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dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 09:32 PM Oct 2017

20 of America's top political scientists gathered to discuss our democracy. They're scared.

On October 6, some of America’s top political scientists gathered at Yale University to answer these questions. And nearly everyone agreed: American democracy is eroding on multiple fronts — socially, culturally, and economically.

The scholars pointed to breakdowns in social cohesion (meaning citizens are more fragmented than ever), the rise of tribalism, the erosion of democratic norms such as a commitment to rule of law, and a loss of faith in the electoral and economic systems as clear signs of democratic erosion.


Snip:

Yascha Mounk, a lecturer in government at Harvard University, summed it up well: “If current trends continue for another 20 or 30 years, democracy will be toast.”
“Democracies don’t fall apart — they’re taken apart”

Nancy Bermeo, a politics professor at Princeton and Harvard, began her talk with a jarring reminder: Democracies don’t merely collapse, as that “implies a process devoid of will.” Democracies die because of deliberate decisions made by human beings.



https://www.vox.com/2017/10/13/16431502/america-democracy-decline-liberalism
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20 of America's top political scientists gathered to discuss our democracy. They're scared. (Original Post) dixiegrrrrl Oct 2017 OP
life. So called christians, not Iliyah Oct 2017 #1
Republicans are indeed taking apart democracy, but what will they replace it with? nt procon Oct 2017 #2
Oligarchical dictatorship lastlib Oct 2017 #10
Procon, your question makes me think of... KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2017 #26
I fear for the future. Not so much for myself, but for my young nieces and nephews who will smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #3
When you have a generation of young people worshipping Hitler and embracing white supremacy... Initech Oct 2017 #5
I know. It makes me so sad. I just can't believe that this is our country. smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #12
I feel like we made a major mistake somewhere in the last four years. Initech Oct 2017 #19
We lost Wisconsin and Michigan in 2010 delisen Oct 2017 #28
It's the 4-decade-long GOP hatemongering that got us here american_ideals Oct 2017 #15
Yes and the hate is now 24/7. Initech Oct 2017 #20
Don't be fooled by places like 4Chan. Kentonio Oct 2017 #25
Exactly - well said! KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2017 #27
We must tell everyone we know that Fox News lies to get votes for billionaires american_ideals Oct 2017 #30
I have 2 adult sons who both decided not to have children, decades ago. dixiegrrrrl Oct 2017 #6
Make that 3 adult males. roamer65 Oct 2017 #8
My three have also decided not to have children. murielm99 Oct 2017 #11
Hmmmm dixiegrrrrl Oct 2017 #23
Not much to look forward to, is there? smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #13
I'm never having kids yuiyoshida Oct 2017 #18
Remember that Business Plot from the 20s? It's here. Initech Oct 2017 #4
the warning bdamomma Oct 2017 #7
K&R bdamomma Oct 2017 #9
Glad I did not have children now. Demtexan Oct 2017 #14
Thought it was just me who felt that way. dixiegrrrrl Oct 2017 #16
I wanted a kid or two but it did work out. Demtexan Oct 2017 #17
I chose to not have kids when I was 12. BigmanPigman Oct 2017 #21
Good on you for listening to your gut feelings dixiegrrrrl Oct 2017 #22
I remember those days. murielm99 Oct 2017 #24
Holy shit.That doc musta hated the Women's Movement. dixiegrrrrl Oct 2017 #29

lastlib

(22,981 posts)
10. Oligarchical dictatorship
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 11:09 PM
Oct 2017

The Golden Rule--Whoever has the gold makes the rules.

We are on the superhighway to the new serfdom.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
26. Procon, your question makes me think of...
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 04:42 AM
Oct 2017

some Southern paper mill towns I've worked in, as well as most coal mining towns. The company owned the whole damn town in the old days, and in fact built many of them. Reminds me of the song "Sixteen Tons".

I fear that's where we're headed as a result of globalization, rampant consumerism, and unfettered capitalism that is designed for all capital to flow upward, and we get a little trickle-down. It's already happening around the globe with billionaires buying up vast amounts of property to rent.

This is the world-wide race to the bottom. The day could come when humans sell their entire life to a corporation, just to survive.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
3. I fear for the future. Not so much for myself, but for my young nieces and nephews who will
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:08 PM
Oct 2017

be adults when this happens - if it is not reversed. I would not want to live in the world that they will inherit.

