Implications Of An Ann Romney/Refalca Dressage Medal Bid/Win

[stlsaxman]

The horse is Refalca, co-owned by Ann Romney and trainer Jan Ebeling, who will be riding the 15-year old Oldenburg mare in dressage events at the Summer Olympics in London this month.

What effect will the winning/losing of an Ann Romney Olympic contest have, if any, on the Romney campaign?

These questions have been in the back of my mind ever since it was announced that she was entering the contest and I've been playing around with what the implications, if any, might be.

It's all meant in good fun and i don't hate her for anything... heck- let her ride her horsey!

I'll be watching with millions of others with interest and, honestly happy for her if she wins.

10 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Her Olympic bid will have no effect at all.
	1 (10%)
	Her Olympic bid will be seen as a novelty and nothing more.
	1 (10%)
	Her Olympic bid will be seen sympathetically as something she does to cope with her Multiple Sclerosis.
	1 (10%)
	Her Olympic bid will be seen as an example of elitist falderall and showing off.
	6 (60%)
	Her Olympic bid will be percieved as an Marie Antoinette "Cake" moment.
	0 (0%)
	If she wins a medal it's because she was that good.
	0 (0%)
	If she doesn't win a medal it's because the judges were fair.
	1 (10%)
	If she wins a medal it's because she and her husband purchased it/bribed the judges.
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[Kalidurga]

1. You forgot

It gives us an opening to talk about the other horse. The one they doped because it had a bad foot and couldn't dance. After successfully disguising the fact the horse couldn't dance without extreme pain they sold it for over 100,000 dollars. When the new owner discovered the fraud the Romney's almost landed in hot water. This was avoided when they settled out of court.

[stlsaxman]

7. +1 DUly noted!

[riderinthestorm]

14. The doping case for the rMOney's is a far more effective attack than Ann's support of an Olympic

athlete - equine or human.

[MADem]

22. Also, Annie's not riding this hoss. It's like rich people with show dogs, they hire one of

"you people" to do the actual WORK of trotting that animal around the ring!!!

[magical thyme]

27. +1. you nailed it. nt

[KamaAina]

3. Anne Boleyn did not, to my knowledge, have a "cake" moment

That was Marie Antoinette. (And even hers may be apocryphal.)

[GoneOffShore]

5. I was going to comment but you beat me to it.

[cthulu2016]

6. It is said...

That she literally said, "Let them eat crust," which is far crueler. (But not comically clueless)

[MADem]

23. Unless the executioner told her that her beheading would be a piece of cake...

[treestar]

4. I don't think it will matter a whole lot

But it will get some people to realize how elitist the Rmoneys are.

[stlsaxman]

8. Corrected- thanks everyone!

Brain farts are the bain of my existence these days.

[nenagh]

9. Photos, lots of photos...

[tokenlib]

10. NBC Olympic coverage will paint it warm and fuzzy MS therapy for Mrs. Romney....

get out the anti-nausea drugs...

[rockinrobyn]

11. As someone with Multiple Sclerosis...........

I have has MS for 9 years, and can tell you firsthand that exercise ans any form of stress relief is invaluable at preventing relapses.I swim, but if my passion was riding, and I could afford it, I would be doing it at every possible moment. Especially considering how many personal attacks she is facing from people criticizing her- she is going to need it more than that to try to slow the progress of this horrible disease. My heart goes out to her, regardless of what I think of her husband.

[jberryhill]

12. She is not riding this horse

She is a part owner of this horse, which is ridden by other people.

Her "exercise" in relation to this horse consists of sitting and watching.

[riderinthestorm]

13. She does ride though, daily. Supporting the sport of dressage and an Olympic pair is giving back

in a major way.

Therapeutic riding for disabled people is very well proven for many types of disabilities and being deliberately obtuse about THIS horse vs Ann's regular riding for her MS is getting pretty desperate.

[jberryhill]

16. Giving back?

It was a $77,000 deduction on their taxes.

Every other taxpayer "gave it back" for them.

[riderinthestorm]

19. That's a small fraction of what it costs to own, train and compete an international level horse.

By "giving back" I mean that she committed to sponsoring a pair at the highest levels which costs the big bucks.

[MADem]

21. It would seem, though, that "we the people" are unwittingly and unwillingly sponsoring these horses-

--even if we are not paying the full freight, why should we even be paying a thin dime? Put that money into Headstart or school lunches.

