Roy Moore: Kneeling During Anthem Is Against the Law

[HAB911]

Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore claims that professional athletes kneeling during the national anthem is against the law. In an interview with TIME, published Wednesday, the far-right Republican argued that athletes protesting police brutality violate a section of the U.S. code on conduct while the national anthem is playing. “It’s against the law, you know that?” the former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice. “It was a act of Congress that every man stand and put their hand over their heart. That’s the law.” He added: “If they didn’t have it in there, it would just be tradition. But this is law. If we disobey this, what else are we going to disobey?” The candidate’s comments came without any acknowledgement of his own history with the law: Moore was suspended in 2016 for the remainder of his term after ordering Alabama judges to not enforce the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling—the law of the land—on same-sex marriage.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/roy-moore-kneeling-during-anthem-is-against-the-law

[Thomas Hurt]

1. another malignant narcissist who thinks reality is what ever pops into his twisted head.

[HughBeaumont]

2. NO. IT'S FUCKING NOT.

Oh my God, who takes these people seriously?

[Initech]

14. See also:

Amendment 1:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

These people do not know or care who they are hurting.

[Wwcd]

35. Molly Ivans already answered this debate:

"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag".
~Molly Ivins

[Different Drummer]

55. +100.

Welcome to DU!

[Wwcd]

58. Thanks. I needed a place to vent.

He's been dragging us through mental hell, sometimes you hit that wall of no return & just have to speak up.

[Different Drummer]

60. Amen! That's a big reason as to why I'm here. n/t

[SergeStorms]

63. Welcome....

and I think we're all here for the same reason. I like your sig line, loosely translated 'in the land of the blind that king has one eye'? Or something like that. It's been a long time since Latin class back in high school. I'm aware of the adage, "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King", but I've never seen it in Latin before. Or maybe I'm horribly wrong and it means 'Donald Trump is a big, fat turd".
Anyway, welcome to Democratic Underground, and feel free to commiserate to your heart's content. We're all in this together.

[Wwcd]

67. Yes, that is what it means, but "Trumpkins are stupid blind" fits also! Lol

"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King"

"The Italians have the same saying, “In un mondo di ciechi un orbo è re.”
The German people have their version of the proverb: “Those that rule must hear and be deaf, must see and be blind.”
And the French people also have their own version of the proverb: “When a blind man bears the standard, pity those who follow.”
Some say it’s a variation of a Bible quote found in Matthew 15:14 that states:

“If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

It’s also found in Luke 6:39 as:

“Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?”

I know it as an old Latin quote.

[tblue37]

68. In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king. That is a saying I

use all the time with my students when I explain that there is always a relative component to their grades. If everyone else is performing abysmally, then mediocrity can look good by comparison.

I also tell them the joke about two guys running from a grizzly bear. One says, "What's the use? We'll never outrun the bear!"

the other responds, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you.

[Dave Starsky]

65. She sure did have a way with words.

If only she could be around to write about the nightmare we're living through today.

[Hortensis]

29. +100. Barnett. But it would be if religious fascists got their way,

of course.

Birth of a new fascism? Trumpers meet theocrats at right-wing Christian conclave
Roy Moore says “the people of God are rising up,” while Sebastian Gorka hints at a sinister new alliance

Salon.

After all, fascism and conservative religion, fundamentalist especially, are natural, strongly authoritarian bedfellows, and many Americans find the burden of being free people too much and really feel a need to be told who to vote for and why, and a duty to follow.

Love how, for them, freedom is really mostly focused on control of their own money and property, while "small government" should never be too small to control what happens in our beds. And our churches.

[GoCubsGo]

3. Which law are we talking about, you asshole?

What "act of Congress"???

Another demented nutjob who makes shit up.

[Ms. Toad]

36. He's not entirely making it up.

Here's what he is referring to:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

But the first amendment freedom of expression to speak, or remain silent, whether by words or expressive conduct, trumps an ettiquette provision of the code.

[duhneece]

64. ? ...'should'... vs 'have to'...?

