initial goalposts wider and wider as the conversation grows.

You're certainly moving your initial goalposts wider and wider as the conversation grows.

I get it though... I'd call anti-feminism a mere "purity pony" as well too if my bias depended on it.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:28 PM

30. For many here that doesn't matter. Sad but true.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:44 PM

11. Fuck him - I'm glad he's dead but the damage he did to women will live on.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 12:59 PM

17. Making women a commodity is not a progressive value.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:07 PM

20. jodymarie aimee, I totally agree. I am 70 and remember the time period very well.

 

There is way too much misguided anger.

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Response to Jim Beard (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:20 PM

24. when they get like this, they sound like Republicans

 

hate hate hate...without knowing all the facts.....so to them JFK and LBJ were also bad guys?? I am 66 and was a Berkeley hippie, and am also survivor of DA, and I work for the DEMs every single day. Sadly, Americans are so far behind regarding sex.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 02:21 PM

36. I went back to college and found this attitude prevelant in many, more so than main street America.

 

Some need an outlet from being hurt and "Womens Studies" classes seem to foster the extremes. I think most of the extreme hostility comes from events that occurred in their personal lives and the classes pull it out.

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Response to Jim Beard (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 03:21 PM

38. "Events that occurred in their personal lives" were real.

The women's movement came about precisely because of the events that occurred in women's personal lives - events like harassment, pervasive discrimination and rape. During the '70s, during Playboy's heyday and before sexual harassment in the workplace became illegal, women had to tolerate some really unpleasant and degrading behavior from which there was no protection and no recourse. If you never had to experience it you won't understand why Hefner's "Playboy" mentality was and is so offensive.

Here's one event that occurred in my personal life, which contributed considerably to my loathing of Hefner and everything about the whole Playboy business: In the early '70s, I was recently married and had a lousy full-time job, while my then-husband was in grad school. We were really broke, so I looked around for an extra part-time job, and learned about a local restaurant/night club that was looking for cocktail waitresses, and the skinny was that you could earn really good tips. So I got myself hired right away, and they gave me my "uniform," which turned out to be a skimpy Playboy bunny-like costume. I was taken aback by this, and felt really foolish and uncomfortable in it, but we really needed the money and I figured I could put up with it for a few nights a week.

So I was sent out onto the floor to be trained in. The place was clearly trying to cultivate a Playboy Club ambience, although it wasn't actually a so-called "gentlemen's club." The clientele was mainly middle-aged men in polyester suits, accompanied for the most part by wives or girlfriends - but it was awful. Those guys took the Playboy mentality as far as they could with their clothes on; I managed to get a years' worth of 70s-era workplace sexual harassment packed into one evening. I could hardly take an order without being leered at, patted, groped, propositioned or otherwise hassled in a sexual way. And I was supposed to act like I enjoyed it. I guess if you were stuffed into a costume that was a cross between a corset and a bathing suit as a condition of your employment, it was presumed that it was perfectly OK to touch you anywhere and say anything to you. It was a completely degrading experience and I quit as soon as my first night was over. Some women were obviously willing to put up with it; I wasn't.

Compared to the experiences many other women have had and which helped form the ideas you found so offensive and extreme in your women's studies class, this was pretty minor stuff. But it sure opened my eyes to the attitudes some men had toward women in those days, and maybe still - that we are just meat, things that exist for their pleasure. Hefner and his Playboy were instrumental in bringing that crap mainstream, giving fat middle-aged men in leisure suits, as well as zitty, wanking teenagers, permission to treat women as objects.

So I don't give a crap about Hefner as a so-called civil rights hero. He was a sexist pig. Fuck him and the silk pajamas he slithered in on.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #38)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:29 PM

41. a lot of people are determined not to see anything wrong with the type of treatment you mentioned.

 

so many people, both men and women, literally think that being a "bunny" is what women are for, so what's everybody complaining about? it is to your credit that you recognized it as wrong, and it is good for people to hear that not every woman thinks being a bunny is a good thing.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #38)


Response to Post removed (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:12 PM

48. The fact that you call women sluts

tells me all I need to know about you.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #38)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:46 PM

54. +1000

It makes me sick that any progressive would tolerate this bullshit, let alone praise it.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:32 PM

42. most people are not all good or all bad; it is you who sounds like a repub by insisting that everyt

 

everything is black/white, either/or. when people do good, they are good; when they do bad, they are bad. i'm able to differentiate between the two.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #24)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 12:35 AM

71. This isn't about prudery...

 

It's about women being presented as playthings.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #24)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 01:06 AM

72. No, they don"t sound like Republicans. They sound like people who are aware of how women are

objectified and don"t like it. And maybe they think the pill did more for women's sexual liberation that Hefner did. Silly aren't they?