I am all for hippotherapy--I know it works a treat for autistic kids and others. But you don't need a fancy ass horse to do that--the old gray mare, so long as she is pleasant, will do just fine.

However, having my tax dollars go towards a refund for Miss Annie's penchant for dancing horses is just not a good use of taxpayer cash. If you're rich enough to torture a horse to prance unnaturally, you're rich enough to pay the full freight yourself.

Annie can sell off seventy seven of her silk tee shirts, and she can carry that weight herself.

[magical thyme]

26. agreed on all points except two

Dressage is not torturing a horse to prance unnaturally.

1. Dressage does not involve torture unless, like the Romney's, you have a horse with a congenital defect that has over time left it unfit for dressage and instead of using a few surplus thousand dollars out of your hundreds of millions to humanely retire that horse, you drug it up, keep it going well past its expiration date and then pawn it off for $125K on somebody else.

2. The only thing "unnatural" about dressage is sitting on a horse's back, which makes *all* horseback riding, including hippotherapy, unnatural. All dressage movements are based on horse's natural movements at play.

Edited to add this: there was a point in time, decades ago, when a gifted 99%er could rescue a slow (but athletic in other ways) thoroughbred off the track for low cost and, with hard work and sacrifice, train that horse up to the Olympic levels on their own. That still happens in jumping and combined training. But the 1%ers turned dressage, which depends on more subjective scoring methods, into a multi-million dollar business, effectively pricing the vast majority out of contention while enabling their chosen few servants.

There was also a time when the 1%ers supported dressage for the masses by loaning their semi-retired and even actively competing horses to talented 99% students to learn on. Now they ride them into the ground, drug them if needed, and then sell them to desperate 99% who probably has to take out a mortgage to get a shot at their dream.

I was fortunate to have gotten my foundation in dressage in the old days. I learned the movements on a semi-retired grand prix horse and an actively competing and performing grand prix horse, along with 4 other young horses in training, all on loan from a 1%er.

That, to me, is truly supporting the art of dressage by making it available to anybody with the passion and talent and work ethic for it.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Her horse BUSINESS took the deductions that gave them the refund.

Just like me (and my small incorporated horse business) and the (incorporated) therapeutic riding center across town.

We can debate how the rMoney's are gaming the tax system all you like. We all agree it has all the appearance that their finances appear to border on the criminal but the facts are that dressage at that level is BIG business which is why they are getting a refund. I've said it in other posts and I'll reiterate it here - I would LOVE to get a look at how they've structured their business to get such a refund. Love to see it.

However, you don't seem to be focusing on Ann and Mitt's potential gaming of the tax code. You seem to be saying anyone whose business revolves around animals should not report under the same rules as other businesses?

Lastly, dressage is not unnatural. Unless you think the therapeutic riding programs across the US are also unnatural, or getting on any horse's back is unnatural. Yes, dressage is riding taken to its highest art but then so is dog agility or dolphin work outs - those moves are things an animal do on their own but now the owner/trainer is maximizing the skill and bringing it out on command.

[MADem]

31. I am focusing on Ann and Mitt's gaming of the tax code--no "seem to" about it.

Why someone with a husband who has a hundred million dollar IRA is getting a penny from a tax refund--and why the cheap bastard would even ASK for it--is beyond me.

At some point in time, you don't nickle and dime "We, the YOU (little) PEOPLE." Not if you have an ounce of class. Which they don't.

I see that you are heavily invested in defense of dressage, and that's fine for you. I still find it quirky and odd and you will not change my mind on this point. It's one thing to use a horse as a beast of burden, for the purposes of getting from point A to Point B, either carrying people or pulling a wagon, it's another thing entirely to force (or "command&quot it to "play" with some huge person on its back. Now, if someone could stand on the sidelines and have the horse go through the paces without a rider, solely on voice command, as happens with dog agility (no one is riding Rover when he runs through the nylon cloth tunnel) I might be a tad more impressed...but probably not.

It just looks frou-frou-stupid to me. An awful lot of work for very little pay-off. Sorry.

And a prancing horse competing for points does not compare in the slightest to a trotting old horse ameliorating hypersensitivity or opening up sensory pathways for disabled children and young adults. I don't see any comparison between the two whatsoever, save that both involve horses.

[riderinthestorm]

32. Its a business and unless you want ALL animal business to operate under a different tax code

(which you seem to be implying), then the rMoney's are doing what all of the rest of us with a business do - try to work their taxes to the best of their ability.