I don't know enough about the law to know how this difference affects the kneeling

[Ms. Toad]

69. Should is a recommendation, not a requirement. n/t

[duhneece]

80. That's what I thougt. Thank you. nt

[RKP5637]

4. What a shithead this guy is! n/t

[HopeAgain]

5. If it isn't illegal now, it will become illegal if these wackadoodles keep getting elected.

These at truly frightening times.

[Siwsan]

6. The average viewer of 'Law and Order' might know more about the law, than he does

I mean, damn!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Actually, it isn't against the law, and as a lawyer and former judge

he should know that.

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem

(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

It says "should," not "shall," "will" or "must." That means it's just advisory, not mandatory, and therefore it's not illegal to fail to do those things. If it was, they'd have to arrest half the beer-guzzling, hotdog-eating, sitting-on-their-asses, texting, nose-picking audience members at every sports event.

[defacto7]

12. He knows...

[maxsolomon]

15. No, he doesn't

And that's why he was a shitty judge.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. You're right. He also thinks US law is based on the bible, and not English Common Law

I despise Roy Moore. He represents everything wrong with Christianity run amok and he shouldn't be allowed within 1000 yards of the Capitol Building

Paraphrasing the great defense lawyer Gerry Spence;

"The only reason most attorneys seek a judgeship is because they were crappy lawyers to begin with"

[DinahMoeHum]

42. Hey Roy: FUCK YOUR "BUY-BULL" (shit)

Crusader Pig.

[SCantiGOP]

57. Ocelot is right

It says “should,” and there is no penalty attached.

[Stallion]

20. Every Attorney Knows the Difference in Words of Command ("shall) and Suggestion("should")

his argument is in bad faith

[defacto7]

41. I think you're correct.

Athough there is a lot of stupid going around I can't keep blaming stupid for every case of bad faith and twisted ideology that comes along. Right wing extremists especially rw religious extremists, make the law into whatever fits their belief quirk.

[WinkyDink]

47. Not to mention actual, you know, LAW and not merely suggested PROTOCOL.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

24. Here it is, for people who want to look it up.

I know you can find it, but I've been looking up regulations in the eCFR (Electronic Code of Federal Regulations) all day long, so I might as well throw in something from the U.S. Code.

I doubt it will set off a red flag for IT.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2016-title36/pdf/USCODE-2016-title36-subtitleI.pdf

Go on down to page 39 of the print edition, which is page 27 of the .pdf file.

"Should" this, "should" that, and "should" the other.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. See post #7.

[struggle4progress]

28. +

[WinkyDink]

45. Any CHILD knows there is no such law.

[3catwoman3]

66. The very idea that idiots like Moore and Gohmert...

...have been judges makes my blood run cold.

[sharp_stick]

8. The perfect example of a conservative christian

dumb as a bag of shit.

[Lifelong Protester]

9. Which law????

[Initech]

10. Really? Where does it say in the constitution?

Kneeling during the anthem was freedom of speech and freedom of protest last I checked.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. It's critical that

Reporters do their job and 'fact' check these interviews - especially when in print.

[Iliyah]

13. There seems to be more crazies in the GOPs

and more want to get high up in the political ladder to fuck up the USA.

[Alice11111]

16. and they get more looney tunes everyday.

[Yavin4]

21. And we all thought that Ted Cruz was crazy.

There's no limit to Republican crazy. They're like Batman villains. They get worse and worse.

[rock]

17. As no penalty is mentioned

It's a suggestion. Take it or leave it.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

18. If this keeps up, MEN WILL BE MARRYING MEN!!1!!1!!1! NT

[swimboy]

71. I married my husband 4 years ago

No damage to a single heterosexual marriage has resulted; further, there have been no reports of dogs marrying turtles.

[Yavin4]

19. Well, it's not like the guy knew the law and was a judge at one point.

Wait...what?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

22. Narrator (Ron Howard): "It isn't." nt

[louis-t]

25. Voting for Roy Moore should be against the law.

Crazy people.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. hahaha... yesss!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. At first, I thought this had to be an Onion satire article.

