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Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:14 AM

They raped my Grandmother, lynched my Uncle, broke up my family-you find honor, you racist prick?

Wendell Pierce
While they raped my Grandmother,lynched my Uncle,broke up my family to lost history, you find honor & compromise in that, you racist, prick?









http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ta-nehisi-coates-john-kelly-civil-war?utm_content=buffer4e8b5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

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Reply They raped my Grandmother, lynched my Uncle, broke up my family-you find honor, you racist prick? (Original post)
kpete Oct 2017 OP
MagickMuffin Oct 2017 #1
rainin Oct 2017 #2
IronLionZion Oct 2017 #10
maddiemom Nov 2017 #51
saidsimplesimon Oct 2017 #26
StrictlyRockers Oct 2017 #3
packman Oct 2017 #4
Ligyron Oct 2017 #21
Ukapau Oct 2017 #5
tulipsandroses Oct 2017 #9
Meowmee Oct 2017 #29
yardwork Oct 2017 #38
DesertRat Oct 2017 #25
HopeAgain Oct 2017 #6
Submariner Oct 2017 #11
maddiemom Oct 2017 #14
HopeAgain Oct 2017 #16
Yupster Oct 2017 #37
yardwork Oct 2017 #39
Yupster Oct 2017 #40
yardwork Oct 2017 #41
treestar Oct 2017 #24
Ellen Forradalom Oct 2017 #7
rpannier Nov 2017 #43
peggysue2 Oct 2017 #8
Ukapau Oct 2017 #12
onit2day Oct 2017 #17
peggysue2 Oct 2017 #22
atreides1 Nov 2017 #46
MichMary Oct 2017 #28
RandomAccess Oct 2017 #31
maxrandb Oct 2017 #32
SCantiGOP Oct 2017 #13
SunSeeker Oct 2017 #15
scarletwoman Oct 2017 #18
47of74 Oct 2017 #19
Initech Oct 2017 #20
ChubbyStar Oct 2017 #23
Name removed Oct 2017 #27
Progressive dog Oct 2017 #30
SaschaHM Oct 2017 #33
workinclasszero Oct 2017 #34
Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2017 #35
Yupster Oct 2017 #42
maddiemom Nov 2017 #47
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2017 #48
maddiemom Nov 2017 #49
zentrum Oct 2017 #36
Name removed Nov 2017 #44
pokerfan Nov 2017 #45
maddiemom Nov 2017 #50
pokerfan Nov 2017 #52

Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:31 AM

1. Was your Granny wearing something provocative?


There are "preachers" who claim women wearing provocative clothing is asking to be raped and apparently they think these women deserve it.


Wendell, I'm sorry for what happened to your family and all the other families that were subjected to terrorism by the (fill in the blank) _________________!!!

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:45 AM

2. I'll fill in the blank

CHRISTIAN RIGHT!!

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:44 AM

10. Dark skin has provoked whites to violence many times throughout history

the ideology of humans as property means they don't really feel they need consent to have sex with property. The same with people who are considered inferior somehow.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:12 AM

51. Yep. Dark skin can still be pretty provocative.

Interesting, after all these years, that President Obama and many other successful public figures, and just normal people who are half white are still considered black. We don't have, and really should not have, a modern day simple term for mixed race that is in use. So...it's just kind of bizarre that the old rules of a drop or two of black blood makes someone black still are in use IF the individual has darker skin. Otherwise, who would know, without personally being aware of an individual's family background?

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Response to MagickMuffin (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 02:05 PM

26. Muffin

Women are proud to disrespect so-called men who do not respect women.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:49 AM

3. They consistently use the tactic of accusing the other side of things they themselves are guilty of.

It seems to work because Rethuglicans are so dumb, they will believe anything.

It's disheartening to see it, but this is what we are faced with. The cognitive dissonance is real. A third of the country will believe any lie that is consistent with their pre-held beliefs, rather than face a reality that is jarring & requires honest reflection. Analysis is hard. Sticking to your beliefs is way easier.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:02 AM

4. The trouble with history is that it is not personal

It ignores the people involved in it. Easy to say, as Kelly did, that Lee was honorable and the Civil War could have been avoided by compromise, but that removes one from the humans involved on a daily basis in the horror of slavery. I would think that a general would almost have to think that way - not excusing Kelly who has lost his honor and integrity in his enslavement to Trump's and the right wing ideology.

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Response to packman (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 01:14 PM

21. In order to be ok with slavery one has to think of slaves as something less than human.

That way they're like livestock and it's justifiable. Once one realizes they are as human as you are, slavery become the horror it truly is.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:14 AM

5. Remarkably stupid and heartless of Kelly! And certainly racist!

 

In order to curry favor with the orange president, he came out with this utter BS!

I imagine that many, many military people are cringing, and certainly are glad the North won the Civil War. Kelly seems to be supporting the slave-owners' point of view.