That said, I agree 110% that there's probably some criminal stretching on their business write-offs and would love to see how they do it.

Furthermore I'll say that people can and do have their horses do these things on voice commands alone, standing on the sidelines (you've probably seen a modified version of this yourself if you've ever gone to the circus). The Spanish Riding School - the world's greatest institution dedicated to the preservation of dressage - has an entire part of their daily demonstration which is unmounted and showing you the same things they'll do later on under saddle.

But since you've already closed your ears to anything I have to say about it (which says a whole lot about you and your willingness to keep an open mind) I'll simply leave it at that.

[magical thyme]

36. "It's one thing to use a horse as a beast of burden, for the purposes of getting from point A to Poi

Point B, either carrying people or pulling a wagon, it's another thing entirely to force (or "command&quot it to "play" with some huge person on its back."

You seem to think horses are born knowing how to carry people or pull a wagon.

They are not. They have to learn to do those things. Dressage is simply a system of training of educating both horse and rider for any job -- including hippotherapy -- in a humane way that facilitates communication.

It is part of dressage training whether you are introducing them to bridle, saddle or harness, teaching them go, stop, turn left, turn right...all the way through the most advanced levels. At any point in time in the training, depending on the horse's native abilities and preferences, they may branch off into another specialty. Only a very few specialize in the core discipline of dressage and follow it through to the highest levels.

Hippotherapy requires a particularly calm, reliable, steadfast, trusting and trustworthy horse with easy gaits to ride. Those horses received basic dressage training, whether it was formal or by chance. But the calm, reliable, steadfast, trusting and trustworthy qualities are maintained and developed as a result of the dressage. They could easily be spoiled and permanently lost by abuse.

That some people believe that horses are being forced is a misconception based, I think, on the idea that some hippotherapists promote, that children learn they can "control" the horse and as a result develop confidence, or something to that effect.

In fact, the rider does not control the horse. The rider learns *self-control*, developing qualities such as patience and emotional control, since reacting to an unexpected situation with fear or anger will only make the situation worse. They also develop coordination to an extreme degree, along with improved control of their own bodies, potentially very high degrees of physical fitness and improved posture.

The personal qualities can be lost through competition and focus on winning ribbons at all costs versus getting better at "playing with your horse." That situation exists in *all* sports. It is not unique to dressage and it something that needs constantly to be fought.

That riding relies on physical language, with cues through subtle shifts in balance, light touches with leg or squeezing reins, is due to horse's innate communication skills.

But horses can and do perform dressage by voice. There are people who "play" with their horses in that way. Here is one of the most advanced maneuvers being performed by voice request:

Piaffe at liberty:


In the end, of course, you are welcome to view dressage as silly. Personally, I find football silly. I was bored silly at the one baseball game I attended. Basketball -- silly. Golf -- silly, boring and the clothes are ridiculous.

[MADem]

38. No, I don't "seem to think" that at all. I know if horses had their druthers and a ready supply of

food, they'd be happy as hell to run wild....but that "horse," as it were, has left the barn for them.

FWIW, I find football a bit silly, too and most sports when they take it too far. I think the shorts in basketball are hilarious--from tiny tight to absurdly long and loose. And people haven't worn "golf togs" for a half century, except to call attention to themselves (street clothes are more the norm) and yeah, golf is silly, too--a good walk spoiled.

Of course, the people playing the football, basketball, golf, etc. are very often getting paid great money to do so, or they're getting some exercise of their own volition. And the spectators? They choose to pay the money to look at that stuff--no one is taking it out of their taxes and giving it to a zillionaire to defray "his" expenses.

I haven't seen any dressage horses in hippotherapy, myself. It's usually just old horses that will walk in a circle and not scare little kids.

[magical thyme]

40. your tone, word choice, what you respond to and what you choose to ignore says it all

You haven't seen *advanced* dressage horses in hippotherapy. The fact that the horses will walk in a circle and not scare little kids indicates those horses were trained without abuse or force. The training is the dressage....even if it's just to walk in a circle.

Dressage means "training" and follows a systematic practice, versus, say the "bronc riding" of western folklore.

There are plenty of horses fully capable of jumping out of their pastures and running wild...they choose not to. Maybe because in the wild they are prey, often go hungry or thirsty, have no medical attention or protection if injured or sick, and live very short lives.