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:20 PM

25. Hefner was a very complicated man whose choices

seem incongruent in an amalgam. I will criticize where appropriate and give him credit likewise.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:23 PM

26. .

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 01:27 PM

29. He held some very progressive positions on a number of issues.

And the negative responses to your post are interesting and revealing. (And yes, I did intend revealing as humor.)

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #29)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:38 PM

59. What is revealing is some think the way Heffner treated women was just fine...he was a pig.

I have nothing but disgust for him.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #59)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:43 PM

60. I can appreciate his support for many progressive causes even as I deplore his misogyny.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #60)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:58 PM

64. well, Hitler did bring Germany the Volkswagen

The automobile of the the "Masses, the Volk, the "Working Class

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #60)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:18 PM

74. I do not...his misogyny over shadows any good he did.

What if a KKK guy gave to a charity...or supported a $15.00 wage...could you appreciate that? Same thing.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:21 PM

39. it really is not either/or. he did some good and he did some bad. it is a false choice to suggest

 

that it must be one or the other.

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Response to TheFrenchRazor (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:24 PM

49. Very few people are. Which is why the calls of him being an ultimate evil

or just one thing as well as the numerous joyful moments in his death are just disturbing to see around these parts.

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Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #49)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:34 PM

51. "Ultimate evil" is a bit extreme. I'll save that for Donald Trump.

Last edited Sat Sep 30, 2017, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

But calling him a sexist who objectified women for his pleasure and profit - maybe not so extreme. I'm not joyful about his death but I'm not losing sleep over it either (in fact, I thought he was already dead). I do wish he had paid as much attention to the civil rights and full humanity of women as he did to other causes.

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Response to TheFrenchRazor (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:48 PM

63. Would you call him a progressive if he was as much of a racist as he was a misogynist?

If he kept black people in a virtual petting zoo at the mansion?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #63)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 12:10 AM

67. Great question.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #63)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 02:21 AM

73. i never called him a progressive; i think you misunderstand. nt

 

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 04:22 PM

40. Yes, he was, indeed, an activist

in women's exploitation.

I do agree that he was visionary and activist in civil rights matters, but I wish he'd extended that to women as well.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:35 PM

52. Oh, please. nt

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 05:57 PM

56. Treating half the human race as "bunnies" is not progressive.

Nope.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 06:23 PM

57. Playboy without t/a

Time

He made a fortune off nude women period.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:37 PM

58. Hefner? He was a pig where women were concerned...

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sat Sep 30, 2017, 07:43 PM

61. He was a pimp. He was that kind of civil rights "activist."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/28/hugh-hefner-pimp-sue-playboy-mansion

The accounts of the “privileged few” who made it into the inner sanctum of the 29-room Playboy mansion as wives/girlfriends/bunny rabbits are quite something. In Hefner’s petting zoo/harem/brothel, these interchangeable blondes were put on a curfew. They were not allowed to have friends to visit. And certainly not boyfriends. They were given an “allowance”. The big metal gates on the mansion that everyone claimed were to keep people out of this “nirvana” were described by one-time Hefner “girlfriend no 1” Holly Madison in her autobiography thus: “I grew to feel it was meant to lock me in.”

The fantasy that Hefner sold was not a fantasy of freedom for women, but for men. Women had to be strangely chaste but constantly available for the right price. Dressing grown women as rabbits – once seen as the height of sophistication – is now seen as camp and ironic. There are those today who want to celebrate Hefner’s contribution to magazine journalism, and I don’t dispute that Playboy did use some fantastic writers.

Part of Hefner’s business acumen was to make the selling of female flesh respectable and hip, to make soft porn acceptable. Every man’s dream was to have Hefner’s lifestyle. Apparently. Every picture of him, right to the end, shows him with his lizard smirk surrounded by blonde clones. Every half-wit on Twitter is asking if Hefner will go to heaven when he already lived in it.

SNIP

If any of them left the mansion and were not available for club nights where they were paraded, they didn’t get their allowance. The sheets in the mansion were stained. There was to be no bickering between girlfriends. No condoms could be used. A nurse sometimes had to be called to Hefner’s “grotto” if he’d had a fall. Nonetheless, these young women would have to perform.

SNIP

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Sun Oct 1, 2017, 12:32 AM

69. AND, as she discussed....

 

He objectified women.

People are complicated.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:39 PM

78. No. He helped create this objectification culture we have today.

There's a difference between loosening sexual mores and objectifying women. He did much more of the latter

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:44 PM

79. He was an exploitative piece of shit

Degrading to women no matter what else he might have done.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:57 PM

80. Plenty of folks pretended to be liberal during the 60's...it was fashionable.

You can't be an activist if you are a bigot or a sexist.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Thu Oct 5, 2017, 02:58 PM

81. He was not a "true progressive"

UGH.

He was a misogynistic, sexist creep.

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