And thus Trump continues to corrupt everyone close to him!

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Response to Ukapau (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:35 AM

9. I am not going to blame Trump for Kelly

I think he's showing his true colors.

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Response to tulipsandroses (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 02:31 PM

29. Agree

He’s shown his true colors

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Response to tulipsandroses (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:17 PM

38. I blame Trump for choosing racist loser Kelly as his chief of staff.

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Response to Ukapau (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 01:41 PM

25. Certainly! Some call him an oaf, a buffoon

Welcome to DU!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:21 AM

6. What the hell compromise could have avoided the civil war...

That didn't include the continued enslavement of human beings?

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:50 AM

11. This?

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:00 PM

14. The "Missouri Compromise"?

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:22 PM

16. Exactly, still involved slavery and didn't work

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 08:43 PM

37. I believe he was referring to the Crittenden Committee

They tried to reach a last minute compromise once Lincoln was elected. Lincoln is blamed for its failure as he wouldn't give Seward instructions on what he would or wouldn't accept since he was only president-elect, not yet president.

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Response to Yupster (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:18 PM

39. There was no compromise possible.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #39)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:38 PM

40. Remember Lincoln ran on the platform that he was no threat to the south's system of slavery

He wanted to keep it from territories, not ban it where it already was.

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Response to Yupster (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:55 PM

41. And that was not enough for the slave-owning states.

Older sons inherited their father's entire estates. That meant that younger sons had to find their own land and build their own plantations. They wanted to take over the new territories to the west. They wanted those new states to be slave-owning states. As the country expanded west, the war was inevitable.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 01:30 PM

24. All I can think of is that they would agree

to phase out slavery over a time period and pay wages. Find a way to do it peacefully, but yeah, it had to end and they weren't up for that.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:28 AM

7. Oh, really? Perhaps counting slaves as two-fifths of a person

would've avoided the Civil War?

Where one of these people says "compromise," they mean "my way or the highway."

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Response to Ellen Forradalom (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 03:54 AM

43. Conservative Compromise

Give us everything plus 10%
That way now. Was that way then

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:28 AM

8. At a loss

I'm at a complete loss when it comes to Kelly and how thoroughly he's been swept into this sewer. His comments on Robert E. Lee are inexplicable when one considers the carnage of the Civil War. And yes, there was a dispute over slavery but there was no compromise in the face of decency to be made. Although I accept that we cannot judge our ancestors with today's yardsticks, there is a limit when it comes to basic morality. There were not two objective truths to the argument. One cannot ascribe 'good faith' to those who approved and were willing to break the Nation over human bondage.

Robert E. Lee had the advantage of wealth and education. To his shame, he chose to be on the wrong side of history. That is not the mark of nobility or honor. Seen in its best light the stance is arrogant. At it's worst? Immoral and treasonous.

This 'both sides are equal' is eerily like the Trumpster's comments on Charlottesville.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:50 AM

12. "Besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" Lee's traitorous behavior

 

in the Civil War should not be celebrated, as Kelly comes close to suggesting.

Lee, himself, decreed that at his funeral, there would be no Confederate flags or uniforms. He was not at all interested in statues continuing to promote the South's causes.

Too bad Kelly didn't learn this lesson from Lee.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:29 PM

17. also, why even bring it up or make the comments

 

What was the point of going there?

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Response to onit2day (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 01:23 PM

22. Right, you are

Why? Why bring this up after the Wilson debacle? Why bring it up at all? To start another diversion for the Boss or appease the Trumpkins so he can remain in place?

None of it makes sense. Whatever reputation Kelly had is forever ruined. Like Lee, he made the choice. Trump-stink will have a long afterlife.


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Response to onit2day (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 10:12 AM

46. It's simple

Mr. Kelly was swearing his loyalty to Trump...in much the same way that Klan members swear their loyalty to the Klan!!!

And it had to be a public declaration of loyalty, something that Kelly wouldn't be able to back track on later!!!

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 02:26 PM

28. I'll admit

to being a bit naive, but when I heard that he had said "compromise," I immediately thought of federal subsidies so that slaves could be freed and wages paid so that the plantations could continue to run.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 04:41 PM

31. Swept into this sewer?

 

The MSM media has done their best to lionize him, but believe me, he's no saint:


HE'S A TERRIBLE PERSON, AND THAT'S NOT NEW: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029734484#post38

JOHN KELLY: THE FACTS https://www.aclu.org/other/john-kelly-facts

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:05 PM

32. Kelly was in the Fucking sewer long before he started

Working for Donnie Short Fingers.

Just because you wear a uniform, it doesn't give you honor or integrity.

I worked for 7 Flag Officers as an executive assistant or aide during my military service.

5 of them I would have gone through a wall for. 2 of them would have caused me to take a sledgehammer to my knee if I was ever going to be assigned to them again.