My horses both have a ready supply of food and have been free to run wild on a couple occasions when somebody trespassed and opened the gate wide up. They prefer to stay home.

The horse/human relationship is a symbiotic one. For many of us, it is as close to the dog/human relationship as you can get without having them move into your home.

For my arabian's ancestors, the horses did live in the home as the Bedouin's horses are known to be "in your tent" horses.

But, you know what? Whatever

[MADem]

41. Just stop doing that. Stop. Don't tell me about my "tone" when your read of it is all wrong.

I've made it plain I don't like seeing horses forced into that practice. You apparently like it and you are pissed off at me because I don't see things YOUR way, so you're making acerbic comments that suggest that I have a low "level of knowledge"--i.e. I'm stupid and you're smarter than me, because I don't see things YOUR way--all I know is what my lying eyes tell me, and I don't think that kind of crap is very much fun for a horse.

I'm not talking about horses that have been domesticated, here, who have been trained to accommodate a rider, to be calm, to not buck, etc., --I'm talking about all that frou-frou prancing and jumping with someone in a fancy outfit sitting on top of them. You know that's what I am talking about, I'm quite sure.

But here's the thing--I don't mind that you don't agree with ME. REALLY. I know my opinion isn't going to change minds about this "sport," and that's fine. But don't talk to me about my "tone" or suggest I'm a nitwit just because I'm not going to go along with your way of thinking. Reasonable people can differ on topics. It can and does happen. I'm not going to suggest that you are stupid because you don't see things my way, or make snitty remarks about your "tone" or "word choice" because you won't jump on my bandwagon.

Try it sometimes. People do have a right to hold varied views and they often do.

You won't bend me to your will with scolding or personal comments, it has the opposite effect, in fact.

[magical thyme]

42. I do not care whether you appreciate dressage or not,nor am I trying to bend you to my will

There are people on this board who currently make their living teaching and training dressage. There are other people on this board who used to do that (myself included).

For our sake, I feel it's important to correct misinformation for others who may be wasting their time reading this.

1. dressage does not involve force. Period. That's not a matter of opinion. That is a matter of fact. Force goes against the very principals of dressage. If it involves force, it is not dressage. Very simply, horses are about 8-10 times the size of a human. When I am ground driving my filly as a steering and brakes exercise, I am standing just a couple feet behind her, within easy reach of her heels. She could kick me to smithereens if she chose. She also can break free and make a run for it any time she likes -- she's done it when she got spooked, she knows she can do it. She chooses not to.

2. There are people who do dressage training, up to and including the advanced movements, "at liberty" with their horses. That would be by voice command.

3. dressage riders aren't "some huge person." They are the same size as other people.

Again, I don't care whether you, personally, are impressed or not. I honestly don't give a flying eff what you think. But I will correct misinformation.


You have made clear you consider dressage:
quirky and odd
force (or "command&quot it to "play"
with some huge person on its back
looks frou-frou-stupid
lot of work for very little pay-off

That is your choice. Again, I do not care. I do wonder what the hell "frou-frou" is supposed to mean, but, whatever. I described the above statements as "tone" because I used to be a professional writer and that is how we refer to such statements and word choices. As tone of voice.

The statements you wrote above make it clear how you feel about dressage. B.F.D.

You also have chosen to ignore every statement I've made above agreeing with you. And finally, on the subject of ignore...welcome to it.

[MADem]

43. As a professional writer, you'd probably recognize "huffy" and "shirty" too.

That is how you are coming across. It's just a difference of opinion--not World War Three.

You are hyper sensitive, so putting me on ignore is probably a good thing. It will enhance your DU experience, and likely, mine as well.

[rockinrobyn]

44. Actually..

Actually, she helped train this horse and other horses. She rides the horse, just not for the competition.

[Marrah_G]

35. I'll save my pity for the lives her husband has destroyed

I don't have time to spend feeling bad for a woman who has the best of everything, including healthcare, has zero stress in life unless she chooses it, has never done any work in her entire life and lives like a queen off of money her husband has stolen from the working class and continues to hide in offshore tax free havens.

[rockinrobyn]

45. Ooooooo

You have no idea what MS is like. It is different for all, and no money in the world is going to help her pain or humiliation when she can't control her bowels, or bladder, or she can't walk out of her house, or is so tired she can't pick up her head! You are absolutely heartless. This isn't about Mitt...its about a woman who suffers from an incurable disease. I wonder is you have/had little sympathy for Greg Louganis, Magic Johnson, Anthony Perkins, and everyone else with the terrible diease of HIHIV and AIDS. It doesn't get better. It is progressive, and nothing is going to make you "feel better".