Initech

(99,914 posts)
5. When you have a generation of young people worshipping Hitler and embracing white supremacy...
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:33 PM
Oct 2017

It does not bode well for the future of this country or the world.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
12. I know. It makes me so sad. I just can't believe that this is our country.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:07 AM
Oct 2017

I am heartsick. What on earth is wrong with these people to make them so filled with hate? I just will never understand it.

Initech

(99,914 posts)
19. I feel like we made a major mistake somewhere in the last four years.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:55 AM
Oct 2017

If only we can correct it before it's too late.

delisen

(6,039 posts)
28. We lost Wisconsin and Michigan in 2010
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 06:11 AM
Oct 2017

directly after passing the Affordable Care Act which gave rise to the Tea Party-a virulent form of Republicanism.

These were not the only states where Democrats suffered losses in 2010. A bonus for Republicans was that 2010 was a reapportionment year and Republicans got the power to gerrymander districts.

In hindsight a major mistake was to not focus on immediately regaining those seats and in not engaging sufficiently in state and national party building-or even recognizing that the situation was urgent starting in 2010.

american_ideals

(613 posts)
15. It's the 4-decade-long GOP hatemongering that got us here
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:15 AM
Oct 2017

The GOP has been hatemongering since Reagan and Neshoba County, and back to Nixon before him.

Trump didn't create this hate -- it created him. Trump just said out loud what the GOP has been dogwhistling about for 4 decades.

Initech

(99,914 posts)
20. Yes and the hate is now 24/7.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:58 AM
Oct 2017

And the president's favorite news network enforces this hate. Just watch Hannity. The clergy enforces this kind of unfiltered hatred too. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with "the dark web" and places like 4chan and /pol/. It's getting scary out there.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
25. Don't be fooled by places like 4Chan.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 04:12 AM
Oct 2017

It's basically a home for a lot of trolls and many disturbed types end up there, but it's also where a lot of fundamentally good and free thinking people collect. The internet used to be a much wilder, freer place, and those places still exist but tend to be tarred by the behavior of the show offs, trolls and more despicable members.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
27. Exactly - well said!
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 05:02 AM
Oct 2017

I've thought much about how we might reverse this plague on our society but with no easy answers. Even if one could shut down Faux News and hate radio tomorrow, it would take a generation to moderate-out the hate and disinformation.

The only idea that keeps resonating is bettering our education system, and therefore improving average citizen's rationality and independent thirst for truth.

Unfortunately, the billionaire class prefers us to be dumb, delusioned, and filled with fear.

american_ideals

(613 posts)
30. We must tell everyone we know that Fox News lies to get votes for billionaires
Tue Oct 17, 2017, 07:25 PM
Oct 2017

This is a former FBI counter intelligence agent.

She's talking about why forcing foreign propaganda to register under FARA neutralizes them.


"Shedding sunlight on all of their activities is really what neutralizes them," Rangappa added. "If a foreign intelligence service is trying to disseminate propaganda, it will only work if people don't know anything about the source of the information. If they're registered as foreign agents, it's basically saying they're not real journalists."

http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9

Same with Fox and Limbaugh. If enough of us get the message out that Fox is lying to get votes for Murdoch and GOP donor billionaires, we can break their hold.

Bring this up with all your friends and family. It's very important.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
6. I have 2 adult sons who both decided not to have children, decades ago.
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:47 PM
Oct 2017

Saves me the worry of a future for any grandkids.

At this point, I understand their decision very well.

For some reason, it really hit home for me when I read yesterday that the hurricane heading for Ireland was the first hurricane in recorded history that got that far north.
true, they have a lot of very very strong storms, but not a hurricane, which needs heat to keep going. Just think of how warm the Atlantic must be up there now.


Plus, there are more and more frequent headlines that say " happened faster than scientists predicted"
about so many climate milestones reached.

murielm99

(30,656 posts)
11. My three have also decided not to have children.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:05 AM
Oct 2017

For the youngest, it is a very recent decision. I understand as well.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
13. Not much to look forward to, is there?
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:09 AM
Oct 2017

I really hope we can turn things around. I am despairing, but I still have hope that people will do the right thing and reverse this trend toward hate and ignorance.

Initech

(99,914 posts)
4. Remember that Business Plot from the 20s? It's here.
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:30 PM
Oct 2017

The billionaires got their coup, and it's destroying the country, and it will probably kill us all.

bdamomma

(63,652 posts)
7. the warning
Sun Oct 15, 2017, 10:56 PM
Oct 2017

alarms are ringing, this is horrifying. Professionals are coming forward and ringing the alarm bells, they know what they are talking about. All I keep on thinking is how satisfied Mr Putin is that our democracy is failing. This is no way to live.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
16. Thought it was just me who felt that way.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:25 AM
Oct 2017

The people who brought us Shrub, and Palin, and now Trump, clearly have no limit to their tolerance of sheer stupidity, but worse yet are the ones pulling the strings, who try to stay in the shadows.
and now movement to the far right is becoming global.
Don';t know if I will be around when the pendulum swings to the left again. It WILL, at some point, but how long...