Kelly was a racist prick long before Donnie Short Fingers made him a racist prick Chief of Staff

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 11:51 AM

13. Keep it up, keep it up

I really don't think that embracing the Confederacy, outside of the the Deep South where they are going to win anyway, is any kind of winning campaign strategy.
The tweet above is from an African American, but a lot of those white working-class Trump voters in the Midwest also had family members killed fighting the treason of the slaveholders.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:18 PM

15. K & R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:34 PM

18. An excellent comment at the bottom of the page with the Ta-Nehisi Coates piece:

If I say slavery is bad,
and you say it's good,
let's compromise,
and you be a slave.

Keith Boykin

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:56 PM

19. Lee was a traitor who got off way too light.

The entire south got off way too light after their war of aggression and treason against the United States.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 01:05 PM

20. We should have tried Lee and the traitors.

Why we didn't will forever remain a mystery to me.

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Response to Initech (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 01:28 PM

23. Money. End. Of. Story.

Same as it ever was.

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Response to kpete (Original post)


Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 04:28 PM

30. The only compromise should have been

after the traitors were beaten. There were lots of "compromises" before those scum decided to fire on loyal Americans. The Constitution even gave the traitorous scum an extra six-tenths of a vote for every person they enslaved and they wanted more.
Lee and the other head traitors were responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths. They should have been tried and punished for their crimes. Americans don't defend statues of murderous traitors, but so called general Kelly does.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:12 PM

33. Ta-Nehisi Coates shredded John Kelly's statement on twitter w/ a very informative thread.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:16 PM

34. These neo confederate racists are the enemy

 

backed by a Russian dictator and his puppet stooge installed in the white house.

The hundreds of thousands of American patriots that fought and died to preserve this nation from confederate traitors and slavers in the first place must be spinning in their graves at the shit coming down from pResdient RAT and filthy administration stooges like Kelly!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 06:22 PM

35. With malice toward none, with charity for all...

Lincoln thought he could ennoble the errant South by treating them with forgiveness and respect.

He was wrong. It simply emboldened them that their cause was righteous and they are still fighting for it. Of course, it's not only the South, but if those traitors had been handled with more justice and less consolation, maybe those attitudes would have faded rather than spread.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #35)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 10:52 PM

42. If Lincoln would have lived

things would have worked out a lot better.

He was dead within six weeks of saying those words.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 12:19 PM

47. Lincoln didn't mean to "enoble" the South, just forgive them, basically.

In terms of extended families the Civil War was a hot mess. "Brother against Brother" wasn't so far off the mark. This sort of struggle has been used in fiction so often, that we tend to forget that it wasn't JUST fiction. There were still some veterans around when I (first of the "baby boomers') was growing up.

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 2, 2017, 05:27 PM

48. I meant "ennoble" in the sense of making them see themselves as better than they were.

To not call them evil, though they were, in the hope they would stop being so.

But, I've reread the entire Second Inaugural Address and some discussion of it since posting that, and I'm not really sure what to think he meant. I'd forgotten there was so much religiosity in the speech. "It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged."

How do you fight a bloody battle against something unless you judge it to be wrong?

Anyway, I do tend to agree with the Radical Republicans of the day who thought he was being too forgiving of the South.

Regarding his plan for reunification:
Lincoln hoped that the leniency of the plan—90 percent of the 1860 voters did not have to swear allegiance to the Union or to emancipation—would bring about a quick and long-anticipated resolution and make emancipation more acceptable everywhere.

This approach appealed to some in the moderate wing of the Republican Party, which wanted to put the nation on a speedy course toward reconciliation. However, the proposal instantly drew fire from a larger faction of Republicans in Congress who did not want to deal moderately with the South. These members of Congress, known as Radical Republicans, wanted to remake the South and punish the rebels. Radical Republicans insisted on harsh terms for the defeated Confederacy and protection for former slaves, going far beyond what the president proposed.
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/ushistory2os2xmaster/chapter/restoring-the-union/

But who knows? One of the problems with something as horrific and destructive as slavery is that there is no way of ending it that ends up with all being well. Certainly not immediately, probably not ever.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #48)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:08 AM

49. Interesting. Food for further thought.

Religiosity was was pretty routine in speeches at that time.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Oct 31, 2017, 07:57 PM

36. White Supremacists

....always give themselves a pass. They are always "innocent".

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Response to kpete (Original post)


Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Nov 1, 2017, 05:11 AM

45. Ken Burns...

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #45)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:11 AM

50. AKA "States' Rights."

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #50)

Sun Nov 5, 2017, 08:05 PM

52. My high school US History teacher tried to teach us that crap

Even gave me a D for the course for not buying into it. Only D I ever received, high school or college. Thanks a lot, teach.

Right. Confederate states wanted the right to own people as livestock. Got it.

Of course they sang a different tune when it came to enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act, a federal law. Where was the states rights argument allowing northerners to opt out of that one, huh?

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