[haele]

30. There is no code on the National Anthem. There is a Flag Code, but that's code of conduct, not law.

The Flag Code also only applies - as a code of conduct, not anything actually legal with punitive measures - to government personnel and government property.
Unless we are in BizzaroLand and the NFL is part of the Government, players can do whatever they choose within the laws concerning public exhibition (i.e., they can't drop trow in public...) whenever the Flag is presented and the anthem played.

What a small-minded, snowglobe-dwelling Doofus. #notajudgeRoyMoore

Haele

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

33. There is a National Anthem Code. 36 U.S. Code 301. But it doesn't *require* you

to do anything.

(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

[haele]

34. I sit corrected. Still, there's nothing punitive in there, it's just a ceremonial description.

Haele

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

37. Exactly. It says, basically, it would be nice if you stood,

but you don't have to.

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. "Should" isn't the same as "Shall", Moore is a complete idiot I thought he was

some kind of lawyer.

[WinkyDink]

49. These are merely recommendations. NONE of it is LAW!!!!

[spanone]

31. says the southern white supremacist about the black athlete

[MiniMe]

39. What's scary is that this idiot is a judge, he is supposed to know the law

[defacto7]

46. I'm sure he does.

He just wants it to do what he wants, even if he has to step on it and twist it to meet his will.

[aikoaiko]

43. Well, he certainly found his niche of RW kookiness.

its very sad

[WinkyDink]

44. O.M.G. There should be a law against such incredible stupidity.

[NutmegYankee]

48. American ISIS n/t.

[WinkyDink]

50. Look, people; it's ALSO "CODE" that the US flag not fly in inclement weather. But it isn't against

the LAW if it does!

One looks to LAWS to know what is legal or not, NOT to "CODES."

[Ms. Toad]

59. The US Code (not the flag code) is the law.

36 United States Code Sec. 301, specifically.

However, this particular law does not REQUIRE compliance. The language is permissive (should), not mandatory (shall).

[PoliticAverse]

51. Who taught him Constitutional Law 101? n/t

[mahatmakanejeeves]

72. University of Alabama Law School

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore

[ecstatic]

52. Nice try, Moore, but we're not there... yet.. We still have rights.

Who knows for how much longer but right now we still have the right to free speech and freedom of religion. I don't have to do shit for a flag or racist song if I don't feel like it. Oh, and FUCK YOU!!!

[syringis]

53. As legal professional...

He have an hazardous and arbitrary interpretation of the legislation...

It is not the first time.

As if he found his diploma in a lucky bag rather than being graduated from an university.

[NutmegYankee]

56. If you really want to blow his mind, ask about Jehovah's Witnesses.

They do not believe in flag ceremonies including the pledge. They consider it a prayer to a worldly thing (country) and not God. And yet - It's Freedom of Religion!

[louis-t]

61. I'll be sure to give him a seig heil next time I see him.

Fucking idiot.

[SergeStorms]

62. Moore doesn't know....

shit from shine-ola. That reminds me of Steve Martin in 'The Jerk'. I'm too lazy right now or I'd go look for it.

[SCantiGOP]

70. Supporting Trump is illegal

Believe me.

By the way, I am as accurate and as qualified to make that statement as Moore was.

[Orrex]

73. Roy Moore can shove a 10 commandments monument up his stupid ass.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Or Two!

I'm good with either option.

[Orrex]

76. Well, how many asses does he have?

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Just The One

I was hoping to increase the discomfort!

[spanone]

74. what an ignorant man.

[Orrex]

78. Sounds like Roy LESS. Amirite?

Heigh-o!

[ExciteBike66]

79. Roy Moore: A judge who doesn't know how to read.

36 US Code 301: (C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

The operative word there is "should". Any judge "should" be able to tell you that "should" does not mean "must".

[Generic Other]

81. It's also against the law to put the Ten Commandments in front of a courthouse

It didn't stop this scofflaw!