Demtexan

(1,588 posts)
17. I wanted a kid or two but it did work out.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:29 AM
Oct 2017

Now I am really glad it did not.

I would hate to worrying about grandchildren.

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
21. I chose to not have kids when I was 12.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 01:07 AM
Oct 2017

I am a straight female but I knew that the world was a mess (Nixon was still the president) and I had a lot of issues that I didn't want to subject any child to. I didn't know if it was genetic or not but I just knew somehow that if I couldn't be 100% sure of being able to take care of myself I certainly couldn't and shouldn't even consider doing it to someone else. In high school my friends said that I would get married and have a dozen kids (they were also the same ones who harassed me for writing a pro-choice research paper). I got my tubes tied from Planned Parenthood for $99 in 1986 and since I was only 24 I had to attend a class and interview to make sure I knew what I was doing. The interviewer said he never met anyone so young who was so self aware. It was not a "good decision" it was the ONLY logical decision. Over the years I have said to myself a zillion times (especially lately) "Thank myself (I am an Atheist...no God to thank)that I made that decision!". When I read about climate change and when I see that humanity hasn't become any more humane than it was 2,000 years ago and that women are still treated like shit and the rich rule the world I am SOOOOO glad I listened to my gut instinct. I DID know and have known that the people on this planet are not something I want to be a part of or subject any innocent person to. I am glad that when I was a teacher I taught my students that the world is not fair but in our classroom it was a fair environment. I was the only first grade teacher who took her kids to the polls at the school every year and we voted with a secret ballot for everything from class parties to field trips. They learned how to be good citizens and 15 years later they still call me and write to me. I hope they pass it on...it is not my responsibility and they aren't my kids but I did the best I could while I could. I had to stop teaching a few years ago when I became too sick to continue. But I am still doing my best resisting the GOP as long as I can. I have always viewed things realistically (not negatively) since that is how I was raised. My 83 year old parents agree that the US and humanity in general is not progressing as it should have by now. I am so glad I do not have kids to feel guilty about since our future looks pretty bleak...as an American, a woman, and as a person on a planet which is being killed by greedy, selfish, inhumane people.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
22. Good on you for listening to your gut feelings
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 01:44 AM
Oct 2017

Has always worked for me.

Here is some perspective, btw....

I was 23, married, had 2 kids, did not want more, and wanted to get sterilized, to be in charge of my own birth control.
The "rule" then, made of course by white male doctors. was that your age x the number of kids you had, would be used to determine if you could stop breeding.
It was a crazy number, something like 100 was a passing score, and I only had 2 kids.
Talk about mandated pregnancy.
Even if you made the score, you had to get an ok from a psychiatrist, and 2 doctors, and of course your husband's written consent.
In 1970.
talk about a consciousness raising event.

My husband went and got a vasectomy. On his lunch hour. Without discussing it with me at all.
His rationale was "if you get sterilized, you might end up screwing around on me".
Welcome again to 1970.
( I divorced him, after I found out HE was not faithful)

1972...post divorce, I went on welfare with the kids, made plans to get an education and then work.
But divorced, on welfare was just the right combination, the state promptly gave me a free tubal ligation, cause they did not want any mothers on welfare to have more kids, which of course I knew.
No multiplication score, no psychiatrist, no multiple doc approval.

( I did get that education, ended up with a MSW degree).

so the ex ended up with no more kids, and the 2 boys we had, grew up to declare they were going to be childless, which of course means their father's name ends with them.

in the end...karma.

murielm99

(30,656 posts)
24. I remember those days.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 02:59 AM
Oct 2017

I got married in 1969. I went on the pill. After a year, I went to the doctor to renew my prescription. The doctor told me that since I had been married for a year, I should be adjusted to married life, and ready to start a family. He would not renew my prescription. WTF??

I found another doctor. I did not have my first child until I was thirty-one, ten years later.

When I told my son that story, he was dumbfounded.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
29. Holy shit.That doc musta hated the Women's Movement.
Mon Oct 16, 2017, 12:04 PM
Oct 2017

That does explain the attempts to resurrect the American Taliban, tho.

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