[Marrah_G]

47. If any of those people lived off destroying other people's lives, I would feel the same way.

I am not heartless, the Romney's are heartless.

I'll save my pity for those who are not destroying the lives of others to enrich their already rich lives.

[riderinthestorm]

15. Rafalca won't come close to winning so the point is moot. And don't we support American athletes?

Honestly, slamming any American athlete at the Olympic games just feels off unless they're a known criminal. This horse is not a criminal.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

17. Who's the rider?

I haven't read about anyone slamming the rider or the horse.

[stlsaxman]

18. thank you.

[riderinthestorm]

20. Jan Ebeling. There have been many slams about "Ann's horse" and this sport.

Granted most of its in the context of an attack on dressage and its theoretical "elitism" but the meaning's pretty clear.

Many Olympic sports athletes have big sponsors - either private ones or public corporations. That Ann rMoney sponsors this pair has somehow taken on a life of its own. I'm guessing the slams would be the same if she were sponsoring a fencer, a rower or a tennis player.

[MADem]

25. Me neither. And ain't it special to take bows as the sponsor when taxpayers are paying a

fair chunk of the freight!

If she's going to be the sponsor, then just do it; skip buying a few of those silk tee shirts, maybe wait a year or two before replacing that caddy and use the dough for My Little Pony--don't nickle-and-dime us for tax kickbacks, particularly when your sleazy spouse won't even release his tax returns so we can see how much dough We, The "You People" paid for that horse this past year.

Fuck Annie and the horse she rode in on.

[MADem]

24. No one is slamming the horse--we're slamming an obscenely rich woman for nickle-and-diming the

American taxpayers for a "refund" on her luxury item--that horse.

I think most people pity the horse for such a lousy life he must lead. It's like those old westerns where the bully in the saloon shoots bullets at some poor hapless cowpoke's feet and hollers "Dance!!!!! DANCE!!!!!!!!!"

[riderinthestorm]

29. See post #28. I'm not going to answer the same points over and over. nt

[malaise]

30. Huh? USA has one bronze in this event - in 1932

http://www.databaseolympics.com/sport/sportevent.htm?sp=EQU&enum=150

The Europeans particularly the Swedes, Germans and the Dutch own this.

[magical thyme]

33. it's not something that can be bought

The Europeans have generations of disciplined practice; dressage training is the foundation of all their riding and they understand that.

American 1%ers keep trying to shortcut by trying to buy their way into it. Unfortunately, they are the ones that continue to make certain the the US will never do well, by forcing out any serious competition at home, leaving opportunities only to those who are less gifted at riding and training than at being sycophants.

Romney and Ebeling are perfect examples. Ebeling is basically in the US because he couldn't cut it back at home in Germany. His former wife, Lisa Wilcox, is an American who preferred to stay in Germany to get the best training available. He preferred to stay in the US where he had a better chance of getting 1%ers to finance him. (Interestingly, she made the US team before he did. Although she didn't have a great showing, she also was set back because the major owner of the horse she was riding did not want him to go to the Olympics. He was an active, famous breeding stallion and the owner only reluctantly gave him a break from his other job, which left him less time to prepare and in less than peak condition for competition.)

That Ebeling settled a fraud suit out of court for allegedly drugging one of Romney's horses (Super Hit), a suit from which Ann Romney was dropped, just adds to the evidence that our teams continue to be sub-par, relying on drugging and fraud instead of generations of long term planning and hard work coupled with honest respect and love for the practice of dressage and the horses themselves.

There was a point decades ago when we could have built a good foundation for future dressage teams in this country. Those days are long gone.

[malaise]

34. Nice informative post

[CTyankee]

37. none of the above. I think the Romney's hope it will be seen favorably or at least not being

a problem. But at the rate that campaign is screwing up, I have no confidence that they won't screw this up too.

Trust me. Something to do with this is gonna make the Romneys look bad, very bad...

[GoCubsGo]

39. Why are you referring to this as "Her" Olympic bid?

Ann Romney is not competing, so there is no "her bid". She isn't a participant. She owns a horse that is being ridden by someone else. PERIOD. She will not be winning anything.

[Initech]

46. How are the Romney's not the very elitists they tried to paint Kerry as in 2004?